Atlas Shrugged: A Novel for the 1%

Way back in 2011, I read Ayn Rand’s magnum opus Atlas Shrugged – all 1,074 pages of it – with a promise that I’d eventually get around to doing a chapter-by-chapter review, like my review of Lee Strobel’s The Case for a Creator. I got sidetracked by other projects for a while, but now it’s about time to fulfill that promise.

If you haven’t read Atlas cover-to-cover yourself (and who could blame you?), here’s the plot in a nutshell: In a twenty-minutes-into-the-future United States of America, the world is becoming steadily more communist, and the economy is disintegrating as a result. The small minority of people who still believe in capitalism, mostly captains of industry, declare that they’re no longer willing to support the ungrateful masses with their labor and go on strike, withholding their productive talents from a world that won’t pay them what they deserve.

You’d think the book might end with everyone else realizing how wrong they’d been and pleading with the capitalists to come back and save them, but no. In the end, civilization collapses, millions of people starve to death, and the fortunate few live in comfort in a remote mountain retreat, isolated from the chaos and anarchy all around. In Rand’s eyes, this counts as a happy ending.

Atlas Shrugged is unapologetically a novel of and for the 1%, and like it or not, that makes it a novel of and for our time. It argues that tooth-and-claw capitalism, unfettered by rules or regulations, isn’t just the best but the only way to run a society, and taxes, laws and social programs are all intolerable trespasses on the sacred right of a few individuals to get as rich as they possibly can. Rand’s worldview is Manichaean, utterly black-and-white: you’re either a heroically selfish capitalist (she regarded selfishness as the highest of all virtues), or you’re one of the looters. And she isn’t shy about saying that people who don’t believe in capitalism as she defines it aren’t just lazy, but worthless: moochers, parasites, literally unworthy of life, whose deaths we’re meant to cheer.

Despite this bloodcurdlingly callous moral view, Randian makers-and-takers rhetoric is more popular than ever among self-identified conservatives. During the last two presidential campaigns, Tea Partiers angrily threatened to “go Galt” and deny us all their productive brilliance. Paul Ryan said that he required his congressional staffers to read Rand, and Mitt Romney’s comment about how 47% of the population are lazy freeloaders could have come straight from Atlas, although if he’d been a character in the book, saying that would have made him a hero and not a villain. And last but certainly not least, Glenn Beck has announced grand plans to build his own Randian capitalist utopia, a real-life Galt’s Gulch where freedom will ring, all yours for just $2 billion.

Then again, this is probably to be expected. You can always be feted by telling the wealthy and powerful what they want to hear, and Rand tells them that being richer than everyone else is proof that they’re better than everyone else. Wealth and success are tangible proofs of moral superiority. In fact, she goes even further than that: she argues that the wealthy are exalted superhumans, like the god-kings of old, and that all the lesser specimens of humanity are abjectly dependent on them. In an era of soaring inequality, corporate bailouts and swelling street protests, when the wealthy may be feeling just a little besieged and defensive, it’s perhaps no surprise that they might cling even harder to self-justifying rhetoric like Rand’s to fend off criticism.

Since I want to finish this review eventually, it will have to be a whistle-stop tour. I’m not going to comment on every page of the book – I’ll summarize where possible, and I’ll probably skip the tedious monologues – but there will be plenty of points of interest along the way. If you’ve got your own copy of the book, feel free to follow along at home. And now, if you’re ready, let’s dive in…

Other posts in this series:

About Adam Lee

Adam Lee is an atheist writer and speaker living in New York City. His first book, Daylight Atheism, is available in paperback and e-book. Read his full bio, or follow him on Twitter.

  • Andrew

    I think the book is poorly written, poorly thought out drivel.

    Here’s the thing, though: the villains aren’t the poor (at least not the major ones), they’re people who are rich but have done little to nothing to earn it (James Taggart) yet expect the government to shield them from their losses. The bank bailout would have driven her crazy (one element where she would have been sympathetic to the Occupy movement [the only one]).

    The rich who are “creators” are the heroes–and because they work hard, she sees money as proof of their success. But if you merely have money, and do nothing to generate more wealth? Now you’re the villain.

    That, in and of itself doesn’t sound too bad. Because it’s pure propaganda, there are no subtleties; she allows nothing to get in the way her point, not even telling an interesting story. And, as you said, her Manichean worldview forces her to take extreme and sadistic positions (kids die in a train–they’re fault, they’re mother voted for the wrong person!).

  • Andrew

    Re-reading what I just wrote (and not sure how to edit), I just want to make sure this comes across: I find the book morally repugnant, just a little more complicated than “You have money? You’re a hero! You don’t have money? Booo! Get thee hence, moocher!”

  • L.Long

    I have not read the book and never will. Through the various blogs and my other extensive reading i have come to the conclusion that PURE anything is wrong. Capitalism must be balanced by socialism; democracy by a constitution and representation, communism (real not that Russian schite) balanced by capitalism; xtians by non xtians, skeptics by magicians, one thing by its opposite for a smoother running society.

  • http://Www.insomniaclibertarian.blogspot.com Bruce Majors

    I love these incompetent smear pieces on Ayn Rand that leftovers write to drive traffic to their sites. Many of them amount to profiteering pay per view gang bangs of her corpse. I only ad the first few sentences of yours and it was already so ignorant I didn’t go further to see if it falls into that really smarmy category.

    Atlas Shrugged is a novel about late stage disaster statism, which we are indeed in now, where the tax predator ruling class bails out crony corporations and lots the population at large, from inventors and entrepreneurs to “average” taxpayers. Your blinders are the source of that it pits business people against the masses. How sad for you that you can’t read.

