Spiritual Attacks: Who They Attack And Why

How do demons or Satan attack God’s people? What are their specific tactics? Who do they go after and why?

Who is Targeted?

Why do demons attack? What does the Bible say is the reason? May I suggest these six reasons to begin with? Demonic or spiritual attacks come from, studying the Word, teaching the Word, obeying the Word, sharing the Word, and growing in the Word.

For one thing, we’re not battling an enemy that we can see with our eyes since “we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places” (Eph 6:12). These demons of darkness are opposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ and will do anything they can to prevent people from being saved, and they will do all that they can to make you lose your testimony or not share your faith. Maybe you’ve noticed that frequently, demons will work through unbelievers to attack, insult, degrade, and persecute those who do believe, even though believers don’t attack non-believers because they don’t believe. At least it is rare, but unbelievers will say they don’t believe in God or Jesus Christ, but the truth is, what they believe does not change what is true, so demons are a real and present danger. Take Daniel’s example. Daniel had prayed to God but it took three weeks for the angel of God to deliver the answer to his prayer. Why?   The angel told Daniel that “The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia” (Dan 10:13). Michael, as one of the chief princes of the angels, said he had to come to ensure Daniel’s answer to his prayer went through. Apparently, they were fighting the “prince of Persia,” most likely a very powerful demon angel (SATAN?). Demons are simply fallen angels who choose to follow Lucifer’s rebellion and have joined with the prince of darkness to interfere in any way possible with the plan of salvation, and that includes attacking Christians…even if they have to use other people to do it (and they do!).

A Created Being

Whether you believe in them or not, demons are a real, but if I hear someone say that “Satan is attacking them or harassing them,” and then about a dozen others say the same thing, at about the same time, my question is, is it Satan or a demon? I have to think that they are probably going through spiritual attacks but it’s likely not Satan but his minions. That’s because Satan is not omnipresent like God is. He cannot be in more than one place at the same time, and it’s not like Jesus and Satan are in an arm-wrestling match! No. He’s done! He was defeated at the cross, so today, there are only skirmishes left from a defeated foe. As a created being, Satan can only be in one place at a time; therefore they are likely dealing with demons and not Satan since he most likely spends his time on the most effective evangelists, teachers, preachers, missionaries, but also world leaders and powerful businesses.

Angel-Statue

The Walking Dead

The Apostle Paul reminds believers that “you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience” (Eph 2:1-2), and those still not quickened by God’s Spirit are under this same influence, whether they admit it or not, so “even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God” (2 Cor 4:3-4). Christ-followers are the enemy’s primary target because we are the ground forces deployed behind enemy lines, infiltrating the enemy’s territory. But….we are fighting forces more powerful than we are, which is why we need the full armor of God (Eph 6:11-20). That’s because “we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly place” (Eph 6:12)! The demons focus on those who are entering enemy territory…bringing the gospel into the community, the town square, on the streets, into prisons, into the nursing homes, and just about any place that there are people, and that’s the mission of our church, however, demons will not waste their time on silent, underground, private-eye Christians who might look more like “pew potatoes” than believers who are living out the Great Commission (Matt 28:19-20; Acts 1:8)?

How they Attack

Demons would love to fill your head full of doubts. Demons will also try to persecute you, even using others to bring about railing accusations, false rumors, profanity-laced tirades, insults, name calling and flat out lies against you. The Devil’s name means slanderer, and that’s what he’ll try to do with your good name, but he and the demons will use others to do the same thing. The Apostle John writes that Satan is “the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God” (Rev 12:10b), so he is constantly accusing us of sin, 24/7, but tragically, demons may even use other professing Christians to persecute you over non-essential doctrines (tongues, the rapture, the millennium, etc.). If the enemy can get the church to fight…unbelievers will see no difference between us and the world, and listen how subtle they are regarding sin. The Devil whispers, “Go ahead, it’s not that bad, everyone else is doing it,” but then after you do sin, he accusingly and condemningly says, “How could you call yourself a Christian and do that!?” By the way, Satan is right. We are all guilty of sin since we’ve been saved. The difference for us is when “we confess our sins, God forgives us and then cleanses us from all of our unrighteousness” (1st John 1:9), but as Dr. Irwin Lutzer once said, “When Satan reminds you of your past, remind him of his future” (Rev 20:11). Christ-followers can say with all authority, they “have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death” (Rev 12:11). Even so, demons will try to make you feel hopeless, lost, depressed, without purpose, that you’re in the wrong place, stressed and distressed, and that God can’t use you, but remember the Devil is a liar, and the only time you can believe him is when he says he’s lying, so they will try to destroy your faith and testimony, because if they can, they will silence your sharing Christ.

Conclusion

There is more to come in a later article about how demons attack in specific ways, and ways that might be unique to you, but there is one thing Satan or the demons cannot do, and that is snatch us out of Jesus or the Father’s hand (John 10:28-29), because “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Rom 8:1), so “in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8:37-39).

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is Pastor of the Mulvane Brethren Church in Mulvane Kansas. Jack is a writer at Christian Quotes and also the Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

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  • pud

    Pure insanity part 2.

    Do “demons” cause disease jack? Do you get an exorcism when you have a runny nose? How do you feel about burning witches? You know you’re not supposed to “suffer a witch to live” as commanded by the “word”

    Of course you can clearly demonstrate the existence of these invisible creatures can’t you? I mean it’s obvious that invisible “demons” are running around all over the place whispering in everyones ears to wage war against the good angels right?

    All part of the all powerful creator of the universe plan right? Seeing as this eternal deity had nothing else to do why not a “Lord of the Rings” drama full of mythical beings and titanic struggles in some unseen realm?

    You don’t have the mind of a child jack you are seriously mentally ill. You are consumed by this cult and magic and a deranged perception of reality. You clearly need medical intervention if not psychotropic drugs. You are possessed and not in some “supernatural” way…you are possessed in a psychotic delusional way. I urge you to see a qualified doctor…you’ve gone over the edge now as is clearly seen in these recent truly insane essays.

  • pud

    No sense in pursuing the TRUTH is there jack? No sense understanding the ACTUAL evolution of your mythical church created “satan”…no, of course not…what would you do for a living if you couldn’t lie to children and perpetuate your sick cult?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8XQbqZUkms

  • pud

    Oh look! Actual history proving that your fantastical imaginary delusional creatures are all MADE UP PROPAGANDA by your sick early church cult! But don’t watch jack…it’s just demons trying to confuse you!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBoJFc1aQq4&t=8s

  • Carlos Santiago

    As one who had been a skeptic until I witnessed (along with 4 others) a case of demonic possession, it’s not myth or fantasy. Fortunately extreme cases are rare. The more common influences of evil; exhibit themselves in greed, selfishness, covetousness, lust, and hatred etc. . There are a lot of self serving, self help books out there and they all are a band aid. God must be involved in the treatment.

    • pud

      And you KNOW it was “demonic possession” how?

      Where do you lunatics come from?

    • Jack Wellman

      Thank you sir. Excellent observations.

      • pud

        No they are not! Delusional personal subjective claims by gullible non skeptical idiots doesn’t lend credibility to your psychotic rants of invisible forces invading bodies. Witnessing any phenomenon doesn’t prove whatever ridiculous cause some hack ascribes to it. If you can’t show it you don’t know it and you jack don’t know jack!

    • Doug Barron

      Indeed!

  • Doug Barron

    Indeed: NO one can snatch me out of Father’s hand!
    Once the adoption is made; Father will not un-make His agreement, covenant, word! I am in Him forever. Therefore; I must release my pride in me and underdtand the fullness of this truth.
    I love Father/Jesus so much the more because of this! I am His SON!
    He LOVES me! Shalom!

    • pud

      Total lunatic

      • Kyra Lynne

        Are you going to do anything besides insult people, oooor…

        • pud

          I do a lot beside insult. I challenge all of you to debate, to respond to my critique of your horrible death cult but you all hide, cower and wallow in your madness

          • Kyra Lynne

            Really? You jst insulted again. Get a life.

          • pud

            Too bad…grow up. Try making an argument to show that a word that I post is untrue or wrong and that you’re not a dysfunctional death cult

          • Kyra Lynne

            Why do you think we’re a death cult? Because we believe that God loves people? Because we believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world? If anyone is in a death cult, it’s you. If you believe in evolution, it means you believe that we all came about by random chance. That means that there is NO point to your life or mine, or anyone else’s. That’s pretty depressing.

          • pud

            Oh man…I’m dealing with an ignorant uneducated hayseed again…

            You revere a made up story about human blood sacrifice…that is SICK! You can’t wait for death so you can all go to your disneyland in the sky.

            Evolution is a FACT! A demonstrable FACT

            You’re the one with no point to your life seeing as it all ends in perpetual slavery kissing your made up deities ass for eternity

            I make meaning in my life like all rational people do..I don’t play make believe like you lunatics

            Tell me how you’re going to spend your first Trillion years! And then the next Trillion with your overlord who watches millions of people suffer for a million years so far

          • Kyra Lynne

            Jesus CHOSE to sacrifice himself because He loved, YOU, the very person who is trying to crush His name. If it weren’t for Him, you wouldn’t be here. Think on that for a second. He created you because He wanted to give you a chance to be His child. You were chosen. You are loved. Why is that so hard for you to believe?
            Dude. I don’t know much. I’m young. I probably don’t have half the scientific knowledge that you do. But I do know that evolution is Soooooooo lame. It has no backbone. Explain it to me please.

          • pud

            Nonsensical gibberish you parrot from the fools who indoctrinated you into the cult

            Demonstrate that any “god” ever existed, that any “jesus” ever existed, that anything you just babbled is verifiably true

            I don’t “believe” bullshit

            Evolution is the change over time of genetics of a population due to random mutation and natural selection…It is a FACT. A demonstrable FACT

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS62TkYOVGQ&t=1531s

          • Kyra Lynne

            I don’t think I can give you any acceptable evidence in your eyes. You are too caught in your own thinking. You wouldn’t believe the Bible. You probably wouldn’t even believe that I’ve seen God do miracles, would you?
            It’s a demonstrable fact? I can’t watch your video because of protected internet, but why don’t you give an instance that you have SEEM with your own eyes evolution happen. Give me a for instance.

          • pud

            Demonstrate any such “miracle” or “supernatural” phenomenon….If you can’t show it you don’t know it.

            Evolution is obvious when you see a dog give birth to a puppy that is a composite of traits from its parents. It has changed in minute ways…maybe longer ears. That is evolution. Over vast time scales those minor changes turn into huge changes if they help the creature survive and breed. So much so that new species form which can no longer interbreed

            There are dozens of actual scientific youtubes that will PROVE to you that evolution is a FACT and that NOTHING was magically created by an incantation from an invisible being…hello?

          • Kyra Lynne

            That is the most ridiculous thing that I have ever heard. Yes, a puppy is slightly different from it’s parents. That is NOT evolution. That’s just life. When have you seen a dog give birth to a cat? Yes, a dog and give birth to a slightly different dog, but it’s always a dog. Not an alligator. Not a monkey. A dog.

          • pud

            Well it’s ridiculous to you because you don’t know anything about anything. Parent genes define the traits of offspring. If a new trait such as longer ears leads to better hearing then that dog will stand a better chance of survival and reproduction passing along that favorable trait to its offsprings. Over time beneficial traits compound creating new species that bear little resemblance to the original pair.

            Dogs don’t birth cats…that’s just pure fucking ignorance on your part and proves you haven’t the first clue what you’re talking about

            If your slave masters didn’t keep you from the internet you can pull up entire fossil records of hundreds of creatures that demonstrate without any question this gradual transformation over time

            Or you can continue to believe in magic, incantations, talking donkeys and the rest of your truly ABSURD nonsense

          • Kyra Lynne

            Phony fossil records. It’s been proved.
            Hey, you know what, dude? I could call your beliefs absurd nonsense. Why are you so rude?

          • pud

            Oh really? Proved huh?

            First of all science doesn’t deal in proofs it deals in probabilities…so you don’t even know that!

            Secondly….demonstrate your “proof” that the millions of fossils discovered across the planet over hundreds of years by tens of thousands of trained scientists are phony.

          • Kyra Lynne

            I’l talk to you in the morning.

          • pud

            Sure…I’ll try to help you out of your mental shackles

          • Kyra Lynne

            I’m here, waiting for you to break my “mental shackles”. Roflol

          • pud

            If you genuinely want to be set free I’ll help you but if you’re going to be an arrogant ignorant flippant child you can piss off and wallow in your delusional cult at the expense of your critical faculties and long term success in life

          • Kyra Lynne

            Clean up your language, it is smelling up my room.
            Listen, Let me try to explain to you something. I AM trying to understand you. I HAVE listened to your arguments. I AM considering them. At least I’ve given you that. But YOU won’t even listen to me. YOU aren’t considering what I say. YOU seem to cover your ears every time I speak, then spew hatred and resentment every time you do. Why can’t you just listen to me? Why won’t you consider my arguments?

          • pud

            You have said nothing. You just state things…”beliefs” which count for nothing.

            Let’s start right at the beginning shall we?

            Demonstrate that any “god” ever existed/exists….seeing as this is fundamental to everything you “believe” show me how you KNOW what you claim regarding the existence of a “god” let alone your specific one which we’ll cross later. Make your argument and I’ll show you point by point why you are wrong. Don’t make “claims” or “assertions” and don’t quote your book…actually DEMONSTRATE that your claim that your “god” exists is valid.

            We’ll go from there…deal?

          • Kyra Lynne

            What is your definition of “demonstrate”?
            Actually. Hmmm. I have an idea. What’s going on in your life right now? How can I pray for you?

          • pud

            You cannot ramble all over the place. You either pick one specific topic or this will be a waste of both our time.

            We DEMONSTRATE the truth of any claim by formulating a “rational argument” A “rational argument” is one that has no contradictions, has incontovertible evidence and is logically consistent.

