What Jesus Meant By Prophesying Many False Christs Will Come

What Jesus Meant By Prophesying Many False Christs Will Come February 27, 2017

In the Olivet Discourse or prophecy of Jesus, He said many false Christ’s will come in His name, so what does this mean?

Falling Away

There are so many false teachings today in Christianity that it’s hard to tell the genuine from the fake. The Apostle Paul warned Timothy, “Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared” (1st Tim 4:1-2). Since this was true of Paul’s day, how much more so is it today? Paul had already encountered another gospel, just as we are seeing other gospels today, and said, “if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough” (2nd Cor 11:4). It may sound like biblical teaching but in reality, if they aren’t preaching about repentance and faith, then it’s not the gospel Jesus brought (Mark 1:15). Mankind has been laying a manmade foundation for the last 2,000 years but “no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ (1st Cor 3:11). Even so, they are bringing another gospel and often a gospel that looks and sounds real, but it’s not the gospel that saves.

Who is the Christ?

The Jews had been waiting for thousands of years for the Messiah or the “Christos” or Christ, and when the actual Messiah came in Jesus Christ, they ignored the precious pearl of great price standing right in front of them and even crucified Him. On one occasion, “Jesus went on with his disciples to the villages of Caesarea Philippi. And on the way he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that I am” (Mark 8:27), so “they told him, “John the Baptist; and others say, Elijah; and others, one of the prophets” (Mark 8:28), so Jesus “asked them, “But who do you say that I am?” Peter answered him, “You are the Christ” (Mark 8:29). Peter was often impetuous and impulsive, but at least he got this right by telling Jesus “You are the Christ,” and indeed He is. Christ simply means “anointed,” and Jesus was the anointed One from God. Not “an” anointed one but “the” anointed of God, so He is Jesus Christ. That’s Who Christ is. He is from God and is God (John1:1). After many of Jesus’ disciples left Him (John 6:66), the Apostle Peter said, “we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God” (John 6:69).

For-many-will-come-in-my (3)

Another Gospel

The word “gospel” means “good news” and it is more than good news; it’s great news for sinners because Jesus came to give His life as a ransom for many who would repent and trust in Him (Mark 10:45), but if there is no preaching about repentance, sin, confession, sanctification, and desiring to live a holy life (not perfect), then you’re not hearing the authentic gospel. It’s another gospel, or really, no gospel at all as Paul wrote to the Corinthians that they “accept a different gospel from the one you accepted” (2nd Cor 11:4b), so even if it sounds genuine, if the need for repentance and faith are missing, so is the gospel. Jesus already had seen the false belief system of the Jews and rebuked them by telling them that their religion was manmade and said, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition” (Mark 7:9)! Today, many religions operate on traditions but they are not from God. Just up the street on a recent Christmas season, a large church inflated a giant Santa Clause who had an electric guitar, and the billboard said, “Come Rock With Santa This Christmas.” Wow. That was disappointing. Really? Rock with Santa? What about preaching for the need of repentance, a life of holiness, of confession of sin, and seeking first the kingdom of God (Matt 6:33)? If church is not changing you, you should be changing church, because the Word of God has the power to save (Rom 1:18; 1st Cor 1:18), but when the gospel is not preached, you’ve got another gospel and instead a “feel good about me” gospel of improving your self-esteem and using seeker-friendly methods to draw people into the church.

False Christs

When Jesus was giving the disciples the signs of His return, He said, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray” (Matt 24:4-5), and “many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray” (Matt 24:10-11), and “lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold” (Matt 24:12). Doesn’t this describe our society today? Many false prophets are leading many astray, indicating that they might be in the majority because Jesus didn’t say “some false prophets” will lead “some astray” but many false prophets will lead many astray, and interestingly, Jesus said when He returns, “many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness” (Matt 7:22-23). That’s why Jesus and the apostles gave so many warnings about false prophets, or really, “prophets for profit,” so Jesus wants us to recognize that “if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand” (Matt 24:23-25). The many who are being led astray might even see “great signs and wonders,” but who is the source of this power? It’s not of God because Jesus said a wicked generation seeks after a sign (Matt 16:24).

Conclusion

I have read about a man from South America who even called himself Jesus Christ and proclaimed that He was the Christ, just as Jesus prophesied, but most are cleverer than that. They imitate the genuine gospel with a gospel that looks, feels, and sounds the same, but being close is not good enough unless you’re playing horseshoes. We must contend for the faith once delivered to the saints, as Jude wrote (Jude 1:3), meaning it has already been delivered and it is the original gospel of faith alone in Christ alone as the free gift of God (Eph 2:8-9). Jude warns us that we must contend for the faith that has already been delivered because even in his day, “certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ” (Jude 1:4). This is why Jesus warned about many coming in His name, proclaiming that they have the gospel, but instead, they have another gospel, which in fact, is no gospel at all.

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is Pastor of the Mulvane Brethren Church in Mulvane Kansas. Jack is also the Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • What do you think of people who insist they are “apostles”?
    Are there indeed credible and reliable apostles?
    Or are Christ followers “disciples” instead?

    • Jack Wellman

      I see the apostles and the prophets as being the foundation, so it says it Scripture, so it seem strange, after 2,000 years to start laying another foundation of “apostles” on what’s already been laid. that would be a very dangerous building with other foundations laid further up. There are 12 pillars for the 12 apostles…so God would have to come up with new plans listed in Revelation…Disciples, yes…apostles, I don’t see it.

