Interview With Author of Ugandan Bill

Rachel Adams somehow managed to get an interview with David Bahati, the Ugandan legislator who wrote the now-infamous “kill the gays” bill. Bahati is also a longtime and very prominent member of The Family, the shadowy Christian group that has high-ranking members in governments all over the world (most especially ours). The interview shows just how deluded, irrational and hateful the man is.

What evidence has been taken to the Legal Affairs Committee that people are recruiting children into homosexuality?

The committee has considered the bill and passed it and got all the necessary information it needed to make a decision. We have abundant evidence of what is happening in our community—parents and children have come to us. We’re in the business of defending the family between man and woman, as the holy scripture and Qur’an dictates.

Ah yes, both the Quran and the Bible prescribe the death penalty for homosexuality. That’s a good reason to reject both of those “holy” texts as barbaric. Basing public policy on such vile beliefs is disgusting.

What research is the bill based on?

We have enough information about how our society works. Family is between man and woman. Anything beyond that should be outlawed. Most of the research we have is just from life. My mom was with my dad. I know the Bible and the Qur’an are against homosexuality. When an anal organ is used for things it’s not supposed to be used for, it’s hazardous. I don’t need to be taught anything beyond that.

Evidence? We don’t need no stinking evidence. We have gut feelings and religious beliefs.

Have you seen the Ugandan Human Rights Commission’s (UHRC) position on the bill? It states that most of the provisions violate international human rights standards.

I know this. It adds no value to the process of negotiation. It’s actually a waste of time. Of course they have enough resources to splash around, but it takes nothing from the will of the Ugandans to defend the family as between man and woman. They will not be given an inch. Actually, if the law was there, these publications wouldn’t be there. That’s why we need the law.

That’s one of the big problems with the law. It not only bans homosexuality, it bans advocating for the rights of gay people entirely. Fascist much?

And what about the effect on aid that the passing of the bill might have?

Uganda is a sovereign state. We are doing this through a democratic process. Aid with the the condition of homosexuality is not welcome in Uganda. There are millions of Americans and Europeans who support Uganda. It would be a mistake for any political leader in the West to attach the condition of homosexuality to aid…

But there are LGBT people in Uganda.

Don’t remind me that you took me as a slave. Don’t remind me that you took our resources to enrich your countries. Don’t tell me you’re more superior than I am. You have funded us for over 50 years—have you changed anything? These activists are agents of imperialism and we’re not going to take it easily. They are agents of colonialism. How can you continue to act like slave masters?

So let me get this straight…Giving aid to Uganda is expected and demanded; putting restrictions on that aid to support human rights, that’s “imperialism.” And Uganda would never have even heard of the Bible or its barbaric views if it was not introduced by the rule of the British colonialists. So who exactly is being imperialist here?

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marcus

Bahati=God-sucking scum. Disgusting.
thecalmone

And what about the fact that a lot of heterosexual couples, married and not married, enjoy anal sex?
Gregory in Seattle

I had an opportunity last week to meet and talk with someone who is studying HIV vaccines in Uganda. The country used to be the African leader in treating HIV, as it was one of the first countries to take steps to treat the disease as a disease, and one of the first to agressively promote safer-sex and condom use.

He believes that this is why fundamentalist Christians, almost always from the US, have targeted Uganda. In Africa, HIV is overwhelmingly a heterosexual disease, and the country’s science-based approached was the leading proof of the lies told by religious extremists. So, religious extremists came in and started pushing the meme that HIV is God’s judgement against gays: get rid of homosexuals, and the disease will magically vanish. Desperate people, simplistic answers…. this is the result.

With the shift in public opinion that has led to the “kill the gays” law, he is seeing his work destroyed as science gets replaced by ignorant fanaticism. No one is willing to step up to help test vaccines and other prophylaxes, lest they be tagged as “promoting Satan’s work.” In his opinion, the law is irrelevant anyway: the cultural shift has meant that people perceived as being gay get attacked by violent mobs and don’t often live long enough to face legal prosecution. Incidents of “corrective” rape have also skyrocketed in recent years.
jnorris

Did Mr Bahati say he would rather give up western aid money rather than change the law? If so I’m good with that as long as the people know he made the decision for us.

Unfortunately there is nothing produced in Uganda that I can refuse to use or buy. I do not have a direct way to demonstrate my disgust with their government. I am sure that if I could find something to boycott that would be dismissed as imperial intervention.
machintelligence

Idi Amin must be smirking in his grave.
Ichthyic

There are millions of Americans and Europeans who support Uganda. It would be a mistake for any political leader in the West to attach the condition of homosexuality to aid…

I do hope the US govt. will educate him on the subject of supplying aid to countries not just denying rights, but murdering their own citizens? or is that just wishful thinking?
Ichthyic

…maybe some hope after all?

