Is Being Gay a Sin? | 4 Things to Consider Before You Answer

Is Being Gay a Sin? Patheos BENJAMIN COREY Andy Gill

Is Being Gay a Sin? | 4 Things to Consider Before You Answer: Guest Post from Ben Corey

Please consider that regardless of whether you’re able to fully accept this or not, there are gay Christians.

Like I’ve said before, perhaps your theology on the issue might not ever change or evolve, but please know, these are real people you’re talking about. This isn’t just a “concept” or an inanimate object– these are real live Christian brothers and sisters that deserve every bit of love and empathy as anyone else. Maybe you haven’t counseled the teenager in your church who wants to kill themselves because they’re finally realizing that they’re gay and always have been. Maybe you haven’t had a friend weep in your presence over the fact that they realize they are gay, but also realize they did not chose to be– and that they’ll never be accepted by the tribe. Maybe you haven’t had a chance to serve in church for years on end next to someone who you never realized was in fact, gay the whole time and also unwavering in their love for Jesus and commitment to the church.

These things have happened to me, but I get that maybe you’ve never experienced them. So please, just consider that we are not talking about an “issue” here– we’re talking about real people. People created in the image and likeness of God. People with feelings, passions, hopes, and dreams. When we allow this to simply become an “issue” within modern Christian discourse, we end up dehumanizing the very real people we’re actually referencing.

Please become willing to reexamine what the Bible teaches on homosexuality.

The apostle Paul taught that the church at Berea was “more noble” than other churches because they didn’t blindly believe what he taught, but instead studied the scriptures for an answer. Would you be willing to do what the church at Berea did, and reexamine what is, or may not be, in scripture? Remember- when looking at scripture there are all sorts of things to consider, such as historical context, the original language, etc. While such exegesis is encouraged in many other theological areas (such as women covering their heads) it’s not often encouraged on this issue. I would invite you to reexamine these passages and consider the same factors we consider when interpreting or applying any other part of scripture.

If you’re willing to do this, Matthew Vines has a great new book with does exactly that– God and the Gay Christian– and I would strongly urge you to read it. Matthew is a conservative evangelical who writes from a conservative evangelical perspective, and does an outstanding job at showing that there is a very legitimate, alternate understanding of some of these texts. When considering any issue, it is important to take into account and give an honest ear to all sides of an issue. Rarely has a conservative evangelical done what Vines has done, and I would strongly encourage you to read it, and consider the arguments he makes as you formulate your own opinion on what the Bible does, or does not, teach on the issue.

Even if you don’t agree with Matthew in the end, his book will help you to realize that many people affirm monogamous, same sex marriage without discarding the Bible. I know to some of you that might sound crazy, which is really why you should read the book– from one conservative evangelical to another. I think what Matt has done is huge: at a minimum, he has helped to show there is an alternative biblical understanding which should firmly place this issue into the category of “secondary theology” where Christian charity should leave room for disagreement without declaring who is in, and who is out.

Please consider that we treat our gay brothers and sisters differently than everyone else, and even if you’re right– this behavior is wrong.

Let’s say your theology doesn’t change and that you even turn out to be correct in that homosexuality is a sin. Still, you face a cultural issue that one should find appalling– the fact that we’ve basically forced gay Christians to go out and get their own churches instead of being welcomed at ours.

Greg Boyd shows the absurdity of what we’ve done in his book, Repenting of Religion (one of my favorites– and will provoke you in good ways. Greg once said that he lost 1000 members of his church when he wrote it). In the book, Greg points out that America has an obesity epidemic and that much of the time, the obesity is caused by gluttony (over eating)– which is a sin. Furthermore, we know that over-eating is also greed (taking more than what you need), which the Bible calls idol worship (Col 3:5, Eph 5:5). Boyd’s question then becomes (as does mine): if we make gay Christians go out and get their own churches, why are we not forcing people who are obese due to over eating to go out and get their own churches as well? Obviously, we’d never dream of such a thing– the sin of over eating is culturally acceptable, so we ignore the teachings of scripture on it most of the time. On a more practical level, as Boyd points out, we know the reasons why a person may over eat are complex, personal, and unknown to us– which means that only God can judge them, since God is the only one who understands the whole picture.

Therefore, even if homosexuality is a sin, following this line of thinking, we should be using the same standard that we use with people who are obese from over eating: love them, include them, and refrain from judging them. The fact that we have created an entire, separate way of viewing and treating our gay brothers and sisters, is nothing short of corporate sin.

We’d rarely- if ever- treat these people the way LGBTQ people get treated, and that should be a deeply concerning realization. The fact that one group, and only one group, has been effectively marginalized from the church (you know, that thing that’s supposed to represent Jesus here on earth) should cause us tremendous sorrow.

Please consider that even if you’re right, it shouldn’t dramatically change the praxis of your faith.

Tuesday I was with my friend and fellow author, Frank Schaeffer and he was telling me a story about his parents. They were theologically conservative on the issue of homosexuality, but as Frank describes, were “glorious hypocrites” because they were so loving to their gay friends in their day to day living. Ultimately, I think the correctness of a theological opinion is somewhat irrelevant in comparison to personal behavior– a truth Jesus taught in Matthew 25. Consider all sides and still think it’s a sin? Have at it– but please consider being a glorious hypocrite on the issue, as we are on so many others, by choosing radical love for other people instead of planting your flag in the rightness of correct belief.

Even I have publicly admitted that I still struggle with the entire theology around this– struggling with theology is okay. However, as I have also stated publicly, wherever I land will be irrelevant to the praxis of my faith, just as it was for Frank’s parents. I will still radically love people. I will still radically include people. I will still invite everyone to join me in following Jesus… and I will still refrain from judgement, because I’m not God and I don’t have all of the information to make righteous judgements about others.

There’s no reason why this issue should change the praxis of your faith, either. We’re all just trying to follow Jesus, and we should be so focused on our own issues that we lack the time to focus on the perceived issues of others.

Please consider that the cultural obsession with homosexuality within the American Church is detracting from the things Jesus asked us to do.

Later today I’ll be releasing an interview I shot Tuesday with Frank Schaeffer regarding his new book, Why I’m An Atheist Who Believes In God. In the book, he writes that “Jesus was a traitor to the culture wars of his day”, because the message Jesus came to bring didn’t line up with the battles the current culture wanted to fight. The same is true today– it is American Christian culture who has placed this issue at the front and center and convinced much of the culture that this is “the” war worth fighting. Meanwhile, in the past two years I’ve met with rescued slaves in India, orphans in Africa, seen kids in third world countries drink water that could easily kill them, and watched the homeless trot off into the streets during a New England blizzard. There are real, pressing issues we could devote our time to– but the whole anti-gay battle? That’s a distraction from the real issues facing our world– issues we can actually impact if we don’t get caught up into fabricated culture wars. So, please consider being like Jesus– be a traitor to the culture wars of today, and focus on the issues that really matter.

///

As I said, I believe this to be an issue that should be kept to secondary theology that still allows for Christian unity and that regardless of where our theology lands, it should not impact the praxis of our faith. I understand this is a hard issue for many of you to wrestle with, and this post isn’t one where I’m trying to provoke you or get in your face– I just humbly ask, that you please consider these few things… and see what might change within your own heart.

[Ben Corey’s book “Undiluted: Rediscovering the Radical Message of Jesus” is out and available for purchase over on amazon! You can order it here!]

 

What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • http://www.janaleemiller.com/ Jana @ One Design a Day

    I just read Frank’s new book. I really liked it. He always makes me think about what I believe.

  • http://www.janaleemiller.com/ Jana @ One Design a Day

    I just read Frank’s new book. I really liked it. He always makes me think about what I believe.

  • Andy

    So with the other laundry list of sins the author includes, as well as homosexuality, as Greg Boyd also believes homosexuality is a sin although I’m not sure why the author didn’t include Boyd’s comments, what’s the answer? celebration, repentance or acceptance? What does the bible tell us to do? Celebrate your sin! No. Accept your sin because that’s the way God made you! No. Repent of your sin? Yes.

  • Andy

    So with the other laundry list of sins the author includes, as well as homosexuality, as Greg Boyd also believes homosexuality is a sin although I’m not sure why the author didn’t include Boyd’s comments, what’s the answer? celebration, repentance or acceptance? What does the bible tell us to do? Celebrate your sin! No. Accept your sin because that’s the way God made you! No. Repent of your sin? Yes.

  • John Mcmaster

    Always remember it’s Gods plan and not your idealism that counts. Gay is a valid emotional connection between two of Gods creations. If you question His wisdom; take it up with Him when you stand before Him. In the mean time:

    James 2:3

    And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; :)

    Matthew 7:1-3 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

    3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

    We can all find ways to condemn if we dig deep enough, but if you seek only to condemn and not to lift and edify, then how can any of us find peace. I doubt that we will sit around in the here and after comparing sins; and Woe betide if we get into that nonsense.

  • Wayne

    completely stupid!

  • John Mcmaster

    Always remember it’s Gods plan and not your idealism that counts. Gay is a valid emotional connection between two of Gods creations. If you question His wisdom; take it up with Him when you stand before Him. In the mean time:

    James 2:3

    And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; :)

    Matthew 7:1-3 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

    3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

    We can all find ways to condemn if we dig deep enough, but if you seek only to condemn and not to lift and edify, then how can any of us find peace. I doubt that we will sit around in the here and after comparing sins; and Woe betide if we get into that nonsense.

  • Wayne

    completely stupid!