      • That’s how I see it too. Two other terms that give me pause are “evangelist” and “prophets”
        ………………………………+

      • Related what spiritual gifts still remain in modern times? ex. speaking in tongues.

        • pud

          Speaking in tongues….LOL Like the talking snake or talking donkey? What is scrambled inside your mind that allows you so matter of fact babble such nonsense? Proven nonsense?

        • Oobi de guma sta lanasi commie de vita da sanuluta.

          Anyone can speak gobbledegook.

  • pud

    Your “jesus” didn’t warn about anything…he didn’t write anything, say anything or do anything. There is absolutely no real evidence that anyone by that name and description existed at all. Your BOOK says that “jesus” said this or did that no different than the Harry Potter BOOK said that Harry did this or that.

    It is absolutely delusional to “believe” in a book that lacks ANY empirical evidence.

    It is absolutely delusional to “believe” in nonsense and absurdities

    • Jeff

      …and here’s old Pud the Troll.

      • pud

        Anything untrue in what I wrote? Calling me a troll is not an argument….try a rational argument next time to demonstrate how I’m wrong. GL

        • Jeff

          Poor poor little puddy – ain’t gettin the attention he craves.

          • pud

            Not an argument…you lose as expected.

          • Jeff

            “LOOK AT ME!!! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!! PLEASE LOOK AT ME!!!” cried poor puddy.

    • Wayne

      wahaha JESUS show yourself to pud as you are revealing yourself to muslims . Why dont you ask a muslim who now believes in JESUS and ask him if it is real ? Thanks JESUS do a new work in pud amen

      • pud

        Islam is the fastest growing demented delusional cult in the world. You see they are lunatics like yourself and easy prey for insane cult leaders to indoctrinate…just like yourself!

    • Mick

      Your arguments are grossly unqualified pud – I think you will find if you open anything written about history (i.e. Josephus and others) in the time Jesus lived, there is more “proof” that he existed, written outside of the Bible, than you probably have to prove that you yourself exist here and now…

      • pud

        You only demonstrate how grossly ignorant you are.

        Joshephus was eyewitness to NOTHING. None of your writings …absolutely none were by eyewitnesses. It is ALL entirely hearsay and made up stories by lunatics like yourself.

        Not one author exists that was witness to ANYTHING claimed by your goat herding religious lunatics. There were 10s of thousands of Jews running around who said NOTHING. There were Romans and historians and writers all of which said NOTHING of the ridiculous claims you crazy people swallow whole. Everything you cling to was AT LEAST a generation removed and most were several removed.

        No one wrote about all the zombies coming out of their graves. No one wrote about the sun standing still, earthquakes or any other supernatural nonsense you simpletons buy into. NO ONE.

        • Mick

          Haha, you want eyewitnesses? They are in the Bible – the book that you claim is no more authoritative than Harry Potter! Let me just say that if you give it a chance and read it instead of making wild unfounded claims, you may meet a man who is unlike any other.

          However, if you refuse, you will just continue to sound like you have no idea what you are talking about and harbor the obvious anger towards those who have different beliefs than you. You seem to be quite angry towards these “simpletons” – I wonder what caused this?? I pray that you can find peace.

          Jesus, please reveal yourself to pud and calm his anger. Amen.

          • pud

            “I’m sorry but jesus is too busy today” “please try your call again tomorrow”

            Name one eyewitness…lol

          • Mick

            Matthew, Mark and Luke – all eyewitnesses. They didn’t write their accounts during Jesus’ time on earth, but this does not limit or destroy their credibility. James, who wrote a letter was Jesus’ brother.

            Read your Bible, get some FACTS then come back to me…mocking a belief system purely because you don’t like it, don’t understand it or disagree is immature and actually makes you look like the stupid one…

          • pud

            WRONG! Clearly you’re an idiot. Try googling “who wrote the new testament”….then YOU get back to me! lol

          • Mick

            Nope – I stand by my statement. You base your facts on recent “scholarship” written by those such as yourself questioning the original scrolls authorship…recent “scholarship” was not there when these texts were written, so by your deduction, why should we believe that they weren’t…

            I’m going to leave this argument here since you obviously do not know how history works and use Google as your most legitimate source…there is absolutely no point arguing with you…

            I also stand by that you need to find another hobby or get help if you believe that tearing down and keyboard bashing Christians is going to make you as a human feel better…

          • pud

            Of course you’re leaving…you all do when shown to be idiot know nothing lunatic cultists.

            Standing by your WRONG statement only makes you a bigger idiot..lol

            Yep, I derive a ton of pleasure doing my small part to rid the world of your apocalyptic death cult.

            Cheers!

          • Mick

            You lead a sad and miserable life pud…

            You come on here and say how everyone is wrong – however you have not provided us ‘idiots’ with a correct statement either…how is anyone going to become as high and mighty as you are unless you show us your ways??

            I believe that people like you are what is wrong with this world…

          • pud

            LOL! You know nothing of my life but then again you believe the most absurd shit about reality! It is you and other delusional willful idiots that are the root cause of every evil.