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/06/27/507020/uganda-military-aid-gay-rights/
Ichthyic

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2963.htm

U.S. assistance includes promoting good governance, human rights, and multiparty democracy; professionalizing police and military institutions for better service delivery and adherence to human rights; addressing health threats including malaria and HIV/AIDS; supporting the Ugandan Government’s plans in agricultural productivity, food security, and nutrition; and addressing development issues such as global climate change and biodiversity.

write your congressional reps and get them to focus on that.
Doug Little

I am sure that if I could find something to boycott that would be dismissed as imperial intervention.

I know that Anonymous have been attacking their government websites and vow to continue to do so as long as they persecute gay people.
Ichthyic

In his opinion, the law is irrelevant anyway: the cultural shift has meant that people perceived as being gay get attacked by violent mobs and don’t often live long enough to face legal prosecution. Incidents of “corrective” rape have also skyrocketed in recent years.

ah, likely withholding aid will not help. It’s too late if this is being driven from the bottom up.

*sigh*

religion.

poisons.

everything.
Gregory in Seattle

@Ichthyic #10 – And like I said, this all started about ten years ago, when the US Talibangelicals started exporting their hate. The corrupted the churches, who then corrupted the people, who then started demanding laws to “protect” them.
Ichthyic

so, instead of focusing on Uganda, the US should start looking to revoke the passports of evangelical missionaries.

so not kidding.
Modusoperandi

Sometimes, people make me sad.
cptdoom

@jnorris:

Unfortunately there is nothing produced in Uganda that I can refuse to use or buy. I do not have a direct way to demonstrate my disgust with their government. I am sure that if I could find something to boycott that would be dismissed as imperial intervention.

The only boycott I could conceive of that might have some impact would focus on the embassy and consular offices here in the US. Basically, we should be boycotting all the companies that do business with the Ugandan embassy or the consular offices, in order to put pressure on the country. How effective can they be getting money from all those “christians” who support them in this country if they can’t get office supplies or internet service?
John Hinkle

David Bahati, the Newt Gingrich of Uganda.

Besides the fact that he’s a first class asswipe, I get the feeling he’s hiding something. Money from sources he’d rather not have exposed? A paid “luggage handler”? Bullied as a child? I bet Hannibal Lecter could tease it out of him.
slc1

Religion is the root of all evil.
heddle

the US should start looking to revoke the passports of evangelical missionaries.

Sure. Like my two friends Josh and Abbie from New Hampshire. She is a medical doctor and runs a clinic attached to an orphanage. He teaches and does construction, digs wells, etc. They have adopted two orphans, one Ugandan and one Liberian. The Liberian, a little girl, was near death from neglect (when they found her), abandoned because of cerebral palsy and epilepsy.

It would be such a good idea to revoke their passports. The people left without medical care would be so grateful for your concern.
John Hinkle

heddle@17

Thanks for that perspective. Oh, and another thing, I’m glad you’ve been around these parts all these years.
Ichthyic

Like my two friends Josh and Abbie from New Hampshire. She is a medical doctor and runs a clinic attached to an orphanage. He teaches and does construction, digs wells, etc. They have adopted two orphans, one Ugandan and one Liberian. The Liberian, a little girl, was near death from neglect (when they found her), abandoned because of cerebral palsy and epilepsy.

good thing I added the extra word, MISSIONARY then, because otherwise, it’s just like I’d be saying we should prevent people from helping, and that would be a strawman.

Thanks for that perspective.

what perspective???
Ichthyic

seriously, Heddle entirely IGNORES what the problem is, and thinks this is a counter?

fuck me, people are easily distracted by shiny objects.
heddle

Heddle entirely IGNORES what the problem is, and thinks this is a counter?

I know what the problem is and I deplore the persecution of homosexuals in Uganda.

I’m just pointing out how benevolent it is of a white man like you living in a rich country to unthinkingly and cavalierly propose a solution that will likely result in death of innocents. And feel good about it.
Ichthyic

I’m just pointing out how benevolent it is of a white man like you living in a rich country to unthinkingly and cavalierly propose a solution that will likely result in death of innocents. And feel good about it.

bullshit, given the problem IS missionary work, in and of itself, which clearly HAS resulted in DEATH.

again, you clearly ARE ignoring the problem; trying to cover it with the “good” things missionaries have done, that, btw, have NOTHING AT ALL to do with them being missionaries.

man, you are one intellectually dishonest fucktard.