  • Alan Chambers

    Great post, Benjamin. I could have tweeted a hundred things you said. I guess I might need to read your book. :-)

  • Alan Chambers

    Great post, Benjamin. I could have tweeted a hundred things you said. I guess I might need to read your book. :-)

  • Dennis Michael

    Regarding Matthew Vines’s book, here’s a review that pretty much hits the entire gay christian apology ~ https://medium.com/p/8cf06684bc46

  • Wayne Bowerman

    That is one of the worst reviews I have ever read. If you can’t redirect desires “there is no true Christian faith or discipleship” wow. And News flash, every biblical writer wrote from a starting point of their personal experience with God. Anyone who claims that personal context can some last on a list for an interpretive grid is being willfully ignorant of the world we live in and of their own personal make up.

    Gay christian apology, huh? What I want to know is why anti-gay apologists like you troll blogs like this one spreading your message of hate, fear and anxiety in the name of Jesus.

  • Dennis Michael

    Your response confirms the analysis in this review of the mindset of defenders of homosexuality in the church. This is an emotional reaction with nothing of real substance to bring to the debate – much like Vines’s book. This is one of the worst reviews for you because it does not support your opinions on the issue.

    The biblical writers certainly wrote from their personal experiences with God, but those experiences were founded first of all on objective truth, which included repentance from sin and trust in the saving mercy of God. They were not speaking from a context of existential autonomy (like Matthew Vines is), but from experience conformed to God’s requirements. ‘Personal context’ is always trumped by divine revelation, which will always be first on a proper ‘interpretive grid.’ This means that ‘personal makeup’ will have to be brought into conformity with the revealed will of God wherever it is not so conformed. Failure to understand this is a fundamental flaw in Matthew Vines’s entire outlook on the Christian faith and ethic.

    Your last sentence doesn’t deserve a response. It’s a typical pro-homosex statement that uses emotion to avoid real engagement with the issue.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    There are other reviews around. How about this series – http://sharperiron.org/tag/series-vines-ggc

  • Dennis Michael

    Regarding Matthew Vines’s book, here’s a review that pretty much hits the entire gay christian apology ~ https://medium.com/p/8cf06684bc46

  • Wayne Bowerman

    That is one of the worst reviews I have ever read. If you can’t redirect desires “there is no true Christian faith or discipleship” wow. And News flash, every biblical writer wrote from a starting point of their personal experience with God. Anyone who claims that personal context can some last on a list for an interpretive grid is being willfully ignorant of the world we live in and of their own personal make up.

    Gay christian apology, huh? What I want to know is why anti-gay apologists like you troll blogs like this one spreading your message of hate, fear and anxiety in the name of Jesus.

  • Dennis Michael

    Your response confirms the analysis in this review of the mindset of defenders of homosexuality in the church. This is an emotional reaction with nothing of real substance to bring to the debate – much like Vines’s book. This is one of the worst reviews for you because it does not support your opinions on the issue.

    The biblical writers certainly wrote from their personal experiences with God, but those experiences were founded first of all on objective truth, which included repentance from sin and trust in the saving mercy of God. They were not speaking from a context of existential autonomy (like Matthew Vines is), but from experience conformed to God’s requirements. ‘Personal context’ is always trumped by divine revelation, which will always be first on a proper ‘interpretive grid.’ This means that ‘personal makeup’ will have to be brought into conformity with the revealed will of God wherever it is not so conformed. Failure to understand this is a fundamental flaw in Matthew Vines’s entire outlook on the Christian faith and ethic.

    Your last sentence doesn’t deserve a response. It’s a typical pro-homosex statement that uses emotion to avoid real engagement with the issue.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    There are other reviews around. How about this series – http://sharperiron.org/tag/series-vines-ggc

  • Paul Kinney

    Ben you did it again! wrote an amazing post ! thank you

  • Paul Kinney

    Ben you did it again! wrote an amazing post ! thank you

  • Felipe Jones

    “Is being gay a sin”

    Of course it is. Or at least continuing in it without beginning the process by acknowledging it as sin, repenting of it and turning away from it.

    But the title of the article was worded specifically to engender emotional appeal.

    “They were theologically conservative on the issue of homosexuality, but as Frank describes, were “glorious hypocrites” because they were so loving to their gay friends in their day to day living.”

    How did this make Frank’s parents hypocrites? Were they practicing homosexuals secretly while proclaiming it as wrong publicly? No I assume they weren’t. Jesus as we know “loved” the sinner and there are numerous examples of it. But He never compromised the Father’s truth and denounced the sin whenever He came across it.

    Now there are Christians in the world today who are truly suffering right now for their faith in our Lord – in North Korea, N Iraq, Syria, China, Somalia, Nigeria etc. and we sit over here and whine like babies. If a homosexual wants a partner then let he or she get married to someone of the opposite sex.

    The homosexual lifestyle has always been incredibly promiscuous. Always.

    M. Vines arguments are specious and entirely bogus just as they were 20 or so years ago when I first heard them.

  • housebeatz

    I guess you don’t get out much, watch TV, movies, notice magazines in the supermarket isle. Homosexual lifestyle is no more promiscuous than than a heterosexual. 50% of marriages end in divorce with most due to adultery. There is no respect for marriage in America. Millions of children are abused every day in heterosexual households. You say “If a homosexual wants a partner then let he or she get married to someone of the opposite sex” seriously? it shows you have no concept of what it means for someone to be born gay. To walk in their shoes. Think about how you feel about being with someone of the same sex, well thats exactly how a gay person feels with someone of the opposite sex. And its not just sex, its emotional. One thing I do agree with in you post, Christians whine and complain about everything in America. They have no idea what it means to suffer for their beliefs. What is happening in Nigeria and Somalia is horrific.

  • Felipe Jones

    Well I get out some and watch too much TV and Hollywood movies which rarely fail to disappoint with gratuitous sex and lame endings.

    Regardless of the sad state of affairs in heterosexual marriages including Christian marriages, it doesn’t change the fact that homosexual unions are a sin.Heterosexuality is God’s plan and is not a sin of course however it came with rules attached. Homosexuality is always a sin. Always.

    Nowhere in scripture is it spoken of other than in negative terms. There are no homosexual biblical characters that can be referred to as shining examples of faith. King David failed miserably in this area, was forgiven, but suffered consequences.

    Jesus never spoke of it because it wasn’t necessary. No one in 1st century Jewish Palestine would have thought of it as anything other than sinful. When He referred back to Creation when asked about divorce, He didn’t say one man and one woman or man united together forever (or vice versa). He left no ambiguity.

    Apparently not all homosexuals are that repulsed to have sex with the opposite sex. There are numerous examples of men that got married and had children before “coming out” later. Most recently, Robert DeNiro’s father.

    While I appreciate your agreeing with me on the real suffering of Christians around the world, I suppose. I was primarily referring to homosexuals whining about their problems within the Christian faith. Jesus tells us it will be a tough and difficult walk but we don’t get to change the law.

  • Felipe Jones

    “Is being gay a sin”

    Of course it is. Or at least continuing in it without beginning the process by acknowledging it as sin, repenting of it and turning away from it.

    But the title of the article was worded specifically to engender emotional appeal.

    “They were theologically conservative on the issue of homosexuality, but as Frank describes, were “glorious hypocrites” because they were so loving to their gay friends in their day to day living.”

    How did this make Frank’s parents hypocrites? Were they practicing homosexuals secretly while proclaiming it as wrong publicly? No I assume they weren’t. Jesus as we know “loved” the sinner and there are numerous examples of it. But He never compromised the Father’s truth and denounced the sin whenever He came across it.

    Now there are Christians in the world today who are truly suffering right now for their faith in our Lord – in North Korea, N Iraq, Syria, China, Somalia, Nigeria etc. and we sit over here and whine like babies. If a homosexual wants a partner then let he or she get married to someone of the opposite sex.

    The homosexual lifestyle has always been incredibly promiscuous. Always.

    M. Vines arguments are specious and entirely bogus just as they were 20 or so years ago when I first heard them.

  • housebeatz

    I guess you don’t get out much, watch TV, movies, notice magazines in the supermarket isle. Homosexual lifestyle is no more promiscuous than than a heterosexual. 50% of marriages end in divorce with most due to adultery. There is no respect for marriage in America. Millions of children are abused every day in heterosexual households. You say “If a homosexual wants a partner then let he or she get married to someone of the opposite sex” seriously? it shows you have no concept of what it means for someone to be born gay. To walk in their shoes. Think about how you feel about being with someone of the same sex, well thats exactly how a gay person feels with someone of the opposite sex. And its not just sex, its emotional. One thing I do agree with in you post, Christians whine and complain about everything in America. They have no idea what it means to suffer for their beliefs. What is happening in Nigeria and Somalia is horrific.

  • Felipe Jones

    Well I get out some and watch too much TV and Hollywood movies which rarely fail to disappoint with gratuitous sex and lame endings.

    Regardless of the sad state of affairs in heterosexual marriages including Christian marriages, it doesn’t change the fact that homosexual unions are a sin.Heterosexuality is God’s plan and is not a sin of course however it came with rules attached. Homosexuality is always a sin. Always.

    Nowhere in scripture is it spoken of other than in negative terms. There are no homosexual biblical characters that can be referred to as shining examples of faith. King David failed miserably in this area, was forgiven, but suffered consequences.

    Jesus never spoke of it because it wasn’t necessary. No one in 1st century Jewish Palestine would have thought of it as anything other than sinful. When He referred back to Creation when asked about divorce, He didn’t say one man and one woman or man united together forever (or vice versa). He left no ambiguity.

    Apparently not all homosexuals are that repulsed to have sex with the opposite sex. There are numerous examples of men that got married and had children before “coming out” later. Most recently, Robert DeNiro’s father.

    While I appreciate your agreeing with me on the real suffering of Christians around the world, I suppose. I was primarily referring to homosexuals whining about their problems within the Christian faith. Jesus tells us it will be a tough and difficult walk but we don’t get to change the law.