          • Mick

            I don’t think I want to know anything more of your life…

            Putting all of this petty argument aside – if you are not able to show love in your conduct towards others and as you said “derive a ton of pleasure” from putting others down for their beliefs – you are not worth knowing…

            May God show you mercy…because you are going to need it!

          • pud

            Love given for free is valueless.

            I don’t care to know you

            I despise you theists and have NO respect for you. You lie to children. You are a threat to everything I hold dear in the world You are evil and stupid and retard human progress. There is nothing virtuous about you to even like.

            There is no “god” “gods” or any other invisible made up bullshit

          • Mick

            “Love given for free is valueless” – this very statement shows that you don’t know what love is…love always costs…ALWAYS…

            Not sure what you hold dear since you seem to despise “evil” and “love” – I don’t want your respect, I am not looking for that. You personally do not know me either and have just been lumping me with groups of “theists” and “lunatics” with your lack of knowledge about my “faith”.

            What is even your point? I think you have been reading too much Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris – of which I have read and done my own research to come to my conclusions regarding faith – as you have not…

          • pud

            I know more about your cult than you ever will.

            Only a lunatic could listen to Harris and Hitchens and still cling to “faith”

            “faith” is the most DISHONEST position anyone can take. It’s an admission of ignorance.

          • Mick

            No pud – you arrogantly think that you know more…

            Only an idiot listens to Harris in particular and devours every word he says as “truth” – Harris is an unqualified narcissistic nobody parading around and misleading others to thinking they have no control over their actions and that the thought of faith is bogus.

            As you have put your “faith” in the fact that there is no God – have you any “empirical proof” of non-existence? No…you don’t because there is none. You also use your “faith” or “anti-faith” as I call it to bridge the gap in your inability to prove the non-existence of God…as you believe that I do to have “faith” that there is…

            Everybody has “faith” or “anti-faith” – don’t believe Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris who will tell you that faith (as in Christian faith) is a myth – because that very belief, that very stance is a “faith” that God does not exist…

            oh, do tell me more pud about how you don’t have faith…

          • pud

            LOL!!! Yeah, facts, reason and logic vs. blind “faith” in no name authors of supernatural Bronze Age books! LOL!!!

            You make the POSITIVE claim that YOUR particular “god” exists…the burden of proof of claim is on you stupid. Can you prove that rainbow shitting unicorns DON’T exist? See how stupid you are?

            I do not “believe” anything. I accept certain propositions as probable based upon evidence.

            And by the way…I can absolutely PROVE that your invisible deity DOES NOT EXIST and cannot exist.

            Try me

            Define “god”

            Define “exist”

            Then I’ll SHOW you why you’re an idiot sheep

          • Mick

            So you like reason and logic…great! So do i…

            Please explain how one “believes” nothing.

            Positive or negative claims have nothing to do with it – you or I have not seen God, felt God or conversed or anything else with God. I deduce from what I believe to be revelation from God’s word that he exists beyond reasonable doubt. You deduce from the rejection of these same scriptures and lack of reason that he doesn’t exist beyond reasonable doubt.

            Don’t turn this around on me – because we are both showing “faith” in our position beyond what we separately believe to be reasonable doubt. Therefore we both exercise the same amount of faith in either direction. It has absolutely nothing to do with the person making the claim.

            You are making no sense so i just need to be clear…

          • pud

            I do not “believe” anything…I KNOW certain things to given levels of probability. I don’t have to believe if I know. duh.

            Positive claims have EVERYTHING to do with every truth claim! If you state something as real, fact, true etc then YOU have the burden of proof to demonstrate the validity of your assertion. That’s how it works.

            It’s NOT “gods” word….stupid..it’s the words of ancient ignorant MEN.

            Faith is belief without evidence dummy….I accept NOTHING without evidence…duh again

          • Mick

            And how did you come to know certain things? You believed them to be true. Do you have proof that 2 + 2 = 4?

            I disagree – I think we need to back ANY claim positive or negative – otherwise you have people such as you, with nothing really to say other than “why would you think that stupid” without asserting anything to the contrary…

            Ok so you cannot accept that there is no God without evidence – you must say that there MIGHT be a God – and therefore you would be an agnostic because you “don’t know” or you “don’t have enough evidence” – know your terms please…

          • pud

            Yes dummy…there is PROOF that 2+2 = 4…that’s entirely what mathematics does! Proofs!

            I demonstrate constantly on these pages all your contradictions and logical fallacies.

            For example…You and your cult make the claim that your invisible “god” is both omnipotent and omniscient …this is IMPOSSIBLE….If you KNOW the future you are incapable of changing it therefore not omnipotent. If you don’t know the future then you are not omniscient! FAIL!

            There is no such thing as “agnostic” The claim that a “god” exists is either true or false. You either believe or do not believe. Not knowing is the EXACT same thing as not believing

            Dude…you are out of your league here

          • Mick

            Disagree with you ENTIRELY…

            Not out of my league – you are just trying to assert authority which I do not respect as you are no better than me – a mere mortal created (or not as you “believe” – because hey you weren’t there for the proof!)

            You just said you can’t believe something without proof – however you “believe” or “know” there is no God without showing me proof…therefore you cannot know.