  • Alejandro

    A conservative like Romney would not be the hero. Libertarians want the goverment to stay away from their lives as much as possible. Specially we dont want goverment telling us what to do in the privacy of our own bedrooms.

    And yeah…his 47% statement. Its an old topic but the core of his statement was right. A big amount of the american population is addicted to free stuff from the goverment, and they will always vote democrat no matter what. Worse thing is americans seem to be getting more lazy are more willing to take money from their fellow taxpayers each time… both on real numbers and in percentage of population, more americans are on govermental support now than in other time in recent history. Look at the 46 million on food stamps or the 75% of seniors in medicare if you dont believe me .

  • http://aaeblog.com Roderick T. Long

    One point you don’t mention in your summary is that most of the wealthy businessmen in Atlas Shrugged are portrayed as being in the looter class, not the productive class. They’re the corporate elite, lobbying for subsidies and monopoly privileges; the Dagny Taggarts and Hank Reardens are clearly portrayed as the exceptions, not the rule. In other words, today’s 1% corresponds most closely to the villains of her book, not the heroes. Remember what Rand said about Republican economic policies:
    http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/2012/08/ryan-vs-ayn-r

  • PhiloKGB

    One wonders if Alejandro has ever given economics more than the most cursory sound-bite “libertarian” treatment. If not 47%, then how “big” an “amount”? Could, I dunno, the economy have anything to do with food stamp usage? The majority of food stamp users have jobs after all. And have you ever bothered to check out what private health insurance for a senior costs? That’s if they’re insurable in the first place.

  • Puzzled

    My discomfort with Occupy stemmed exactly from being unclear as to what the 1% meant. I believe firmly that the top 1%, who wield an inordinate amount of power and control, are the beneficiaries of government collusion, not lack of regulation. It is not lack of regulation that caused both parties to agree on the need to give billions of dollars in taxpayer aid to billionaires while ignoring homeowners, it is government involvement in determining outcomes.

    Similarly, the entire crisis was not the result of unbridled capitalism. Few industries are more regulated, or less capitalist, in the sense of free market, than banking. Banks operate within a cartel, legally enforced, giving them special privileges.

    In Atlas Shrugged, granted, a point lost on many Objectivists, Rand takes on precisely this 1%, the James Taggarts/Hank Paulsons/Goldman Sachs. Her major villains are the wealthy who collude with government to keep their position in opposition to market values. Her villains remain our villains.

    To be sure, I disagree with many aspects of her philosophy, but this isn’t one of them.

  • Elizabeth

    Oh dear, you’re really going to do it…and so will I…I’ll crack the book open today!

  • Alejandro

    That they have jobs does not changes the fact that a fraction of their income comes not from their own work, but from the goverment (or their hard working taxpayer americans, to be exact). How could this affect economy? It does indirectly as it makes it so there is no real incentive for hard working. Dont have enough money? Well, you have two options: Option number one is to work more time, or try to find a better job (learning the skills necesary to do it), or start a bussiness on the side, or whatever. Option number two is to ask mommy goverment for more money, since you dont make enough. More people choosing option number one would result in a higher net contribution to economical growth, option number two does not. Right now there is an increasing number of americans choosing number two, which is not long term sustaniable (look at what a great economy we have in our socialist europe).

    This is the big problem with socialism. It does not promote hard work and it actually removes some of the motivation to produce wealth. If I live in a country where the goverment gives me everything for free (and I am thinking about some european welfare states, not amercia), why would I bother to make a lot of money? (thus actually contributing to the economy). Why would I bother to study four years in a university and try to get a good job, if at the end I am going to have essentally the same quality of life as the guy who spent high school smoking weed, or the stupid single mother who got herself pregnant at 19 and does not even know who the father is?

  • J. John

    Oh boy. Maybe I’m going to have to finish that thing. It’s been 12 years since I started.

  • Dorfl

    Alejandro, can you point to any european country where it would be even vaguely correct to say that “goverment gives me everything for free”?

  • triffid-pruner

    Do give a little attention to the fictional qualities of the book. Layered in between the monologues is a richly-described science fictional world, as colorful and engrossing as that of, say, Blade Runner. If you are young you can get wrapped up in that world and accept it as uncritically you accept any other science fiction or fantasy experience, just enjoying the fictional experience. Rand’s rules work inside that world, just like the rules of magic work inside LOTR.

    Another thing that helps sell the experience is that the protagonists are going through a quintessentially adolescent crisis: they have a vision and nobody else understands them. They (Taggert, Reardon) are speaking a different language than everyone around them and they feel so ALONE in their quest. It’s pure adolescent angst, rendered at Mt. Rushmore scale, and seductive as hell for a teenage reader. And what misunderstood adolescent hasn’t dreamt of turning his/her back on the oblivious world and somehow going it alone. That’s what Galt has achieved: the ultimate adolescent snit, and gotten away with it.

  • DR

    @Alejandro:

    1. Seniors have paid into Social Security their entire working lives. So it’s not free.
    2. Nor is Medicare: see 1.
    3. Do you really believe that people who make gazillions of dollars make it all on their own, without any help from the Government? Please go look at the books of any large corporation. You’ll see that a good portion of their revenues can be traced back, directly or indirectly, to some form of Government aid. From direct contracts (the entire Military-Industrial complex comes to mind), to financing of fundamental research (medical and Pharma; also the very internet you are using to spew your nonsense), to basic infrastructure like roads, police and the fire department. There isn’t a single corporation that could exist without mooching to some degree off the Government, which means from your taxes and mine. In fact, there isn’t a society that could.

