Everyone Should Know About This…

  • http://thecatholicsciencegeek.blogspot.com/ Catholic Science Geek

    I almost could not believe it the first time I viewed it….horrifying and despicable.

    • http://twitter.com/yonmei Yonmei

      I agree – this campaign against the most effective healthcare provider in the US for people living on a low income, is horrifying and despicable. It’s really disgusting that Catholics, of all people, are so eager to ensure women living without health insurance don’t get healthcare, because they might use their access to healthcare to get an abortion, and they will use the access to healthcare to get contraception.

      Haven’t heard anything about this “scandal”, but a google tells me the only place it’s being reported so far are on prolife propaganda sites, Catholic websites, and far-right “news” sites. Which doesn’t suggest that it’s likely to be rooted in fact – it’s most likely a classic example of prolifers bearing false witness against Planned Parenthood, something they do on a regular and consistent basis.

      • http://thecatholicsciencegeek.blogspot.com/ Catholic Science Geek

        Most effective healthcare provider?!?! Are you kidding me!?!?! Since when does PP make sure that its facilities are up to the same codes as your standard hospital? Also, since when do all PP centers even OFFER breast exams? Since when do its “healthcare providers” receive the same “women’s health” training as your standard physician? There’s more to women’s health than birth control pills and abortion!

        Try digging a little deeper than simply “a google” and then you’d get the facts straight. If our “propaganda” was just that, Congress would have never been forced to investigate PP earlier this year.

        This isn’t the first time “prolife sites” reported something before everyone else was forced to admit it…and I doubt it will be the last time.

        • http://twitter.com/yonmei Yonmei

          “Most effective healthcare provider?!?!”

          What is it, something like 1 in 4 American women have used Planned Parenthood services at some point in their lives? PP provides preventive healthcare economically and effectively to literally millions of women, many of them without health insurance or with unsustainably high co-pays. That’s an extremely effective healthcare service.

          “Also, since when do all PP centers even OFFER breast exams? ”

          Planned Parenthood centres, as I understand it, from the UK where the NHS provides the kind of healthcare service most Americans can only dream of, provide services as required for the locale they serve.

          “Since when do its “healthcare providers” receive the same “women’s health” training as your standard physician? ”

          Er… are you trying to claim there are no doctors or nurse practitioners working in Planned Parenthood health centres? Cause I’m pretty sure you’re very wrong about that. And if you try to claim that doctors and nurses who specialise in a specific area of healthcare and work in a health centre where they practice in that area day in and day out are somehow by that training and experience rendered less qualified than “your standard physician”, well… disagree.

          “There’s more to women’s health than birth control pills and abortion! ”

          Of course there is. And Planned Parenthood, bless them, provide a wide range of services around women’s healthcare. I’m glad to see you’re not one of those people who think that contraception and abortion are not part of women’s healthcare, even if they are the part that so many Catholics want women to be denied.

          “Try digging a little deeper than simply “a google” and then you’d get the facts straight.”

          Thanks to extensive reading on more reliable websites than right-wing propaganda, I’m aware of the really evil campaign that various disgusting people have been running against Planned Parenthood, so I think I have my facts a lot more straight than you do! Particularly with your confusion about whether doctors and nurses who work at health centres are less qualified in their area than “your standard physician”.

          ” If our “propaganda” was just that, Congress would have never been forced to investigate PP earlier this year. “”

          You mean like the lying propaganda that not only got Congress to investigate ACORN, it got Congress to defund ACORN? Same source, same lies: US Congress isn’t exactly cynical about the right-wing propaganda that it gets fed.

          • http://thecatholicsciencegeek.blogspot.com/ Catholic Science Geek

            “What is it, something like 1 in 4 American women have used Planned Parenthood services at some point in their lives?”

            They may have used PP services, but this statistic does not tell us anything about the service, sanitation, or situations involved. Also, it does not tell us how many were coerced into using the services, how many of them were misinformed about the services, and what types of services they received.