            Your description of my God as omnipotent and omniscient is true – my God is both. But you are flawed in the “knowing” that God is incapable of changing the future or intervening in situations. As your limited brain is only able to be in once space of time at once – you have no idea whether your future has been changed. God also exercises action and restraint just as humans do and has the power to choose not to intervene in situations. God is outside time – for he created it so you (and I – if I’m honest) are really out of our leagues in talking about something from a static perspective…

            You say you “know” these things, however vomit on a page makes more sense than your arguments…

            You must be lonely…

          • pud

            LOL! You’re pathetic.

            I just told you that I CAN prove that your invisible “God” cannot and does not “exist”

            Define “god”

            Define “exist”

            Then I’ll demonstrate that it doesn’t matter if you disagree with me or not…you are WRONG and I am RIGHT

            You just PROVED how stupid you are. A “god” CANNOT be both omnipotent and omniscient! I just PROVED that!

            Demonstrate what “outside of time” means…LOL!!!!!

            Without “time” dummy there is NOTHING! Even your “god” cannot have a thought without intervening TIME! Without time everything your deity thought would run together into a pile of mud!

            You just babble words of which you are totally ignorant.

          • Mick

            Why should I define these terms when “pud Almighty” knows all anyway…

            You did not prove squat pud…have not proved squat and will not prove squat the way you are carrying on…

            Where did time come from? In the beginning there was nothing – but God (don’t rabbit on about your Big Bang for you have no proof of that either)

            If you could understand God – he wouldn’t be God at all, he would be seen as pathetic because how special can he be?? The idea of a deity to be respected is one that you don’t and can’t understand fully – you have just shown that in your meaningless babbling!

            Speaking of time – this argument seems to be a waste of it since we have turned full circle and you don’t seem to want to actually hash anything out and are more interested in destroying humanity like the evil, twisted, horrible human being you must be…

            It must be tiring being right all the time – it must be lonely having no friends because of the fact you can’t bare anyone who thinks differently to you…

            The band Parkway Drive says that “the deepest circle of hell is reserved for betrayers and mutiny” – that is exactly what you are…for your sake, I pray that hell is not as bad as what they say it is…

          • pud

            You are IGNORANT and willfully so.

            The “big bang” is a FACT It was an event within the eternal cosmos.

            Tell me how your invisible “god” pooped it into “existence” from NOTHING…LOL…you are the only idiots who make these claims!

            Praying is the greatest waste of time imaginable

            I only want to destroy your theists not the rational world….just the delusional imbeciles longing for the dark ages

          • Mick

            Were you there for the big bang pud? Were there any eye witnesses to the big bang? You claim this POSITIVELY just now for a fact – just wondering if you can back it up with the evidence you require from me when I say that there is a God…I think it is only idiots who claim to prove that something comes from nothing without an indescribable being present…

            I am not ignorant – by your measure, so are you. I stand by my beliefs and facts just as much and just as passionately as you but you cannot take it – you cannot bear it…it makes your skin crawl…so much so that you just devolve into name calling and defamation…

            Wanting to destroy someone/s because of a belief system is a terrible thing to want to do…making you a terrible person without a heart…

            Think about someone other than yourself for once and you might find that the world is a better place for it…

          • pud

            LOLOLOL!! Your stupidity knows no bounds!

            Were you there when an invisible “god” spoke the universe into existence from NOTHING? LOL!

            Did you witness this “jesus” rising from the dead?

            We have mountains of EVIDENCE demonstrating that the big bang happened…you have NOTHING!

            No scientist claims the known universe came from NOTHING stupid..only you lunatics do!!

            Would you desire to destroy Nazis? …Well you theocratic lunatics are worse! There are evil ideologies and yours is one of them! You lie to children, foster discrimination, impose your will on others and if you were a real christian lunatic you would be stoning women and children and cutting out the tongues of heritics as well as burning witches still! You have a long track record dummy.

            You belong to an apocalyptic death cult. You revere human sacrifice. You lie to children. You believe things that are proven false and you VOTE which is what makes you dangerous and my mortal enemy.

            You are stupid…you don’t care to be otherwise. You resist truth, deny reality, praise gullibility and lower the IQ of the planet.

          • Mick

            Firstly – you do not have a shred of evidence which holds up to the scrutiny that you have shown to anything I have thrown at you…just quit on that because that is BS – scientists cannot know for sure the origins of the world – and I am not claiming to know either – I just have faith beyond reasonable doubt as I have explained before. Therefore you have “faith” that what the scientists say is true…

            I am appalled at how you describe Christianity – I am not proud of some of the things in our history at all that you seem to think that I embrace. Jesus is who I model my life on – therefore I do not wish to destroy the Nazis, discriminate, impose anything on others, burn heretics etc. Whether you believe Jesus was a real person or not, what is written about him paints a picture of the man that I want to be which is the total opposite of everything that you say I am (you don’t even know me – so don’t you dare judge me by stereotypes)

            You are ignorant of everything outside your preconceived stereotype of Christians and other religious people – AND YOU DON’T CARE TO BE OTHERWISE EITHER…

            You are trying to impose your will on me – at no point have I ever said that you should change your thinking (although I think you should!) So how is this any worse than what you say is the evil of the world…

            You are a clear, plain as day hypocrite, who is just a burning ball of anger towards anybody and everybody…

          • pud

            I have mountains of EVIDENCE and you have “faith” hahahhaha!

            You model your life on a moral monster myth stupid!

            Tell me…What would you think of a Dr. who had a cure for a horrible disease but only cured a couple of people for show?