  • truthslinger

    You don’t ever have to get to the topic of gay sex to find that its wrong. You simply have to look at marriage. In every mention of marriage in the Bible its man and woman, husband and wife. All sex outside of marriage is a sin. So therefore, since man is not supposed to marry man, or woman with woman, Acting upon homosexual urges are the same as anyone who acts upon heterosexual urges before marriage. A sin is a sin. I can totally understand so many people trying to find wiggle room for this because every sinner tries to do it for their own vices, myself included. Society may change laws to meet the times and culture. But God is everlasting yet unchanging. And his concept of sex and marriage is pretty clear.

  • truthslinger

    You don’t ever have to get to the topic of gay sex to find that its wrong. You simply have to look at marriage. In every mention of marriage in the Bible its man and woman, husband and wife. All sex outside of marriage is a sin. So therefore, since man is not supposed to marry man, or woman with woman, Acting upon homosexual urges are the same as anyone who acts upon heterosexual urges before marriage. A sin is a sin. I can totally understand so many people trying to find wiggle room for this because every sinner tries to do it for their own vices, myself included. Society may change laws to meet the times and culture. But God is everlasting yet unchanging. And his concept of sex and marriage is pretty clear.

  • A.j. Beck

    Loved this post! While I do believe what the Bible has to say on this subject, I also realize my job is to love all people and treat them with respect and point them towards Jesus. Saving them is his business, not mine. And I also agree, that there are more

  • A.j. Beck

    Loved this post! While I do believe what the Bible has to say on this subject, I also realize my job is to love all people and treat them with respect and point them towards Jesus. Saving them is his business, not mine. And I also agree, that there are more

  • chrisozman

    The difference between average sinners and gays is that gays identify BY their sin, CELEBRATE their sin and try to PROMOTE their sin to others. Their own Church? Can you imagine a Church for murderers who are still actively murdering and not repenting, a Church for thieves who are still actively thieving and not repenting, a Church for Adulterers who are still actively committing adultery and not repenting. Humans are wonderful at stringing lots of words together to make arguments that seem to justify their behavior, but that doesn’t make it true. Remember,”The woman did make me eat it”. Please tell me the difference between the above imaginary churches and a “gay church”. Jesus didn’t tell just tell the Adulteress to “go”, he told her to “go…and sin no more”

  • Christian for Gay rights

    How many gays have you actually met and talk to. Majority of them, in fact almost all the ones I know have told me that if they could chose they would chose to be straight. A lot of them wish they could be ‘normal’ because they know the kind of hate and prejudice that they are forced to live with. All for being who they are. A true christian understands that it’s not about religion but about relationship. Your own personal relationship, so if a gay guy has a relationship with the Lord it’s their own fucking relationship not anyone else’s. Nobody has the right to interfere with somebody else’s personal relationship with God. God will forgive you for anything when you have a personal relationship with him, but it’s solely between you and him. How do you know God didn’t create gay’s as a way to test us huh? How do you know he didn’t create them in his own imaged to test our acceptance and love for one another. It seems to me that right now God is looking down on us shaking his head in disgust wondering why we can’t be compassionate to our fellow man. All God wants us to do is love each and accept each other for who we are.

    If anybody actually wants to know what gay’s go through watch the short film called Love is all you need on youtube

  • Wayne

    More gay rhetoric and nothing else! Any time a man lays down and allow another man to sodomize him and rip his anus apart, he is making a CHOICE!

  • Darach Conneely

    Even if homosexuality is a sin, which the NT doesn’t teach, the nearest parallel to a same sex marriage isn’t murder, theft or adultery which continue to hurt and damage people, but divorce and remarriage. In God’s eyes marriage is for life, God hates divorce. Malachi 2:16, and Jesus condemned divorce again and again, while he never mentioned homosexuality. Yet even though most churches recognise that marriage is meant to be for life, churches remarry divorcees, and those that don’t welcome and accept remarried divorcees, and do not insist the remarried divorcees separate. It is hypocritical for church to reject and condemn same sex couples if they (quite rightly) welcome and accept remarried divorcees.

  • Shadow

    In Gods eyes sin is sin. While I think gay men and women deserve to be treated equally and respected, the bible calls homosexuality an abomination, very strong word for something that “doesn’t matter”don’t you think?

  • Darach Conneely

    The word abomination applied to ham sandwiches too Deut 14:3. We are not under the OT law, we are under the Royal Law “love your neighbor as yourself” James 2:8. That doesn’t mean “its all right as long as you are in love”, love in the bible is much more than romantic infatuation, it is a self sacrificial commitment. But that is the sort of love a same sex couple when they commit themselves to each other for life in marriage, just as it is for a heterosexual couple. Gal 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “you shall love you neighbour as yourself”. Jesus said the same thing Matt 22:39. How can a faithful and loving same sex married couple be ‘an abomination’ when they are fulfilling the whole law?

  • Wayne

    Jesus only affirmed Heterosexual relationships! I don’t care how “loving and committed” gay men so-called relationship is, they are on their way to the Lake of Fire unless they repent of their rebellion and perversion. There is simply no wiggle room!

  • Darach Conneely

    Jesus told his disciples Matt 25:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations… 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” He did not say anything about making up laws against anything Jesus didn’t affirm. If he had we would only be allowed travel on foot, by donkey or by boat. In fact Jesus took a dim view of people making up their own laws binding heavy burdens on people’s backs.

  • Wayne

    Completely stupid and nonsensical! Jesus ONLY affirmed heterosexuality and heterosexual marriage:

    “And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” (Matthew 19:4-6)

    Is there anything in this text that you do not understand?

  • Darach Conneely

    Is there anything in this text that you do not understand?
    What I don’t understand is why you are taking what Jesus taught on divorce and trying to turn it into a lesson on homosexuality. You simply repeated your point without addressing my reply.

  • sherpa_dad

    LG, …BT, …Q, …PBP+++ = sexual immorality which is clearly identified as sinful behavior by Paul, Jesus’ Apostle, in the NT.

  • Darach Conneely

    Heterosexual sex is immoral too if people aren’t married. What you need to show from scripture is that sex within a faithful committed homosexual relationship is immoral.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    Leviticus 18 and Romans 1 portray homosexual sex as immoral irrespective of the marital status of those engaging it in. Therefore homosexual sex within a “faithful committed homosexual relationship” is immoral.

  • cdl123

    Either your Homosexual your self and trying to justify your choices of you have never read the scriptures. Do you only accept the New Testament? And if so is that a choice to again justify your beliefs? Both books are the word of God and I suggest you read them.
    Homosexuality is the act of intercourse
    between people of the same sex. When the Bible speaks of homosexuality, its
    emphasis is on behavior, not condition. God loves sinners, but condemns sin. And the Bible’s verdict on homosexual
    behavior, as with all sexual immorality, is that it is sinful. This extensive
    collection of Scriptures is provided as an aid for those who wish to study what
    the Bible says about homosexuality.

    Bible
    Verses About Homosexuality

    Genesis 19:1-11

    That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of
    Sodom. Lot was sitting there, and when he saw them,
    he stood up to meet them. Then he welcomed them and bowed with his face to the
    ground. “My lords,” he said, “come to my home to wash your feet,
    and be my guests for the night. You may then get up early in the morning and be
    on your way again.” “Oh no,” they replied. “We’ll just
    spend the night out here in the city square.” But Lot insisted, so at last
    they went home with him. Lot prepared a feast for them, complete with fresh
    bread made without yeast, and they ate. But before they retired for the night,
    all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded
    the house. They shouted to Lot, “Where are the men who came to spend the
    night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!”

    So Lot stepped outside to talk to them,
    shutting the door behind him. “Please, my brothers,” he begged,
    “don’t do such a wicked thing. Look, I have two virgin daughters. Let me
    bring them out to you, and you can do with them as you wish. But please, leave
    these men alone, for they are my guests and are under my protection.”

    “Stand back!” they shouted.
    “This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he’s acting like our
    judge! We’ll treat you far worse than those other men!” And they lunged
    toward Lot to break down the door. But the two angels reached out, pulled Lot
    into the house, and bolted the door. Then they blinded all the men, young and
    old, who were at the door of the house, so they gave up trying to get inside. (NLT)

    Leviticus 18:22

    “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a
    woman. It is a detestable sin.” (NLT)

    Leviticus 20:13

    “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a
    woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death,
    for they are guilty of a capital offense.” (NLT)

    1 Kings 14:24

    And there were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to
    all the abominations of the nations that the LORD drove out before the people
    of Israel. (ESV)

    1 Kings 15:12

    He put away the male cult prostitutes out of the land and removed all the idols
    that his fathers had made. (ESV)

    2 Kings 23:7

    He also tore down the living quarters of the male and female shrine prostitutes
    that were inside the Temple of the LORD, where the women wove coverings for the
    Asherah pole. (NLT)

    Romans 1:18-32

    But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who
    suppress the truth by their wickedness…. Yes, they knew God, but they
    wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up
    foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and
    confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of
    worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look
    like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

    So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful
    things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things
    with each other’s bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they
    worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who
    is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.

    That is why God abandoned them to their
    shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and
    instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal
    sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful
    things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within
    themselves the penalty they deserved.

    Since they thought it foolish to
    acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do
    things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of
    wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious
    behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud,
    and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents.
    They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no
    mercy. They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve
    to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them,
    too. (NLT)

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11

    Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God?
    Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols,
    or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are
    thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none
    of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But
    you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling
    on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)

    1 Timothy 1:8-10

    Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this,
    that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient,
    for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike
    their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who
    practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is
    contrary to sound doctrine … (ESV)
    There is more. But this will suffice.

  • Darach Conneely

    No, I am a happily married heterosexual, but I am also a Christian who has always held up tradition to the light of scripture “to see if these things were so” Acts 17:11

    Bible Verses About Homosexuality Genesis 19:1-11
    So you think the problem was the men of Sodom thought the visitors were male when they demanded to have sex with them, rather than the fact that they wanted to rape visitors to the city?