            “Planned Parenthood centres, as I understand it, from the UK where the NHS provides the kind of healthcare service most Americans can only dream of, provide services as required for the locale they serve. . . .Of course there is. And Planned Parenthood, bless them, provide a wide range of services around women’s healthcare. ”

            I DARE you to call up 10 PP centers in the US at random and see what kind of services they provide. PP misleads women with this idea of “health care.” If birth control methods were so great at taking care of a women’s health…why doesn’t PP look into treating women for heart-related issues….because it is one of the most prominent causes of death for women. If PP REALLY put women first, it would certainly invest more money in this silent killer. Also, if they really cared about women’s health they would get to the root of amenorrhea, painful PMS, breast care, etc. instead of just masking the symptoms with synthetic hormones and providing abortions. Merely giving them a prescription for birth control to treat everything from acne to facial hair is not my idea of “women’s health.”

            “Er… are you trying to claim there are no doctors or nurse practitioners working in Planned Parenthood health centres?”

            Let me put it simply: The average physician requires 4 years of undergraduate school, 4 years of medical school, and 3 to 8 years of internship and residency. The average nurse practitioner or midwife is 4 years undergrad and 2 years masters. Yet, PP allows all three to perform abortions (including surgical) unless there’s law opposed to it. When laws are instituted, PP centers magically disappear in different states…so I guess there really aren’t as many doctors performing abortions at PP than they would have you believe. If you want to talk about double standards…try getting any other surgery performed by an np or midwife besides abortion. I doubt you would…but you would still equate their “women’s health” expertise with that of a physician.

            “I’m glad to see you’re not one of those people who think that contraception and abortion are not part of women’s healthcare, even if they are the part that so many Catholics want women to be denied.”

            I guess I got you there! Guess what, I am one of those people. You’d be surprised just how many PP centers shove hormones at women without first looking at risks associated with increased estrogen levels. IT IS A KNOWN CARCINOGEN. Don’t believe me? Don’t believe me? Check out what the American Cancer Society has to say about it. I’ve taken enough toxicology courses to know that anything labelled as a “known carcinogen” is nothing but trouble. There’s a reason why women over 35/smokers should be worried about taking birth control. It is not a harmless drug. It is anything but harmless (unless you’re into blood clots, increased cancer risk, and all sorts of other stuff PP probably won’t tell you about…because you’re not in an “at risk group”). Don’t believe me or the American cancer society? Look up “YAZ Lawsuit.” I dare you. Also, try looking up what all the extra estrogen in our water systems is doing the ecosystem.

            “Thanks to extensive reading on more reliable websites than right-wing propaganda, I’m aware of the really evil campaign that various disgusting people have been running against Planned Parenthood, so I think I have my facts a lot more straight than you do! Particularly with your confusion about whether doctors and nurses who work at health centres are less qualified in their area than “your standard physician”.”

            What exactly are your “more reliable websites.” Sorry…I’m not buying it. Try reading scientific papers, history of lawsuits, or even reading up on PP’s founder. Also, keep in mind that there is such thing as “left-wing propaganda.” We don’t need an “evil campaign” to bring PP down…they do it to themselves with their substandard services, their dehumanization of women, and their history laden with all sorts of “great ideas” (like eugenics/racism).

            “You mean like the lying propaganda that not only got Congress to investigate ACORN, it got Congress to defund ACORN?”

            The problem with ACORN is that they approached their issue with a “means justify the ends” approach that was dishonest and unprofessional. They also made the mistake of biting at the hand that fed them. You can’t make your employer look bad and still expect them to keep paying you. And as they were provided with federal funding…making certain people look bad was probably one of the worst ideas they could have come up with. ALL is just telling it like it is…based on documented court proceedings. ALL has nowhere near as much controversy surrounding it as ACORN…so comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges.

          • http://thecatholicsciencegeek.blogspot.com/ Catholic Science Geek

            OOPS! I meant “ends justify the means.” Long day at school today…my bad.

          • http://twitter.com/yonmei Yonmei

            “Yet, PP allows all three to perform abortions (including surgical) unless there’s law opposed to it. ”

            Just as a plain point of fact:

            Early abortion (ie at 8 weeks or less, when 90% of abortions are carried out worldwide) is either a very simple surgical operation with very few complications, or a matter of two pills and clear instructions on how/when to take those pills.