    If we followed the libertarian dystopian fantasy, the entire world would look like Somalia: warlords and pirates. That’s not the world I want to live in, is it yours?

  • Alejandro

    Just for the record, I am not a hardcore libertarian who believes all taxation is wrong and the best ruling system is anarchy. I agree some basic services need to be provided by a government, I just think right now government is way too big and has way too much influence over everything. My “fantasy” would not be somalia, it would be more like Hong Kong: (relatively) free trade, low taxation, high economic freedoom, low interventionism, etc. (And yes, I know Hong Kong is not perfect…perfect is impossible to achieve in real life. But the quality of life there is still pretty good).

    Dorfl. “Everything free” is a way to speak in most cases. But not in some. I once knew a young guy from finland who was traveling here in Germany, and when I asked him what did he did for a living he said, almost in a proud way, that he did not do anything. He was unemployed and living on welfare and barely did anything other than sit on his ass and smoke weed all day. In that case you could he got everything for free (meaning what he got from the government was enough to pay for everything) and he even had some spare cash to spare on travelling every now and then.

    Now, regarding health care. Health insurance in the US is a very complicated issue. And since I dont live there, I am not very informed about it and I dont want to get into some big debate about it. What I do know is that health care in the US is heavily regulated (and the regulation is very complex on top of that). One of the reasons why health care is so damn epensive is that because of governmental mandates, a healthy 25 year-old man who buys health insurance must have a policy that is expensive enough to pay for autsim, breast ancer, childbirth, mammograms, and a variety of other crap he will never need. If there was a really free market system in healthcare, a 25 year-old man would pay for the type of healthcare he wants or needs, but this is not allowed.

  • flyn

    I agree with triffid-pruner.
    I read the book first when I was about 13-14 years old and thoroughly enjoyed it just because of those reasons. I read it again at 22 and still enjoyed it. While I don’t agree with everything in it, looking back at my impressions from those young ages, it did seem like a “fantasy world”, and that’s what was appealing. For me, it had a 1920′s noir feeling to it, plus, there was a kind of romanticism to the whole thing, (you know, a mysterious club of sorts), not to mention a strong heroine.
    Besides that, it introduced a whole different perspective for me to ponder over, and that’s why my dad probably wanted me to read it so much, though he himself is not republican or part of the 1%.

  • PhiloKGB

    In what sense do the working poor have the “options” that you mention? Can anyone simply choose to work more hours? Can one simply learn skills without paying through the nose to a university? Are these people who, when not working, have nothing better to do than, say, cook meals or take care of children or clean house? I guess I should apologize on behalf of all those strugglers who failed to realize that you get to decide when someone’s working hard enough.

  • PhiloKGB

    That should read, “… nothing better to do like, say, cook meals …”

  • Jrod

    Alejandro, your statements regarding American healthcare are flatly untrue. The mandate is not even in effect yet, so stating that it’s somehow responsible for America’s outrageous medical prices is blatantly and obviously untrue. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are simply ignorant on the subject and not deliberately lying to us, but I suggest that you learn what’s actually going on before you run your mouth.

    The issue of ridiculously high medical bills is covered quite thoroughly by this article in Time which unfortunately requires a subscription. The basic gist is that bill prices are decided by an opaque and arbitrary process which differs for each provider and which allows for unchecked increases. The high prices have definitely NOT been caused by something which won’t even happen until 2014.

  • Nonnie

    I just wanted to second (third?) what others have said that Rand definitely didn’t seem to equate wealth with goodness, but rather equated creation with both goodness and wealth. One of my problems with that is our society’s clear disconnect between quality and success. I mean, Twilight! In the world of Atlas Shrugged, the only way you make money is either by providing high quality goods or services or by cheating. A huge difference from our real world.

    And even though I now disagree with most of the philosophy in the books, and I was unsettled by the implications, I did personally enjoy reading them. I find her writing perfectly fluent, if nothing special, her characters compelling, and her plots more than serviceable. Maybe the heavy-handedness would bother me now.

  • Adam Lee

    Well, this post is getting a lot of interest! This bodes well. :)

    A couple of people in this thread have said that Rand’s real villains aren’t the poor, but the crony capitalists who expect the government to bail them out and enforce their monopoly power. This is only half-true, really.

    Rand’s villains aren’t capitalists at all. In her eyes, they’re evil precisely because they’re not driven by self-interest, because they don’t care about making a profit, but rather value things like fairness, social responsibility, duty to the public – all of which are concepts she views as horrible, incomprehensible blasphemy. (One of them is a banker who’s proud of how much money he lost by making loans to needy people who had no collateral.) Much like the Left Behind authors who think that all non-Christians are spitefully rejecting what they secretly know to be the truth, she can’t imagine anyone claiming to care about these things for any reason except as a malicious plot to destroy the real capitalists whom they hate.

    It’s probably true that Rand would have been against the bank bailouts (and therefore, inescapably, in favor of the immense worldwide panic and economic collapse that would have happened if we hadn’t done it, as distasteful as it was). That’s precisely what I mean when I say she’s in favor of unfettered, tooth-and-claw capitalism. She doesn’t believe there should be any regulation or social safety net of any kind; she believes businesses should be free to do anything they choose – in fact, one of her characters proposes this as a constitutional amendment – and whatever consequences result from that, everyone should just have to live with them, or die from them, whichever the case may be.

  • http://aaeblog.com Roderick T. Long

    because they don’t care about making a profit, but rather value things like fairness, social responsibility, duty to the public

    That’s an odd take on, say, Jim Taggart (who gets his cronies in government to put his competitors out of business); likewise Orren Boyle, Fred Kinnan, Tinky Holloway, Kip Chalmers … it’s pretty clear that most of these guys use altruism as a cover for “selfish” (in the ordinary non-Randian sense) purposes.