    Leviticus 18 & 20
    I have already pointed out that as Christians we are no longer under the Levitical law, and the word detestable or abomination also applied to ham sandwiches.

    1 & 2Kings
    Refers to male prostitutes at pagan shrines, which is (a) selling sex for money and (b) idolatry. But if male shrine prostitution means every form of homosexuality is wrong, wouldn’t female shrine prostitutes mean all heterosexual sex is wrong?

    Romans 1
    This is talking about heterosexuals whose idolatrous worship goes from ritual sex (probably with female temple prostitutes) to indulging in homosexual acts against their heterosexual nature, again in the context of classical ritual prostitution, lured further into debauchery by male prostitutes also touting for business there. While Greek and Romans recognised that there were people who were homosexual by nature as well as those who were heterosexual, Paul only addresses heterosexuals indulging in homosexual acts here, not homosexuals.

    1Corinthians 6:9-11 & 1Timothy 1:8-10
    I have addressed the word used in 1Cor in my previous post. 1Tim uses the same word arsenokoites, which does not refer to all forms of homosexuality just one particular abusive form.

  • cdl123

    Just another individual attempting to reinterpret what God intended. To be a Christian is how one lives Gods word and treats others, but that does not mean accepting sin as okay so you don’t have to confront others in society. A Christian treats others that disagrees with their beliefs with respect and human dignity, without accepting their sin. Love the sinner not the sin. And that is what this is all about. Please stop reinterpreting Gods word by cherry picking statements to fit societies secular beliefs.

  • Darach Conneely

    I agree we need to treat others with dignity and respect, even if we disagree with them and think their behaviour is sin. However if you are going to claim they are living in sin, you need to pretty sure you are confronting them based on what the word of God says, not just human traditions and human interpretations of scripture. The traditions of men need to be reinterpreted. We need to examine the Scriptures…to see if these things are so Acts 17:11.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    And when we examine standard English translations of the Scriptures, we see that they portray homosexual relations as being sinful.

  • Wayne

    Homosexuality is a sin and the consequences of such a sin is unquestionably in the Scriptures:

    “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” ( 1 Cor. 6:9-10)

    So if homosexuality is not a sin, then please exegete this text and tell us why are they included with the other immoral people that will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven?

  • Darach Conneely

    The word translated homosexuals, malakos, literally means soft Matt 11:8 “What then did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses.” It can refer to people devoting themselves to a life of luxury, or to those who are cowardly, morally weak and lacking in self control. Other suggestions are that is was associated with male prostitution or catamites. The word translated sodomites, arsenokoites, is very difficult to translate. It does seem to have something to do with homosexuality, but where we see a context for its usage it is one of violence, coercion or financial exploitation. The suggestion Paul is using the words for active and passive homosexual partners ignores the fact that this passage is a vice list, with no suggestion in the wording that malakos and arsenokoites are any more paired than covetous and drunkards, or reviler and extortioners. Paul may have referred to specific types of homosexual practice in arsenokoites and possibly malakos, but the terms are not a blanket condemnation of all forms of homosexuality.

  • Wayne

    Nice try, but your conclusions are wrong! Both words deals with men, especially “Arsenokoites”, having sex with other men. Contextually, Paul knew exactly what he was saying and communicating. The bottom line is what you’ve written is nothing more than typical gay revisionist rhetoric. There is no wiggle room my friend, and you and any other homosexual must repent of your perversion or risk eternal judgment. I would advise that you stop trying to justify, excuse, rationalize, and reason your way through this matter, and begin to seek the Lord for healing and deliverance. Homosexuality is and always will be as the Bible describes it: “unnatural, against nature, vile affection, shameful, an error, an abomination, and it has a penalty: The Judgment of God”. Remember these words from Jesus and take them to heart:

    “Whomever The Son Sets Free Is Free Indeed!”

  • Darach Conneely

    We know arsenokoites has something to do with having men sex with other men, but we don’t know that it was a general term that covered all forms of homosexual activity, which is what you need to claim Paul was saying all forms of homosexuality were wrong. In fact the contexts we find it in suggest it referred to homosexual sex in the context of violence, exploitation or robbery. That is hardly a description of same sex marriage. Now Paul as you say, knew exactly what it meant, as did his readers. But we don’t. The meaning of the word has been lost. You can’t bind people up with laws they cannot bear, based on obscure words we don’t understand.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    Youre exaggerating. Bible dictionaries etc reveal that translators are reasonably confident they know the meanings of those words.

  • me

    The fact that Jesus did not mention Homosexuality is true. But he didn’t call sexual trafficking a sin either. Jesus did not even need to list homosexuality as sin. His audience knew of Sodom. They knew his stance on this issue. Go and Sin no more. This said, I appreciate your concern for the truth about divorce and remarriage – way too much of it is accepted- there are clear reasons scripturally that support divorce for adultery and in this case only the injured party should be free to remarry. Unfortunately our churches are failing here as well. We need to get back to truth.

  • Darach Conneely

    Actually Jews of Jesus time thought the sin of Sodom was inhospitality, arrogance over their wealth leaded to gross injustice and hatred of everyone else (Josephus Sirach 16:8). Philo of Alexandria was probably the first to connect it with homosexuality. We cannot build arguments for or against homosexuality based on what Jesus did not say. It is arguing from silence which is a fallacy.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    You know that Philo of Alexandria was a part of the Jewish culture of the “Jews of Jesus time”, right?

    And you know that the claim that “Philo of Alexandria was probably the first to connect it with homosexuality” is to some degree an argument from the silence of others, right?

  • chrisozman

    The difference between average sinners and gays is that gays identify BY their sin, CELEBRATE their sin and try to PROMOTE their sin to others. Their own Church? Can you imagine a Church for murderers who are still actively murdering and not repenting, a Church for thieves who are still actively thieving and not repenting, a Church for Adulterers who are still actively committing adultery and not repenting. Humans are wonderful at stringing lots of words together to make arguments that seem to justify their behavior, but that doesn’t make it true. Remember,”The woman did make me eat it”. Please tell me the difference between the above imaginary churches and a “gay church”. Jesus didn’t tell just tell the Adulteress to “go”, he told her to “go…and sin no more”

  • Christian for Gay rights

    How many gays have you actually met and talk to. Majority of them, in fact almost all the ones I know have told me that if they could chose they would chose to be straight. A lot of them wish they could be ‘normal’ because they know the kind of hate and prejudice that they are forced to live with. All for being who they are. A true christian understands that it’s not about religion but about relationship. Your own personal relationship, so if a gay guy has a relationship with the Lord it’s their own fucking relationship not anyone else’s. Nobody has the right to interfere with somebody else’s personal relationship with God. God will forgive you for anything when you have a personal relationship with him, but it’s solely between you and him. How do you know God didn’t create gay’s as a way to test us huh? How do you know he didn’t create them in his own imaged to test our acceptance and love for one another. It seems to me that right now God is looking down on us shaking his head in disgust wondering why we can’t be compassionate to our fellow man. All God wants us to do is love each and accept each other for who we are.

    If anybody actually wants to know what gay’s go through watch the short film called Love is all you need on youtube

  • Wayne

    More gay rhetoric and nothing else! Any time a man lays down and allow another man to sodomize him and rip his anus apart, he is making a CHOICE!

  • Darach Conneely

    Even if homosexuality is a sin, which the NT doesn’t teach, the nearest parallel to a same sex marriage isn’t murder, theft or adultery which continue to hurt and damage people, but divorce and remarriage. In God’s eyes marriage is for life, God hates divorce. Malachi 2:16, and Jesus condemned divorce again and again, while he never mentioned homosexuality. Yet even though most churches recognise that marriage is meant to be for life, churches remarry divorcees, and those that don’t welcome and accept remarried divorcees, and do not insist the remarried divorcees separate. It is hypocritical for church to reject and condemn same sex couples if they (quite rightly) welcome and accept remarried divorcees.

  • Shadow

    In Gods eyes sin is sin. While I think gay men and women deserve to be treated equally and respected, the bible calls homosexuality an abomination, very strong word for something that “doesn’t matter”don’t you think?

  • Darach Conneely

    The word abomination applied to ham sandwiches too Deut 14:3. We are not under the OT law, we are under the Royal Law “love your neighbor as yourself” James 2:8. That doesn’t mean “its all right as long as you are in love”, love in the bible is much more than romantic infatuation, it is a self sacrificial commitment. But that is the sort of love a same sex couple when they commit themselves to each other for life in marriage, just as it is for a heterosexual couple. Gal 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “you shall love you neighbour as yourself”. Jesus said the same thing Matt 22:39. How can a faithful and loving same sex married couple be ‘an abomination’ when they are fulfilling the whole law?

  • Wayne

    Jesus only affirmed Heterosexual relationships! I don’t care how “loving and committed” gay men so-called relationship is, they are on their way to the Lake of Fire unless they repent of their rebellion and perversion. There is simply no wiggle room!

  • Darach Conneely

    Jesus told his disciples Matt 25:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations… 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” He did not say anything about making up laws against anything Jesus didn’t affirm. If he had we would only be allowed travel on foot, by donkey or by boat. In fact Jesus took a dim view of people making up their own laws binding heavy burdens on people’s backs.

  • Wayne

    Completely stupid and nonsensical! Jesus ONLY affirmed heterosexuality and heterosexual marriage:

    “And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” (Matthew 19:4-6)

    Is there anything in this text that you do not understand?

  • Darach Conneely

    Is there anything in this text that you do not understand?
    What I don’t understand is why you are taking what Jesus taught on divorce and trying to turn it into a lesson on homosexuality. You simply repeated your point without addressing my reply.

  • sherpa_dad

    LG, …BT, …Q, …PBP+++ = sexual immorality which is clearly identified as sinful behavior by Paul, Jesus’ Apostle, in the NT.

