Oh Man, Paul Ryan is In Trouble Now

October 1, 2012 by 40 Comments

I reported the other day Paul Ryan’s comments about not wanting to reinstate the military’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy and you knew that the wingnuts were going to throw a fit about it. The deranged bigot Peter LaBarbera predictably obliges:

Republican Vice-Presidential candidate Paul Ryan’s recent politically correct reversal on homosexuals in the military (to align with his running-mate) illustrates why conservatives often lose in politics by following a defeatist model of “Kvetch and Retreat,” as laid out by New York Orthodox Rabbi Mayer Schiller.

Schiller accurately observed how in political debates with the Left, conservatives typically warn of the dire consequences of a given policy as they passionately resist it. Then, if the Left wins, conservatives “kvetch” (complain, whine) about the loss — but rather than fight doggedly to regain lost political and cultural ground, they often “retreat” by accepting the new liberal status quo and moving on to the next battle.

The “Kvetch and Retreat” phenomenon — repeated again and again – results in a radically transformed society guided by liberal ideology and policy victories that morph into “mainstream” consensus with the help of the morally-challenged media and cultural elites.

Oh hell, that isn’t the half of it. He forgets about the next stage of this historical pattern. After society has largely accepted equality for whatever group they hated and wanted oppressed in the first place (blacks, women, now gays), conservatives then absurdly claim that it was their idea all along.

Filed Under: Equality 40 Comments

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About Ed Brayton

After spending several years touring the country as a stand up comedian, Ed Brayton tired of explaining his jokes to small groups of dazed illiterates and turned to writing as the most common outlet for the voices in his head. He has appeared on the Rachel Maddow Show and the Thom Hartmann Show, and is almost certain that he is the only person ever to make fun of Chuck Norris on C-SPAN.

  • slc1

    Republican Vice-Presidential candidate Paul Ryan’s recent politically correct reversal on homosexuals in the military (to align with his running-mate)

    Wait a minute, has Romney the rat promised not to reverse the revocation of DADT? When did that happen?

  • Randomfactor

    Ryan likes “don’t ask don’t tell” because he thinks it’s about his Medicare plans.

  • http://nigelthebold.com/ nigelTheBold, Venomous Demonic Hater

    Schiller accurately observed how in political debates with the Left, conservatives typically warn of the dire consequences of a given policy as they passionately resist it. Then, if the Left wins…

    …it becomes glaringly obvious the conservatives were wrong about their dire consequences, and it turns out they were merely unintelligent fear-mongering asswipes.

    I really wish they’d think some of this shit through once in a while. It’s like the truth is right there, inches from their face, and as they speak it seems they’re closing in on it — only to take a sharp right turn into reality-denying idiocy.

  • http://www.gregory-gadow.net Gregory in Seattle

    The “kvetch and retreat” comes from the fact that, time and again, conservatives are on the wrong side of history and they damned well know it.

    All truth comes in three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident. We are passing into stage three with regards to gay rights, and the people who made a living fanning the flames of stage two are none too happy.

  • DaveL

    @3, Exactly. That jumped out at me, too. LaBarbera clearly starts his train of thought with these predictions of dire consequences on board, but when it pulls into the station it’s clear they’ve been jettisonned somewhere along the way. He therefore ascribes conservatives’ failure to a strategy of “kvetch and retreat” rather than to the fact their predictions have been consistently and manifestly wrong.

  • yoav

    Schiller accurately observed how in political debates with the Left, conservatives typically warn of the dire consequences of a given policy as they passionately resist it. Then, if the Left wins, conservatives “kvetch” (complain, whine) about the loss while the end of civilization fail to happen— but rather than fight doggedly to regain lost political and cultural ground, they often “retreat” by accepting the new liberal status quo and moving on to the next battle.

  • jhendrix

    My favorite part is this:

    Schiller accurately observed how in political debates with the Left, conservatives typically warn of the dire consequences of a given policy as they passionately resist it.

    And how she leaves out the part where “and a year after the fact, it appears the ‘dire consequences’ conservatives screamed about had no merit”.

    Kind of a critical step, and it explains why the conservatives “retreat”.

  • naturalcynic

    It bears repeating: Facts have a liberal bias.

  • Didaktylos

    @8 – It’s not so much that facts have a liberal bias as that the present generation of liberals has a factual bias.

  • F

    I’ll need a chart of instances where “The Left” wins to truly evaluate this, but I smell bullshit.

  • Sastra

    I think the “dire consequences” of having openly gay men and women in the armed forces has always been that, if we allow this, then we will have openly gay men and women in the armed forces. Oh, no.

    Ditto for gay marriage. Look, if we legalize gay marriage, then, sure as night follows day — gay marriage will be legal!!11!1!!!

    Apparently, that’s enough.