    She doesn’t believe there should be any regulation or social safety net of any kind; she believes businesses should be free to do anything they choose

    Of course if her policies were implemented they would destroy corporate power and empower ordinary workers — to a far greater degree than she herself realised. See:

    http://praxeology.net/mnc-page.htm

    http://praxeology.net/industrial-radical.htm

    http://all-left.net

    http://c4ss.org

  • CelticPeace

    I am pleased to see that many on this thread have pointed out that big business and the federal government worked together (colluded) in the book to block innovative products that could have helped the country, and as result lowered the standard of living. I do not claim that this same thing is happening today exactly the same way in our country. Howeverrr… the Dodd Frank regulations do help big banks more than smaller banks. And now we have another Treasury Secretary that comes from Wall Street, one who got a huge bonus from a BIG bank at the time that bank was taking a government bailout … Wall Street and most big business are doing fine, government continues to prosper (I don’t see anyone from Congress willing to give up anything), while Main Street/the Average Joe has suffered and continues to suffer. Not too different than Rand’s world.
    I had a problem with the innovators in the book not doing anything to try to reform the corruption in the government. They lived in their own fantasy bubble, oblivious to the much of the world around them, including those in need. Why didn’t any of them run for office or take an interest in politics ????

  • http://eternalbookshelf.wordpress.com Ani J. Sharmin

    Adam, I remember you writing that post about reading Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged” and remember commenting that I had wanted to read it. Unfortunately, I haven’t done so yet (as, I admit, it hasn’t been very high on my priority list). I’m going to start it now and will try to read along with your review. I actually just started reading another doorstopper of a book: Victor Hugo’s “Les Misérables”.

    Concerning the monologues, the TV Tropes page on the Author Filibuster starts with the following, which I found amusing.

    This is John Galt speaking [...] I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to life for mine.
    — John Galt, Atlas Shrugged. That ellipsis covers 33,319 words

  • http://Www.insomniaclibertarian.blogspot.com Bruce Majors

    Ah such amusing posts. Little leftover dupes of our current failed system nattering on about how libertarians don’t know this or that, when none of them have ever read the many libertarian critiques of the opium their master’s feed them. You are doomed, as Ayn Rand described in Atlas Shrugged.

  • DR

    @Alejandro: You are still a child, imagining fantasies of sugar-plum fairies. Reality is much harsher than what you imagine. There are no “creators” in this world in the Randian sense. No one can create anything of significance to society on their own. Not even the most independent artist can achieve anything without the support of a large number of people who work to make their work known. A truly independent artist is a dead artist, of starvation, exposure and/or disease. So is a truly independent anything.

    There is no such thing as a “captain of industry” in the way Rand imagines them. They are pure fantasy; a juvenile revenge fantasy from the mind of a spoiled little-rich-girl who never really grew up. Most CEOs mooch on the Government, as well as the hard work of everyone in the companies they “direct” from the comfort of their offices where they spend most of the day in idle chit-chat with other CEOs and “directors”. The few that actually contribute to their company’s operations, people like Steve Jobs for example, still couldn’t achieve the slightest things without armies of people who have the skills to take what he has in his head, and make it real. Do you really think Jobs could design and build an iPhone? No. The reality is, for anyone who has actually built something complex, that NO ONE COULD.

    In Rand’s world, ideas are magic. A “creator” comes up with a half-baked idea, and POOF, it magically comes into existence. There is no infrastructure, no hard work from millions of people to build things. You never see the process, you only ever see the result and think it was always there. This is not surprising: it comes from a person who was used to ringing a bell, and being served. So how the food came from the fields to her plate never even crossed her mind. And so she, and all the libertarians who ideolize her, imagine that the world is like that: magic. And that all the throngs of people who actually make ideas happen are nothing but moochers, because they didn’t really do anything, right? The idea was in a brain, not it’s reality. Magic.

  • DR

    @Alejandro: Oh, and by the bye… Hong Kong has Universal Health Care… Doesn’t that make them horrible commies or something?

  • Dorfl

    @Bruce

    Do you really believe there is any important difference between you and the people who fantasise about how they’ll be ‘raptured’ while the rest of the world gets destroyed by the antichrist?

  • Dorfl

    Oh, hey: ‘Rapture’!

    I’d never understood why the objectivist city in BioShock was called that until now.

  • MNb

    “the best but the only way to run a society”
    Stupid, stupid countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Finland and to a lesser extent The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg and France never realized that they have gone down since 1945.

    “she regarded selfishness as the highest of all virtues”
    Creating win-win situations is an excellent form of selfishness; the best I’d say. Kropotkin – a compatriot of Rand btw – showed this when studying Siberian tribes and their survival techniques, more than 100 years ago.

  • Alejandro

    @PhiloKGB: So you are saying that is simply impossible for annyone to increase his or her income in america? Wow. So much for the land of opportunities. I did not know that ALL the rich people there are rich because they were born from rich parents… the fact that they were responsible people and made right life choices (or avoided making wrong choices…which leads me to my next point) had nothing to do with it.

    Now, you are probably right regarding “taking care of kids”. Kids are somehow of a burden for making money since they require both money and time. What I am going to say will sound mean and may piss off a lot of people, but I think you should ONLY have kids once you are financially secure and you have done the math and made sure you can afford them. Deciding to have children if you are poor is an incredibly STUPID choice, and it is not fair that other people are forced to carry the consequences of it. (And dont tell me is not a choice when contraception and abortion are so easily avaliable). If a female 18 year old high shool dropout decides to act stupid and a couple of babies before she hits 20, liberals think that the “fair” thing to do is to put a gun on her hardworking neighbour and force him to give her some money. Right, thats totally fair.

