Sam Storms Feels Mark Dever is Confusing on the Lord's Supper

In the comments section of Sam Storms’ contribution to the baptism debate is a comment that is too good to leave there. Here is what the commentator said:Adrian,I think Sam might be misunderstanding Mark's position. He keeps referring to the idea that Mark would deny a [paedobaptist] (visiting his church, maybe even speaking in his pulpit) access to communion. Hence Sam writes:“One more thing should be noted. In his recent post, Dever indicated that he planned on having an Anglican and a Pre … [Read more...]

Wayne Grudem Says Sam Storms is Right About the Lord's Supper

In light of Sam Storms’ contribution to the great baptism debate yesterday, Wayne Grudem has sent me an e-mail which includes an extract from his Systematic Theology which, unlike his perspective on baptism and church membership, has not changed recently.The rest of this article was written by Wayne Grudem and is published with permission:Just for the record, I am already in print agreeing with what Sam Storms says on this question. (And, I would add, in the case of convinced paedobaptists, I w … [Read more...]

Sam Storms, John Piper, and John Bunyan vs. Wayne Grudem, Al Mohler, and Mark Dever

UPDATEIn January 2008, the following post was identified as the 4th all-time most popular post with readers of this blog. The 5th most-read post was "Steve Chalke and the Lost Message of Jesus."The 4th most widely-read post was one in a series of posts that catalogued a major debate about baptism and church membership, and took place online between such theological heavyweights as John Piper, Sam Storms, Wayne Grudem, Lig Duncan, and Mark Dever. The posts listed below were all so popular they … [Read more...]

Baptist and PCA Agreements About Baptism

Justin Taylor has shared a number of statements on which Mark Dever agreed with David Coffin from the PCA about baptism. The following extracts stood out to me (hence the odd numbering), but they are all worth reading. Do any of you, my readers, disagree with any of these?You will note that, for once, I'm standing on the sidelines of this debate, simply pointing out what various people are saying. I should, however, at least say that there are a couple of the statements on Dever's list with … [Read more...]

Lig Duncan Speaks Up for Paedobaptists

Lig has written about his main reasons for believing in paedobaptism. What he hasn't said is whether he thinks he should be allowed to become a member in a baptist church if he wanted to, or whether a baptist would be free to join his church. Here are Lig's arguements for christening babies:-1. God, in both the Old and New Testaments, explicitly makes a promise to believers and to their children (Genesis 17:7; Acts 2:39).2. God, in both the Old and New Testaments, explicitly attaches specific … [Read more...]

The Pipers Respond to Dever in the Baptism Debate

Desiring God has published the following response to Dever's contribution to the Baptism debate John Piper says-On almost every disagreement that Christians have about what should be believed and what should be done, someone is living in "unrepentant sin”—that is, they are not doing what they ought to do and they are not confessing it as sin.... The question is: what do we do with all these Christians who can't agree on what ought to be done and therefore do the wrong things and don’t confess it … [Read more...]

John Bunyan and the Grudem & Dever vs Piper Baptism Debate

John Bunyan has been brought in to butress Piper's posisiton which had suffered from the declaration of Dever for the other side. This remains a very good natured discussion, and demonstrates clearly the ability to be united around the gospel but disagree on secondary issues. Aaron Menikoff of the 9Marks Blog begins his post as follows -Maybe it simply worth noting that there is a long history, first in England, then in the States, of Baptists addressing the question of whether the unbaptized … [Read more...]

Mark Dever Joins the Grudem vs Piper Baptism Debate

I am really enjoying the latest debate on baptism and church membership. My "lite blogging" plan for August has so far prevented me from entering the fray and declaring my own thoughts on it. Mark Dever has now posted briefly about his views. It is great to see some of our theological heroes respectfully disagreeing with each other. It is a model for the rest of us. (HT Alex)Baptism SHOULD be required for church membership: Because Jesus clearly commanded baptism and to disobey this … [Read more...]

Wayne Grudem Replies to John Piper On Baptism

In this "battle" of two of our theological giants, Grudem has struck back, but admits his wife is on Piper's side on this one!I do not see denial of church membership as “virtually the same as excommunication,” nor do any of the Baptist churches known to me. Non-members who are clearly believers in Jesus Christ are welcomed as believers into many aspects of fellowship. They share in the Lord’s Supper together with members (in all but a very few of the most strict Baptist churches). They parti … [Read more...]

John Piper Disagrees With Wayne Grudem Over Baptism Graciously

As a model of how two friends can honestly, robustly, and yet graciously disagree over an issue of importance, see the following post I have re-titled "Wayne, Wayne, Wayne...". Justin Taylor has also linked to this, and there is interesting discussion in his comments section. I somehow suspect we may not have seen the last of this debate since surely Dr. Grudem won't pretend he hasn't read this!Lots of people know that Wayne Grudem and I are the deepest of friends. We love to room together at … [Read more...]


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