            You pick the topic and I’ll address that if you don’t want to start at the beginning with the existence of any “god”

            Don’t waste your time praying anything…my life is great and that’s off topic. Stick to the basic premise of your “belief” or we really have nothing to converse about

          • Kyra Lynne

            Tell me how, over hundreds of thousands of years, we could have evolved into what we are now? That’s just stupid. Do believe in the big bang? that some kind of chemical mixed together, exploded, and suddenly we were here?
            I’m guessing that you’ve studied science. I think most science refers to the cell as a “simple life form.” They say that, and yet, it is sooo complicated that men take years of their lives just studying it. It is complicated and beautiful and so much more diverse then anything the smartest man on earth could create. And yet, you believe that this tiny, complicated life form created itself? How in the world could it create itself to be so well-designed? How can it be so awesome without a creator?

          • pud

            See? You don’t know enough to even properly phrase the questions. Calling something “stupid” because you don’t understand it is called an “argument from ignorance”

            We evolved over millions of years. Life on Earth evolved over billions of years. If you really want to understand this process you have to do some homework.

            The “Big Bang” was not an explosion…it was an expansion of spacetime from a quantum fluctuation. Again, you cannot call something stupid that you don’t even have the foggiest clue about. Calling it an “explosion” proves your ignorance as no credible person who understands it would ever call it such.

            No. No one claims that cells “created themselves” Your ignorance on this is profound.

            The only people making absurd baseless claims are you theists who postulate that an invisible genie called for the universe via an incantation…magic! Tell me the physics of speaking things into existence. Don’t assert anything…demonstrate the physics behind this and HOW YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE.

            Again…you have to stop throwing shit against the wall hoping for something to stick

            PICK ONE TOPIC and ONE ONLY and I’ll show you…SHOW YOU why you are horribly misinformed

          • Kyra Lynne

            Actually I was pretty much just making fun of you with that. Sorry. Lol
            You pick a topic, since you know so much. I wish you wouldn’t be so arrogant. It’s annoying.

          • pud

            I’m not arrogant. I know what I know and can show it. Don’t confuse knowledge and wisdom with arrogance. The “thesists” that make unsubstantiated claims are arrogant.

            I already picked a topic….the existence of any “god”

            You claim one does “exist”….make you case!

          • Kyra Lynne

            That’s one topic that’s debatable. Rofl
            I have given you my case. I see what He can do and therefore that proves that He exists. You just won’t accept that.

          • pud

            No, you see things and out of ignorance or investigation ascribe the cause to your specific deity. Just like people “believed” disease was sent from the “gods” or thunder was the product of an angry “god”….why don’t you believe that stormy seas are the result of Poseidon or thunder the work of Thor?

            Here’s how we resolve this….

            You do 2 things and I’ll prove you wrong

            I’ve given this challenge to everyone who has ever posted here and NONE have taken it up…curious eh?

            1. DEFINE GOD

            2. DEFINE EXIST

            Do these 2 things and I’ll show you why no “god” can, has ever or will ever “exist”

          • Kyra Lynne

            Thor and Poseidon don’t exist. There is no proof of them. Man made them up so that they could have someone to blame when things got hard.
            Yeah, I’ve seen you do it millions of times. The reason no one takes it up is because they know that it’s useless. They know you are just going to go into a string of insults to make it look like you’re saying something important.
            God is, God was, God is yet to come. God created the universe. God was always here, even before the world was. God is a super-natural, being Who is all-seeing, all-knowing, and He is the One we have to deal with when we die. He is going to ask us to give account for every word we’ve ever spoken, every wrong we’ve ever done. He is going to ask if your name is in the book of life.
            God exists. He came to earth as a man (Jesus) and taught people how to be like Him. Then He died and rose from the dead after three days. Could you do that? NO, no human could do it. That was God, and He is alive, with me right now, keeping me from saying what I really want to say to you.
            So.

          • pud

            I know your mythology…you don’t need to regurgitate it. In fact if that’s all you do we’re done.

            You wrote…”God is a super-natural, being” Now you stick to this topic or we’re done…ok?

            1. Define “supernatural” and HOW YOU KNOW such a thing exists

            2. Define “being” and HOW YOU KNOW this invisible supernatural thing is a “being”

            You address these 2 specific questions, do not interject anything else, stay on topic, don’t regurgitate your mythology which I’m well aware of or we’re done

            Bullet point your replies or we are done

            2 things…just these 2 since you can’t seem to stay focused

          • Kyra Lynne

            Dude, obviously you don’t know much about Christians. You ask us a question about God and you’re going to get all or nothing. You can’t tell half the story. Stop complaining about my babbling when you keep doing the exact same thing.
            Oh and btw you never proved my other statements wrong. He ain’t keepin’ his end of the deal!

          • pud

            Last chance…if you want to explore this, discuss this, then we have to stay on topic. I’m not going to have 5 separate conversations going on. One does NOT have to “prove” that a proposition is false…it is ALWAYS the duty of the one making the claim to PROVE his claim.

            That being said…this is your final opportunity to engage me.

            You made a statement which I quoted. In that statement you made 2 claims. Validate those 2 claims. Show what “supernatural” is and how you KNOW such a thing exists and then define what a “being” is and how you KNOW your invisible undetectable deity is a “being”

            These are the only 2 things I will address with you going forward

          • Kyra Lynne

            The divination of “supernatural*: relating to or attributed to phenomena that cannot be explained by natural laws.
            The reason that I am havin trouble with explaining these things to you, is because you want to use science. God CAN be proved by science, I just don’t know enough to do it to your liking.
            Soo, anyway, since the definition says it “cannot be explained by natural laws”, how else do you want me to explain it but by miracles and the Bible?

          • pud

            You make the claim that the “supernatural” exists….I’m simply asking you to demonstrate how you KNOW this to be a true statement. How do you demonstrate every other proposition in life? If I said the “sky is blue” I can support this claim by measuring the wavelengths of light reaching our eyes. I can SHOW that the sky is blue. You do this everyday, all the time, in every facet of your life….you validate claims using logic and reason. So go ahead…demonstrate that the “supernatural” exists.

            If you can’t then you have NO valid reason for making the claim and you would be delusional for “believing” something for which you can offer no evidence for.! It would be as if I said that purple unicorns run around in herds on the moon….can I support this claim? Would it be valid for me to say that it’s true but I don’t have scientific experiments to prove it and expect you to “believe” it too?

            If you can’t show it, you don’t know it. You can make any wild ass assertion you want and claim it true…every stupid thing anyone claims would therefore be just as valid as your claim to the “supernatural”

          • Kyra Lynne

            Like I said, the definition of supernatural says that it can’t be explained. What else to you want me to say. You won’t believe miracles, you think faith is dumb….what else do you want me to say?

          • pud

            Demonstrate that any “miracle” has ever occurred. I don’t care about your interpretation, what the pope says, what some Hatian voodoo witch doctor says or believes….I care that you can DEMONSTRATE that any event that you lack explanation for is indeed a “miracle” and not simply something not yet explained.

            Explain for example the numerous experiments that have been conducted in hospitals comparing the outcomes of patients who have been prayed over vs. those not prayed over….funny but every study concluded that the outcome were BETTER for those NOT prayed for. Chew on that or better yet…look it up!!

          • Kyra Lynne

            I don’t get my answers from the pope, dude. I’m Christian, not catholic.
            God doesn’t always just DO miracles. He uses things (medication, doctors, etc.) to work His miracles. He doesn’t have to, but He likes to use His kids. That includes you.
            Don’t give me some junk about that being off-topic. It’s not.

          • pud

            “gods” little play things eh? SICK

            Show how you KNOW this….so far you’ve been able to SHOW absolutely NOTHING…you’re just wasting my time

          • Kyra Lynne

            God made His “little play things.” I think He should have the right to do what He thinks is best. And do you have a problem with being used for good? I don’t know why you would.
            I’ve tried to show you. I really have. If you want to ask me something, ask me a specific question. I’m tired of hearing and writing the same things. Ask me a SPECIFIC question and maybe I’ll have an answer.

          • pud

            Show how you know that we were “made” by an invisible supernatural “being” Do not quote your book, do not say you just “believe” it, do not offer up another baseless claim. SHOW! PROVE! DEMONSTRATE! that your claim of humans being “made” by an invisible undetectable “being” is true

            We’ve been down this road already….I asked to PROVE that your “god” is a “being” and to define what constitutes a “being”…you didn’t reply

          • Kyra Lynne

            *sighs* You expect me to prove something without quoting the source? How do you expect me to do that? It wouldn’t make any sense for the Bible to be lies. NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE IT!

          • pud

            It wouldn’t make sense for the Koran to be lies. NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE IT!

            It wouldn’t make sense for the Bagvada Gita to be lies. NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE IT!

            It wouldn’t make sense for the book of mormon to be lies. NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE IT!

            See how that works?

            There are literally HUNDREDS of lies and contradictions in your Bronze Age fable written by superstitious ignorant men! HUNDREDS!

            Ever see a talking donkey?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Rofl Did you ever notice that all religions and books that are supposed to back them up, all reference Jesus or in some way come around to the Bible? I’m not saying they’re all true, but yeah. That should tell you something.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Because there is no way that we could have come about by random chance, with feelings and hearts and emotions. Those things would have to of been made by Someone who has experienced them. Sounds like logic to me…

          • pud

            Well that settles it then! Since you can’t conceive of how the laws of chemistry and physics created life then it must be your particular invisible god! Well done! Checkmate!

            So who created the “someone” who previously experienced them?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Are you asking who created God?
            Oh btw you should read “The Collapse of Evolution.” That is if you’re not too afraid…

          • pud

            Scott M. Huse is a creationist who authored the book The Collapse of Evolution, which has gone through several editions and is still in print.[1]

            The book is a haphazard compilation of just about every bad argument for creationism and then some. The usual PRATTle is pratted out for our edification (evolution violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics; there are no transitional fossils; radiometric dating cannot be trusted, ad nauseam).

            It is riddled with factual errors. For example:

            Claims that according to evolutionary theory, humans descended from birds
            Also claims that evolutionists believe the duck-billed platypus is the evolutionary link between birds and mammals[2]
            Claims that human and dinosaur fossils have been found alongside each other, and this disproves evolution
            Cites a scientist who won the 1971 Nobel Prize in physics[3] as “winner of the Nobel Peace Prize in science”
            It includes an appendix titled “Scientific Facts that Prove Evolution.” The page is blank

            If you want to go here I can SHOW you that everything these lunatics spout is a lie! You are going down a terrible and dysfunctional path when you swallow this rubbish son. If you care to raise any points from this piece of stupid propaganda I will SHOW you that it’s a lie…try me

          • Kyra Lynne

            Lol aka you’ve read it and think it’s lame?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Go ahead, I’m listening (unlike someone else I know)…
            But of course you think it’s lame. You read it with a biased opinion.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Lunatics? Again with the insults. I am going down the path that lead to Heaven. Don’t ask where yours leads….
            Oh and I’m a girl. Don’t call me son.

          • Kyra Lynne

            No one created God. He always has been and always will be. It’s simple.

          • pud

            I’m going to try again to hand hold you and walk you thought this.

            This comment is again nothing but an assertion, a claim, a groundless baseless statement.

            You do understand don’t you that I could make a thousand such claims but if I failed to provide evidence for them you would be totally rational and justified in dismissing them…you do understand this right?

            You also understand don’t you that hundreds upon hundreds of other religious cults have and do make similar claims but with their chosen deities instead of yours? You do understand this right?

            If you fail to DEMONSTRATE that any “god” exists you MUST provide evidence of your claim. You cannot simply state something and expect to be taken seriously.

            Further…you also have to show that all the other hundreds and thousands of religious cults with competing claims are wrong and only your version is correct. You do understand this right?

            If you make the claim that ALL things have to have been created then you MUST demonstrate both that this is true and demonstrate a mechanism by which this creation happened.

            You cannot simply state things! You do understand this right?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Ob you’re so annoying. We’ve been through this, okay? I get it. You don’t think that what God does is evidence for His existence. I get it. Let go of my hand and let me walk truth, dude! I’m sorry.

          • pud

            Demonstrate that any “god” actually does anything! What don’t you get?

            Truth is not asserted it is shown!

            What a sorry existence you’re going to lead with all this nonsense and lies rolling around in your head.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Rofl I already did! You are going in circles!
            A sorry existence I’M leading? You’re the one with a life that apparently means nothing. At least my belief says that I’m here for a reason!

          • pud

            No you have not! Not once! Not at all! All you do is make claims!

            The muslims say..and their book states…that man was created out of a clot of blood. They state it, believe it and their book says its so. Is it true? Yes or No and how do you arrive at your conclusion?

          • Kyra Lynne

            No. The Bible says that man was created of the dust of the ground. And woman was created from the rib of a man. Did you ever notice that women have one more rib then men do? Hm. Weird.

          • pud

            The buybull says you should kill witches, gays, insolent children, adulterers etc….do you favor killing people you don’t identify with? The buybull says it’s ok to keep human slaves and trade children and that a man can rape a woman so long as he pays her father and marries her…are you in favor of that too?

            Men and women have the SAME number of ribs…You are so fucked up. Whomever has been filling your head with this shit should be in jail!!

            This makes the 3d thing you’ve been wrong about in the last 20 minutes!

          • Kyra Lynne

            First: got the references for those claims? I bet you don’t even own a Bible!
            Second: that’s it. If you aren’t mature enough to keep you language clean, then I’m done with you. It’s a waste of my time talk to you if you’re just going to do what you’ve been doing. Bye-bye.

          • pud

            So you’re going to “heaven” eh? Demonstrate that any such invisible realm exists….tell me what you’re going to do with your first 10 Trillion years there. Life has meaning because it’s finite just like a flower has beauty because it’s fleeting.

            You’re really not interested in learning anything so I’m going to have to say adios to you. If you decide you do want to learn something truthful about the universe and reality get back to me but it’s tedious trying to help someone so far gone

          • Kyra Lynne

            It shouldn’t have come out like that, but yes, I believe I am. You want to know what I’ll be doing? I’ll be worshipping the One true God, getting to know the prophets personally and walking the streets of gold. That’s what I’ll be doing. And you want proof? Read “Heaven is For Real” or other real life accounts of people seeing heaven. It’s there, you just don’t want to believe it. What do you call eyewitnesses? Are they trustworthy?
            Sir, I could say the same about you. You won’t consider what I’m saying. You’re aggravating me too. Get over it, you can’t even have a decent conversation with me.