            A surgical operation should be carried out in a surgically-clean environment and followed by a course of antibiotics: a medical abortion can take place at home, and usually does.

            If you feel that all women should be able to have an abortion freely and easily in their local hospital, I agree that would be better. But the reason this isn’t the case in the US is in part because of the insane US healthcare system which ensures many women must consider cost first and their safety second – they go to their local clinic because they cannot afford a hospital stay: and because of the prolife terrorist movement which ensures that many hospitals fear to provide abortions or to train doctors in how to provide abortions: and some Catholic hospitals are allowed to refuse to provide abortions and allowed to refuse to train people to carry them out.

            This is just plain wrong. No hospital should be allowed to refuse a woman an abortion; no doctor should be denied the necessary training to carry out an abortion. Specifically and absolutely, any hospital which professes upfront that it will not treat women who need abortions, is a bad hospital putting religious beliefs ahead of patient care.

            The situation in the US where a woman on Medicaid who is recognised as being in such financial need she has to get help from federal funds to pay for it, is not allowed to claim that help when she needs an abortion. If she doesn’t have access to a Planned Parenthood clinic who will perform her abortion and charge her on a sliding scale of fees that relates to what she can afford, she will end up either with a completely unqualified abortionist who may do her actual physical damage, or with one of the prolife-inspired butcher clinics that profit out of the desperate need of women in such poverty.

            I salute Planned Parenthood for the good work they do – all of it.

          • Anonymous

            Because there is not a single pro-life atheist? Your comments reek of rhetoric and uninformed slop. Try again troll.

      • Lily

        Actually, I saw a story on this on tv news earlier this year. It’s not some story made up by pro-lifers.

        • http://twitter.com/yonmei Yonmei

          That’s interesting, but “some story on TV news” isn’t actually a cite to reliable evidence.

          • Lily

            Yes, I was clearly citing a source (If you don’t understand sarcasm, I actually mean I was not citing a source).

            Actually, it was months ago that we knew about this, and I don’t remember what channel/show it was on. I’m sorry I don’t have a photographic memory. I can tell you it wasn’t on EWTN, if that makes you feel better

          • Alice

            Here’s a news article from the Huffington Post about the shredding of evidence, definitely NOT a right-wing news source and not made up: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/kansas-city-planned-parenthood_n_1085224.html

      • Ann Nonnie Maus

        The victims in this case are innocent children, who were abused by depraved individuals, and then swept under the rug by “health care providers” and elected officials with a legal (nevermind moral) obligation to protect them.

        Any attempt to cast Planned Parenthood as the victim here is what is truly horrifying and despicable.

        • http://twitter.com/yonmei Yonmei

          The faked videos compiled by Lila Rose, from the pimp school of James O’Keefe , sound like the source of your (false) ideas about Planned Parenthood.

          I have no idea what, if any part of this story from the video is true. I do believe a raped child has a right, the same as any other rape victim, to her privacy: the right to abortion if she needs it: the right to counselling, care, and support.

          Defunding Planned Parenthood won’t help child rape victims. Taking away their right to have abortions won’t help any rape victim. Forcing a rape victim to have a baby against her will, which is what seems to be the goal of much prolife outrage, is as or more damaging than the rape itself.

          The Catholic Church, a few years ago, disassociated itself from Amnesty International because Amnesty had decided to support women who had been raped to get abortions if they wanted them and to support them getting medical help if they needed it after an illegal abortion – and apparently the Catholic Church felt rape victims should be forced through pregnancy and childbirth against their will, and felt that a woman who got an illegal abortion and needed medical help, should be denied it.

          • Marc Barnes

            And you’re absolutely right, this would be a travesty on the part of the Catholic Church…if the unborn are not living human beings. For while I can only imagine it holds weight and water in normal society, the argument that because women will have a difficult time thereafter they should therefore be given license to murder doesn’t convince the Catholic. The only question that matters is the humanity of the unborn, you’re wasting your time trying to make it about anything else.

          • http://twitter.com/yonmei Yonmei

            Sorry, you’re right, I should remember that it is a waste of time trying to talk to male Catholics about the humanity of women, or convincing them that the humanity of little girls who have been raped matters more than forcing a little girl through pregnancy.