    @DR: If being a CEO is as easy as “chit-chatting” all day from a comfortable office, then why dont you start your own business and become a super millionare yourself? Right, you wont, because it is not easy. Starting up a bussiness requires knowledge, skill and a lot of work at the beginning. Not to mention a very important factor: Risk. An entrepreneur incurrs into very real risk of bankrupcy starting its own business (and most business fail within less than two years), so its obvious that the person who risk more gets rewarder more. Off course, 20 years later once the company its huge and sucessful, the CEO may not need to do much work to keep earning money, he is reaping the benefits of previous work.

    And whats up with this rant about CEOs “mooching” off their employees work??? Are you serious?? This is how companies are suppoused to work….off course the CEO has to make a profit out of other people’s work. What would be the fair alternative according to you? Paying the employess the exact same amount of money they end up contributing to the company? Then hiring people would not make any sense… I dont know which planet you live in.

  • Adam Lee

    So you are saying that is simply impossible for annyone to increase his or her income in america? Wow. So much for the land of opportunities. I did not know that ALL the rich people there are rich because they were born from rich parents…

    That is becoming more true all the time, yes. Social mobility in America is lower than it’s been in a long time, and it’s lower than in many of those terrible, socialist European nations.

  • http://eternalbookshelf.wordpress.com Ani J. Sharmin

    @Alejandro:

    (And dont tell me is not a choice when contraception and abortion are so easily avaliable).

    This never ceases to amaze me. The same people who are against social programs to make healthcare more affordable then say that people should have an easy time avoiding unplanned pregnancies due to the availability of contraception and abortion. Add to that the alliance between anti-social-program people and anti-contraception-and-abortion people, and no, these things are actually not “easily available”. And again, any effort to make them more affordable will be seen as (1) horrible immoral baby killing and/or (2) unfair to people in society who don’t want to pay for anything that is helping someone who’s less fortunate.

    If a female 18 year old high shool dropout decides to act stupid and a couple of babies before she hits 20, liberals think that the “fair” thing to do is to put a gun on her hardworking neighbour and force him to give her some money. Right, thats totally fair.

    Paying taxes that go to social programs to help people in a difficult situation isn’t “put[ting] a gun on her hardworking neighbour and forc[ing] himto give her some money”. I’m really tired of this nonsense where paying into social programs that help other people is equated to violence. The neighbor isn’t being treated unfairly by having to pay taxes that help others in society. He benefited from that same society. And by the way, if that neighbor happens to lose his job in the future, or fall into other difficult circumstances, the same social programs will be available for him, too.

    And whats up with this rant about CEOs “mooching” off their employees work??? Are you serious?? This is how companies are suppoused to work….off course the CEO has to make a profit out of other people’s work. What would be the fair alternative according to you? Paying the employess the exact same amount of money they end up contributing to the company? Then hiring people would not make any sense… I dont know which planet you live in.

    Of course, the CEO is going to make more than the average worker … but there’s a problem in society when someone can have a full time job and yet still be poor. What you don’t seem to to understand is that there are people who do work hard, but they are still poor and still can’t pay for things like healthcare, which are really expensive. The fact that they can’t afford something doesn’t mean they’re lazy. And while they can’t make the same amount as the CEO, it isn’t unfair to point out that a company pays their employees really low wages and/or treats them badly. We hear all the time about how we need the “job creators” who run things; well, guess what, they need employees, too, and it isn’t fair to let bosses and CEOs treat people however they want.

    In short, the world isn’t perfect. People end up in bad circumstances that they didn’t expect. People may have made a choice in the past that continues to have a bad effect on their lives for many years, even if they’ve been acting responsibly ever since. People are affected by decisions made by their family members Like DR said above, things don’t get solved by magic. The kind of magic people want to happen when they are opposed to social programs and yet don’t want any problems in society would even be unrealistic in an actual fantasy novel.

  • 2-D Man

    What I am going to say will sound mean and may piss off a lot of people, but I think you should ONLY have kids once you are financially secure and you have done the math and made sure you can afford them.

    I guess the lesson of 2008 was really that nobody should have kids.

  • 2-D Man

    That’s an odd take on, say, Jim Taggart (who gets his cronies in government to put his competitors out of business); likewise Orren Boyle, Fred Kinnan, Tinky Holloway, Kip Chalmers … it’s pretty clear that most of these guys use altruism as a cover for “selfish” (in the ordinary non-Randian sense) purposes.

    I think I read something like this before. Oh yeah! It came from the comment that immediately preceded it:

    …she can’t imagine anyone claiming to care about these things for any reason except as a malicious plot to destroy the real capitalists whom they hate.

    To paraphrase Tracie Harris: restatement is not an objection.

  • Loren Petrich

    Alejandro, you are saying that anyone who receives any money or any service from a government is a looter. A bourgeois exploiter of the masses, er, taxpayers. A parasite on all those poor, hard-working, exploited, oppressed proletarians, er, taxpayers. Marxian terminology deliberately included here.
    So that means that anyone who accepts government military or police protection is a looter. Anyone who drives on a socialist road is a looter. Anyone who visits a national or state park is a looter. Etc.
    Socialist roads are just about all roads except for access roads for private property.

  • Loren Petrich

    Applying the “responsibility” argument more broadly, one can argue that crime victims are not really victims but people who have enabled criminals with their actions. So they must accept responsibility for their becoming victims of crimes, and not demand that governments steal from self-protectors to punish the ones whom they have enabled.

