Fischer Praises India for Outlawing Homosexuality

As soon as I heard that the Supreme Court of India has reinstated that country’s barbaric ban on homosexuality, I knew that the wingnuts would be praising that ruling. Bryan Fischer does not disappoint and offers his usual idiotic arguments. Remember, this is their real goal — not to stop same-sex marriage but to once again put gay people in jail.

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  • Michael Heath

    I find it ironic that Americans appear to be shocked* with the India ruling. As if such thinking is both primitive and ancient history here in the U.S. But it’s only been ten years since Chief Justice William Rehnquist along with Justices Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia joined in J. Scalia’s dissent defending the criminalization of homosexual sex acts. In spite of the clear and unambiguous language of the equal protection clause in the 14th Amendment.

    The dissenting opinion, which was poorly reasoned as we expect from the over-rated Scalia, also had some weapons grade psychological projection. That was Scalia accusing the majority of joining the so-called culture war.

    What a long we’ve come in ten short years.

    Ed writes:

    . . . this is their real goal — not to stop same-sex marriage but to once again put gay people in jail.

    I agree, but I doubt most would concede this. I bet more than 50% of conservative Christians would vociferously dissent with this characterization of their group or where they personally stand. However, my reading of history reveals that fundamentalism is a slippery slope. Successful migration to one regression point compels the group to descend one step further. E.g., success restricting abortion rights leads to more effort to restrict contraception rights; in spite of similar rate conservative Christians use birth control to the general population. Next would be to remove equal protection laws for women in general, like in the work place, in spite of the fact conservative woman also work.

    Most conservative Christians seem oblivious that they possess this attribute. Submission to their authority figures remains blind, slavish, and childish – just as their New Testament commands them to be. We often see educated non-Christians who are politically active that are more literate in the Bible than conservative Christians who claim the Bible as their primary premise for many of their positions. A parallel phenomena I’m seeing is that educated liberals are increasingly becoming aware of recent scientific studies on the psychological profiles of authoritarians and conservative religionists, whereas the subject group remains oblivious to their own attributes.

    *I’m not lumping Ed in this group, that would be a major category error.

  • D. C. Sessions

    Remember, this is their real goal — not to stop same-sex marriage but to once again put gay people in jail to death.

    FTFY, Ed.

  • mastmaker

    The situation in India is more nuanced. TL;DR version: A lower court had set aside the existing law and had decriminalized homosexuality. Supreme Court has essentially said law/constitution cannot be ignored or selectively enforced. So, it has asked the legislature to pass suitable amendments to decriminalize homosexuality.

    That said, the situation on field appears a little disheartening, since elections are approaching and it looks like the right wing conservative party may end up winning it. The best chance they have of passing an amendment may be with the current government. Once passed, it is not going to be easy to turn the clock back, even with a super majority, for the new right wing government.

  • MikeMa

    Bryan Fischer, hateful, decidedly non-xian, bigot. The man is a walking (and unfortunately talking) billboard for fundamentalist, regressive bullshit. Why does he hate our constitution so deeply?

  • cottonnero

    He’s using the “against nature” and the “plumbing doesn’t match” arguments. Ignoring (or being ignorant of) the prevalence of homosexual behaviour in non-human animals, and ignoring the existence of a lengthy string of enjoyable sexual activities that do not require P-in-V sex, or for that matter, even both a P and a V.

    But I suppose we’ve already long since established that the lack of well-thought-out arguments does not seem to impair his success in his target market of selling bullshit to morons.

  • jnorris

    I for one am grateful to have Bryan “Fister” Fischer keeping me informed of all the homosexual trends. Mr Fischer’s obsession with homosexual sex gives me a one stop news source and I don’t have to monitor the Internet 24/7. I do wish he would illustrate his talks more.

  • Artor

    MikeMa, why do you say Fischer is a non-Xian? He, and a large number of Xians, and even non-Xians like myself would disagree.

  • Moggie

    Something like 98% of Indians are non-Christian, so surely from Fischer’s viewpoint they’re hell-bound anyway, regardless of their orientation. Seems to me that, if he cares about Indians, he should be urging them to abandon “false gods”. That’ll surely go down well, and then they’ll be receptive to his advice about sex.

  • John Pieret

    It’s a good law from 1860? Gee … I wonder what other laws from 1860 Fischer would like to enforce? There a a few Ameican examples I could think of …

  • Michael Heath

    MikeMa asserts:

    Bryan Fischer . . . decidedly non-xian . . .