I truly am sorry for those that still do not see this is so about you.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG)

I deplore the persecution of homosexuals in Uganda.

I’m sure gays being beaten, imprisoned or murdered as a result of the activities of your fellow conservative Christians will be greatly comforted to know that.
heddle

man, you are one intellectually dishonest fucktard.

Maybe, but I don’t advocate simpleminded, blunt-force solutions.

Because the bottom line is still: if you revoke their passports, African children will probably die. You, however, will be sitting in your cozy home sipping a cold beer and feeling good about sticking it to those missionaries. That’s mighty white of you.

You didn’t even attempt a nuanced approach–no doubt that would tax your abilitites.
heddle

I’m sure gays being beaten, imprisoned or murdered as a result of the activities of your fellow conservative Christians will be greatly comforted to know that.

The difference is that I do not support it, speak out against it when I can, and do support missionaries (like Josh and Abigail) who are just as opposed to the persecution and who also do something to help Ugandans.

I am mostly powerless to stop the persecution, but I do what I can. That is far better (in my opinion) than calling for the deportation of people who are actually helping.

Do you do anything?
F [disappearing]

I keep hearing the phrase, “Strike as non-responsive.”
Ichthyic

I can, and do support missionaries

Heddle:

why is there the need for people that want to help others to even have their religion involved in the first place?

have you even considered that?

it is VERY clear that it is indeed religious ideology that has caused signficant cultural damage here.

so, why include it at all?

Doctors without borders is not a religious organization. they help people all the time, so obviously there is nothing unique about religion that causes people to help.

instead, it always just seems to get in the way… like it does with your thinking. hell you demonstrate here near daily.
Joshua

I hope that was a phone interview, cause I wouldn’t have been able to get through it without punching that fucker in his homophobic mouth. Metaphorically, of course.
heddle

Doctors without borders is not a religious organization. they help people all the time, so obviously there is nothing unique about religion that causes people to help.

Well, your solution makes some sense if you said: and we’ll leave the missionary doctors in place until such time as they can be replaced by a doc from Doctors w/o borders.

You didn’t say that. Nah. It was just: toss ’em out.

Even that is not the preferred solution for a place so poor–the preferred solution is to add more doctors–be they secular or missionary. Let them work side-by-side.

But at least a replacement-strategy would have been better than what you offered.

Why is there the need to get religion involved? Because we are Christians and are called to help people and spread the gospel.

I hope you don’t sink to the level of a Ravenesque comment suggesting that they probably withhold treatment or food from people who won’t accept Jesus as their personalordandsavior. Because, of course, they don’t.

I would be in favor of deporting/arresting missionaries involved in persecuting anyone, or who get involved in politics and give support to politicians who want to persecute anyone.
F [disappearing]

I’m just pointing out how benevolent it is of a white man like you living in a rich country to unthinkingly and cavalierly propose a solution that will likely result in death of innocents. And feel good about it.

No, heddle, you’re full of it. You know what was meant, and it is pretty clear from context anyway. Revoking passports of people who export evil. And I wouldn’t limit it to missionaries, but that was the topic. Don’t act like such a thickie so as to use that as an excuse to post your “but Christian x does this good thing”. We know, and they don’t need any fucking advertising. Good for your friends. I hope they know they are also supporting, possibly unintentionally, the ability for you to be a smug privileged ass with delusions of correcting wrong-thinking privileged white male atheists.

Good grief, get a clue.
heddle

No, heddle, you’re full of it. You know what was meant, and it is pretty clear from context anyway.

Yeah right. He wrote:

so, instead of focusing on Uganda, the US should start looking to revoke the passports of evangelical missionaries.

And has had several iterations where he could have said “oh. but not people like that you idiot.” Instead he doubled down with the usual whine about “why do they have to bring religion into it.”

There are smug privileged asses here but it is not me, it’s people who think they have “brilliant” solutions, and who think help from a missionary is worse than no help at all–and who feel quite good about imposing that moral calculus on people who are desperate. Because you know better than they do what’s best for them.