  • PhiloKGB

    Alejandro, since you’ve apparently decided to argue against someone else’s position rather than the one I offered, I’ll just consider what you might have written that would have been appropriate and go from there.

    Obviously there is some small amount of upward social mobility — although not much as Adam noted — the fact of which seems to prompt some to reason thus:
    1 Some poor people find success.
    2 Therefore any poor person can find success.
    3 Therefore all poor people can find success.
    4 Therefore any poor person who doesn’t find success must be doing something wrong.

    Among other flaws, premise 3 can’t be right. There are multiple barriers to success, the least of which is that there simply aren’t enough high-paying jobs regardless of the skill level of the work force. Any individual can succeed, but all individuals cannot. Thus when you claim that a person can work more or gain new skills you’re just talking to an individual; that can’t possibly work for everyone.

  • triffid-pruner

    @DR you say of Ayn Rand she was a “spoiled little-rich-girl who never really grew up…” and “a person who was used to ringing a bell, and being served. So how the food came from the fields to her plate never even crossed her mind…”
    I’m no Rand apologist, but these statements do not accord with the facts. Rand was born into a bourgeois family, daughter of a pharmacist. So her childhood was at most comfortably middle-class. When she was a teenager the family business was confiscated by the Bolshevik government and the family lived in poverty for the rest of her time in Russia. She completed her university studies in Russia with difficulty (purged from the university for being a bourgeois) and moved to the USA where she was again not rich, but supported herself as a junior screenwriter and other jobs.
    In my speculative opinion you can find the shape of her Atlas Shrugged villains in those 1930s-era Bolshevik party apologists who justified destroying her family’s livelihood, purged her from school, and generally jerked people around for ideological reasons. But you won’t find a life of privilege or a disconnect from the world of ordinary workers.

  • Azkyroth

    Ah such amusing posts. Little leftover dupes of our current failed system nattering on about how libertarians don’t know this or that, when none of them have ever read the many libertarian critiques of the opium their master’s feed them. You are doomed, as Ayn Rand described in Atlas Shrugged.

    The influence of narcisso-capitalism is 99% of the reason our current system is failing.

  • Azkyroth

    I suggest that you learn what’s actually going on before you run your mouth.

    [Andy Serkis voice]THAT WOULD KILL US![/Andy Serkis voice]

    Seriously. Has anyone besides me thought about just making a sort of “conceit graveyard” wiki/database/something so that instead of having to facepalm over and over and mutter “not this shit again” and reinvent the cluebat every time we get hit with another round of shallow, thoroughly refuted conceits like these we could just link to it and move on with the grown-up conversation?

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2013/01/breaking-the-surface/ J. James

    @L. Long

    I agree, capitalism and socialism must moderate and tame one another, lest the other run wild and wreck things. Here in America, many of our problems(to say nothing of our gridlocked congress) stem from a stubborn minority who have convinced themselves against all evidence that our problems stem from too much socialism and not enough capitalism, when in reality our problems are the result of too much capitalism and not enough socialism.

    Altogether, I believe that capitalism is the more dangerous force, inasmuch as capitalism can directly influence the government but the government cannot do likewise to capitalism, barring regulations. The problems caused by runaway union demands and other socialist quibbles are far and away overshadowed by the harm that stems from unregulated capitalism’s corruption, monopolies, and exploitation. That said, there must be a balance, and above all, there must be freedom. Freedom to grow, freedom to innovate, and freedom FROM wanton victimization from the vagaries of debilitating healthcare robbery, or an unlivable minimum wage, or an oppressive government’s censorship.

    Rand’s vision of society is almost farcically naïve. She seems to think, judging from her works that I have read, that personal liberties and government cannot coexist, and that the negative aspects of unfettered capitalism either don’t exist or don’t matter.

    There is a reason that no stable society similar to her ideal has ever existed. Such imbalance would cause it to collapse before it could even begin(yes, I’m looking at you, Glenn Beck). Every time a country has even approached her supposed ideal, they have been burned- America’s “Guilded Age” of robber barons, crushing inequality and unregulated monopolies comes to mind, as well as the years prior to the Crash of ’29.

  • smrnda

    Rand seems to be the type of person who thinks too highly of intellectual work, and who forgets that no *idea* is really ever worth anything on its own, but comes with it a need for lots of physical work done by people who will work in horrible conditions, often at gunpoint.

    I’m a programmer, the type of knowledge worker that her works tend to laud. Now, if it wasn’t for the existence of nice little computers put together by virtual slave labor in China, I’d be out of a job. Rand’s protagonists tend to think that once you have an *idea* that the work is done, but that’s obviously false. Knowledge workers are part of the privileged class, and most of us remain willfully ignorant that our lives of convenience aren’t possible without workers who we tend to feel superior too.

    Also, being a CEO can be incredibly easy. Becoming one is not – you have to either be born rich enough, or else you have to basically win the lottery. CEOs delegate the tasks of running things to underlings, and if the company goes under, the CEO gets a huge payout while the workers head to the unemployment lines, or the streets. Authorities tend to insulate themselves against things going badly, even when it’s their fault. Our incentive system rewards privilege, not performance, and libertarianism, though it might remove the possibility of some types of collusion between government and big business, it wouldn’t change that since, in the absence of meaningful government, the rich would be like feudal lords who would make their own rules. Instead of them buying a government which ostensibly is a democracy, they would simply *be* the government.

  • Leeloo Dallas Multipass

    “If a female 18 year old high shool dropout decides to act stupid and a couple of babies before she hits 20, liberals think that the “fair” thing to do is to put a gun on her hardworking neighbour and force him to give her some money. Right, thats totally fair.”