          • pud

            “Heaven is for real” is a proven hoax. Is there anything that you’re not too gullible to swallow? Appears not.

            Kid says he did not go to ‘Heaven’; publisher to stop selling book
            https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2015/01/16/…heaven…/21855709/
            Jan 16, 2015 – The best-known is Heaven is for Real by Todd Burpo, a No. 1 USA TODAY best seller which was turned into a movie. The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven peaked at No. 46 on USA TODAY’s list. According to the publisher’s description of the book, “in 2004, Kevin Malarkey and his 6-year-old son, Alex, …

            How many books have been written about alien abductions…people even took lie detector tests….I suppose you swallow that too?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Whatever. How about the others? I supposed they’ve all been proven wrong. Of course they have…to you.

          • pud

            How about the thousands of people who claim to have been abducted by aliens many of whom have written books…do you automatically “believe” them? Why not? Why do you hold them to a high standard of evidence demanding proof and evidence but you’ll willingly swallow ridiculous stories from little boys claiming they went to some heaven place? Do you see how hypocritical you are?

          • Kyra Lynne

            *rolls eyes* You’re babbling again. I’m tired of this. You’re hopeless. It’s a good thing that God is patient, because you’re sure testing mine.

          • pud

            Sounds like fun for the first couple of trillion years. What about the next quadrillion years? Same thing day after day? You call that paradise huh? Suppose you picked the wrong “god” to “believe” in and it turns out that Allah is the one true god as a BILLION people “believe” and is written in a book…do you know what muslim hell is like for infidels like yourself?

          • Kyra Lynne

            It’s Heaven, dude. You’re not gonna get tired of it. Jesus says that we’ll be fitted with new bodies that won’t grow old and won’t fade away. Sounds like paradise to me.
            I already told you. Man invented Allah, my God invented me.
            Okay, I have a question for you, although I doubt you’ll answer it since you seem to shun all of my questions. If you’re right, what would that mean? For me, for you, for everyone. What would that mean?

          • Kyra Lynne

            What’s your definition of “heaven”? There is going to be no more tears, or sorrow, or pain, or suffering. What else could a picky guy like you ask for? No more death. Sounds epic. And I don’t use that word very often. There are very few things that are actually epic.

          • pud

            Here’s a list of hundreds of so called “transitional fossils” …fact is that every living thing is a “transitional fossil”

            This proves that the author of your book is a liar fraud and con man

            I can’t help you if you won’t do the work to help yourself

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

          • Kyra Lynne

            I never asked you to help me. I don’t need help. You need help. You need Jesus. I’m sorry if you don’t agree with that.

          • pud

            You cite a book written by a liar and fraud claiming that there are no “transitional’ fossils

            I show you hundreds of them

            Who is the one needed help? Who is one in willful denial of reality?

            Hint…it isn’t me

          • Kyra Lynne

            You. Are. Ridiculous. You say those are legit. You would NEVER say that they weren’t, because that would mess you up. You’re in denial of being wrong. If a Christian point of view is “proven” wrong then you jump all over it. But if you find a flaw in yours, you cover it up and tell the rest of your people to keep their mouths shut. True or false? Sorry.

          • pud

            I have no idea what most of this babble is.

            You wrongfully and ignorantly “believed” what you read in a propaganda book by a fraud. I directed you to actual evidence that you can see and study for yourself. I showed you hundreds of transitional fossils that prove that author a liar. You can research them yourself. Same with your going to heaven book that duped millions of you credulous people…another fraud that you eagerly lapped up because you want to believe what you want to believe evidence and fact be damned.

            There’s no point in continuing this as you are in denial. There is nothing I can show you, no evidence that you’ll consider, no proof of deception by your cult that you’ll accept. I just PROVED that both of your sources are frauds and still you don’t care.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Listen. Most of those fossils don’t matter to me much because I don’t even know what to do with them! I’m just a teenager! What do I know….well, besides what I know. Lol

          • pud

            First rule…don’t speak about things you have no clue about. Do your homework first before you just believe it. The fossils are there, they prove your source a liar. Nuff said…you could have demonstrated this to yourself with a little skeptical inquiry before you blurted it out

          • Kyra Lynne

            I never asked to debate on evolution. It was your fault. Stop whining.

          • pud

            Yes you did…You commented on it right out of the gate then made reference to a book by a con man fraud that I PROVED was nothing but lies.

            You’ve made 4 claims thus far in total ignorance which I PROVED were false yet you offered them as evidence for your delusional position.

            Despite my PROVING that your references were all lies you still persevere in offering nonsense to justify your untenable “faith” that last one being your CLAIM that you know someone who saw jesus.

            You are a dangerously gullible young lady and will pay a dear price in your life for being so easily conned

            Is that so? And you KNOW that this actually happened eh? Tell me…what did “jesus” look like? Was he tall and handsome like all the propaganda art depicts or did he look like the men of the times who resembled Neanderthals?

            Why doesn’t “jesus” appear to everyone? If it’s so important that everyone “believe” in him what’s the problem with appearing to everyone and ending all doubt?

            You are obviously an extremely gullible person. I called you out on 4 things so far and PROVED that they were lies and frauds which you fell for. Yet it doesn’t seem to phase you as you come up with yet another ridiculous example of someones psychotic claim that you without hesitation accept as true.

            You’re going to have a hard life being this naive’ and gullilbe

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay. I feel like you’re stalking me now. I already said goodbye to you.
            I’ll tell you the story. This person is a family friend. His heart stopped on the operating table. He died and saw Jesus standing before him. I didn’t ask what that looked like because frankly I don’t care.
            And why would Jesus want to appear to arrogant rude idiot like you? THAT’s naïve.
            I know with all my heart that God is real and that He is alive in me right now. I’m sorry you don’t want to feel the same joy.
            You never did give me the references to those claims you made about the Bible. You’re doing what you told me not to do…

          • pud

            You don’t KNOW anything…you are a totally gullible easily fooled and misled uneducated sheep. You BELIEVE stuff but you do not KNOW stuff and you obviously don’t care to.

            I wrote back to you here because the primary site isn’t loading for some reason.

            Here is a sample of the buybull verses you choose to ignore even though you must claim that they are the word of your “god”…I can provided dozens more to PROVE the hypocrisy and cherry picking your cult engages in

            (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

            As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

            What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?

          • Kyra Lynne

            You disgust me.
            And we’re also talking about the world as it was hundreds of years ago.
            What version are you quoting from?

          • pud

            LOL…I disgust you but your “god” who supposedly authored these verses doesn’t?

            It doesn’t matter what “version” it’s the same in all of them….by the way…if your book is the “perfect word” why are there so many versions?

            1. God himself will kill tens of thousands if it pleases him: 1st Samuel 6:19 in the King James Version: “And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men (50,070)”. Kill 50 000 men for looking at something?

            2. You can kill a woman if she seizes a man’s private parts without his permission: Deuteronomy 25:11-1: If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

            3. Perversity and human trafficking condoned: “Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse.” (1 Peter 2:18)

            4. Sex slavery condoned: “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.”
            Exodus 21: 7-8

            5. Divorce akin to debauchery: “Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.” (Luke 16:18)

            6. Cannibalism: “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son….” (II Kings 6:28-29)

            7. If your genitals have been damaged, stay out of church: “He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord.”(Deuteronomy 23:1)

            8. Incest and getting drunk with dad is no problem if the world is running thin on suitable DNA donors: And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father. [Genesis 19:31-36]

            9. Looking at a woman with desire is akin to adultery: “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” (Matthew 5:28)

            10. But incestuous rape is cool: And when she had presented him the meat, he took hold of her, and said: Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. [II Kings 13:8-12] But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her. [II Kings 13:14]

            11. Pray in private, and if you do so in church, do so quietly: Matt 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others.”
            12. If you offend God he will kill you: “And Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.” (Genesis 38:7-10)
            13. God smites women, children and often animals with equal gusto, he seems to equal evil and wrong doing by association, rather than by being guilty of the personal, individual act: “Behold with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.” (II Chronicles 21:14-15)

          • Kyra Lynne

            Whoa. Give me a second.

          • Kyra Lynne

            I never said that every verse taken out of context should be done. Did you know, sir, that in two places in the Bible it says there is no God? That’s taken out of context. The in-context version says “the fools say there is no God.” (Psalms) You can make the Bible say anything you want if you take it out of context.
            Different versions of the Bible? I don’t think this is a great conversation to have with you right now, but I believe that there is only one true version: KJV All the others either add something, or take something away from the original words. That’s why.

          • pud

            Tell me which of these verses where your “god” who you want to worship for a Trillion years outright slaughters people….over 20 million