  • Darach Conneely

    Heterosexual sex is immoral too if people aren’t married. What you need to show from scripture is that sex within a faithful committed homosexual relationship is immoral.

  • cdl123

    Either your Homosexual your self and trying to justify your choices of you have never read the scriptures. Do you only accept the New Testament? And if so is that a choice to again justify your beliefs? Both books are the word of God and I suggest you read them.
    Homosexuality is the act of intercourse
    between people of the same sex. When the Bible speaks of homosexuality, its
    emphasis is on behavior, not condition. God loves sinners, but condemns sin. And the Bible’s verdict on homosexual
    behavior, as with all sexual immorality, is that it is sinful. This extensive
    collection of Scriptures is provided as an aid for those who wish to study what
    the Bible says about homosexuality.

    Bible
    Verses About Homosexuality

    Genesis 19:1-11

    That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of
    Sodom. Lot was sitting there, and when he saw them,
    he stood up to meet them. Then he welcomed them and bowed with his face to the
    ground. “My lords,” he said, “come to my home to wash your feet,
    and be my guests for the night. You may then get up early in the morning and be
    on your way again.” “Oh no,” they replied. “We’ll just
    spend the night out here in the city square.” But Lot insisted, so at last
    they went home with him. Lot prepared a feast for them, complete with fresh
    bread made without yeast, and they ate. But before they retired for the night,
    all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded
    the house. They shouted to Lot, “Where are the men who came to spend the
    night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!”

    So Lot stepped outside to talk to them,
    shutting the door behind him. “Please, my brothers,” he begged,
    “don’t do such a wicked thing. Look, I have two virgin daughters. Let me
    bring them out to you, and you can do with them as you wish. But please, leave
    these men alone, for they are my guests and are under my protection.”

    “Stand back!” they shouted.
    “This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he’s acting like our
    judge! We’ll treat you far worse than those other men!” And they lunged
    toward Lot to break down the door. But the two angels reached out, pulled Lot
    into the house, and bolted the door. Then they blinded all the men, young and
    old, who were at the door of the house, so they gave up trying to get inside. (NLT)

    Leviticus 18:22

    “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a
    woman. It is a detestable sin.” (NLT)

    Leviticus 20:13

    “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a
    woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death,
    for they are guilty of a capital offense.” (NLT)

    1 Kings 14:24

    And there were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to
    all the abominations of the nations that the LORD drove out before the people
    of Israel. (ESV)

    1 Kings 15:12

    He put away the male cult prostitutes out of the land and removed all the idols
    that his fathers had made. (ESV)

    2 Kings 23:7

    He also tore down the living quarters of the male and female shrine prostitutes
    that were inside the Temple of the LORD, where the women wove coverings for the
    Asherah pole. (NLT)

    Romans 1:18-32

    But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who
    suppress the truth by their wickedness…. Yes, they knew God, but they
    wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up
    foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and
    confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of
    worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look
    like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

    So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful
    things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things
    with each other’s bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they
    worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who
    is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.

    That is why God abandoned them to their
    shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and
    instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal
    sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful
    things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within
    themselves the penalty they deserved.

    Since they thought it foolish to
    acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do
    things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of
    wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious
    behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud,
    and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents.
    They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no
    mercy. They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve
    to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them,
    too. (NLT)

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11

    Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God?
    Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols,
    or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are
    thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none
    of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But
    you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling
    on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)

    1 Timothy 1:8-10

    Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this,
    that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient,
    for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike
    their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who
    practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is
    contrary to sound doctrine … (ESV)
    There is more. But this will suffice.

  • Darach Conneely

    No, I am a happily married heterosexual, but I am also a Christian who has always held up tradition to the light of scripture “to see if these things were so” Acts 17:11

    Bible Verses About Homosexuality Genesis 19:1-11
    So you think the problem was the men of Sodom thought the visitors were male when they demanded to have sex with them, rather than the fact that they wanted to rape visitors to the city?

    Leviticus 18 & 20
    I have already pointed out that as Christians we are no longer under the Levitical law, and the word detestable or abomination also applied to ham sandwiches.

    1 & 2Kings
    Refers to male prostitutes at pagan shrines, which is (a) selling sex for money and (b) idolatry. But if male shrine prostitution means every form of homosexuality is wrong, wouldn’t female shrine prostitutes mean all heterosexual sex is wrong?

    Romans 1
    This is talking about heterosexuals whose idolatrous worship goes from ritual sex (probably with female temple prostitutes) to indulging in homosexual acts against their heterosexual nature, again in the context of classical ritual prostitution, lured further into debauchery by male prostitutes also touting for business there. While Greek and Romans recognised that there were people who were homosexual by nature as well as those who were heterosexual, Paul only addresses heterosexuals indulging in homosexual acts here, not homosexuals.

    1Corinthians 6:9-11 & 1Timothy 1:8-10
    I have addressed the word used in 1Cor in my previous post. 1Tim uses the same word arsenokoites, which does not refer to all forms of homosexuality just one particular abusive form.

  • cdl123

    Just another individual attempting to reinterpret what God intended. To be a Christian is how one lives Gods word and treats others, but that does not mean accepting sin as okay so you don’t have to confront others in society. A Christian treats others that disagrees with their beliefs with respect and human dignity, without accepting their sin. Love the sinner not the sin. And that is what this is all about. Please stop reinterpreting Gods word by cherry picking statements to fit societies secular beliefs.

  • Darach Conneely

    I agree we need to treat others with dignity and respect, even if we disagree with them and think their behaviour is sin. However if you are going to claim they are living in sin, you need to pretty sure you are confronting them based on what the word of God says, not just human traditions and human interpretations of scripture. The traditions of men need to be reinterpreted. We need to examine the Scriptures…to see if these things are so Acts 17:11.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    And when we examine standard English translations of the Scriptures, we see that they portray homosexual relations as being sinful.

  • Wayne

    Homosexuality is a sin and the consequences of such a sin is unquestionably in the Scriptures:

    “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” ( 1 Cor. 6:9-10)

    So if homosexuality is not a sin, then please exegete this text and tell us why are they included with the other immoral people that will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven?

  • Darach Conneely

    The word translated homosexuals, malakos, literally means soft Matt 11:8 “What then did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses.” It can refer to people devoting themselves to a life of luxury, or to those who are cowardly, morally weak and lacking in self control. Other suggestions are that is was associated with male prostitution or catamites. The word translated sodomites, arsenokoites, is very difficult to translate. It does seem to have something to do with homosexuality, but where we see a context for its usage it is one of violence, coercion or financial exploitation. The suggestion Paul is using the words for active and passive homosexual partners ignores the fact that this passage is a vice list, with no suggestion in the wording that malakos and arsenokoites are any more paired than covetous and drunkards, or reviler and extortioners. Paul may have referred to specific types of homosexual practice in arsenokoites and possibly malakos, but the terms are not a blanket condemnation of all forms of homosexuality.

  • Wayne

    Nice try, but your conclusions are wrong! Both words deals with men, especially “Arsenokoites”, having sex with other men. Contextually, Paul knew exactly what he was saying and communicating. The bottom line is what you’ve written is nothing more than typical gay revisionist rhetoric. There is no wiggle room my friend, and you and any other homosexual must repent of your perversion or risk eternal judgment. I would advise that you stop trying to justify, excuse, rationalize, and reason your way through this matter, and begin to seek the Lord for healing and deliverance. Homosexuality is and always will be as the Bible describes it: “unnatural, against nature, vile affection, shameful, an error, an abomination, and it has a penalty: The Judgment of God”. Remember these words from Jesus and take them to heart:

    “Whomever The Son Sets Free Is Free Indeed!”

  • Darach Conneely

    We know arsenokoites has something to do with having men sex with other men, but we don’t know that it was a general term that covered all forms of homosexual activity, which is what you need to claim Paul was saying all forms of homosexuality were wrong. In fact the contexts we find it in suggest it referred to homosexual sex in the context of violence, exploitation or robbery. That is hardly a description of same sex marriage. Now Paul as you say, knew exactly what it meant, as did his readers. But we don’t. The meaning of the word has been lost. You can’t bind people up with laws they cannot bear, based on obscure words we don’t understand.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    Youre exaggerating. Bible dictionaries etc reveal that translators are reasonably confident they know the meanings of those words.

  • me

    The fact that Jesus did not mention Homosexuality is true. But he didn’t call sexual trafficking a sin either. Jesus did not even need to list homosexuality as sin. His audience knew of Sodom. They knew his stance on this issue. Go and Sin no more. This said, I appreciate your concern for the truth about divorce and remarriage – way too much of it is accepted- there are clear reasons scripturally that support divorce for adultery and in this case only the injured party should be free to remarry. Unfortunately our churches are failing here as well. We need to get back to truth.

  • Darach Conneely

    Actually Jews of Jesus time thought the sin of Sodom was inhospitality, arrogance over their wealth leaded to gross injustice and hatred of everyone else (Josephus Sirach 16:8). Philo of Alexandria was probably the first to connect it with homosexuality. We cannot build arguments for or against homosexuality based on what Jesus did not say. It is arguing from silence which is a fallacy.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    You know that Philo of Alexandria was a part of the Jewish culture of the “Jews of Jesus time”, right?

    And you know that the claim that “Philo of Alexandria was probably the first to connect it with homosexuality” is to some degree an argument from the silence of others, right?

  • Emerging Christian

    Well done. Thanks for the good (and inclusive) word.

  • Emerging Christian

    Well done. Thanks for the good (and inclusive) word.