  • MyPetSlug

    Republican Vice-Presidential candidate Paul Ryan’s recent politically correct reversal on homosexuals in the military (to align with his running-mate) illustrates why conservatives often lose in politics by following a defeatist model of “Kvetch and Retreat,” as laid out by New York Orthodox Rabbi Mayer Schiller.

    A couple of points. First, isn’t “don’t ask don’t tell” itself a “Kvetch and Retreat” position LaBarbera is advocating Ryan and Romney defend? Before “don’t ask don’t tell”, it was witch hunts for gays, which I’m sure LaBarbera would much prefer. But, LaBarbera can’t advocate that because he knows that were Ryan and Romney to follow his advice it would be political suicide.

    Second, I’m amused that he thinks that if Ryan or Romney were to insist on re-instating “don’t ask don’t tell”, that this would somehow win them votes. I’m sure in his deranged mind he thinks all Religious Right positions are winning positions.

  • busterggi

    “After society has largely accepted equality for whatever group they hated and wanted oppressed in the first place (blacks, women, now gays), conservatives then absurdly claim that it was their idea all along.”

    Not really. Women have had the vote for nearly a century, the Civil Rights Act passed more than fifty years ago and the Repubes still oppose both. They will never learn.

  • http://howlandbolton.com richardelguru

    Nigel, I must strongly protest your referring to conservatives as “asswipes”.

    This really won’t do.

    Toilet paper and similar products perform a vital and useful function in society. I dare say that society wouldn’t function without them.

    The same cannot be said for conservatives.

  • Nepenthe

    Wow. What kind of audience is so culturally illiterate that “kvetch” is a vocab word that needs defining in the text? No need to actually answer.

  • Abby Normal

    Interesting, I just googled “Kvetch and Retreat” to see if I could find Rabbi Mayer Schiller’s original context. It didn’t show up in the first four pages. What did show up was just about every conservative news source under the sun using the phrase to describe Paul Ryan’s DADT comments. Even adding the Rabbi’s name did nothing to improve results. If you’ve ever wondered what an echo chamber looks like, hit Google try it yourself.

  • eric

    but rather than fight doggedly to regain lost political and cultural ground, they often “retreat” by accepting the new liberal status quo and moving on to the next battle.

    I hate to burst your bubble, but I bet at least a sizeable minority of GOP representatives personally accepted gay equality a long time ago. They hire gay campaign managers and go to their daughters’ gay marriages. They are not merely going to accept a new status quo, they will probably breath a sigh of relief when it arrives, because they look forward to the day when they no longer have to defend a position they find personally odious.

    Sure, there are a bunch of true believers. But the number of GOP congresscritters that manipulate fundies is probably larger than the number that agrees with them.

  • http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    busterggi “Not really. Women have had the vote for nearly a century, the Civil Rights Act passed more than fifty years ago and the Repubes still oppose both.”

    Well, considering it was more a North or South thing back then, no. The GOP opposes them now.

    Abby Normal “If you’ve ever wondered what an echo chamber looks like, hit Google try it yourself.”

    That’s easy. It looks like a small room with some big tubes and fits two guys. Seriously!

  • Ichthyic

    but rather than fight doggedly to regain lost political and cultural ground, they often “retreat” by accepting the new liberal status quo and moving on to the next battle.

    huh. one would think, that if this were actually the pattern, the country would have moved politically to the left…

    odd then that this is exactly the opposite of what has actually happened.

    projection, thy name is “republican”.

  • Ichthyic

    Repubes still oppose both

    yeahbutitwastherepublicanswhoopposedslaverysothere!11!!

    😛

  • yoav

    They did the same chicken little act they do over repealing DADT when women were integrated into the military, and when the schools were deegragated, and when the military was desegregated in the 40’s, and when women were allowed to vote, and when slavery was abolished, and when they were forced to take the religious tests off the state constitutions and allow papists and mormons and jews and, gasp, atheists to hold political office. And after all these times, last time I looked, the sky was still there.

  • hunter

    Ryan quite sensibly doesn’t want to reopen the DADT debate because repeal of the repeal is not going to happen. It’s a losing proposition at this point, and a Romney administration would not only face resistance from the public, but from the military as well.

    Peter LaBarbera, on the other hand, has no sense.

  • Suido

    @ Nepenthe, #15

    Thanks for letting me know my upbringing was culturally illiterate. Not just mine, but any setting where there isn’t a large Yiddish influence on the local language. I guess small town Australia, given its lack of Jews, just doesn’t live up to your high and mighty expectations of cultural literacy. I suppose when I went to uni and met Jewish Australians for the first time, I should have immediately asked for a handbook of words that would help me round out my cultural learning.

    I just hope that my uncultured drivel hasn’t further demeaned this comment thread in your eyes.

  • http://noadi.etsy.com Noadi

    @Suido: Calm down. That comment was directed at American conservatives not at all people everywhere. If you live in the US and don’t know what kvetch means then yes you are culturally illiterate considering the strong influence of Jewish culture on American media.