            Killing Event Reference Bible’s Number Estimate
            1 The Flood of Noah Gen 7:23 20,000,000
            2 Abraham’s war to rescue Lot Gen 14:17-19 1,000
            3 Sodom and Gomorrah Gen 19:24 2,000
            4 Lot’s wife Gen 19:26 1 1
            5 While they were sore, Dinah’s brethren slew all the males Gen 34:1-31, Judith 9:2-3 2 1,000
            6 Er for being wicked in the sight of the Lord Gen 38:7 1 1
            7 Onan for spilling his seed Gen 38:10 1 1
            8 A seven year worldwide famine Gen 41:25-54 70,000
            9 There will be blood: The first plague of Egypt Ex 7:15-27 , Wis 11:7-8 10,000
            10 The seventh plague: hail Ex 9:25 300,000
            11 Firstborn Egyptian children Ex 12:29-30 500,000
            12 The Lord took off their chariot wheels Ex 14:8-26 600 5,000
            13 Amalekites Ex 17:13 1,000
            14 Who is on the Lord’s side?: Forcing friends and family to kill each other Ex 32:27-28 3,000 3,000
            15 Aaron’s golden calf Ex 32:35 1,000
            16 God burns Aaron’s sons to death for offering “strange fire” Lev 10:1-3 2 2
            17 A blasphemer is stoned to death Lev 24:10-23 1 1
            18 When the people complained, God burned them to death Num 11:1 100
            19 While the flesh was still between their teeth, the Lord smote them will a very great plague Num 11:33 10,000
            20 Ten scouts are killed for their honest report Num 14:35-45 10 110
            21 A man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day is stoned to death Num 15:32-35 1 1
            22 Korah, his companions, and their families are buried alive Num 16:27 3 9
            23 God burns 250 people to death for burning incense Num 16:35 250 250
            24 God kills 14,700 for complaining about God’s killings Num 16:49 14,700 14,700
            25 The massacre of the Aradies Num 21:1-2 3,000
            26 God sent serpents to bite people for complaining about the lack of food and water Num 21:6 100
            27 Phineas’s double murder: A killing to end God’s killing Num 25:1-11 24,002 24,002
            28 The Midianite massacre: Have ye saved all the women alive? Num 31:1-35 6 200,000
            29 God slowly killed the Israelite army Dt 2:14-16 500,000
            30 God the giant killer Dt 2:21-22 5,000
            31 God hardens King Sihon’s heart so all his people can be killed Dt 2:33-34 1 5,000
            32 Og and all the men women, and children in 60 cities Dt 3:6 1 60,000
            33 The Jericho massacre Jos 6:21 1,000
            34 Achan and his family Jos 7:10-26 1 5
            35 The Ai massacre Jos 8:1-25 12,000 12,000
            36 God stops the sun so Joshua can get his killing done in the daylight Jos 10:10-11 5,000
            37 Five kings killed and hung on trees Jos 10:26 5 10,000
            38 Joshua utterly destroyed all that breathed as the Lord commanded Jos 10:28-42 7 7,000
            39 The genocide of twenty cities: There was not any left to breathe Jos 11:8-12 2 20,000
            40 The Anakim: some more giant killing Jos 11:20-21 5,000
            41 The Lord delivered the Canaanites and Perizzites Jg 1:4 10,000 10,000
            42 The Jerusalem massacre Jg 1:8 1,000
            43 Five massacres, a wedding, and God-proof iron chariots Jg 1:9-25 5,000
            44 The Lord delivered Chushanrishathaim Jg 3:7-10 1 1,000
            45 Ehud delivers a message from God Jg 3:15-22 1 1
            46 God delivers 10,000 lusty Moabites Jg 3:28-29 10,000 10,000
            47 Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an ox goad Jg 3:31 600 600
            48 Barak and God massacre the Canaanites Jg 4:15-16 1,000
            49 Jael pounds a tent stake through a sleeping man’s skull Jg 4:18-22 1 1
            50 Gideon’s story: The Lord set every man’s sword against his fellow Jg 7:22 120,000 120,000
            51 A city is massacred and 1000 burn to death because of God’s evil spirit Jg 9:23-27 1,001 2,000
            52 The Ammonite massacre Jg 11:32-33 20,000
            53 Jephthah’s daughter Jg 11:39 1 1
            54 42,000 die for failing the “shibboleth” test Jg 12:4-7 42,000 42,000
            55 Samson murdered 30 men for their clothes Jg 14:19 30 30
            56 Samson killed 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass Jg 15:14-15 1,000 1,000
            57 Samson killed 3000 in a suicide terrorist attack Jg 16:27-30 3,000 3,000
            58 A holy civil war (it had something to do with rotting concubine body part messages) Jg 20:35-37 65,100 65,100
            59 The end of Judges: two genocides and 200 stolen virgins Jg 21:10-14 4,000
            60 God killed Eli’s sons and 34,000 Israelite soldiers 1 Sam 2:25, 4:11 34,002 34,002
            61 God smote them with hemorrhoids in their secret parts 1 Sam 5:1-12 3,000
            62 50,070 killed for looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam 6:19 50,070 50,070
            63 The Lord thundered a great thunder upon the Philistines 1 Sam 7:10-11 1,000
            64 Another Ammonite massacre (and another God-inspired body part message) 1 Sam 11:6-13 1,000
            65 Jonathan’s first slaughter 1 Sam 14:12-14 20 20
            66 God forces the Philistines to kill each other 1 Sam 14:20 1,000
            67 The Amalekite genocide 1 Sam 15:2-3 10,000
            68 Samuel hacks Agag to death before the Lord 1 Sam 15:32-33 1 1
            69 In the valley of Elah: Goliath 1 Sam 17:51, 2 Sam 21:19 1 1
            70 David buys a wife with 200 Philistine foreskins 1 Sam 18:27 200 200
            71 The Lord said to David, Go and smite the Philistines 1 Sam 23:2-5 10,000
            72 God killed Nabal (and David got his wife and other stuff) 1 Sam 25:38 1 1
            73 David commits random acts of genocide for the Philistines 1 Sam 27:8-11 60,000
            74 David spends the day killing Amalekites 1 Sam 30:17 1,000
            75 God kills Saul, his sons, and his soldiers (because Saul didn’t kill all the Amalekites) 1 Sam 31:2, 2 Chr 10:6 4 100
            76 David kills the messenger 2 Sam 1:15 1 1
            77 David killed, mutilated, and hung Rechab and Baanah 2 Sam 4:12 2 2
            78 God helps David smite the Philistines from the front and the rear 2 Sam 5:19-25 2,000
            79 God killed Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam 6:6-7, 1 Chr 13:9-10 1 1
            80 David killed two-thirds of the Moabite POWs and enslaved the rest 2 Sam 8:2 667
            81 And the Lord gave David victory wherever he went 2 Sam 8 – 10 65,850 66,850
            82 David killed every male in Edom 2 Sam 8:13-14, 1 Kg 11:15-16, 1 Chr 18:12, Ps 60:1 15,000 25,000
            83 Thus did David do to all the children of Ammon 2 Sam 11:1, 1 Chr 20:1 1,000
            84 God slowly kills a baby 2 Sam 12:14-18 1 1
            85 Seven sons of Saul are hung up before the Lord 2 Sam 21:1-9 7 3,000
            86 David’s mighty men and their amazing killings 2 Sam 23, 1 Chr 11 1,403 3,400
            87 God killed 70,000 because of David had a census that God (or Satan) told him to do 2 Sam 24:15, 1 Chr 21:14 70,000 200,000
            88 Solomon murdered Job and Shimei (per David’s deathbed wish) 1 Kg 2:29-46 2 2
            89 A tale of two prophets 1 Kg 13:11-24 1 1
            90 Jeroboam’s son: God kills another child 1 Kg 14:17 1 1
            91 Jeroboam’s family 1 Kg 15:29 10
            92 Baasha’s family and friends 1 Kg 16:11-12 20
            93 Zimri burns to death 1 Kg 16:18-19 1 1
            94 The drought of Elijah 1 Kg 17:1, Luke 4:25, James 5:17-18 3,000
            95 Elijah kills 450 religious leaders in a prayer contest 1 Kg 18:22-40 450 450
            96 The first God-assisted slaughter of the Syrians 1 Kg 20:20-21 10,000
            97 God killed 100,000 Syrians for calling him a god of the hills 1 Kg 20:28-29 100,000 100,000
            98 God killed 27,000 Syrians by making a wall fall on them 1 Kg 20:30 27,000 27,000
            99 God sent a lion to kill a man for not smiting a prophet 1 Kg 20:35-36 1 1
            100 God killed Ahab for not killing a captured king 1 Kg 20:42, 22:35 1 1
            101 God burned 102 men to death for asking Elijah to come down from his hill 2 Kg 1:10-12 102 102
            102 God killed Ahaziah for asking the wrong God 2 Kg 1:16-17, 2 Chr 22:7-9 1 1
            103 God sent bears to kill 42 boys for making fun of a prophet’s bald head 2 Kg 2:23-24 42 42
            104 The Lord delivered the Moabites 2 Kg 3:18-25 5,000
            105 A skeptic is trampled to death 2 Kg 7:2-20 1 1
            106 God’s seven year famine 2 Kg 8:1 7,000
            107 Jehoram of Israel 2 Kg 9:24 1 1
            108 Jezebel 2 Kg 9:33-37 1 1
            109 Ahab’s sons: 70 heads in two baskets 2 Kg 10:6-10 70 70
            110 Ahab’s hometown family, friends, and priests 2 Kg 10:11 20
            111 Jehu killed Ahaziah’s family 2 Kg 10:12-13, 2 Chr 22:7-9 42 42
            112 Jehu and his partner kill the rest of Ahab’s family 2 Kg 10:17 20
            113 Jehu assembled the followers of Baal and then slaughtered them all 2 Kg 10:18-25 1,000
            114 Mattan the priest of Baal and Queen Athaliah 2 Kg 11:17-20 2 2
            115 God sent lions to eat those who didn’t fear him enough 2 Kg 17:25-26 10
            116 An angel killed 185,000 sleeping soldiers 2 Kg 19:34, 37:36 185,000 185,000
            117 God caused King Sennacherib to be killed by his sons 2 Kg 19:37, Tobit 1:21 1 1
            118 Josiah killed all the priests of the high places 2 Kg 23:20 100
            119 Just another holy war 1 Chr 5:18-22 50,000
            120 God killed a half million Israelite soldiers 2 Chr 13:17-18 500,000 500,000
            121 Jeroboam 2 Chr 13:20 1 1
            122 God killed a million Ethiopians 2 Chr 14:9-14 1,000,000 1,000,000
            123 Friendly fire: God forced “a great multitude” to kill each other 2 Chr 20:22-25 30,000
            124 God made Jehoram’s bowels fall out 2 Chr 21:14-19 1 1
            125 God killed Jehoram’s sons 2 Chr 22:1 3
            126 Ahaziah of Judah 2 Chr 22:7-8 1 1
            127 Joash, the princes, and army of Judah 2 Chr 24:20-25 1 10,000
            128 God destroyed Amaziah 2 Chr 25:15-27 1 1,000
            129 God smote Ahaz with the king of Syria 2 Chr 28:1-5 1 10,000
            130 God killed 120,000 valiant men for forsaking him 2 Chr 28:6 120,000 120,000
            131 The fall of Jerusalem 2 Chr 36:16-17 10,000
            132 The Purim killings: God hath done these things Esther 2 – 9, 10:4 75,813 75,813
            133 God and Satan kill Job’s children and slaves Job 1:18-19 10 60
            134 Hananiah Jer 28:15-16 1 1
            135 Ezekiel’s wife Ezek 24:15-18 1 1
            136 Oh! Susanna Dan 13:6-62 2 2
            137 Judith is blessed above all women (for cutting off a sleeping man’s head) Judith 13:6-10 1 1
            138 The Judith massacre: hang ye up this head upon our walls Judith 15:1-6 1,000
            139 Mathathias’s double murder 1 Mac 2:24-25 2 2
            140 Mathathias and his friends slay the wicked sinners 1 Mac 2:44 100
            141 God killed Andronicus, the sacrilegious wretch 2 Mac 4:38 1 1
            142 A Jewish mob killed Lysimachus, the sacrilegious fellow 2 Mac 4:42 1 1
            143 God helped Judas Machabeus destroy the wicked 1 Mac 3:1-26, 2 Mac 8:5-6 800 4,900
            144 Judas and his unarmed men kill 3000 of Gorgias’s soldiers 1 Mac 3:44-4:24 3,000 3,000
            145 The Hanukkah killings 1 Mac 4:34-5:7 5,000 17,000
            146 The Machabees brothers slaughter the heathens 1 Mac 5:21-51 11,000 37,000
            147 Nicanor’s army: The Almighty being their helper, they slew above nine thousand men 1 Mac 7:32-47, 2 Mac 8:24, 15:27 147,002 147,002
            148 Jonathan and Simon destroy the wicked out of Israel 1 Mac 9:46-49, 2 Mac 8:30-33, 10:61 1,000 1,200
            149 Five heavenly horsemen cast darts and fireballs at the enemy 2 Mac 8:32-10:38 21,103 21,400
            150 God killed Antiochus with an incurable bowel disease 2 Mac 9:5-28 1 1
            151 Idumeans, traitors, and Jews in two towers 2 Mac 10:16-17 40,000 40,100
            152 Nicanor’s head: A manifest sign of the help of God 1 Mac 7:33-48, 2 Mac 15:1-35 35,000 35,000
            153 Aliens at Cades 1 Mac 11:74 3,000 3,000
            154 John burns to death 2000 in the tower of Azotus 1 Mac 16:10 2,000 2,000
            155 God sent wasps to slowly destroy people Wisdom 12:8-9 1,000
            156 Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:5-10 2 2
            157 Herod Aggripa Acts 12:23 1 1
            158 Jesus Rom 8:32, 1 Pet 1:1820 1 1
            Totals 2,821,364 24,994,828

          • pud

            Oh really….tell me how you know that the KJV follows the “original” since there is no “original”

          • Kyra Lynne

            WHO said there was no original? Not me.