            Then tell me what you think of this “jesus” who could have cured every disease but instead only did a bit for show

            Huh? Hello? See how lame you claims are?

            Do you endorse slavery? Your “jesus” did. How about all the 600+ laws in the OT that he ordered you to obey? Plan on killing any witches this weekend?

            You know nothing.

          • Mick

            You have zero evidence otherwise you would be flaunting it…

            Your lack of biblical knowledge is laughable…

            Not sure I’d waste my time responding as you are clearly in this to mock whatever I say and don’t believe Jesus existed…

            Jesus performed miracles to show he was God, not to cure everybody – while he could have.

            Jesus did not endorse slavery – slavery was a custom of the time.

            Old Testament laws culminate in the the only commandment that Jesus gives in John 13:34 – “Love one another as I have loved you”. This is the only commandment that I live by.

          • pud

            Google “Big Bang Cosmology” lazy. Hundreds of FACTS

            Google “gawd did it”…..NOTHING! lol

            If this “jesus” could have ended human suffering but chose not to then his is a MORAL MONSTER. hello?

            He absolutely did endorse slavery! You don’t even know your own stupid book!

          • Mick

            Bit like opening the Bible for hundreds of facts…geez you don’t even use the same measuring stick…

            If we are counting articles – there are probably just as many arguing that God did indeed create the world as there are for the Big Bang…

            Jesus did end suffering – on the cross. He defeated the power of sin and death, not our ability to sin…

            Jesus did not endorse slavery – give me one verse that says he did…

          • pud

            LOL..you are IMPOSSIBLY stupid!

            A million pages of nonsense by deranged people means NOTHING…if you can’t show it, you don’t know it!

            Here Jesus shows that he is completely comfortable with the concept of slavery. Jesus heals the slave without any thought of freeing the slave or admonishing the slave’s owner.
            Colossians, chapter 3, verse 22:

            Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, work heartily

            Explain to me the physics behind human sacrifice…vicarious redemption…more sick twisted brain disease you all suffer from

          • Mick

            I see your million pages of big bang nonsense and think the same – doesn’t make it right…you still haven’t proved it dummy…

            Know your context mate…

            Does it say “You must have a slave?” No it doesn’t – but if it did that would be condoning…

            Colossians is not the words of Jesus. They are the words of Paul written to the Colossian church. Paul does not condone slavery here – he speaks of work ethic. It is a slaves due diligence (as slavery was still a thing at this time) to serve his master – just as it is our due diligence to serve our bosses in our employment.

            Human sacrifice you say? I think you may be confusing Christianity with militant Islam for we do not (or definitely should not) practice that…

          • pud

            Nailing a guy to a cross and then claiming it’s a good thing because some mysterious spooky supernatural thing takes place is INSANE!

            Your “god” coming to earth to sacrifice himself to himself to create a loophole that he himself created! YOU HAVE TO BE INSANE to buy into this ABJECT NONSENSE!

          • Mick

            Nope not insane…and I’m sorry that we can’t agree on anything…

            I give you no medal or respect for making it your life’s work and goal to try and tear down religious people purely because your mind says that they are evil…

            From this conversation, it is clear that you stand up for nothing, you have no heart and you wouldn’t know love if it roundhouse kicked you in the face…

            You are quite confused and cannot stand that other people can have the joy that they find in following Jesus…and I am quite sad for you over that…

            You have tried you best to “beat” me at this arguing game that you play…but I’m still not down…I’m still not caving…

            I’m leaving this mud fight now because I don’t want to force my beliefs onto you if you don’t want them – you can think whatever you want and I am at peace with that.

            However, at least show the same respect for others…I know you won’t but at least I’ve tried to talk some sense into you…

            Have a great life – I hope you find it fulfilling…I know my life is, even while I continue believing the “nonsense” I believe…

            I assume that you will want to call me a dozen names to see me off – that’s fine, but know that what you say from here on out is wasted breath falling on deaf ears…

            May my God have mercy on your soul…

          • pud

            No…it is not my mind that says you are evil…it is the FACTS about your history, what you propose, what you insist others believe, your political actions etc. You are evil. Pure evil. Pure derangement. Pure Bronze Age superstitious. Pure barbaric, ignorant, deluded and deranged.

            I have no respect for willful liars to children, believers of fiction, deluded destroyers of civilization and enemies of reason and progress…that would be you and your kind.

            Run along now…go lie to some child about talking snakes and donkeys and how your loving god flooded the whole earth killing everything…because he loves you! LOL!

            LUNATIC!

          • pud
          • Mick

            Did not mention the gospel of John was an eyewitness pud – please reread my statement above…

          • pud

            NONE STUPID!

            The Gospel of Mark is anonymous. Early Christian tradition ascribes it to John Mark, a companion and interpreter of the apostle Peter. Hence its author is often called Mark, even though most modern scholars are doubtful of the Markan tradition and instead regard the author as unknown.
            Gospel of Mark – Wikipedia
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark

          • Mick

            WIkipedia is not a legitimate source either…

            You are showing your extreme lack of academic knowledge on the subject…

            And calling me stupid or an idiot or a lunatic is not going to rattle me…so you can just save your insults…

  • pud

    “Doesn’t this describe our society today?”