  • Exdeovera
  • Exdeovera
  • housebeatz

    As a gay man who grew up in a strict evangelical home, I thank you for your thought provoking post. I still consider myself a Christian and have a relationship with Christ. My family is evangelical, but they have come to accept me for who I am over the years. My parents have even come to accept the loving relationship I have with my partner. They don’t understand, but I feel they are at peace that this is just the way it is. They have come a long way as many Christians have. Half of the comments here are offensive and predictable of Christians who have no desire to empathize or understand what its like to walk in someone else’s shoes. Naive thinking that you can just pray the gay away. Its just a sin, stop. Imagine trying to be gay, thats how hard it is for the reverse. Growing up gay in an evangelical home is one of the most depressing, challenging struggles a young person can go through. I don’t believe that God makes one gay but then restricts them from experiencing the greatest gift of being human.. being in love. Being gay is so much more than a sexual act, but people who don’t understand, can’t get past it. If someone is gay then its between them and God and no one else’s business to judge or comment. And frankly its hard to take spiritual advice from anyone who does not understand what it means to be gay. The church has lost many over this subject, including myself.

  • Wayne

    If you are “practicing” as a gay man by sleeping with other men, you are NOT a Christian! You are deceived by Satan and need to repent of it.

  • Reststopkirk

    Thanks for sharing. I can only imagine the struggles you have been through. It is an interesting thing to realize how much marriage is boiled down to sexual roles. I appreciate your comment bringing this point forward.

  • housebeatz

    As a gay man who grew up in a strict evangelical home, I thank you for your thought provoking post. I still consider myself a Christian and have a relationship with Christ. My family is evangelical, but they have come to accept me for who I am over the years. My parents have even come to accept the loving relationship I have with my partner. They don’t understand, but I feel they are at peace that this is just the way it is. They have come a long way as many Christians have. Half of the comments here are offensive and predictable of Christians who have no desire to empathize or understand what its like to walk in someone else’s shoes. Naive thinking that you can just pray the gay away. Its just a sin, stop. Imagine trying to be gay, thats how hard it is for the reverse. Growing up gay in an evangelical home is one of the most depressing, challenging struggles a young person can go through. I don’t believe that God makes one gay but then restricts them from experiencing the greatest gift of being human.. being in love. Being gay is so much more than a sexual act, but people who don’t understand, can’t get past it. If someone is gay then its between them and God and no one else’s business to judge or comment. And frankly its hard to take spiritual advice from anyone who does not understand what it means to be gay. The church has lost many over this subject, including myself.

  • Wayne

    If you are “practicing” as a gay man by sleeping with other men, you are NOT a Christian! You are deceived by Satan and need to repent of it.

  • Reststopkirk

    Thanks for sharing. I can only imagine the struggles you have been through. It is an interesting thing to realize how much marriage is boiled down to sexual roles. I appreciate your comment bringing this point forward.

  • Frank Turk

    I’m curious regarding the last point made here:

    Who has made the American cultural obsession with Homosexuality a reality?

  • Frank Turk

    I’m curious regarding the last point made here:

    Who has made the American cultural obsession with Homosexuality a reality?

  • sherpa_dad

    You state that Christians are being distracted by the marriage war and attention is being taken from “real, pressing issues” Christians are suppose to address. May I remind you, it is not Christians declaring this war. It is the alternative lifestyle community forcing it upon them. And, I would argue that greater degrees of human suffering will result from failure to defend traditional marriage and the family unit if we (with of course, God’s help) do not defeat evil, branded as acceptance of alternative lifestyle behavior, at this time.

  • sherpa_dad

    You state that Christians are being distracted by the marriage war and attention is being taken from “real, pressing issues” Christians are suppose to address. May I remind you, it is not Christians declaring this war. It is the alternative lifestyle community forcing it upon them. And, I would argue that greater degrees of human suffering will result from failure to defend traditional marriage and the family unit if we (with of course, God’s help) do not defeat evil, branded as acceptance of alternative lifestyle behavior, at this time.

  • TMAN

    This post is surreal. How does this author claim to push forward the kingdom of God while simultaneously disregarding God’s instruction manual (aka, The Bible)?

    Let’s take the main propositions one at a time:

    > …there are gay Christians.

    Really? I wonder what St. Paul might say about that notion:
    [+] Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1Cor 6:9-11)

    If you believe there are “gay Christians”, then apparently you also believe there are “sexually immoral Christian” and “Christian idolaters” and “thieving Christians” and “greedy Christian” and “drunkard Christians”, etc, etc.
    If your Gospel doesn’t produce ex-gays (and ex-idolaters, etc), and if you can’t say to ex-gays “such *WERE* some of you”, then you do not understand what it means to be washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of God.
    In other words, here’s what Paul says about you: you are deceived. All of these people (not just gays) who practice these things will *not* inherit the kingdom of God. That means they’re not Christians.

    > …reexamine what the Bible teaches on homosexuality.

    I do. And every time I re-examine it, I get the same answer – The same orthodox answer that Judeo-Christians around the planet have come to for the past 3,500 years. And we should change our conclusion today because .. why? (we’ll pause briefly to point out that this author gave no exegetical insight whatsoever to overturn 3,500 years of consistent Biblical interpretation . No surprise there, of course).

    And yes, gluttony is a sin. Why is that not obvious?

    > even if you’re right, it shouldn’t dramatically change the praxis of your faith.

    Orthopraxy (right practice) always follows orthodoxy (right doctrine). Change your doctrine, and your practice will change. If not, you’re a hypocrite: teaching one thing, but practicing another.

    > the cultural obsession with homosexuality within the American Church is detracting from the things Jesus asked us to do.

    Let’s check the last thing Jesus “asked” us to do. It’s called “The Great Commission”:

    [+] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age. (Matt 28:19-20)

    Our final instructions are to go out and make disciples, teaching them to obey everything He commanded.

    1. Disciples, by definition, constrain themselves to the instructions of their leader. They do not function with moral autonomy, or contradict their master. If Jesus taught that homosexuality was immoral, then His disciples are obligated to do the same.

    2. Jesus told us to make disciples that would observe everything that He *commanded*. Nothing here is optional. We don’t “request” people to follow Jesus’ suggestions – we make disciples who observe (ie, obey) everything He *commanded*.
    If Jesus was against homosexuality, His disciples are obligated to do the same.
    And it goes w/o saying that Jesus always only affirmed one kind of sexual union: heterosexual marriage. (Matt 19)

    I appreciate that the author wants people to “Rediscover The Radical Message of Jesus. ”

    I suggest he starts by reading the Gospels and taking Jesus’ words seriously.

  • TMAN

    This post is surreal. How does this author claim to push forward the kingdom of God while simultaneously disregarding God’s instruction manual (aka, The Bible)?

    Let’s take the main propositions one at a time:

    > …there are gay Christians.

    Really? I wonder what St. Paul might say about that notion:
    [+] Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1Cor 6:9-11)

    If you believe there are “gay Christians”, then apparently you also believe there are “sexually immoral Christian” and “Christian idolaters” and “thieving Christians” and “greedy Christian” and “drunkard Christians”, etc, etc.
    If your Gospel doesn’t produce ex-gays (and ex-idolaters, etc), and if you can’t say to ex-gays “such *WERE* some of you”, then you do not understand what it means to be washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of God.
    In other words, here’s what Paul says about you: you are deceived. All of these people (not just gays) who practice these things will *not* inherit the kingdom of God. That means they’re not Christians.

    > …reexamine what the Bible teaches on homosexuality.

    I do. And every time I re-examine it, I get the same answer – The same orthodox answer that Judeo-Christians around the planet have come to for the past 3,500 years. And we should change our conclusion today because .. why? (we’ll pause briefly to point out that this author gave no exegetical insight whatsoever to overturn 3,500 years of consistent Biblical interpretation . No surprise there, of course).

    And yes, gluttony is a sin. Why is that not obvious?

    > even if you’re right, it shouldn’t dramatically change the praxis of your faith.

    Orthopraxy (right practice) always follows orthodoxy (right doctrine). Change your doctrine, and your practice will change. If not, you’re a hypocrite: teaching one thing, but practicing another.

    > the cultural obsession with homosexuality within the American Church is detracting from the things Jesus asked us to do.

    Let’s check the last thing Jesus “asked” us to do. It’s called “The Great Commission”:

    [+] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age. (Matt 28:19-20)

    Our final instructions are to go out and make disciples, teaching them to obey everything He commanded.

    1. Disciples, by definition, constrain themselves to the instructions of their leader. They do not function with moral autonomy, or contradict their master. If Jesus taught that homosexuality was immoral, then His disciples are obligated to do the same.

    2. Jesus told us to make disciples that would observe everything that He *commanded*. Nothing here is optional. We don’t “request” people to follow Jesus’ suggestions – we make disciples who observe (ie, obey) everything He *commanded*.
    If Jesus was against homosexuality, His disciples are obligated to do the same.
    And it goes w/o saying that Jesus always only affirmed one kind of sexual union: heterosexual marriage. (Matt 19)

    I appreciate that the author wants people to “Rediscover The Radical Message of Jesus. ”

    I suggest he starts by reading the Gospels and taking Jesus’ words seriously.

  • Tom

    Is being gay, a sin? So asks the title. No, it’s not. But ‘being’ something, isnt really how Scripture presents it. It’s not so much about what you are, it’s about what you do. It’s not ‘being’ gay that’s sinful. Rather it’s having gay sex, that’s sinful.

  • Tom

    Is being gay, a sin? So asks the title. No, it’s not. But ‘being’ something, isnt really how Scripture presents it. It’s not so much about what you are, it’s about what you do. It’s not ‘being’ gay that’s sinful. Rather it’s having gay sex, that’s sinful.

  • to77

    “Matthew Vines has a great new book with does exactly that– God and the Gay Christian– and I would strongly urge you to read it. Matthew is a conservative evangelical who writes from a conservative evangelical perspective…”

    Are you serious? How dishonest could you possibly be?

    Google Matthew Vines: Matthew Vines is an openly gay Christian speaker and LGBT activist.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    and Vines’ book reveals that he tends to cite non-evangelical sources as foundational to much of his theology.