          • pud

            Out of context? Show where…

            Killing Event Reference Bible’s Number Estimate
            1 The Flood of Noah Gen 7:23 20,000,000
            2 Abraham’s war to rescue Lot Gen 14:17-19 1,000
            3 Sodom and Gomorrah Gen 19:24 2,000
            4 Lot’s wife Gen 19:26 1 1
            5 While they were sore, Dinah’s brethren slew all the males Gen 34:1-31, Judith 9:2-3 2 1,000
            6 Er for being wicked in the sight of the Lord Gen 38:7 1 1
            7 Onan for spilling his seed Gen 38:10 1 1
            8 A seven year worldwide famine Gen 41:25-54 70,000
            9 There will be blood: The first plague of Egypt Ex 7:15-27 , Wis 11:7-8 10,000
            10 The seventh plague: hail Ex 9:25 300,000
            11 Firstborn Egyptian children Ex 12:29-30 500,000
            12 The Lord took off their chariot wheels Ex 14:8-26 600 5,000
            13 Amalekites Ex 17:13 1,000
            14 Who is on the Lord’s side?: Forcing friends and family to kill each other Ex 32:27-28 3,000 3,000
            15 Aaron’s golden calf Ex 32:35 1,000
            16 God burns Aaron’s sons to death for offering “strange fire” Lev 10:1-3 2 2
            17 A blasphemer is stoned to death Lev 24:10-23 1 1
            18 When the people complained, God burned them to death Num 11:1 100
            19 While the flesh was still between their teeth, the Lord smote them will a very great plague Num 11:33 10,000
            20 Ten scouts are killed for their honest report Num 14:35-45 10 110
            21 A man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day is stoned to death Num 15:32-35 1 1
            22 Korah, his companions, and their families are buried alive Num 16:27 3 9
            23 God burns 250 people to death for burning incense Num 16:35 250 250
            24 God kills 14,700 for complaining about God’s killings Num 16:49 14,700 14,700
            25 The massacre of the Aradies Num 21:1-2 3,000
            26 God sent serpents to bite people for complaining about the lack of food and water Num 21:6 100
            27 Phineas’s double murder: A killing to end God’s killing Num 25:1-11 24,002 24,002
            28 The Midianite massacre: Have ye saved all the women alive? Num 31:1-35 6 200,000
            29 God slowly killed the Israelite army Dt 2:14-16 500,000
            30 God the giant killer Dt 2:21-22 5,000
            31 God hardens King Sihon’s heart so all his people can be killed Dt 2:33-34 1 5,000
            32 Og and all the men women, and children in 60 cities Dt 3:6 1 60,000
            33 The Jericho massacre Jos 6:21 1,000
            34 Achan and his family Jos 7:10-26 1 5
            35 The Ai massacre Jos 8:1-25 12,000 12,000
            36 God stops the sun so Joshua can get his killing done in the daylight Jos 10:10-11 5,000
            37 Five kings killed and hung on trees Jos 10:26 5 10,000
            38 Joshua utterly destroyed all that breathed as the Lord commanded Jos 10:28-42 7 7,000
            39 The genocide of twenty cities: There was not any left to breathe Jos 11:8-12 2 20,000
            40 The Anakim: some more giant killing Jos 11:20-21 5,000
            41 The Lord delivered the Canaanites and Perizzites Jg 1:4 10,000 10,000
            42 The Jerusalem massacre Jg 1:8 1,000
            43 Five massacres, a wedding, and God-proof iron chariots Jg 1:9-25 5,000
            44 The Lord delivered Chushanrishathaim Jg 3:7-10 1 1,000
            45 Ehud delivers a message from God Jg 3:15-22 1 1
            46 God delivers 10,000 lusty Moabites Jg 3:28-29 10,000 10,000
            47 Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an ox goad Jg 3:31 600 600
            48 Barak and God massacre the Canaanites Jg 4:15-16 1,000
            49 Jael pounds a tent stake through a sleeping man’s skull Jg 4:18-22 1 1
            50 Gideon’s story: The Lord set every man’s sword against his fellow Jg 7:22 120,000 120,000
            51 A city is massacred and 1000 burn to death because of God’s evil spirit Jg 9:23-27 1,001 2,000
            52 The Ammonite massacre Jg 11:32-33 20,000
            53 Jephthah’s daughter Jg 11:39 1 1
            54 42,000 die for failing the “shibboleth” test Jg 12:4-7 42,000 42,000
            55 Samson murdered 30 men for their clothes Jg 14:19 30 30
            56 Samson killed 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass Jg 15:14-15 1,000 1,000
            57 Samson killed 3000 in a suicide terrorist attack Jg 16:27-30 3,000 3,000
            58 A holy civil war (it had something to do with rotting concubine body part messages) Jg 20:35-37 65,100 65,100
            59 The end of Judges: two genocides and 200 stolen virgins Jg 21:10-14 4,000
            60 God killed Eli’s sons and 34,000 Israelite soldiers 1 Sam 2:25, 4:11 34,002 34,002
            61 God smote them with hemorrhoids in their secret parts 1 Sam 5:1-12 3,000
            62 50,070 killed for looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam 6:19 50,070 50,070
            63 The Lord thundered a great thunder upon the Philistines 1 Sam 7:10-11 1,000
            64 Another Ammonite massacre (and another God-inspired body part message) 1 Sam 11:6-13 1,000
            65 Jonathan’s first slaughter 1 Sam 14:12-14 20 20
            66 God forces the Philistines to kill each other 1 Sam 14:20 1,000
            67 The Amalekite genocide 1 Sam 15:2-3 10,000
            68 Samuel hacks Agag to death before the Lord 1 Sam 15:32-33 1 1
            69 In the valley of Elah: Goliath 1 Sam 17:51, 2 Sam 21:19 1 1
            70 David buys a wife with 200 Philistine foreskins 1 Sam 18:27 200 200
            71 The Lord said to David, Go and smite the Philistines 1 Sam 23:2-5 10,000
            72 God killed Nabal (and David got his wife and other stuff) 1 Sam 25:38 1 1
            73 David commits random acts of genocide for the Philistines 1 Sam 27:8-11 60,000
            74 David spends the day killing Amalekites 1 Sam 30:17 1,000
            75 God kills Saul, his sons, and his soldiers (because Saul didn’t kill all the Amalekites) 1 Sam 31:2, 2 Chr 10:6 4 100
            76 David kills the messenger 2 Sam 1:15 1 1
            77 David killed, mutilated, and hung Rechab and Baanah 2 Sam 4:12 2 2
            78 God helps David smite the Philistines from the front and the rear 2 Sam 5:19-25 2,000
            79 God killed Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam 6:6-7, 1 Chr 13:9-10 1 1
            80 David killed two-thirds of the Moabite POWs and enslaved the rest 2 Sam 8:2 667
            81 And the Lord gave David victory wherever he went 2 Sam 8 – 10 65,850 66,850
            82 David killed every male in Edom 2 Sam 8:13-14, 1 Kg 11:15-16, 1 Chr 18:12, Ps 60:1 15,000 25,000
            83 Thus did David do to all the children of Ammon 2 Sam 11:1, 1 Chr 20:1 1,000
            84 God slowly kills a baby 2 Sam 12:14-18 1 1
            85 Seven sons of Saul are hung up before the Lord 2 Sam 21:1-9 7 3,000
            86 David’s mighty men and their amazing killings 2 Sam 23, 1 Chr 11 1,403 3,400
            87 God killed 70,000 because of David had a census that God (or Satan) told him to do 2 Sam 24:15, 1 Chr 21:14 70,000 200,000
            88 Solomon murdered Job and Shimei (per David’s deathbed wish) 1 Kg 2:29-46 2 2
            89 A tale of two prophets 1 Kg 13:11-24 1 1
            90 Jeroboam’s son: God kills another child 1 Kg 14:17 1 1
            91 Jeroboam’s family 1 Kg 15:29 10
            92 Baasha’s family and friends 1 Kg 16:11-12 20
            93 Zimri burns to death 1 Kg 16:18-19 1 1
            94 The drought of Elijah 1 Kg 17:1, Luke 4:25, James 5:17-18 3,000
            95 Elijah kills 450 religious leaders in a prayer contest 1 Kg 18:22-40 450 450
            96 The first God-assisted slaughter of the Syrians 1 Kg 20:20-21 10,000
            97 God killed 100,000 Syrians for calling him a god of the hills 1 Kg 20:28-29 100,000 100,000
            98 God killed 27,000 Syrians by making a wall fall on them 1 Kg 20:30 27,000 27,000
            99 God sent a lion to kill a man for not smiting a prophet 1 Kg 20:35-36 1 1
            100 God killed Ahab for not killing a captured king 1 Kg 20:42, 22:35 1 1
            101 God burned 102 men to death for asking Elijah to come down from his hill 2 Kg 1:10-12 102 102
            102 God killed Ahaziah for asking the wrong God 2 Kg 1:16-17, 2 Chr 22:7-9 1 1
            103 God sent bears to kill 42 boys for making fun of a prophet’s bald head 2 Kg 2:23-24 42 42
            104 The Lord delivered the Moabites 2 Kg 3:18-25 5,000
            105 A skeptic is trampled to death 2 Kg 7:2-20 1 1
            106 God’s seven year famine 2 Kg 8:1 7,000
            107 Jehoram of Israel 2 Kg 9:24 1 1
            108 Jezebel 2 Kg 9:33-37 1 1
            109 Ahab’s sons: 70 heads in two baskets 2 Kg 10:6-10 70 70
            110 Ahab’s hometown family, friends, and priests 2 Kg 10:11 20
            111 Jehu killed Ahaziah’s family 2 Kg 10:12-13, 2 Chr 22:7-9 42 42
            112 Jehu and his partner kill the rest of Ahab’s family 2 Kg 10:17 20
            113 Jehu assembled the followers of Baal and then slaughtered them all 2 Kg 10:18-25 1,000
            114 Mattan the priest of Baal and Queen Athaliah 2 Kg 11:17-20 2 2
            115 God sent lions to eat those who didn’t fear him enough 2 Kg 17:25-26 10
            116 An angel killed 185,000 sleeping soldiers 2 Kg 19:34, 37:36 185,000 185,000
            117 God caused King Sennacherib to be killed by his sons 2 Kg 19:37, Tobit 1:21 1 1
            118 Josiah killed all the priests of the high places 2 Kg 23:20 100
            119 Just another holy war 1 Chr 5:18-22 50,000
            120 God killed a half million Israelite soldiers 2 Chr 13:17-18 500,000 500,000
            121 Jeroboam 2 Chr 13:20 1 1
            122 God killed a million Ethiopians 2 Chr 14:9-14 1,000,000 1,000,000
            123 Friendly fire: God forced “a great multitude” to kill each other 2 Chr 20:22-25 30,000
            124 God made Jehoram’s bowels fall out 2 Chr 21:14-19 1 1
            125 God killed Jehoram’s sons 2 Chr 22:1 3
            126 Ahaziah of Judah 2 Chr 22:7-8 1 1
            127 Joash, the princes, and army of Judah 2 Chr 24:20-25 1 10,000
            128 God destroyed Amaziah 2 Chr 25:15-27 1 1,000
            129 God smote Ahaz with the king of Syria 2 Chr 28:1-5 1 10,000
            130 God killed 120,000 valiant men for forsaking him 2 Chr 28:6 120,000 120,000
            131 The fall of Jerusalem 2 Chr 36:16-17 10,000
            132 The Purim killings: God hath done these things Esther 2 – 9, 10:4 75,813 75,813
            133 God and Satan kill Job’s children and slaves Job 1:18-19 10 60
            134 Hananiah Jer 28:15-16 1 1
            135 Ezekiel’s wife Ezek 24:15-18 1 1
            136 Oh! Susanna Dan 13:6-62 2 2
            137 Judith is blessed above all women (for cutting off a sleeping man’s head) Judith 13:6-10 1 1
            138 The Judith massacre: hang ye up this head upon our walls Judith 15:1-6 1,000
            139 Mathathias’s double murder 1 Mac 2:24-25 2 2
            140 Mathathias and his friends slay the wicked sinners 1 Mac 2:44 100
            141 God killed Andronicus, the sacrilegious wretch 2 Mac 4:38 1 1
            142 A Jewish mob killed Lysimachus, the sacrilegious fellow 2 Mac 4:42 1 1
            143 God helped Judas Machabeus destroy the wicked 1 Mac 3:1-26, 2 Mac 8:5-6 800 4,900
            144 Judas and his unarmed men kill 3000 of Gorgias’s soldiers 1 Mac 3:44-4:24 3,000 3,000
            145 The Hanukkah killings 1 Mac 4:34-5:7 5,000 17,000
            146 The Machabees brothers slaughter the heathens 1 Mac 5:21-51 11,000 37,000
            147 Nicanor’s army: The Almighty being their helper, they slew above nine thousand men 1 Mac 7:32-47, 2 Mac 8:24, 15:27 147,002 147,002
            148 Jonathan and Simon destroy the wicked out of Israel 1 Mac 9:46-49, 2 Mac 8:30-33, 10:61 1,000 1,200
            149 Five heavenly horsemen cast darts and fireballs at the enemy 2 Mac 8:32-10:38 21,103 21,400
            150 God killed Antiochus with an incurable bowel disease 2 Mac 9:5-28 1 1
            151 Idumeans, traitors, and Jews in two towers 2 Mac 10:16-17 40,000 40,100
            152 Nicanor’s head: A manifest sign of the help of God 1 Mac 7:33-48, 2 Mac 15:1-35 35,000 35,000
            153 Aliens at Cades 1 Mac 11:74 3,000 3,000
            154 John burns to death 2000 in the tower of Azotus 1 Mac 16:10 2,000 2,000
            155 God sent wasps to slowly destroy people Wisdom 12:8-9 1,000
            156 Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:5-10 2 2
            157 Herod Aggripa Acts 12:23 1 1
            158 Jesus Rom 8:32, 1 Pet 1:1820 1 1
            Totals 2,821,364 24,994,828

          • Kyra Lynne

            Wow. I can’t even see that whole list. How long exactly did it take you to write it?
            This is life. People die. It’s the result of man’s rebellion against God. I feel like we’ve already been through this. I’m tired of talking to you.

          • pud

            It’s a list of the 24 million people your “god” directly murdered per the very words you hold in such esteem theoretically written or inspired by his almighty hand. They are the verses your teachers, parents and bible study never read, never share and never talk about. Your deity is a genocidal mass murderer and the evidence is right there in your book in his own words. It demonstrates the following….you are so indoctrinated into your cult that you can’t be reasoned with, you willfully ignore everything that doesn’t confirm your delusional world view or you are very stupid and not capable of critical thought.

            Fine that you’re tired of me…I’ll leave you be

            I pity you and feel sorry for you. You’re an incredibly naive’, gullible stupid young person and I assure you “princess” that unless you’re taken care of, find a stupid rich husband or live with your abusive parents the rest of your life you’re going to find the real world very difficult to manage having forsaken your critical faculties

            cheers!

          • Kyra Lynne

            You’re wrong. I have studied these verses. We don’t hide from these verses. We know the stories behind them. I bet you don’t. You probably just picked up that list somewhere.

            What. A. Jerk. I cannot believe that you would say that to a teenage girl. Obviously you have no morals, no scruples, and nothing but knowledge in your thick skull. Do have no shame? Just because you don’t respect Christians in general doesn’t mean that you couldn’t show some common courtesy for a girl who has nothing against you and has said nothing except what she believes, which you just happen to disagree with. I’ve never met someone so disgusting. I’ve tried to be patient and I’ve tried to love you like Jesus would want me to, but I think I’d better stop tying this comment so that I don’t say something I’ll regret.
            “Evolution this you know,
            For Charles Darwin told you so,
            Accidentally alive,
            If you’re weak you won’t survive.”
            Have fun with that. I’ll be praying for you.

          • pud

            So you’ve “studied” these verses and you don’t care that your all loving imaginary story book deity directly or indirectly slaughtered, murdered millions upon millions of innocent people, babies, even livestock!

            If you’re old enough to comment on my posts then you’re old enough to take shit that you deserve. If you’re too tender then you shouldn’t be here…stick to your teen groups of fellow dumbed down indoctrinated drones. If you want to play in the big leagues with the grown ups you had best grow a skin.

            Kindly don’t waste your time praying for me or anything including little favors from the almighty…try doing something actual to make the world a better place…nothing fails like prayer

          • Kyra Lynne

            YOU are the most immature “adult” that I have ever encountered. You have no self-control and you have nothing better to do with your sad little life then spit insults at people who don’t know as much as you. Why don’t you try to pick on someone your own size? How much you wanna bet that you’d back done if you were faced with a Christian who know more than you? I’d LOVE to see it.
            And, yes, I am going to “waste” my time praying for you and people like you. What are YOU doing to make the world a better place? Having online debates? They rarely lead to anything accept argument. You need to find something better to do.

          • pud

            I have lots of self control and I have a very full life thank you.

            I also have a mission…to rid the world of all religious cults and the priests who make their wretched living lying to children like yourself. Religious cults are the primary cause of all the suffering that’s ever taken place in the world so I could have no more worthy cause.

          • Kyra Lynne

            You have lots of self-control? Then you must be saving it up. I’ve seen 8yos behave better than you have. lol
            Sooo, what? Are you planning on murdering innocent Christian teens such as myself? Is that your “mission”?

          • pud

            Tell me…Would the world be better or worse off if the Taliban didn’t exist? How about if Islam didn’t exist?

            I would think that you must agree that the world would be far better without them no?

            Would the world be better off if everyone thought rationally or if large segments were perpetually irrational?

            If you took the time to investigate the history of your cult…of all religious cults….you would clearly see that when you, the christian cult, had the power and the guns and swords, you were no better than the Taliban

            I want to see ALL superstitions eradicated. I want a world governed by reason, logic and evidence.

            If we were a theocracy like we were for most of history, you probably wouldn’t live to be 30 years old. You would die of disease or warfare or be a slave to some religious sect. We would still be in the Dark Ages believing that demons were responsible for illness and that the sun revolved around the Earth.

            Religion poisons everything including young minds like your own

          • Kyra Lynne

            So you’re saying yes, your mission is to steal, kill, and destroy? And where will that leave innocent people? You say the world would better without us, but I have a baby brother. Planning on brutally murdering him too, simply because his family is a Christian? You’re a mindless, sick jerk.
            As Christians, we are told to, above all things, love our enemies, do good to those who hate us, and pray for those who persecute us. BUT. If the call comes to fight, then we will. We’re Christians, not Quakers. We are people, who have hearts and feelings and we will fight to protect our own and others. If you have the right to it, then why shouldn’t we? Why should we stand by and watch while thousands of Christians are being killed for their beliefs? Why, when we are the ones who don’t hate you, should we take a bunch of gunk from people like you who have nothing better to do?
            If you want to know what I, and the rest of us stand for, and you won’t turn to the Bible, then watch one of the following movies: War Room, God’s Not Dead 1 and 2, A Matter of Faith, or Woodlawn. We want to give you nothing but hope and love, yet you curse us. WHO would the world be better without?