    Is it fair to her kids to let them go hungry? Whatever you think of their mother, the situation is hardly their fault.

    Also, I gotta ask. What is this thing with paying taxes being equivalent to having a gun pulled on you? I hear this all the time. The police are using FORCE! Yes, if you don’t pay your taxes, and if you then continue to refuse to pay your taxes until you get arrested for it, and you then resist arrest, you could, eventually, end up in a situation where you get a gun drawn on you. Just like committing any other crime. It should be a last resort, but ultimately, if the police couldn’t use appropriate force to detain people who break the law, then there wouldn’t really be laws. Just suggestions.

    It may be (and probably is, I’m guessing?) that you don’t think that refusing to pay taxes to support a social safety net should be against the law. Which, you know, I’m sympathetic to that viewpoint–not in the case of taxes, obviously, but there’s plenty of other laws against things I don’t think should be illegal, and it’s ugly to see those enforced. But that’s not any sort of argument against the enforcement of laws in general.

    Also also, “leftovers”. Hee. Is that from the book? I seriously can’t wait for this.

  • GCT

    @Bruce Majors,

    Your blinders are the source of that it pits business people against the masses. How sad for you that you can’t read.

    Sigh. What is it about Rand that brings out the stupid? Of course business is pit against the masses, but it’s not because of Adam. It’s because of little things like CEOs getting 300x what the average worker gets paid. It’s because of things like businesses pushing for and receiving deregulations that then allow them to raid their own businesses for personal profits at the expense of their own workers and everyone else. It’s about them receiving bailouts so that millions of people don’t lose their jobs, only to turn around and pat themselves on the backs and give themselves outrageous bonuses for doing such a good job of fleecing everyone and getting rewarded for it. If you support such things, you’re either one of the people getting rich off of fleecing others, or you’re an incompetent idiot that has no room to chide others for having blinders.

    @Alejandro,
    See the above about Rand bringing the stupid out of people…

    And yeah…his 47% statement. Its an old topic but the core of his statement was right.

    No, it’s not. Blue states generate more income and wealth equality than red states, who receive more tax money than they generate. IOW, the 47% are more likely to be Republicans who end up voting against their own self-interests.

    @MNB,

    Stupid, stupid countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Finland and to a lesser extent The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg and France never realized that they have gone down since 1945.

    Citation please, because many (most? all?) of those countries have better standards of living than the US.

    @Leeloo Dallas Multipass (like your nym by the way)

    Also, I gotta ask. What is this thing with paying taxes being equivalent to having a gun pulled on you?

    It’s because arguing with Randroids is like arguing with little children. Much like the Republican slogan of the last major election (We built this!) the Randroids are under the delusion that any money one makes was wholly and completely of their own work and had nothing to do with anyone else. So, when the government comes calling with taxes, it is stealing from their hard-won money that no one else has any right to. They conveniently forget their public educations, use of public roads and facilities, the other people they rely on who also use those services, police, fire-fighters, and countless other services that they get either directly or indirectly from the government. The real stealing being done is them wanting to obtain those services for free. It makes them the real moochers, ironically enough.

  • Azkyroth

    Stupid, stupid countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Finland and to a lesser extent The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg and France never realized that they have gone down since 1945.

    Would this be the same 1945 in which most of those countries had either been invaded and occupied, had a war fought on their soil, or had to deal with a war next door?

    Do you even receive post cards from reality? Or did you perhaps mean that the countries would have been better off if the war went the other way?

  • ORAXX

    Rand saw her parents stripped of everything by the Bolsheviks which, I’m sure was a very tragic thing in her eyes. The incredible irony, which she was evidently unable to grasp, is the simple fact that she advocated recreating something similar to the repressive socio-economic system that made the Bolshevik’s rise to power possible in the first place. A world where business has no rules and workers have no rights.

  • Alejandro

    @Loren: I am not a hardcore libertarian, as I already mentioned earlier. I do think things like roads, firetrucks, police, military, enforcing contracts, etc are all legitimate functions of the government. I am for smaller government, not against it.

    @Adam. You are right, not bailing out the banks with taxpayers money would have resulted in a big (but temporal) chaos…. ffter which the banks would stop gambling with people’s money in order to avoid bankrupcy. Under the current system, banks that are “too big to fail” can and will keep acting reckless all the want, since they know the government will keep bailing them out at the expense of people.

    Plus, under a true free market libertarian system, banks would not get nearly as big as they are now, due to the lack of assistance from the government and the fierce free market competition between other local and foreign banks.

    I want you all liberals to pay a lot of attention to what is happening in Cyprus right now (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/16/us-eurozone-cyprus-idUSBRE92E02220130316). This is the first time in the eurozone that a levy has been imposed on the capital of the bank accounts itself. The government is openly taking your money even if it means that they have to close the banks so people are not allowed to withdraw any cash…. there are protest breaking out, people saying they will go to strike, etc. They still don’t care. They are going to take your money, wether you want it or not. Don’t like it? Too bad. You pay or you go to prison. Not surprisingly, they justify it with the typical liberal “we should all take responsability” speech. (Its funny how the “we are all in this together” mantra only seems to apply when the situation is bad. Does annyone thinks the government would force the banks to deposit money on people’s account if they ended up making an incredibly high profit or something like that??)

    If you live in Europe, the chances of something like this happening to you in the future are very high. There is still a lot of money in Europe NOW, but look at what a great economy (and economic growth) we have here. Once the Germans run out of money (or get tired of bailing everybody) europe is doomed. Something like that may also happen in the US, even do the odds of it are lower since americans will just debase their own currency by printing trillions of dollars whenever they want (which creates a ton of other problems long term..but I am digressing!)