  • dan4

    @24: “That comment was directed at American conservatives…”

    Nepenthe’s original comment that Suido (rightfully, in my view) took issue with was “What kind of audience…”, not “What kind of American audience…”.

  • dingojack

    Nepenthe is no dope. I’m mean human beings living outside the borders of the US? – that’s unpossible!*

    :) Dingo

    —–

    * clearly, even if such people do exist, they’re hardly equal to a Real ‘mericans! (Perhaps only 3/5th).

  • Ichthyic

    the strong influence of Jewish culture on American media.

    I heard this all my life growing up in So California.

    I have yet to see any evidence presented to really support it though.

    OTOH, there is copious evidence of the influence of singular individuals like Rupert Murdoch.

    so, I’m asking, since you seem so sure:

    what evidence do YOU have of this supposed influence of jews on american media?

  • dingojack

    Ichthyic – Well what do you know FoAW has:

    Journalists and Entertainers (acotrs and muscians).

    I can hear you saying ‘Don’t Rain on My Parade’ (Performed by Barbara Streisand; composed by Jule Styne), well sorry about that.

    😉 Dingo

  • dingojack

    For more lists of the same kind see here.

    Dingo

  • Ichthyic

    Well what do you know FoAW has:

    …a list of journalists.

    so fucking what?

    if they were japanese journalists, would you conclude there is a japanese conspiracy to control american media?

    I’m betting not.

  • Ichthyic

    btw, I realize this is a pervasive myth, but it IS just that, a fucking myth.

    wiki even lists a couple of nice references to debunk it:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories#cite_note-34

    number 35 and number 36 in that list should do.

  • dingojack

    Ah Ichthyic – you’re the one that seems to think there’s some kind of big, bad & evil conspiracy, since you’re the first person to even mention it.

    That there are a lot of Jewish people, who happen to work in the media, and by virtue of working in the industry, influence it, well that’s a fact I’m afraid*.

    Go figure.

    Dingo

    —–

    * NB: Noadi claimed there was a ‘strong’ not a ‘disproportionally strong’ influence, I wonder why you jumped to that conclusion?

  • Ichthyic

    Ah Ichthyic – you’re the one that seems to think there’s some kind of big, bad & evil conspiracy, since you’re the first person to even mention it.

    are you drunk?

    check noadi at 24.

  • Ichthyic

    * NB: Noadi claimed there was a ‘strong’ not a ‘disproportionally strong’ influence, I wonder why you jumped to that conclusion?

    because as i said, I’ve heard mention of this myth by anti-semites in southern california for decades growing up.

    no evidence ever having been presented for it, it was still very pervasive.

    my conclusion from noadi’s post was that it still is.

    now, what the fuck is wrong with you?

  • birgerjohansson

    Um, can we go back on the Ryan topic?

    I know Jiddish has had a lot of influence on Merican English, just like Rom has had a surprisingly big influence on Swedish. So what?

    PS -are there any more synonyms to “schmuck”, schlemiel” and “putz”? I could use them to spice up my Merican :-)

  • Ichthyic

    That there are a lot of Jewish people, who happen to work in the media, and by virtue of working in the industry, influence it, well that’s a fact I’m afraid*.

    and as I said, there are also a lot of japanese people working in the media as well.

    it’s a fact, I’m afraid.

    are you really this dense?

  • dingojack

    Ichthyic – Hmmm which of the two is longer I wonder?

    Dingo

  • http://polrant@blogspot.com democommie

    “They are not merely going to accept a new status quo, they will probably breath a sigh of relief when it arrives, because they look forward to the day when they no longer have to defend a position they find personally odious.”

    What, they have to have a consensus to stop being fucking cowards?

    “the strong influence of Jewish culture on American media.

    I heard this all my life growing up in So California.

    I have yet to see any evidence presented to really support it though.”

    It would probably depend on which media you’re speaking of and what you mean by “effect”. Does an evil jewish cabal control U.S. media*? NO. Is there a lot of reference to jewish/ydiddish culture in media, very specifically movies, theater and music? Yes. Is that “effect” disproportionate? I still eat shrimp and beef in sauces replete with heavy cream.

    Paulie Wingnuts, btw, is a dick. That he’s discovered the joy of etch-a-sketching for the audience of credulous boobs is NOT a surprise.

    * There is some evidence that a group of hardcore reactionary zionists wield considerable influence on U.S. foreign policy.

  • sunsangnim

    I thought it was the left that always retreated and accepted the conservative status quo. You would think with all the high-profile mass shootings recently that Democrats would be fighting for gun-control legislation. But they long ago accepted that the NRA won the debate on that issue.

    Meanwhile the GOP wants to start a fight over birth control and abortion. They’ll fight for decades after they lose.

  • http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    sunsangnim “Meanwhile the GOP wants to start a fight over birth control and abortion. They’ll fight for decades after they lose.”

    “Start”? It never stopped.


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