          • pud

            How could you possibly read that into what I said?

            Apparently it’s easy for you seeing as you see only what you want to see and hear only what you want to hear.

            LOL…everyone of those stupid movies and books have been torn to shreds by rational critics…they are nothing but mindless irrational contradictory feel good BS.

            I don’t care what YOU stand for I care for what your indoctrinating cult stands for. LIES, GUILT, SHAME, SUPERSTITION, NONSENSE, MAKE BELIEVE!

            I don’t do make believe…I live in the real world not the oppressive one you got brainwashed into that suppresses science, learning, knowledge and that paints life as one giant puppet show worse than Lord of the Rings with all your made up invisible agents and invisible realms

            WAKE UP! You’ve been handed a poison chalice…don’t drink from it.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Have you watched those movies for yourself? I think that if you did, you’d see that I don’t stand for “lies, guilt, shame, superstition, nonsense, or make-believe.” You want to know what I stand for? I know you don’t, but I’m going to tell you anyways! LOVE, HOPE, THE ONLY WAY OUT OF SHAME AND GUILT, AND THE MOST REAL THING EVER ON EARTH! I stand for “every men created equal” and I stand for teens who are brave enough to face yucky people like you, and tell you that you are loved. You’re the one spewing hatred and loathing.
            Oh and btw, Woodlawn was a true story. I don’t care if you criticize it. That doesn’t change what happened or a second. Just because you can’t accept it, doesn’t mean that it isn’t true. Lives truly were changed. Hearts were touched by Jesus, hard minds like yours were softened. I’m so sorry for you. You must be very sad to live in such a dark world with nothing to lean on, except your head full of facts.

          • pud

            I’ve watched them all. They are nothing but mindless propaganda and they are ALL factually and provably wrong and deceitful. I can link you to a number of critical reviews if you like.

            It’s nice that you personally stand for those values but your cult doesn’t and you do not need to belong to a cult to hold those noble values.

            There is no historical evidence for any invisible “jesus”…none. It’s a made up storybook character. You should really do some research on this and the origins of “god” belief. You would find clearly that they are all made up. All contrived and all products of an ignorant savage age.

            I lean on reason and it’s served me very well thank you. I don’t need to pretend things. I prefer reality with all its warts and pleasures, pain and joy just the way it really is.

            I don’t need a cult to be happy nor do I need to delude myself with fairytales

          • Kyra Lynne

            Sorry, I don’t believe you. Why would someone like you watch them? I don’t care about critical reviews. That’s just dumb. ANYONE can say ANYTHING they like and be called a “critic.” There really isn’t any point to it.
            Have you ever came to a real Christian church? We all stand on those things. We are pro-life, pro-love, and pro-hope. And yes, to truly stand on these things you DO have to be a Christian. Jesus is the author of life, so how can you be pro-life and not believe in Him? Jesus is the author of hope, because if He hadn’t died for our sins then there wouldn’t be any hope. If He hadn’t of taught us how to love, then we just wouldn’t. How can you truly love someone and still say to them that they came about by accident, as in the big bang?
            And when you are in pain, when dark times come, how does reason help you? Does it give you hope? Does it give you lasting joy to know stuff?

          • pud

            I watch them so that I am informed and can intelligently speak on them unlike you whose head remains firmly in the sand with your blinders on unwilling to be a critical thinker who evaluates ALL the information rationally.

            Tell me what makes a “real” christian church vs. a fake one? How do you KNOW? Key word here as in everything is KNOW! Not believe, not makebelieve…actually KNOW.

            The most sick thing about your cult is this reverence for HUMAN BLOOD SACRIFICE…it is gross and sick and any “god” who would require it is psychotic.

            Also…consider…your “jesus” is “god” right? So “god” sent himself as a sacrifice to himself for a situation he himself created! How stupid is that?

            People loved long before slavery condoning “jesus” showed up.

            See how absurd everything you write is when critically thought about?

          • Kyra Lynne

            A real Christian? A real Christian has committed his life to God. A real Christian loves his enemies and forgives even as Christ has forgiven him. A real Christian believes that Jesus died and rose again.
            So, you have a problem with the fact that God, who made the earth, came down to fix our problems? It wasn’t His fault. It was ours. And the “blood sacrifice”? Yeah, it’s gross. But He did it for you. He did it so that we wouldn’t have to live in our sins the rest of our lives. And He didn’t stay dead anyway. He came back to life! Sounds pretty awesome to me! He didn’t require a sacrifice from you, so why are you whining about it? YOU didn’t die in agony on that cross. He did it so that you wouldn’t have to, in a manner of speaking. Good grief. Stop complaining that Jesus took your pain and endured it Himself. Would you rather He didn’t?

          • pud

            I really can’t continue this with you….you’re not rational, can’t follow a train of thought, can’t stay on one topic….ALL YOU DO is make claims.

            I don’t care what you BELIEVE I care about what is TRUE! as should you.

            What is a “sacrifice”? I’ll tell you…it is the irrevocable LOSS of something

            Is your “jesus” dead and gone or alive?

            You would say he’s alive

            If he’s alive then nothing was lost so there was no “sacrifice” At worst it was a bad weekend.

            No all powerful all loving all knowing deity would require a human sacrifice to satisfy whatever issue he was having. That is absolutely disgusting, degenerate and psychotic

            I’m sorry but you’re a stupid, ignorant child and this is going nowhere. You KNOW nothing and don’t care to. You can’t or won’t think critically, you don’t care about evidence, you want to wallow in your stupid death cult talking to invisible creatures in some make believe realm for which you can offer NO real tangible evidence for. You’re content with being indoctrinated and blissful in your fantasy world

            Good luck with that

          • Kyra Lynne

            You say it was nothing, since He rose again? That’s like dumb. What would it amount to if He had stayed dead. The point of Him dying and rising again was to defeat evil (Satan, the devil, Lucifer, or whatever else you want to call him), and evil’s base is death. By rising from the dead, He defeated Satan and death and showed that there was a way to Heaven. A bad weekend? Sounds to me like the most EPIC weekend ever! Too bad I wasn’t around to see the priests faces when they found out that His body was gone. I would have loved to see Doubting-Thomas’ face when Jesus told him to feel the nail-wounds in His hands. I would have loved to be able to lay eyes on the One who has given me true life.

          • pud

            Here are all the critical flaws in your thinking. Ponder them.

            1. “god made the earth”…NO this is untrue. Everything in genesis is provably wrong! This is an ignorant assumption and claim for which you can demonstrate NO evidence.

            2. “it was our fault” …NO..your “god” is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient therefore he had to KNOW how this would all play out. Your mythical adam and eve had NO knowledge of good and evil per your book…they could not have disobeyed because they could not possibly know better per your book. Your “god” supposedly made them which implies he wired their brains..installed the programming if you will so that they could only do as they were instructed. They had no peers, no teachers, no books, nothing that wasn’t planted in their heads by your “god”…SO…your “god” was entirely responsible for every act word and deed they would have done. 100% responsible. To hold every generation responsible for the horribly crime of seeking knowledge and being deceived by a serpent that your “god” also created and had to know about is SICK, DERANGED, DELUSIONAL and DUMB!

            3. “gods” by definition DO NOT HAVE NEEDS! They cannot want, desire, miss, long for, crave, wish or any other mortal human failing. The are ALL POWERFUL by DEFINITION so they cannot be subject to human desires…this in itself PROVES that all “gods” are created by men in the image of MEN!

            4. Human blood sacrifice cannot EVER be condoned. It is sick and perverted to revere such things. Would you honor the Aztecs who offered up human sacrifices so the sun would rise? It’s the same thing! An all powerful all loving all knowing “god” could have done a thousand things differently to achieve his goal ….but “gods” do not have goals! Goals imply lacking and “gods” cannot lack by DEFINITION!

            Now grow up, wake up, do the homework and stop being a gullible dumb child victim to this horrible apocalyptic death cult you’ve been indoctrinated into!

            THINK!

          • Kyra Lynne

            Wow. We’ve been through this SOOO many times, I think you must have short-term memory loss.
            1. God made the earth–genesis
            2. God told them that they would die if they ate the fruit. Satan lied to them and they believed it, like so many other people in the world today.
            3. God became a man as Jesus, therefore, although He had the ability to do miracles, as He was still God, He could still feel the pain of being a man in a world full of hurt.
            4. God sacrificed Himself. He didn’t ask us to do it for ourselves. Before Jesus died, Jews offered animal sacrifices to condone their sins. But after Jesus came, they/we don’t have to anymore.
            Jesus loves you, and I’d stop fighting it if I were you. Just sayin.

          • pud

            Whatever…good bye

          • Kyra Lynne

            Bye!…Finally. I’ll be praying for you.

          • pud

            Bye…be sure to read all my comments on Christian Crier. If you persist you can fight your way out of this horrible death cult you’ve been indoctrinated into. You’ll find the universe a much more interesting and beautiful place from the vantage point of reality and not fictional fairytales

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay, I will. But how would the world be more beautiful to me then? If I’m thinking that it came about by random chance and not by a loving creator, then how would that be any better? Idk

          • pud

            I want you to watch a youtube documentary called “A history of god” If you can directly link to it here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJkNs512Lsk&t=1432s

            You can also watch another documentary called “History of the Devil” Here’s that link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIN6NnxPsuQ

            The best documentary you can watch is called “History of Christianity” Here’s that link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKOoPcHxPhU

            The reason you have to watch these is 1. to continue to converse with me and 2. so that you can truly see how all this supernatural nonsense you’ve hitched your wagon to is MAN MADE. It is fable and not even an original fable as it all is derived from previous Greek and Persian and Pagan cults

            If you refuse to truly understand the actual history and evolution of your and all religious cults you won’t ever understand why living in reality is superior to living in a made up, make believe cult fashioned around a dysfunctional, false, contradictory book.

            You really don’t believe in any “god” you believe in a Book! If you want to know how this phenomenon and all its myths arrived you have to educate yourself with actual historical fact and not the mindless propaganda you’ve been fed all your young life.

            It’s a waste of my time carrying on with you if you’re entrenched in your wrong misguided thinking and adamant about not being a critical thinker. You have to understand how this all evolved to really KNOW that what you currently “believe” is 100% wrong and damaging to your future

            Reality is amazing! Make believe is a lie.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okaaay. We’ll see. Idk Remember the last time you posted a video?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Soo, you do this often??

          • pud

            All the time…every ridiculous essay he writes I dismantle and SHOW how irrational and incorrect it is.

            If you have any idea of continuing this with me I have one rule that you must honor or I will not reply

            You ask or state ONE and only ONE singular topic, subject, concern, question etc

            Only one until it is resolved. If you wander off…start babbling irrelevant stuff…I will not reply

            I appreciate that you are open minded enough to engage me but I won’t ramble over nonsense with you. I’ll directly answer singular questions, Knock down any singular claim you make but I won’t engage in scatterbrained useless drivel

            ok?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay. It’s cool. But you’re gonna have to be a little more patient with me, since the most I’ve done is high school biology. Aaaaand, maybe you could keep your replies clean? I don’t really want to read a bunch of cursing, sooo…Ok?

          • pud

            You do not need any science training to watch the historical videos

          • Kyra Lynne

            I know.

          • Kyra Lynne

            I’ll do this on the condition that maybe we can continue this discussion on a different site of my choice. Deal?

          • pud

            Sure

          • pud

            fine

          • Kyra Lynne

            Awesome! check out therebelution.com and pick an article to comment on. I’ll find you there and then we can get back to what we were doing…

          • pud

            Not interested…it’s too clumsy

            If there is one specific topic there you want me to address then direct me there otherwise I’m not interested in getting involved in some gang of teens

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay, once you get there, search “why do you believe in God.” a discussion link should come up. That should be appropriate place and you can read the other posts if you want.
            We’re not a gang and we won’t come against you. This discussion probably won’t even get bothered with, the subject has been dropped a while ago. So just get there. You’ll be okay, even if someone does say something, I think you can handle it. Lol If you can handle me, then you can handle them. I’m not as nice as some.

          • Kyra Lynne

            So. you DO have a nice side! 😉

          • Kyra Lynne

            Helloooo….

          • Kyra Lynne

            I have a question for you. Will you answer it?????

          • pud

            Absolutely so long as it is a direct and pointed question and when I reply you don’t wander off on something else

          • pud

            I said that I would

          • pud

            I said yes twice but it keeps disappearing

          • Kyra Lynne

            Oh sorry, I saw that you said yes. I just wanted to continue it somewhere else. Hang on.

          • pud

            Why don’t you tell me why you wish to continue this with me

          • Kyra Lynne

            Because I want you to answer my questions. How am I supposed to learn anything if you don’t cooperate? I want to be able to answer yours too.

          • pud

            Ok…i’ll give it a try..going there now

          • Kyra Lynne

            Yay!

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay, I just have one thing to say before we get into another discussion, unless thiss leads to one. I’ll try to stay on track for you.
            You kept asking me to prove things with science. But science CANNOT prove anything. Any theory, any hypothesis can be broken into bits in a matter of years. A new discovery comes out and crushes another theory. It happens all the time. That’s all I’m trying to say. Science can’t actually prove anything.
            Are you purposely not replying, ooor…

          • pud

            No I do not expect you to prove anything with science. I’ve explained to you already that science doesn’t deal in “proofs” Proofs only exist in mathematics, logic and by definition. Science uses FACTS to create models and assign probability to a given hypothesis….they do not ever prove anything only construct models based upon evidence. When the evidence changes the models change getting better each time.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Thanks for TRYING to “help” anyway. Nice arguing with you! Lol

          • Kyra Lynne

            I’m sorry that you feel like you’re wasting your time with me, but the feeling is mutual. You simply don’t want to believe that there is a God that has the power over you. 🙁

          • Kyra Lynne

            Oh and it’s obvious that you don’t care any for the people around you. How does your family stand you????
            I give you permission to answer my last comments. I want to know if you have an excuse.