    No it doesn’t. In the Iron Age you would have been lucky to live into your 30s. War, slavery, cruelty, suffering was a constant companion. There was hardly a worse time in human history.

    This is how your delusional perceptions get woven into the lies you tell your flock and children.

    We live in the best times humanity has ever seen by orders of magnitude! You and your stupid lust for armageddon need to get in line…from your imaginary made up apostles to the psychotic talking to “god” on the subway…people have been calling for the end and using your death cult manual to try to validate their delusional thinking for more than 2000 years now. Guess what? We’re still here.

    By the way….how about doing an essay about humor in the buybull? What? There isn’t any? Then how do you explain humans love of laughter? Satan? Aren’t we made in the image of a “god”? Must be horrible being you

  • Sam Andrew

    Regarding Who is the Christ, to be fair Jesus of Nazareth did not fulfill the Messianic prophesies required to be the Jewish Messiah notably the Messiah was to bring peace between all nations, (Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9) and a world-wide acknowledgement of monotheism (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 8:23; Isaiah 11:9; Zechariah 14:9,16). This evidently did not happen and there is no provision, as I understand, in Judaism Messianic system for some kind of second coming to make up for these shortfalls. Also regarding the issue Paul’s warning to Timothy of false teachers in the end times, it should be remembered that Paul though the end would come within his, or Timothy’s lifetime, the conquest of Jerusalem by the Romans enhancing this belief for many for a time, and was more likely directed toward Paul’s contemporary rival missionaries, and in the gospels toward other Messianic figures (e.g. Simon Bar Kochba) than people 2000 years into the future.

    • Remember when Jesus was addressing in a synagogue?
      He said what He read was fulfilled.
      He stopped short on what would happen after He was crucified.
      He only read a portion not the whole Scripture in Isaiah.
      This should have been the signal to Hebrews there was more to come.
      In His ministry He was clear why He came to earth and what would be fulfilled later.
      He came to fulfill the Law and He did.
      Yes, the Bible indeed applies to us now.
      People fail to read context is where they get confused.
      While on the Cross He quoted Psalm 22.
      That should have been recognized by all in attendance.
      Hebrews in His day depended upon the Sadducees and Pharisees because they did not have access to the Scrolls.
      Jesus pointed out their errors many times and even called them hypocrites.

      As for our sad, pitiable PUD I blocked you once and you came unblocked. I will do so again. PUD there is indeed a Hell. You certainly have been given ample opportunity to hear the Good News here and other places. No one wants you to go to Hell except for yourself. It will indeed take some sort of supernatural manifestation to turn you around the rate you are going. I hope all here pray this for you.

      • Sam Andrew

        ‘He Said what he read was fulfilled’

        Here’s the thing, that isn’t really fulfilling anything, the messianic prophecies tend to have some very clear and concrete actions and events associated with their fulfilment that have simply not occurred. Not sure in what way he “fulfilled” the Law, I have read both Christian and Jewish perspective on that particular passage and must say the Jewish ones make more sense.

        Not sure I would say Jesus message was that clear as we have it recorded, the synoptic gospels are the most accurate, though not infallible, memories of Jesus early followers, and even in them when confronted about who he is in a spiritual sense he seems to avoid a direct answer e.g. when asked if he is the Messiah, ‘You say I am’, certainly never claims divinity and only rivals other religious figures in the emphasis of his teaching, rightly pointing out hypocrisy but doesn’t seek to undermine the existing religious order that much (“The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses’ seat. All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don’t do their works”).

        I can see how general wisdom parts of the bible may still be relevant, much like some passages in the Bhagavad Gita or Koran, however Pauls letters are so specific, addressed to specific churches, in specific places, in a specific (and very different) cultural context can be that applicable in terms of their injunctions on behavior, they are after all just one man’s opinion…it is unfortunate more works of James and Peter did not survive, I strongly suspect they disagreed with much of what Paul was doing.

        Anyway it’s fascinating how differently the same text can be read and interpreted differently, I think it has a lot to do with what in each individuals minds counts as being ‘reasonable’ a product of their upbringing and culture, sharing such differences can only help expand peoples knowledge.

        True one might say Mr./Mrs. Pud has made an idol of its own hatred, seems almost obsessive at times, like on its own personal crusade.

        • Jesus said He came to fulfill the law. He was the everlasting covenant He made with Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David.
          Peter said he agreed with Paul as did Jesus’ 1/2 brother James.
          I have no problem whatsoever with Paul.
          Nor do I his associates Luke, Barnabas, Mark, Timothy, and others.
          Read about the 7 churches in Asia. This is definitely for us too. As is the last few verses of John 17.
          I do not comment on Revelation as it is strictly forbidden.
          That is a book we all should read and with very careful study come to our own conclusions.
          With this I agree.
          Pastor Jack is one of the best.
          I highly suggest you see our dear Kjos Ministries watchmen on the wall, Berit and Andy.
          They are the very best apologists I know.
          Both born from above since 1971,
          Berit survived the Nazi invasion of Norway.
          Her father was interred in a concentration camp for aiding one of the home guard to escape Norway.
          http://www.crossroad.to
          You will be amazed at Berit’s research skill.
          Well, well researched.

          As for deluded and black-hearted PUD he/she/it has made it a mission to keep attacking Christians. Most especially Pastor Jack. That has stated so in the past on this site.