  • to77

    “Matthew Vines has a great new book with does exactly that– God and the Gay Christian– and I would strongly urge you to read it. Matthew is a conservative evangelical who writes from a conservative evangelical perspective…”

    Are you serious? How dishonest could you possibly be?

    Google Matthew Vines: Matthew Vines is an openly gay Christian speaker and LGBT activist.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    and Vines’ book reveals that he tends to cite non-evangelical sources as foundational to much of his theology.

  • cdl123

    Being gay is not a sin. It is the act that is the sin. While one may have compassion on individuals that have a same sex attraction, and we may not fully understand it, God has been clear about how he feels concerning it. Those that have twisted and justified their belief to be otherwise are telling God how things should be. They have fallen prey to the secular, and societal pressures and not stood firm in God’s laws. I don’t believe that these people should be persecuted, nor denied their free agency, nor basic human rights. But it still should not affect the rights of the faithful to live and believe on God’s word. And the secularists don’t have the right to persecute religious people for their beliefs, nor force feed their children their ideology.

  • cdl123

    Being gay is not a sin. It is the act that is the sin. While one may have compassion on individuals that have a same sex attraction, and we may not fully understand it, God has been clear about how he feels concerning it. Those that have twisted and justified their belief to be otherwise are telling God how things should be. They have fallen prey to the secular, and societal pressures and not stood firm in God’s laws. I don’t believe that these people should be persecuted, nor denied their free agency, nor basic human rights. But it still should not affect the rights of the faithful to live and believe on God’s word. And the secularists don’t have the right to persecute religious people for their beliefs, nor force feed their children their ideology.

  • Wayne

    This article is complete nonsense! Period. The Bible is explicitly clear that homosexuality is not what God created when HE established human sexuality. HE purposely created Male and Female and nothing else in between. Amazingly, people try to justify a barbaric behavior that God has already condemned and promised to judge.

    To really “love” people, we must do what the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write: “Speaking the TRUTH in Love”. To watch people die and go to a Christ-less eternity is not love, and if I were not saved by the grace of God and needed to find my way to Jesus, I would never consider the people that are pounding the pavement in seeking to massage homosexuals and make them feel better.

    If being homosexual and engaging in the despicable act of anal intercourse between men is okay, then pedophilia is okay, adultery is okay, fornicating is okay, whore-mongering is okay, and many other things are okay. Matthew Vines is nothing more than regurgitated gay revisionist hogwash and nothing more…and he pretty much admits it in his little book. Homosexuality is a major sin because God in His Word declares it to be so! Period.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    It’s not that simple unfortunately, as is revealed if you perhaps Google Klinefelter syndrome and similar.

  • Wayne

    This article is complete nonsense! Period. The Bible is explicitly clear that homosexuality is not what God created when HE established human sexuality. HE purposely created Male and Female and nothing else in between. Amazingly, people try to justify a barbaric behavior that God has already condemned and promised to judge.

    To really “love” people, we must do what the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write: “Speaking the TRUTH in Love”. To watch people die and go to a Christ-less eternity is not love, and if I were not saved by the grace of God and needed to find my way to Jesus, I would never consider the people that are pounding the pavement in seeking to massage homosexuals and make them feel better.

    If being homosexual and engaging in the despicable act of anal intercourse between men is okay, then pedophilia is okay, adultery is okay, fornicating is okay, whore-mongering is okay, and many other things are okay. Matthew Vines is nothing more than regurgitated gay revisionist hogwash and nothing more…and he pretty much admits it in his little book. Homosexuality is a major sin because God in His Word declares it to be so! Period.

  • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

    It’s not that simple unfortunately, as is revealed if you perhaps Google Klinefelter syndrome and similar.

  • Starr

    Anybody who thinks that living a homosexual lifestyle is the same as living a heterosexual lifestyle in the confines of marriage is ignorant. The very idea of being homosexual includes perverseness of what was first natural. If homosexuals were accepted at the very beginning as natural and normal, they wouldn’t have come to the desperation of marriage for social acceptance. To be homosexual (because of its perverse nature) is to move in a direction away from monogamy. It is not characteristic of the homosexual lifestyle. This “new” agenda to legalize same sex marriage is only a tactic or ploy for social acceptance. But because of the nature of the perverseness of homosexuality, it will not stop there. It is only s step in the direction of where this is supposed to go. This whole debate between Christians in their arena and between government officials in their arena is a fantastic distraction for what I call the hard core homosexual movement. and I also believe that there are people caught up in the homosexual lifestyle that are following blindly as they perhaps are not hard core but are more conservative. On another note, there are multitudes of other atrocities in our society and people of heterosexual monogamous relationships that are bad examples. It grieves me on all accounts. There is only hope in our Lord Jesus Christ and following his example in Truth and Spirit.

  • Starr

    Anybody who thinks that living a homosexual lifestyle is the same as living a heterosexual lifestyle in the confines of marriage is ignorant. The very idea of being homosexual includes perverseness of what was first natural. If homosexuals were accepted at the very beginning as natural and normal, they wouldn’t have come to the desperation of marriage for social acceptance. To be homosexual (because of its perverse nature) is to move in a direction away from monogamy. It is not characteristic of the homosexual lifestyle. This “new” agenda to legalize same sex marriage is only a tactic or ploy for social acceptance. But because of the nature of the perverseness of homosexuality, it will not stop there. It is only s step in the direction of where this is supposed to go. This whole debate between Christians in their arena and between government officials in their arena is a fantastic distraction for what I call the hard core homosexual movement. and I also believe that there are people caught up in the homosexual lifestyle that are following blindly as they perhaps are not hard core but are more conservative. On another note, there are multitudes of other atrocities in our society and people of heterosexual monogamous relationships that are bad examples. It grieves me on all accounts. There is only hope in our Lord Jesus Christ and following his example in Truth and Spirit.

  • http://almostreadytogoamish.blogspot.com/ Johnny

    In light of this topic, can churches remain free to only offer and provide heterosexual marriages, which they personally believe to be the definition of marriage Biblically, or does the church need to be forced by the state to “dramatically change the praxis” and be required to include this? What if a pastor requires counciling prior to marriages, and has books to use that have specific guidance for the husband and for the wife, that doesn’t work with a gay couple?

  • http://almostreadytogoamish.blogspot.com/ Johnny

    In light of this topic, can churches remain free to only offer and provide heterosexual marriages, which they personally believe to be the definition of marriage Biblically, or does the church need to be forced by the state to “dramatically change the praxis” and be required to include this? What if a pastor requires counciling prior to marriages, and has books to use that have specific guidance for the husband and for the wife, that doesn’t work with a gay couple?

  • Bob A

    Homosexuality is an “abomination” in the sight of God. Case closed. No one is born homosexual. They turn themselves into a homosexual. Just like alcoholics. No one is born an alcoholic, you turn yourself into an alcoholic. Homosexuality is a sexual addiction and sin.

  • Reststopkirk

    Riiiiiiiiiiight…. So that gay friend I know is just addicted to sex…. He hasn’t tried to pray the gay away, sought counseling, and is lying to himself about not liking boobs…

  • Bob A

    Your friend toyed with the perversion and eventually a hook is put in. They are turned over to their perversion. Once addicted it is extremely hard to break away from it. Not impossible but very difficult. There are people who can help but most homosexuals don’t want that kind of help.

  • Reststopkirk

    Now, you are presuming to know much about this person. Unfortunately for your view, he wasn’t addicted or toying with anything. He was questioning why, in a society where he is “supposed” to be attracted to women, why he was physically attracted to men and not women. He did all the previously mentioned therapy, before acknowledging his orientation. So, the definition of addiction cannot be used here. You cannot explain away his sexual orientation as a snowballing perversion of lust… but I assume this just doesn’t fit your nice, neat, “for every man have and answer” paradigm.

  • Bob A

    The hook was too deep. He was given over to his sin and turned his back on God, preferring the temporary delights of his sin. He will regret that choice both here and especially after his death.

  • Bob A

    Homosexuality is an “abomination” in the sight of God. Case closed. No one is born homosexual. They turn themselves into a homosexual. Just like alcoholics. No one is born an alcoholic, you turn yourself into an alcoholic. Homosexuality is a sexual addiction and sin.

  • Reststopkirk

    Riiiiiiiiiiight…. So that gay friend I know is just addicted to sex…. He hasn’t tried to pray the gay away, sought counseling, and is lying to himself about not liking boobs…

  • Bob A

    Your friend toyed with the perversion and eventually a hook is put in. They are turned over to their perversion. Once addicted it is extremely hard to break away from it. Not impossible but very difficult. There are people who can help but most homosexuals don’t want that kind of help.

  • Reststopkirk

    Now, you are presuming to know much about this person. Unfortunately for your view, he wasn’t addicted or toying with anything. He was questioning why, in a society where he is “supposed” to be attracted to women, why he was physically attracted to men and not women. He did all the previously mentioned therapy, before acknowledging his orientation. So, the definition of addiction cannot be used here. You cannot explain away his sexual orientation as a snowballing perversion of lust… but I assume this just doesn’t fit your nice, neat, “for every man have and answer” paradigm.

  • Bob A

    The hook was too deep. He was given over to his sin and turned his back on God, preferring the temporary delights of his sin. He will regret that choice both here and especially after his death.

  • me

    Without HOLINESS no one will see God. There is a very thin line between embracing someone and accepting their sin. Read Ephesians 5. Homosexuality is scripturally (old testament, new testament and 400 years of no speech in between) clearly sexual sin, like adultery. If someone says they are a believer and participates in such sin with no repentance (turning away and forsaking the sin) You are not to even eat with such a person. THis sounds harsh, but the goal is their redemption and the purification of the Church. WE (the church in America) are becoming a social nicety not a refining fire. This is disastrous.