  • GCT

    You are right, not bailing out the banks with taxpayers money would have resulted in a big (but temporal) chaos…. ffter which the banks would stop gambling with people’s money in order to avoid bankrupcy. Under the current system, banks that are “too big to fail” can and will keep acting reckless all the want, since they know the government will keep bailing them out at the expense of people.

    What must it be like to live in fantasy world? Apparently, that’s where you live.

    The reason the banks were reckless and needed bailouts (which were intended to allow people to keep their jobs) was because of lax governmental regulations – the very same thing that you are contending will fix the problem. Ugh.

  • Alejandro

    Apparently, not as good as living in a world where mommy government gives you some lunch money and then tells you exactly how you are allowed to spend it. Because having a Planned economy worked SO well for Soviet Russia…

    Regarding the whole liberal “a lot of people would have lost their jobs if no bailout had taken place” argmunet, let me remind you that companies do not vanish from the earth when they go bankrupt. All those jobs, facilities and equipment are still there and other business would have probably stepped in to purchase those assets and redeploy them, and many would have been saved.

    And yes, SOME people would have lost their jobs. but then again, nobody said that being an employee is 100% risk free. Many people act like it should, but it doesn’t. You could get fired, or the company you work for could go bankrupt, among other things. If you don’t like it you are free to start your own business.

  • GCT

    Apparently, not as good as living in a world where mommy government gives you some lunch money and then tells you exactly how you are allowed to spend it. Because having a Planned economy worked SO well for Soviet Russia…

    If you can’t argue without erecting straw men, then you’ve lost.

    Regarding the whole liberal “a lot of people would have lost their jobs if no bailout had taken place” argmunet, let me remind you that companies do not vanish from the earth when they go bankrupt. All those jobs, facilities and equipment are still there and other business would have probably stepped in to purchase those assets and redeploy them, and many would have been saved.

    Tell that to Detroit.

    If you don’t like it you are free to start your own business.

    Yes, because everyone has capital lying around with which to start a business.

    I’ll note that you didn’t dare to address the fact that your ideal policies started the mess to begin with and that more of the same is insanely stupid. Instead, you ignored that in order to simply throw out sound bytes and erroneous arguments. This is why I feel like arguing with Randroids is like arguing with children.

  • Alejandro

    So the US has had the political power alternate between democrats and republicans during the last 50+ years, but this whole mess was somehow the LIBERTARIANS fault…

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Good april fools joke. :D

    BTW, my “ideal policies” are nowhere near similar to the corporatist, quasi-socialist policies of the U.S. Like I said before, if you want to see a (more of less) good example of the kind of positive non-interventionist, low taxation economy libertarians advocate , look at Hong Kong.

  • Adam Lee

    @Adam. You are right, not bailing out the banks with taxpayers money would have resulted in a big (but temporal) chaos…. ffter which the banks would stop gambling with people’s money in order to avoid bankrupcy.

    For all your confidence about economic doctrines, Alejandro, you are remarkably uninformed about the history of capitalism. In America, for example, before the FDIC and other regulatory safeties were established, bank runs and panics were a regular feature of the economy.

    Under the current system, banks that are “too big to fail” can and will keep acting reckless all the want, since they know the government will keep bailing them out at the expense of people.

    Yes, that’s a valid concern. All the more reason to put in place additional safeguards, like reinstating the Glass-Steagall Act that forcibly separated commercial banking from investment banking. But again, the problem wasn’t the bailout per se, but inadequate regulation that both permitted the crisis requiring the bailout and failed to put in place enough safeguards to prevent a similar crisis in the future.

    The government is openly taking your money even if it means that they have to close the banks so people are not allowed to withdraw any cash…. there are protest breaking out, people saying they will go to strike, etc. They still don’t care. They are going to take your money, wether you want it or not.

    Once again, Alejandro, you really have no understanding of the issues at stake. What happened in Cyprus isn’t “the government taking people’s money”. What happened was that Cyprus’ banks made bad investments, like buying Greek government bonds that defaulted, which meant they didn’t have the money to give back to depositors who wanted it. That’s what a bank panic is: you know, the kind of thing you were just defending as a normal and healthy part of capitalism. The resolution, allowing Cyprus to tap European funds so all its banks didn’t completely collapse, required imposing losses on uninsured deposits above 100,000 euros. But again, that money was already lost no matter what.

  • GCT

    So the US has had the political power alternate between democrats and republicans during the last 50+ years, but this whole mess was somehow the LIBERTARIANS fault…

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Good april fools joke. :D

    Every post you make confirms that I’m arguing with a child.

    Deregulation led to the financial crisis we find ourselves in. Your proposed solution is further deregulation. How stupid are you?

    (And, FYI, Alan Greenspan admitted that deregulation was the culprit, and he is a Randroid just like you. Of course, just like you he also childishly claims that more deregulation will help in some idiotic way. You may want to let the grown ups talk now.)

  • Bdole

    “I love these incompetent smear pieces on Ayn Rand that leftovers write to drive traffic to their sites. Many of them amount to profiteering pay per view gang bangs of her corpse.”

    Have the Hallmark people contacted you, yet?
    Reviewing a solipsistic, witheringly tedious 1,000-page tome is meant to drive traffic TO this site!?!

    OK, sure, why the hell not.

    Forget keeping up with the Kardashians or Dawkins’s latest faux pas, mass appeal means re-reading Ayn Rand’s cold-war era capitalist fantasies since that’s what EVERYONE’s into nowadays. Adam’s always following the trends that way, gotta make that bling-bling.
    If only Paul Ryan (anagram: Ayn R. Paul) would make a cameo on the comment thread, the bucks would just roll in.