            True story: about three years ago in Brazil a nine-year-old girl was repeatedly raped by her stepfather. The rapes left this child pregnant – with twins. Had the child been left pregnant, her undeveloped uterus would likely have burst, killing her. There was no way she could have carried twins to term. The child’s mother took her to the hospital, where two doctors concluded the little girl needed an abortion to save her life – the only legal reason to perform an abortion in Brazil, where most abortions are carried out illegally.

            The Catholic Church explicitly said after the fact that the girl should have been left to die of a burst uterus, because the fetuses had a “right to life” – a right which, apparently, the little girl did not. The mother was excommunicated, so were both the doctors. Of course the rapist wasn’t excommunicated. Because, as you say, the only question that matters is the humanity of the unborn – the humanity of the little girl, or any rape victim, does not, to the Catholic Church, matter a jot.

          • http://thecatholicsciencegeek.blogspot.com/ Catholic Science Geek

            “it is a waste of time trying to talk to male Catholics about the humanity of women”

            Why is that? Because Catholics see humanity in unborn women as well? Or do these women not count?

          • Miss Doyle

            Only Catholics can be excommunicated Yonmei, I’m guessing the stepfather in this case wasn’t and therefore couldn’t.

            As a woman, I wouldn’t touch PP with a barge pole. They are not into preventative healthcare – they just prevent already existed individuals to see the light of day.

            I think women deserve better care than that.

          • Rugratmd

            As per usual, many people don’t understand the Church’s teaching about excommunication, and yonmei is no different than most who berate the Church for excommunicating someone. The reality is that anyone involved with the procurement of an abortion automatically incurs excommunication. The Archbishop was simply affirming this Church teaching.

            By the way, as to this child’s uterus bursting, that was not the issue. The concern was that her hips would not allow the children to be delivered safely for any involved.

            One other thing about the abortion industry. These suppliers of “women’s healthcare” are in many places aborting women out of existence. How’s that for irony?

          • Rugratmd

            True story? Can you provide a link or should we just take your word for it?

          • http://twitter.com/yonmei Yonmei

            Given your proclaimed indifference to the humanity of rape victims, even children, isn’t it hypocritical to be posting a video that pretends to care whether rapists get prosecuted?

          • Little Boy Blue

            “Raises hand in slightly anxious manner”
            Why don’t we focus on helping and supporting the victim, while showing that the act of rape, while terrible, is not the same as murder, (which is worse, I think).
            This could make some argue the “lesser of two evils” bit, but the act of abortion does not solve, let alone erase the act of rape. More often than not, if the victim does have an abortion, they end up regretting it. Maybe not right way, but they carry that pain for years.
            Also, we always tend to focus on the victim, and while we should of course, why don’t we dedicate the same ammount of energy to bringing the rapist to justice, and punish them accordingly?

          • mary york

            You are very misinformed. Many underage rape victims are coerced by their rapist/family/friends into having an abortion. It allows the rapist to go unpunished.

      • enness

        They cover up crimes against minors and their friends destroy evidence, and WE’re the ones who “bear false witness” by pointing it out? That’s rich.

        • http://twitter.com/yonmei Yonmei

          Ah, but did they? Or is Marc just gullibly reporting a lie? I cannot find any reliable news sources reporting it, which suggests it’s a lie.

          • http://thecatholicsciencegeek.blogspot.com/ Catholic Science Geek

            Most “reliable news sources” also completely forget to even mention Ron Paul as a current candidate for the Republican ticket…so by your logic…his very existence is a lie. Please.

          • Paige Kellerman

            In defense of Marc, I live in the area in question, and it was on the news several times….We Kansans have been following this issue for quite some time. The greater media just hasn’t given it the time of day…

  • Alexandra

    You know what this probably is? Minors having consensual sex with adults only a few years older than them. When they say child rape, what they’re doing is trying to make specific incidences of statutory rape sound much more serious than they are.

    The documents were most likely destroyed because it is routine to destroy patient files after a certain period of time.

    • AverageJoeCatholic

      Statutory rape is still a felony, consensual or not. And given the documents were under investigation for a very important pending court case, there is no reason they should be destroyed.


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