  • me

    Without HOLINESS no one will see God. There is a very thin line between embracing someone and accepting their sin. Read Ephesians 5. Homosexuality is scripturally (old testament, new testament and 400 years of no speech in between) clearly sexual sin, like adultery. If someone says they are a believer and participates in such sin with no repentance (turning away and forsaking the sin) You are not to even eat with such a person. THis sounds harsh, but the goal is their redemption and the purification of the Church. WE (the church in America) are becoming a social nicety not a refining fire. This is disastrous.

  • Hans Pcguy

    Certainly a “gay” can be a Christian, if he or she has repented of the act of homosexuality. Or if he or she has acknowledged the sinfulness of homosexual activity and actively seeking to repent. But a person who celebrates their gayness and considers themselves a Christian is deceived.

  • Hans Pcguy

    Certainly a “gay” can be a Christian, if he or she has repented of the act of homosexuality. Or if he or she has acknowledged the sinfulness of homosexual activity and actively seeking to repent. But a person who celebrates their gayness and considers themselves a Christian is deceived.

  • Conanjay Wallace

    2 Cor. 5:17—->teaches that if any man is in Christ he is a NEW creature. The term “new” denotes something that has never appeared before. Everything old has passed away and we need to behold, or look to everything that is new within us. We are not to walk according to the course of this world….which is the course or manner of satan. We can not be a gay Christian any more than we can be a fornicating or lying Christian. Why? Because the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses from ALL sin. Christianity is not about religion it is about relationship. We don’t have to confess gay Christianity or any other type of Christianity incompatible with Scripture. We can confess Jesus as Lord and let Him be that in our lives. You can have victory over every lie of the enemy in Jesus name. Hallelujah!

  • Conanjay Wallace

    2 Cor. 5:17—->teaches that if any man is in Christ he is a NEW creature. The term “new” denotes something that has never appeared before. Everything old has passed away and we need to behold, or look to everything that is new within us. We are not to walk according to the course of this world….which is the course or manner of satan. We can not be a gay Christian any more than we can be a fornicating or lying Christian. Why? Because the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses from ALL sin. Christianity is not about religion it is about relationship. We don’t have to confess gay Christianity or any other type of Christianity incompatible with Scripture. We can confess Jesus as Lord and let Him be that in our lives. You can have victory over every lie of the enemy in Jesus name. Hallelujah!

  • http://facebook.com/nick.yancey Nick Yancey

    “Tuesday I was with my friend and fellow author, Frank Schaeffer and he was telling me a story about his parents. They were theologically conservative on the issue of homosexuality, but as Frank describes, were “glorious hypocrites” because they were so loving to their gay friends in their day to day living. Ultimately, I think the correctness of a theological opinion is somewhat irrelevant in comparison to personal behavior– a truth Jesus taught in Matthew 25. Consider all sides and still think it’s a sin? Have at it– but please consider being a glorious hypocrite on the issue, as we are on so many others, by choosing radical love for other people instead of planting your flag in the rightness of correct belief.”

    Is this is a joke? Correctness of a theological opinion…irrelevant compared to personal behavior? I don’t know how people keep coming to this idea, but you cannot have one side or the other. Personal piety and action are two sides of the same transformative work of the Spirit. Theology – how we think about God, what God has done, and what we are and do in light of that – informs what we are HOPING FOR, and what we are hoping for will inform what we work toward. Theology is NEVER irrelevant. What is reprehensible is hypocrisy, either by having correct belief and no actions to speak for it (like my fundamentalist Baptist upbringing), or having actions with weak theology behind it and/or no transformation of the inner person (like the revisionism of many who claim to be working for social justice. Of course, not all.)

    Ultimately, I must accept the axiom that truth will never contradict truth. There are many expressions of what God is doing in each of our lives, but they MUST spring from one Spirit, and if two modes contradict each other, then one or both are incorrect in their assumptions and/or method. Of course, it may end up that there is no contradiction and that the Spirit will evidence the appropriate reconciliation, but it takes effort and prayer to discern these things. We cannot relativize our morality, we cannot relativize our truth, we cannot relativize the good news once received.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think it is absolutely repulsive how the LGBTQI community has been singled out and excised from the body. It is hypocrisy to take so narrow a focus, knowing that there are other issues at hand and ignoring them. Even if I may disagree with choices made by members of that community pursuant of their attractions, yet if they claim Christ as per, say, Romans 10:9, then they are indeed equal vessels of glory before the Lord in the way Peter spoke of husbands and wives in his first letter.

    But I will not speak on the topic of LGBTQI here anymore, because my concern is bigger than that particular issue, and because opinions are so cheap these days. But I would caution against those who say to be a “glorious hypocrite” or operate as though the only standard to which we are beholden is either that of works or that of doctrine. It cannot be only one or the other; you must have both. “Jesus answered them, ‘This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.'” – John 6:29 And my goodness, is it work indeed.

  • http://facebook.com/nick.yancey Nick Yancey

    “Tuesday I was with my friend and fellow author, Frank Schaeffer and he was telling me a story about his parents. They were theologically conservative on the issue of homosexuality, but as Frank describes, were “glorious hypocrites” because they were so loving to their gay friends in their day to day living. Ultimately, I think the correctness of a theological opinion is somewhat irrelevant in comparison to personal behavior– a truth Jesus taught in Matthew 25. Consider all sides and still think it’s a sin? Have at it– but please consider being a glorious hypocrite on the issue, as we are on so many others, by choosing radical love for other people instead of planting your flag in the rightness of correct belief.”

    Is this is a joke? Correctness of a theological opinion…irrelevant compared to personal behavior? I don’t know how people keep coming to this idea, but you cannot have one side or the other. Personal piety and action are two sides of the same transformative work of the Spirit. Theology – how we think about God, what God has done, and what we are and do in light of that – informs what we are HOPING FOR, and what we are hoping for will inform what we work toward. Theology is NEVER irrelevant. What is reprehensible is hypocrisy, either by having correct belief and no actions to speak for it (like my fundamentalist Baptist upbringing), or having actions with weak theology behind it and/or no transformation of the inner person (like the revisionism of many who claim to be working for social justice. Of course, not all.)

    Ultimately, I must accept the axiom that truth will never contradict truth. There are many expressions of what God is doing in each of our lives, but they MUST spring from one Spirit, and if two modes contradict each other, then one or both are incorrect in their assumptions and/or method. Of course, it may end up that there is no contradiction and that the Spirit will evidence the appropriate reconciliation, but it takes effort and prayer to discern these things. We cannot relativize our morality, we cannot relativize our truth, we cannot relativize the good news once received.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think it is absolutely repulsive how the LGBTQI community has been singled out and excised from the body. It is hypocrisy to take so narrow a focus, knowing that there are other issues at hand and ignoring them. Even if I may disagree with choices made by members of that community pursuant of their attractions, yet if they claim Christ as per, say, Romans 10:9, then they are indeed equal vessels of glory before the Lord in the way Peter spoke of husbands and wives in his first letter.

    But I will not speak on the topic of LGBTQI here anymore, because my concern is bigger than that particular issue, and because opinions are so cheap these days. But I would caution against those who say to be a “glorious hypocrite” or operate as though the only standard to which we are beholden is either that of works or that of doctrine. It cannot be only one or the other; you must have both. “Jesus answered them, ‘This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.'” – John 6:29 And my goodness, is it work indeed.

  • Waxmuseummeltdown

    ”Please consider that even if you’re right”-No. The Bible IS right and tells us so.

  • Waxmuseummeltdown

    ”Please consider that even if you’re right”-No. The Bible IS right and tells us so.

  • 30woman

    being gay is a label that the world and the self wants to identify with. This is not who they are and when they can accept that they can be free. We have to stop arguing about sin because we are all covered by grace and with everything just take it to The Lord and he will take care of it. If someone is feeling bound by this like they do not have a choice then you know something is wrong, help them, stop judging. We all have felt bound by labels the world or ourselves have placed on us and those things are not our identity, Christ is. We all have to die to ourselves so that we can live in Christ.
    There is [now no distinction] neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭28‬ AMP) These are labels

  • 30woman

    being gay is a label that the world and the self wants to identify with. This is not who they are and when they can accept that they can be free. We have to stop arguing about sin because we are all covered by grace and with everything just take it to The Lord and he will take care of it. If someone is feeling bound by this like they do not have a choice then you know something is wrong, help them, stop judging. We all have felt bound by labels the world or ourselves have placed on us and those things are not our identity, Christ is. We all have to die to ourselves so that we can live in Christ.
    There is [now no distinction] neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭28‬ AMP) These are labels

  • Jeff Tilley

    This post (and this author) – as all have done before – goes WAY off the moral highway that the bible so perfectly outlines. OK, ready for this? BE GAY IF YOU WANT TO …. but don’t have sex. BE HETERO IF YOU WANT TO … but don’t have sex. Is there something wrong with being single and celibate?? Apparently, the bible does not think so. Just get over yourself and only have sex within the boundaries of a God-sanctioned marriage. It’s really pretty simple. Why make it difficult?

    Sex is for marriage. Marriage is for one man and one woman. Got it, now? Good. Now get to work in the Kingdom of God and stop fighting, little children.

  • Jeff Tilley

    This post (and this author) – as all have done before – goes WAY off the moral highway that the bible so perfectly outlines. OK, ready for this? BE GAY IF YOU WANT TO …. but don’t have sex. BE HETERO IF YOU WANT TO … but don’t have sex. Is there something wrong with being single and celibate?? Apparently, the bible does not think so. Just get over yourself and only have sex within the boundaries of a God-sanctioned marriage. It’s really pretty simple. Why make it difficult?

    Sex is for marriage. Marriage is for one man and one woman. Got it, now? Good. Now get to work in the Kingdom of God and stop fighting, little children.