          • pud

            Really? And exactly how would you know about my relationships with those around me? You wouldn’t because you operate by conjecture and make believe. You have no regard for evidence or reality so it’s easy for you to leap to any number of false conclusions as you’ve proven numerous times during our conversation. You see, I don’t hang around stupid gullible delusional dysfunctional people. My circle consists of enlightened educated people who respect evidence, truth, reason and critical thinking. We respect each other because we respect honesty and we don’t fear critique.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Riiight. Whatever you have to tell yourself.

          • pud

            Don’t you read your bible?

          • Kyra Lynne

            No, I just go about claiming I believe it, but no, I don’t read it. Lol What kind of a question is that?

          • Kyra Lynne

            He’s too afraid to answer my questions but he ridicules me for not answering his at the highest level.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Please, please, please answer my question! You haven’t yet and it isn’t any fun to debate someone who doesn’t answer questions. How am I supposed to learn anything?

          • Kyra Lynne

            I’m not trying to waste your time.

          • Kyra Lynne

            The Bible says that we should believe by faith and not by sight. I know God exists because He helps me. He helps me restrain myself from lashing out on you for trying to lead people to the dark. He helps me know how to answer you in a Christ-like fashion. That’s how I know. I wouldn’t be so nice to you if He weren’t there. I’d of done what you were doing earlier.
            I KNOW HE’S REAL BECAUSE HE CHANGED ME. That’s it.

          • pud

            I don’t care what a Bronze Age books written by ignorant savages says anymore than I care what any other of the countless “holy” books say. I care about what is true. I warned you to stay on topic…you couldn’t….good bye

          • Kyra Lynne

            Fine by me. Good riddance. But I’ll be praying for you.

          • pud

            Wasting your time but go ahead and knock yourself out. I pity you. It seemed that you were actually seeking genuine understanding but it’s obvious your indoctrination at the hands of your child abusing parents is too complete. cheers!

          • Kyra Lynne

            I will, thank you. Jesus is the only one who can open your eyes.

            But listen. I was doing this discussion because I wanted to hear you’re argument. I wasn’t planning on changing my entire view on life. You can’t expect that, just as I can’t expect that from you. But you haven’t stopped to consider my ideas. You just keep on in your own, without thinking that maaaybe I’m right. I’m not trying to convert you, I just wanted you to take a nanosecond and consider it. That’s all I’m saying.

          • pud

            DUDE! You have NO ideas! You have done nothing but repeat the mythology, make unsupported claims, regurgitated the party line and SHOWN nothing that you claim to be actually true!

            You have done NOTHING that a good young muslim couldn’t do or a good indoctrinated hidu would say. You’re NO different than any cult member of any religious group that ever existed! You just assert! You just claim! You just profess your ignorance on things and ascribe the explanation to your invisible deity without ANY evidence that it’s true!

            I’ve explained to you how we arrive at truth. I’ve explained to you how we KNOW if something exists or not. I’ve given you links to actual evidence for the scientific theories you can’t even frame a proper question about such as “explosions” for the big bang.

            You’re not interested in evidence…you’re not interested in reason. You want to “believe” what you want to “believe” so I can’t help you until you want to be helped

          • Kyra Lynne

            I never asked for help. I asked you to listen. I have given you proofs, but you’ve rejected them. You need to take a step back from the so-called “facts” of everything you believe (excuse me, you don’t believe anything) and take a look at my life and other Christian’s lives. You’ll see that they are different. Why don’t you try to find out why?

          • pud

            More ignorance on display! Do you KNOW what a “proof” is? Obviously not!

            Proofs exist only in mathematics, logic and by definition. You’ve “proved” absolutely nothing!

            Try again if you can stay focused….give me just ONE PROOF of any claim you’ve made….just one and no more….show this “proof”

          • Kyra Lynne

            Your definition of proof is flawed and I can’t help you. Is it proof if you can see it???

          • pud

            My definition is exact!

            Everything outside of mathematical proofs, logical proofs and definition is a PROBABILITY FUNCTION

            Seeing is not proof it is one form of evidence. Magicians fool people all the time so seeing is not a measure of truth.

            We arrive at probabilities via evidence and rational argument and declare something to be true by degrees of confidence.

            You have no evidence for your claim of creation by an invisible deity…I have museums full of evidence that evolution is a fact

            Which has the higher probability of being closest to the truth?

            Taint yours!

          • Kyra Lynne

            I know someone who has seen Jesus.
            Got an answer for that? Of course you will. You won’t believe me. Like always.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Sometimes we know too much. Sometimes we just need to take a step back and ask ourselves why we’re here. I’m not trying to pull you into a “death cult” as you call it. I’m just trying to do what Jesus would have me do. I’m sorry if what I just said is not relevant, but I just wanted to get that out there.
            And also, I’m sorry for saying anything rude during this discussion. It was wrong and I shouldn’t have done it…I guess I let my annoyed spirit get away from me. 🙂

          • pud

            Who wrote the quotes of “jesus” in your book? Name them? Who was the scribe who followed him around writing down exactly what he said? Tell me how anyone would know what he said or did when he was entirely alone!

            It’s a STORY! A made up story that reads like a story

            If anyone would have you do something that makes you a slave and him a tyrant!

            Tell me….If a doctor had a cure for disease but withheld it from humanity and instead went around and cured a few here or there for show…what would you think of his morality?

            This is EXACTLY what your storybook character did! Supposedly he had the power to CURE leprosy but didn’t! He just spit in some eyes and magically cured a couple for show. What does that say about his morality? What does it say that he supported human slavery?

            Is this the role model you’ve chosen to be a slave to?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Different people wrote different books of the Bible. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Matthew. The men who wrote the books were followers of Jesus. And, um….what scripture quotations of Jesus being completely alone?
            Tell me why, sir, someone would go to all the trouble to write such a book and claim it as true. That unrealistic. No one would believe it and therefore I wouldn’t be living it right now.
            Jesus didn’t do it for show. He did it for love. And just because He didn’t heal very single leper doesn’t mean He didn’t love them. He just had a different plan for them then the ones He did heal. It’s just the way it is. Everyone’s life is different.
            Now, may I ask you a personal question? It is relevant.

          • pud

            Pretty weak son. Joseph Smith wrote a book that all the Mormons consider true. Muhammad has a book written too…why did they go to all that trouble? It’s a stupid question. There are hundreds of such books all of which are far different from yours that took lots of labor….are they equally true given that by your standard they only needed to “go to all the trouble”?

            You cannot demonstrate that any “jesus” ever existed.

            In the story it’s demonstrated that this “jesus” had the power to end human suffering…yes or no?

            Yet he withheld it from all of humanity…true or false?

            And he watched for 100s of thousands of years as untold suffering has gone on and did nothing…true or false?

            So what does that say of his morality?

            Epicurus put it this way….see if you can find a flaw in the argument….

            “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
            Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
            Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
            Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

          • Kyra Lynne

            You want to play true or false? I can do that.
            Yes, God has the power to remove suffering. Yes, He did do that and He still does. But what would happen if God removed every little affliction that ever happened to His people? We would never learn to lean on Him. And what happens when we have something hard happen? Once we get through it, we are stronger and better equipped for next time. Without hardship, we wouldn’t be able to handle a broken fingernail.

          • pud

            Oh so childhood cancer, tsunamis and the ebola virus are just to teach us eh? If you had children and wanted to teach them about the dangers of not looking both ways before crossing a street would you hit them with your car or are you capable of having a gentle loving talk with them to explain it? As a mere mortal you can find constructive loving ways to achieve your goals…apparently your all powerful deity can’t eh?

            You need to think things through more carefully before you hit the send button

          • Kyra Lynne

            You’re so lame. It is man’s fault that our world is filled with sin and suffering. It’s your fault and my fault and Adam and Eve’s fault. NOT God’s. I’m sorry that you have nothing to help you when you go through these things. I don’t know what it would be like.

          • pud

            Of course you have evidence for this adam and eve right? The ones who didn’t have any knowledge of good and evil but were punished anyway even though they had no clue of right and wrong? That adam and eve?

            And are you saying that a 1 year old child deserves to get cancer because of the deeds of someone else?

            This is why your cult is so perverted and wicked.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Yes, I do. And you’re wrong about that. They did know what they were doing. God warned them not to eat the fruit, but they did anyway.
            I’m sorry. I don’t know why all bad things happen. But I do know that we cause it. That 1yo is one God’s children too, and He loves him. Sometimes we don’t understand why. I’ll tell you this: I’m not oblivious to the pain around me. My sister-in-law has cancer, and my brother has only been married to her for less that a year. But I know that God is with us through it all, and that’s something that you don’t have. You could, but you don’t.

          • Kyra Lynne

            You are so sad. You’re angry because other people have what you don’t but you don’t want to admit it because it may prove you wrong. Sad, sad, sad. :'(
            I’m still going to pray for you.

          • pud

            Nope…not angry at anything. I wouldn’t sacrifice my critical thinking skills and join a warped cult like yours for all the tea in China Bye for now

          • Kyra Lynne

            Yep, what I thought. They all say that.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Jesus loves you. Goodbye.

          • Kyra Lynne

            I hope we didn’t end this on a bad note. I hope that we can have further conversations later. It was actually kinda fun. But I don’t want this to end badly, so hopefully it doesn’t. 🙂 See ya!

          • Kyra Lynne

            If you want to know more about what I stand for, you should check out my frequented website: therebelution.com You might like it.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Ha! That was on topic!

          • pud

            I want you to define “exist” Tell me how you KNOW if something “exists” or not. What is the defining trait of “existence”?

            I’ll tell you if you like

          • Kyra Lynne

            Sure, blind-man. Tell me the definition. You aren’t scaring me.

          • pud

            For someone who knows so little and who makes so many fundamental mistakes with his assertions and claims you have no room to call me “blind”

            We define exists by one fundamental trait….SHAPE. If something doesn’t have the characteristic of shape it is indistinguishable from the background of space. Picture an object floating in deep space…does it have shape? Can it be distinguished from the background of space? Does it have a border and contour? If it does it in fact “exists”

            If it doesn’t then it is one of 2 things only…..nonexistent or a concept. Concepts do not “exist” Things like “justice” do not actually exist but are relationships between things that do exist.

            Only objects “exist”

            There is NO difference between undetectable and nonexistent. Your “god” like all the other thousands of “gods” is by your own admission “undetectable” so therefore cannot “exist”

          • Kyra Lynne

            I may not know much about science, but if either of us are blind, it’d be you. You pulled a blankie over you face so that you don’t have to face the truth.
            So you’re saying that because God doesn’t have a “shape” it means He is nonexistent?

          • pud

            I’m saying the following…pay attention…

            In order to “exist” it must be an object with shape. Only objects “exist” So if your “god” lacks shape he is undetectable and indisguishable from the background of space and therefore CANNOT exist.

            If your “god” has shape then he does “exist” and because he “exists” within the universe and interacts with other objects in the universe he is subject to the laws of nature just like every other object and therefore is not a “god” but a more evolved life form.

            This is the only two possibilities other than your “god” and all “gods” being CONCEPTS which then also makes them nonexistent

          • Kyra Lynne

            Yeah, except for the fact that all “gods” are said to be supernatural, and in that case we have to drop all science. Sorry.

          • pud

            WTF? It proves that ALL 10,000 known “gods” are man made!

            I’m moving on now. I suggest you do some actual study on the topics you so casually pontificate about. I suggest your google the “facts of evolution” “big bang theory” and “abiogenesis” to start. At least know what you’re talking about and the false claims you’ve been putting forward

            See ya later maybe!

          • Kyra Lynne

            Okay, yeah, maybe we will. Although I still would like to continue this, aka debating the Bible. I’m winning.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Next time maybe you could keep your comments clean too…

          • Kyra Lynne

            Ooops. sorry, I meant “definition.”

          • Kyra Lynne

            Are you an atheist?

          • pud

            You made a claim. Answer the 2 questions or go find something better to do. I’m willing to engage you but I will not ramble and babble. Answer the 2 questions so that we can fully explore why they are irrational statements or move along.

          • Kyra Lynne

            I did. Answer mine, you jerk.

          • Kyra Lynne

            I don’t think it’s fair that you ask all the questions. My turn now.

          • Kyra Lynne

            I’m waiting for you to act like the adult that I assume you are and play fair. I answered your questions below, so now it’s time for you to answer mine.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Wisdom? Ha! Wisdom and knowledge are two different things. You have knowledge. I have NO wisdom.

          • Kyra Lynne

            And your life is great? If you want me to prove to you that God exists, then give me something to ask Him. You don’t give me or Him a chance. You ask me to prove, but you don’t let me. I don’t see how this is going to help.

          • pud

            Read what you just wrote and see how ridiculous it is.

            The proposition is, according to you, that the “god” of the bible “exists”

            We go no further until you demonstrate that this part of the equation is true! I don’t give “him” a chance or ask “him” questions unless and until you demonstrate that “he” actually exists!

            We don’t start with the assumption that “he” does exist!

          • Kyra Lynne

            He exists because I’ve seen His works. You can’t see the wind, but you know it exists because you see it’s effects.
            I’ve seen lives changed. I’ve seen people healed from addictions and illnesses. I’ve seen people like you, completely change their attitude because they actually looked for truth and found it in the Bible.
            I know that proof isn’t going to be enough for you. I probably won’t even believe me that I’ve seen those things. Open you eyes.

          • pud

            No…we KNOW that wind exists because we KNOW what it is composed of, we can measure it, we see its effects and can conclusively link cause and effect

            You seeing things that you cannot explain and attributing them to a deity is again an argument from ignorance.

            Peoples lives change without your superstitious god, they change with other superstitious “gods” they change with medical help and they change of their own accord. What you see doesn’t matter until you can SHOW a causal link not just invent a reason.

            People “believed” the “gods” caused thunder and lightening….did they? People saw it, heard it and ascribed the reason to a “god” didn’t they? Were they correct?