          A real pity. Look how much this PUD person is wasting of an all too short earthly life. PUD’s end will not be well if PUD doesn’t repent and turn. We should pray for a non-mistakable supernatural confrontation such as what happened to Saul on the Road to Damascus.

          I had an unforgettable and undeniable experience of my own. For some so prideful it takes this. For others just a proper upbringing in a Christian home.

    • Jack Wellman

      At least these things haven’t happened…yet! very excellent info to add to our understanding on this subject. Thank you.

      • Sam Andrew

        Indeed the ‘not yet’ is the key issue in both Judaism and Christianity, there is a curious parallel – the Jews wait, and wait, and wait…and the Messiah never comes. For Christians the Messiah came, yet the world didn’t change. I think such a state of perpetual waiting is not really a comfortable place to be for either tradition and contributes to a situation that makes it easier for apocalyptic preachers (false Christs) to gather and manipulate followings of desperate people who want certainty with their own ‘gospels’ as you have identified, too often these movements have tragic consequences.

  • John Mark

    When Jesus spoke at the beginning of the first century AD, he told us that false teachers will come. In fact, he said that ever since John the Baptist, violent men have been pulling the Kingdom of heaven towards themselves – they have been deforming it.

    Paul met with these people as he says in 2 Corinthians 12 and he called these false teachers “servants of Satan”.

    So, we don’t have to look forward to see these false teachers; they have been with us since the Lord was on the earth.

    Who are they? Well, since Jesus taught that there is only ONE Teacher, namely himself, ALL, who set themselves up as teachers, are false.

    They are the false teachers, whether they be ministers, reverends, priests, etc. They are false, not only because what they teach is necessarily erroneous, but also because they should not be teachers.

    Furthermore, these people, who have ruined the key to the Kingdom of heaven, are ante-Christs because they draw attention to themselves, ie they get in the way of an individual seeing Jesus Christ directly for himself or herself.

    Ever since Jesus was crucified, we have been living in the lowest times, which have been characterised by many, ever so many, ante-Christs, false teachers.

    Jesus will terminate them and their office with the destruction of Church, which is the social club of those on the Broad Way which leads to Loss.

    • Jack Wellman

      Very great points sir. It has been this way since Christ, as you said. I agree.

      • John Mark

        Thank you, Jack, for your comment. As I have said above, it is a new experience for me to receive two consecutive replies of support and agreement. Very rare for me, so thank you.

        I have allowed myself to wonder at times, but briefly, why Jesus came to the earth if, having been murdered, all we get thereafter is the lowest times. What was the point of it all?

        Fortunately, this moment of disloyalty to Jesus doesn’t last long because I believe that after the lowest times, what I call the Lieocracy, comes the Truthocracy.

        Hope the T. starts soon and in my lifetime and, perhaps, after the destruction of Jerusalem predicted by Daniel, I believe, to be this year of 2017.

        Will write about that if requested.

        • I understand. Good analysis John Mark.

          I do have to defend Spurgeon. He was a contemporary of Darby and Scoffield and was not an extreme “ultra” dispensationalist as they were. Did not buy into the secret rapture.

          I actually am a panmillennialist.
          I intend to persevere and see how this all pans out 🙂

          • John Mark

            Spurgeon can be defended, no doubt, as not being a dispensationalist, but I expect he was a panmillennialist.

            Surely, a panmillennialist is identical to an amillennialist, who has given up the unequal struggle to discover the meaning of Scripture in this realm of Knowledge?

            My criticism of Spurgeon is along the lines of ante-Christ, where the fine man stood in the way of people going directly to Christ for themselves in the Scriptures. What they believed had to be what had passed via the tongue of the great Spurgeon.

            I am afraid that he does not escape my criticism of being a false teacher since his followers saw him as the fount of Truth and not Jesus Christ.

            Jesus taught about the hireling to use old English, but what he meant was someone employed for their income, who was in amongst the sheep. I fear that Spurgeon like the rest during this lowest age fits that description of being salaried.

            Paul was so careful that his tent-making provided for his needs and, indeed, for those of others with him.

    • Great comment John Mark. Agreed. I am over the “end-times” gloom and doomers. Fact is we have been in the end times ever since Christ was killed for our sakes. Anyone such as the LaHayes make me ill. Darby and Scoffield others who have mislead so many on the “secret rapture” theory. Which side of the Throne they end up on I don’t envy their trip.

      • John Mark

        I am astonished to receive TWO consecutive comments, which approve of what I’ve written! This is NOT my usual experience.

        The Greek word, which is translated “last” (eschatos) can also, rarely I expect, mean “lowest”.

        I was delighted when I discovered this since I have never been happy about the “last times” because I believe that Scripture talks about more times to come – at least two.

        I John seems to be saying that the lowest times are the lowest because of the many, many ante-Christs, who have gone out into the world. This link makes complete sense to me.

        I agree with your dislike of Darby and Scofield. I have never been a rapturist although I am semi-premillennial. I mean semi since I am also postmillennial.

        For me, amillennialism is for those, who’ve given up thinking! Hey ho!

        With regard to the rapture, I am now of the view that it is the unbelievers, who get “raptured” upwards for the furnace between space and earth’s atmosphere.

        It’s an awful subject but Jesus did teach it when he said that the angels will pull up and burn in the furnace.

        At all events, I reckon that Darby et al got the wrong group of people going up.