You’re an ass.
Rodney Nelson

Heddle is in favor of missionaries. There are the good ones who preach goddism while helping people and the bad ones who preach goddism while trying to get people killed. Heddle would give them all passports, his god will sort them all out in the end. As for the dead gays, well, that’s the price for bringing god to the poor, benighted Ugandans who would never have heard of god otherwise. Besides, Heddle’s a calvinist. Obviously his god wouldn’t choose homosexuals to go to Heaven, so they might as well get killed anyway.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG)

I am mostly powerless to stop the persecution, but I do what I can. – heddle

Not unless you make clear to your co-religionists that there is nothing wrong with the practice of consensual homosexuality you don’t. I am aware that there are some Christians who do this; I’d be surprised to find that you are one of them.

Do you do anything?

As it happens, I have just yesterday made a donation to All Out, as part of an urgent campaign against the proposed Ugandan law. I’ll take the opportunity to urge you and others to do the same, which you can do at the link provided. I receive regular emails from this organisation, and sign petitions they bring to my attention on this and other issues. I make monthly donations to MSF and WDM, both of which provide assistance to Ugandans which is not tainted by homophobic belief systems, although to my knowledge they do not campaign there on this issue. I work against homophobia in general, in part by opposing religion, which is one of its main sources, but also by condemning it and arguing against it when I come across it among atheists, which is lamentably common.
heddle

Rodney Nelson

Your comment would certainly be in competition for the single dumbest one I have ever seen. You write:

There are the good ones who preach goddism while helping people and the bad ones who preach goddism while trying to get people killed. Heddle would give them all passports, his god will sort them all out in the end

Ignoring that I wrote in #29: I would be in favor of deporting/arresting missionaries involved in persecuting anyone, or who get involved in politics and give support to politicians who want to persecute anyone.

And then added:

Besides, Heddle’s a calvinist. Obviously his god wouldn’t choose homosexuals to go to Heaven, so they might as well get killed anyway.

Which contains a totally gratuitous reverence to Calvinism, and one that displays nothing but ignorance thereof. There is no such teaching in Calvinism as ” Obviously [Calvinism’s god] god wouldn’t choose homosexuals to go to Heaven”.

I mean, really. That is an extraordinarily dumb comment. Try to work on your game.
heddle

Not unless you make clear to your co-religionists that there is nothing wrong with the practice of consensual homosexuality you don’t. I am aware that there are some Christians who do this; I’d be surprised to find that you are one of them.

I can’t make it clear to them– that is an impossible demand. The best I can do is speak out against persecution. Teach about it in Sunday school. Talk about it with other Christians. I really don’t get this recurring demand that I have to solve the problem or I’ve done nothing. There is some sort internecine war in the internet atheist community, is there not? The slymepitters vs the A+s? Or something like that? Is it your responsibility to “make it clear” to the other side that they are wrong?

Also, making it clear that “there is nothing wrong with the practice of consensual homosexuality” (regardless of how I feel about it) is a red herring. Nice try. The only issue is stop persecuting, stop killing, stop arresting, stop discriminating. A person’s position on homosexual activity is irrelevant, as long as they only use it to guide their own choices.

As it happens, I have just yesterday made a donation to All Out, as part of an urgent campaign against the proposed Ugandan law. I’ll take the opportunity to urge you and others to do the same, which you can do at the link provided.

That’s cool. I will check them out. If they seem legit I will make a contribution.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG)

Really, there’s no need to accuse heddle of views he doesn’t hold. His worship of the divine torturer is quite vile enough to make any decent person want to vomit.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG)

heddle,

There is some sort internecine war in the internet atheist community, is there not? The slymepitters vs the A+s? Or something like that? Is it your responsibility to “make it clear” to the other side that they are wrong?

It is my duty to try – and I do.

Also, making it clear that “there is nothing wrong with the practice of consensual homosexuality” (regardless of how I feel about it) is a red herring. Nice try. The only issue is stop persecuting, stop killing, stop arresting, stop discriminating. A person’s position on homosexual activity is irrelevant, as long as they only use it to guide their own choices.

No, it is not: it is the irrational belief, whether founded on religion or not, that there is something wrong about consensual homosexual practice, that underlies the persecution, killing, arresting, discriminating. As long as you hold that belief, you are part of the problem.
heddle

It is my duty to try – and I do.

As do I.

No, it is not: it is the irrational belief, whether founded on religion or not, that there is something wrong about consensual homosexual practice, that underlies the persecution, killing, arresting, discriminating.