          • Kyra Lynne

            Miracles are not explained by science. No duh. That’s why they’re miracles. *rolls eyes*
            God controls the universe. So, yes, He made the thunder and lightning. Who else made it? You? lol

          • pud

            More unfounded baseless willfully ignorant claims.

            We know how lightening is formed and where thunder comes from….hint…it isn’t Thor and it isn’t your “god” either

          • Kyra Lynne

            Yeah, we know what it is and we know where it comes from. But who made the first lightning streak? Who made the first raindrop. Jesus.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Tell me how a heroine addict who has been through rehab twice and still wasn’t over it, went to church, became a Christian and was healed? Did he just randomly, suddenly get over it? NO. GOD healed him. Doctors couldn’t help him. Only God could help him.

          • pud

            How many addicts go to church and remain addicts? You observing one instance is not even evidence let alone statistically sensible. It’s you just leaping to some random conclusion because you have no other explanation and you don’t care to even look.

            Why would your “god” heal one addict while millions die daily from addictions, violence, starvation etc? Why won’t your “god” heal amputees? Ever see a limb grow back? Why not? What’s your “god” got against amputees?

          • Kyra Lynne

            I’ll be honest. I don’t know why God doesn’t heal them all. I know He could. But I know he has a plan in it all. And you know what? In Heaven, if you give your life to Christ, then we are all going to have whole bodies. I believe that God uses the darkness and destruction to bring the light. You may ask why this addict had to go through everything he did, if God could have healed him on the spot. But if God had done that, then that man wouldn’t have found the everlasting peace that comes with being a Christian. He may have even turned back to his old ways. But he didn’t, because once he experienced what’s it’s like to have Jesus in his life, he didn’t WANT to go back.

          • Kyra Lynne

            You say I don’t care to look for another explanation? What other explanation is there? There isn’t one. You’re problem is that you look for things that aren’t there. I just don’t waste my time.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Lol You never answered my question. Do you believe that Jesus, as a man, lived on this earth?

          • pud

            I do not “believe” anything. I accept certain propositions to degrees of certainty based upon the strength of evidence. I modify my acceptance as new evidence becomes available. This is what rational people do. There is NO evidence for the existence of any “jesus” character. No actual historical evidence whatsoever. Only your storybook writes of this mystical faith healer and the book is not evidence for itself.

            Now pick a specific topic to discuss and stay on topic

          • Kyra Lynne

            You don’t believe anything? Wow. That helped your case a lot. Okaaaay, he’s a nutcase.
            I’m tired of hearing your long-winded explanations to my simple questions. Just answer.
            So you don’t “believe” that he ever existed? You say that the bible is a made-up story book. But how can this be? There are hundreds of years old fragments all over the earth, and yet you say it’s not true? Jesus was a man. He was also God. He did miracles. He loved the sinners. He died for you. He made a way to heaven for you. YOU are the one chosen for His kingdom. Even now, he’s looking down on you, shaking His head in sadness because you won’t accept the truth. He loves you. Stop fighting it.

          • pud

            If you have been told this, convinced of this, brain washed into “believing” this then you have been LIED to. There are hundreds of museums and universities where you can view literally millions of fossils. We (science) have nearly complete fossil records that illustrate the entire evoloutionary development of many creatures including the human animal! There are mountains of evidence proving common descent from primitive species to modern including direct genetic markers and the bones themselves.

            Evolution theory can be falsified…your creation myth cannot. Show me a single layer of rock from the geologic column that doesn’t illustrate an order from simple (in the oldest rocks) to complex (in the youngest rocks) and you’ll win a Nobel Prize! Show me a bunny rabbit in any layer on earth that also contains a tribolite and you’ll win another Nobel Prize. It does not exist. Nowhere. Never. Everything theorized by evolutionary principles conforms with the observed data…ALL OF IT. There is no inconsistencies. NONE.

            Now you demonstrate, provide evidence of, show proof for…”creation” by a magicial invisible genie who can summon up matter and energy via an incantation and then explain the physics of speaking things into existence out of nothing as your book says happened….you’ll have your 3d Nobel Prize!

            It is absurd that anyone would take as true the words of no name authors from the Bronze Age over EVERYTHING modern science can DEMONSTRATE…Only cults cling to magical thinking and impossibilities while they desperately deny the evidence and fit the evidence to their theology rather than letting the evidence lead to the theory…the truth.

            It is criminal what your parents are doing to you. No different than the indoctrination a young man receives in some arab shithole from his Imam or some hindu from his Swami. They “believe” just like you do because they’ve been kept from the truth in favor of some ancient dark age mystical nonsense. Had you been born in Saudi Arabia you would be telling me nonsense like you are now only using Allah instead of Yahweh or Krishna instead of “jesus” and you would defend your position just as you are out of ignorance and superstition

            Why don’t you (or anyone else for that matter) “believe” in Zeus? Millions of people did! They offered prayers and sacrifices just as you do now and “believed” just as much in the ways and thinking of their religious cult as you do yours. Why don’t people worship Zeus anymore or Possiden? I’ll tell you why…because we KNOW the seas behave and conform to the laws of physics, climate, weather etc and not by the intervention of some invisible sea god.

            There is as little rational reason to “believe” in Zeus and Possiden as there is to “believe” without evidence in your chosen “god”….they are exactly the same and lack any evidence whatsoever for rational acceptance by any critically thinking person

            You don’t need to be a prisoner in mental shackles willfully ignorant and blind to reality….go to the library, use the internet, seek the FACTS and open your eyes before you piss away your whole life

            Shame on your parents…this is why I combat religious cults…what they do to children is a crime and abuse

          • Kyra Lynne

            Half the time you are talking, I don’t know what to make of it, buuuut that’s beside the point….
            Indoctrinated, huh? Okay. You think my parents try to keep the truth from me? You think that they’ve forced me and my siblings to believe it? This is modern day America, dude. In this generation, teenagers don’t listen to their parents. It’s supposedly our “nature” to rebel. In fact, I should be the one agreeing with on all of this, simply because my parents told me the opposite. But no. I have made my choice. I’ve read Biology based on evolutionist’s point of view. I’ve talked to real evolutionists, doing my own research. I’ve talked to unbiased sources. And I, ME, MYSELF, have made my decision. I KNOW with all that is within me, that God is God and that He created me and that He created you (don’t ask me why) and that He loves us. I have made my decision and I stand on it. I fall on it. It is my way of life, the reason I’m having this useless conversation, the reason you hate me, the reason I love you. It’s the reason that I forgive you for all the rude things you’ve said to me. You don’t shake me. You’re going to have to do better than that. Sooorrryy.

          • pud

            WTF is “protected internet”? Are you being held as a slave? What’s your cult afraid of that you might actually learn something real about the universe and reality? That should tell you something

          • Kyra Lynne

            What is wrong with you? Protected internet as in, I can’t click on insecure content. You must live in a hole.
            Can I ask you a favor?

          • pud

            Can you go to youtbue or google “Evolution is a fact”? Do it. Stop living a lie and in total ignorance

          • Kyra Lynne

            Yep. I could. But I’m not going to.
            See, I don’t know if you’ll understand this, but I have a respect for my parents wishes. And they tell me NOT to go googling random things. It doesn’t matter if I Google “Why god does exist” or “evolution is a fact” I’m not going to. It’s your loss. I’m sorry.
            Asking again: Do you hate God? Just answer the question. It’s very simple.

          • pud

            I have no ridiculous “beliefs” in any of the 10,000 “gods” men have invented.

            I feel very sorry for you. Your parents are child abusers if they keep you from actual knowledge and fill your head with myth and cult think

            I can show what I claim…you cannot

          • Kyra Lynne

            My parents have given me the choice to become a Christian. I have sought the truth and found it. You are covering your eyes and ears to truth because you’re afraid that it may prove you wrong. Have YOU Googled anything that would prove my beliefs? I didn’t think so. I feel verrry sorry for you. You’re missing out on the best gift in the universe. He’s holding it out to you. But you’re pushing it away. Very Sorry. :'(

          • pud

            No they didn’t…they indoctrinated you. Tell me how come you’re not a muslim or a hindu? Could it be because of geography? hmmmm?

            If you cannot DEMONSTRATE a truth claim then it is only a claim as valid as saying bigfoot is real.

            There is NO proof for any religious claims whatsoever

            Produce just ONE!

            I’m sorry you’ve chosen to waste your life and that you were born to such ignorant abusive parents who shield you from reality and actual truth

          • Kyra Lynne

            Do you believe that Jesus, as a man, lived once?

          • pud

            Googling “Evolution is a fact” is not searching a random thing. It is seeking truth just like googling “Why god can’t exist” would be seeking truth. Shielding you from reason, skepticism and the pursuit of truth and fact is child abuse

          • Kyra Lynne

            Oh brother. Are we seriously going to do this now? You’re so lame. Say something of importance.

          • pud

            You are the one making all the ridiculous assertions and claims…you bear the burden of proof not I…you obviously don’t have any desire to know what is actually true and would rather “believe” Bronze and Iron Age mythology for which you can offer absolutely NO evidence only absurd claims

          • Kyra Lynne

            and you are the one who is ignorant. Rofl

          • Kyra Lynne

            And maaaybe, if you had some respect for the people you were debating, then people would do it more often. Just sayin.

          • pud

            I don’t have any respect for you or your cult. You are wicked, delusional and dangerous like all religious cults who forsake reason for cult dogma

          • Kyra Lynne

            That’s your problem. I have respect for you, even though you incessantly insulting me. You just filling up your comments with nonsense.

          • pud

            Respect is earned not given. It’s worth nothing when given for free. You belong to a delusional death cult that perpetuates lies…you are my enemies

          • Kyra Lynne

            I am a Christian. I am told to love my enemies. You’re mind is twisted to hate me, even though I have done nothing to hurt you. You are the one who is delusional.

          • pud

            Yeah, you are told…you do as you’re told…you don’t think. I didn’t say I hated you I said I have no respect for you or anyone subscribed to your death cult

          • Kyra Lynne

            I was never told by anyone that you hated me. I got that vibe from your comments. And, no, I DON’T have to love you. Nope. Jesus gives us all a choice. If we follow His wishes is our choice. I choose to follow Him. I’d rather be me, loving you and telling you that He loves you too, rather than be you, insulting and hating.
            Do you hate God? Or do you just “not respect” Him?

          • Hi Kyra,

            You seem to have views on the bible and God that are similar to Fundamentalism.

            (1) Do you believe that all Scripture (plenary inspiration) is inspired of God (God breathed) and therefore without error (or totally reliable) in all that it affirms (in the now missing original manuscripts)?

            (2) Do you believe that where the bible speaks God speaks? That is, do you believe that there is a direct identity between the words of the bible and the Word of God?

            (3) Is the bible the Word of God in human words in history pointing to the one who is the eternal Word of God who partook of our humanity? Does the bible bear witness to Jesus of Nazareth?

            It is fair to warn you that I am not a Fundamentalist or Conservative Evangelical. On rational and empirical grounds I lean towards atheism, but I understand why someone might want to choose to believe in God. However, I cannot see how even subjective certainty as to God’s existence can provide objective evidence for that existence. Ultimately, it depends on faith.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Hey John,
            Yes, yes, and yes. Do you have agenda here?

          • Kyra Lynne

            God could have made us all zombies. He could have MADE us all worship Him. But He didn’t. He gave us the choice. You’re a smart guy. How can you not understand such a simple concept?

          • pud

            Which “god” There have been over 10.000 so called “gods” Are you referring to ZEUS or ODIN? Why don’t you “believe” in them?

          • Kyra Lynne

            They are made by man. My God made me, I didn’t make Him.

          • pud

            Your made up make believe “god” demands that above all else you worship him…love him…or else! Some deity eh? What’s the penalty for not “believing” in your particular deity? You have no choice…your imaginary “god” is a tyrant, murderer, genocidal maniac that’s so insecure that despite being all powerful NEEDS shit from grubby little underling humans like you…Does that make any sense? NO

          • Kyra Lynne

            *sighs* Let me try to explain this to your finite mind.
            God created us. We are here because He wanted someone to love. So He created you and me. If HE created us and the world we are living in, don’t you think it’s fair that He should make the rules? And yes, like I said before, you have a choice. In the beginning, everything was perfect but when man was given the choice to obey God or not, he chose not. And that id the reason why we are living in our sins today. You can live and die for Him. Or you can live in ignorance until the end. There will be judgment. Those who don’t believe WILL be cast into the lake of fire.
            BUT. JESUS said that He is not willing for ANYONE to parish. Don’t you see? He doesn’t want to have the Kingdom of Heaven without you. He wants you there with Him. So he sent His Son, Jesus to die for your sins and to make a way to Heaven. It’s just that way it is, whether you accept it or not!

          • Kyra Lynne

            I’m sorry, sir. I don’t know how your heart can be so full of anger and hatred for a God who loves you more than you could ever imagine.
            Did you ever try to understand it, or were you too busy insulting Him?

          • pud

            Demonstrate that ANY “god” ever existed….try

          • Kyra Lynne

            How do want me to do that? You want me to wave my hand and do a miracle? You do not command God; He commands you. He is the reason we are having this conversation. He is the reason that I KNOW with all of my heart that He loves me and you.
            You won’t believe my proof.
            My aunt was born with hip problems. She had to wear a brace when she was a kid. When she was an adult she went to a church meeting. The elders of the church laid their hands on her and asked God to heal her. He did. He doesn’t always do what we ask, but He did that time. But there was no point to me telling you that. I know you won’t believe me.

          • Kyra Lynne

            Point proven. I like debating you!

          • Kyra Lynne

            What do you believe, sir? Or do you just know what you don’t believe.

          • Kyra Lynne

            I’m not hiding, you sad, strange little man.

          • Kyra Lynne

            I’m waiting….

          • Kyra Lynne

            Who’s hiding now?

  • Jon Pierce

    Although this article was very knowledgeable with scripture; The Author has no clue or idea of what a real spiritual attack is! It goes far beyond demons spreading lies and slandering God’s people. Read Job! Ha ha ha getting your feelings hurt because people are talking bad about you is not a spiritual attack. Grow some thicker skin. What a joke!