        The NIV translators have to use “vulture” instead of eagle because they eat their prey on the ground, whereas an eagle takes it upwards and away – like the angels will do.

        However, the Greek is definite that the word means “eagle” and NOT vulture.

        I agree with your comment about Darby and Scofield and many others like Spurgeon, Stott and Lloyd-Jones. I was bowled over by the latter in my student years.

        Kind regards.

  • Monty

    hmm, I can’t agree with John Mark in some respects. Ephesians makes it clear that Lord Jesus appointed Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers. One of the qualifications of an elder is that he should be able to teach. I agree that way too many take it upon themselves to be pastors. We have lost the distinctions between the ministry gifts. We have also lost sight of the purpose of the “gifts” to the Church. It is to equip all who are born again for the work of ministry to a lost world and to other believers. At least one aspect of catholicism still infects the protestant church. It is the “pyramid” model of leadership. No wonder pastors burn out. They are carrying a burden that God never intended for one man to shoulder.

    I am convinced that Lord Jesus is coming back for a victorious and overcoming Church. We will see denominationalism marginalised and the true Body of Christ revealed. We will see Church government by elders restored. We will see all Christians growing in grace and the knowledge of the truth! We will see men of God who are cleaners, who work in hardware stores, who are teachers or other full time occupations. It is happening now in some parts of the world.

    I agree that the “last days” are now about 2000 years along! I refuse to get into speculations about the rapture and tribulation. Try telling the Jews of Europe in the 1940’s that there will be a great tribulation. They lived it. One day all will be revealed. Our heavenly Father has a “stethoscope”, not an entrance exam based on our doctrinal positions. He will check to see if we are alive! “He who has the Son has the Life….”

    • You make very interesting comments Monty and observations.
      I am reading just now this re: the true Gospel message.
      Archive for the ‘The Gospel’ Category from Lighthouse Trails Research:

      http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?cat=2329

      Certain Men Crept In By Roger Oakland

      Are You Born Again or Merely Trying to Imitate Christ? by Ironside

      Dear Pastor and Christian Leader: Have You Grown Careless About the Gospel? by David Dombrowski

      Actually Nicodemus misused this Greek terminology “born again” (as a physical sense) the Greek rendering should be “born from above” (as expressed by Jesus Iesous Y’shua in the Spiritual sense).
      I have a real problem with people using the wrong terms. They obviously need a refresher course in Koine Greek lexicon.

      The “American church” as an aggregate has grown LAZY and lukewarm. We are far from the Bride Church here in our country juxtaposed to the peoples of the persecuted Christians in the Middle East, Far East, and communist countries.

      Please see the difference outlined here:
      Biblical versus Cultural “christianity”
      http://www.crossroad.to/charts/cultural-Christianity.html

      Berit Kjos whom I have known now personally is one of the greatest Biblical Christian Apologist and Watchman on the Wall.

      • Monty

        There are a great many preachers and teachers of previous generations who have been used to restore truth that was lost during the Roman Catholic era. Andrew Murray, Watchman Nee, more recently Derek Prince and many others. I may well disagree with some of your points. So what? if anyone is born again, they are my brother and sister. I am united with them in spirit even if we have intellectual disagreements. Yes, there are 12 founding apostles but there have been many since. We have “Latinised” the word apostle and call them missionaries. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is as necessary now as it was in the days of Peter and John. I have grave doubts about much of what Pentecostals call the Holy Spirit. I am also well aware that being gifted does not mean that you are spiritual! The Corinthian church was “Pentecostal”. Yet they were immature and tolerated immorality. No fruit. I used to imagine that Pentecostals were free of religiosity. Not necessarily so. Derek Prince said that he had been a Pentecostal long enough to know what legalism is!

        Lord Jesus said that we should make disciples, not just converts. He came to give the dead life, not just to make “bad” people “good”. We need to get back to basics.

        • >> Lord Jesus said that we should make disciples, <<
          Total agreement here. I dislike labels. To be a follower of Jesus we must be His disciple. This is all that is necessary. No labels further need apply.

    • Here is a very spot on article of Pastor Jack’s. At our best we may be called students of The Word (disciples as a lowercase d)Followers of Christ Christos.

      What Does Being A Disciple of Jesus Mean?
      http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2017/03/10/what-does-being-a-disciple-of-jesus-mean/

      There is one typo, Jack meant discern.
      I know Pastor Jack also as my brother, mentor, and friend.
      The last Apostle was Saint Paul (capital A).
      Neither are there any Prophets or those who can speak in tongues. These Spiritual gifts are no longer given.
      The only Prophets will be when the anti is here.
      The meaning also of “take the Lord’s name in vain” commandment is to call oneself a “Christian” and take that title that dishonors The Christ.
      We all should consider ourselves “disciples” who can discern and learn from our Lord and Master through the Holy Writ.
      I know Elders in our church who are not disciples.

  • While researching the great heresy of the book and movie “The Shack” I ran across this excellent watchman on the wall, “Online home of Tim Challies, blogger, author, and book reviewer.”
    http://www.challies.com/

    How Jesus Called Out False Teachers and Deadly Doctrine
    http://www.challies.com/articles/how-jesus-called-out-false-teachers-and-deadly-doctrine

    More articles on Deadly Doctrines
    http://www.challies.com/tag/false-teachers