That makes no sense. If I think abortion is wrong, but accept the law of the land, do not impede anyone’s access, do not bomb clinics, do not threaten doctors, etc. I do not accept your moral calculus that I am part of the problem. It’s nonsense. A free society demands that we respect each other’s rights, not that we agree with each other’s positions.
tomh

Missionaries have always been about the mission first. Without the golden opportunity to convert the savages and save their poor souls from the fiery pit they wouldn’t be there at all. As heddle said, Christians spread the Gospel, or at least their interpretation of it. And the beauty of it is that they all do it on the US taxpayer’s dime. We are all supporting the missionaries, the ones who spread the Gospel in Uganda and all the others in the world. Aren’t we swell folks.
Rodney Nelson

Which contains a totally gratuitous reverence to Calvinism, and one that displays nothing but ignorance thereof. There is no such teaching in Calvinism as ” Obviously [Calvinism’s god] god wouldn’t choose homosexuals to go to Heaven”.

Sorry, heddle, but I know about TULIP. Your god runs a lottery and the “select” go to Heaven and everyone else spends eternity in Hell. That’s how calvinistic propaganda describes how calvinism works. Damn, it’s too bad I know more about your fucked up religion and your asshole of a god then you do.

Your comment would certainly be in competition for the single dumbest one I have ever seen.

Even dumber than believing in a god that hates the majority of humanity? ‘Cause that’s pretty damn dumb.
heddle

Rodney Nelson

Damn, it’s too bad I know more about your fucked up religion and your asshole of a god then you do.

Yeah. Sure you do. No doubt. You are a real expert.
steve84

According to Calvinism god has already chosen who goes to heaven before the universe was even created. So nothing anyone does matters one iota. Oh and we are all evil and even the good things we do, we do for bad reasons. It’s pure nihilism and the most fucked up, inhuman and immoral belief system ever devised. Only insane and totally brainwashed people could believe in that crap.
Michael Heath

heddle write:

The best I can do is speak out against persecution. Teach about it in Sunday school. Talk about it with other Christians. I really don’t get this recurring demand that I have to solve the problem or I’ve done nothing.

Do you speak out regarding the discrimination against gays and their families in your church? Do you overtly promote gays be admitted as members where they can be unrepentantly out of the closet? Do you demand that your church allow its gay members to marry each other if they meet the very same standards heterosexuals in your congregation meet?

It would be easy to argue you should quit; but I happen to think fighting for reform from within is far more heroic and much needed. In this case we need champions to defend gay people from the evil which is done to them here in the U.S., where the source of that evil predominately comes from one place in the U.S. – its conservative churches. So your moral culpability given you’re at least a regular and devout congregant of a conservative Christian church is far higher than the average American’s when it comes to the persecution gays continue to suffer. A person who accepts such culpability head-on rather than avoiding or denying it; who instead fights for change, that’s someone we should honor.

Where do you stand when it comes to the strictures of your own church’s behavior towards gays and their families? Off to the side, engaged, or supportive of your church’s discrimination against gays and their families?
Ichthyic

and we’ll leave the missionary doctors in place until such time as they can be replaced by a doc from Doctors w/o borders.

intellectually dishonest, all the way down.
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Gregory in Seattle

@heddle – You “deplore” the persecution of gay men and women in Uganda, and yet you enthusiastically support the foundation upon which that persecution was built. How very Christian of you.
Nick Gotts (formerly KG)

That makes no sense. If I think abortion is wrong, but accept the law of the land, do not impede anyone’s access, do not bomb clinics, do not threaten doctors, etc. I do not accept your moral calculus that I am part of the problem. It’s nonsense. A free society demands that we respect each other’s rights, not that we agree with each other’s positions. – heddle

It is not nonsense. I’m not denying your right to your bigotry or to expressing it; I’m saying that your bigotry contributes to the atmosphere in which gays (and women seeking abortions and abortion providers, if that bigotry extends to them) are persecuted. That you deny this just illustrates the extent to which you practice self-deception.
rr

heddle:

I would be in favor of deporting/arresting missionaries involved in persecuting anyone, or who get involved in politics and give support to politicians who want to persecute anyone.

According to David Bahati the Christian god wants homosexuals to be persecuted. How do we verify that he is wrong and you are right?
ragingapathy

Staying out of the Heddle battle… But US Imports from Uganda are mostly Coffee and related beverages, and metals. Difficult to boycott metals, since they’re generally ores for manufacturing. But coffees and teas are usually labeled as to their origin.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/product/enduse/imports/c7780.html
slc1

Re IT @ #47

According to David Bahati the Christian god wants homosexuals to be persecuted. How do we verify that he is wrong and you are right?

The answer to that one is very simple. The good professor will claim that Mr. Bahati is no true Scotsman.

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