    WTF??? He’s an archetype of a conservative Christian. 22% – 28% of the population, enough to make a majority of the GOP’s voting base, have very similar views, think like he thinks, and use equivalent arguments to Mr. Fischer.

    Yes his politics and bigotry has him obstructing public policy in line with many New Testament edicts on how to treat others, but that is a defining attribute of conservative Christianity.

  • vmanis1

    Fischer is an Xtian in exactly the way that Stalin was a Marxist. Both use phrases and tropes that sound authentic, but they turn them completely inside out. (On Stalin, see Animal Farm.) It has been said over and over again that the New Testament has essentially nothing to say about gay sex, apart from the famous passage in Romans (which is part of an overall argument on Paul’s part that everybody is a sinner), and a few less-famous passages elsewhere that appear to mention `homosexuals’, but in fact have Greek originals that are quite obscure in meaning (see John Boswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality).

    This fundie obsession with ladyparts and manparts is completely at variance with the overall message of Jesus, which is about love and compassion and redemption (OK, he did curse a fig tree, I’ll grant that.) Even Paul, who appears to have had some odd hangups about sex, doesn’t display the obsession of the modern fundie.

    I’m not a Christian, so it’s not for me to say who is and who isn’t. But it seems perfectly fair to denounce Fischer for not living up to the criteria found in the scriptures he claims to consider holy.

  • Pierce R. Butler

    Michael Heath @ # 1 – Who’s “J. Scalia”?

  • Michael Heath

    vmanis1 writes:

    Fischer is an Xtian in exactly the way that Stalin was a Marxist. Both use phrases and tropes that sound authentic, but they turn them completely inside out.

    The attributes of conservative Christians have been around for 1500-plus years. Fischer is a typical type of Christian with a long tradition, e.g., lynching black people, administration of slavery, theocracy under the divine right of kings assertion, anti-intellectualism going back to the 4th century, severe retribution for refusing to submit to the faith and the god-ordained authority, etc.

    vmanis1 writes:

    It has been said over and over again that the New Testament has essentially nothing to say about gay sex, apart from the famous passage in Romans (which is part of an overall argument on Paul’s part that everybody is a sinner), and a few less-famous passages elsewhere that appear to mention `homosexuals’, but in fact have Greek originals that are quite obscure in meaning (see John Boswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality).

    The Fischer type of Christians are dominated by their political ideology. That doesn’t make them any less Christian but instead is a long-held attribute of their type of Christianity, which has been around since the 4th century. In addition such Christians’ holy dogma includes the Old Testament. That provides plenty of rationales to institute what Fischer advocates, and do some parts of the New Testament. The fact it’s not consistent with other parts is an attribute of their brand of Christianity.

    There have been compelling Christian arguments to deny Christians biblical justification for their bigotry towards gay people. The most compelling I’ve encountered is Peter Gomes’ The Good Book: Reading the Bible with mind and heart. But this is liberal theology, liberal to the point even Ed would claim some of these adherents aren’t even Christian since they’ve diluted the veracity of the Bible down to being agnostic or even denying the divinity of Jesus.

    Just like there’s ample passages in the Bible to support slavery, there’s also ample passages condemning gay sex. So Fischer and all conservative Christians who supported slavery and now condemn gay people are being consistent with both the Christian tradition and their Bible.

    vmanis1 writes:

    This fundie obsession with ladyparts and manparts is completely at variance with the overall message of Jesus, which is about love and compassion and redemption (OK, he did curse a fig tree, I’ll grant that.)

    This is in direct contradiction with much of the New Testament regarding Jesus. Yes love, compassion, and redemption are part of the message. But violent revenge towards others, disowning one’s family, blind/slavish/childish submission to authority and the threat of eternal hellfire are also messages emanating from the biblical Jesus character.

  • Anneliese

    The first part of “Flagrant Conduct” by Dale Carpenter gives a bit of the history of anti-homosexuality laws in the US. I recommend it, it’s about the Lawrence v. Texas case and surrounding history. (The book is more coherent than I am today!)

  • Michael Heath

    “J. Scalia” is an abbreviation of the title, ‘Justice’. When referring to the Chief Justice, the abbreviation is CJ.

    I’m using his title rather than Mr. because I was referring to J. Scalia in the context of his job.

  • Pierce R. Butler

    Michael Heath @ # 15: “J. Scalia” is an abbreviation of the title, ‘Justice’.

    So how did it happen that “… Antonin Scalia joined in J. Scalia’s dissent …”? Does his seniority entitle him to sign an opinion twice?

  • laurentweppe

    Remember, this is their real goal — not to stop same-sex marriage but to once again put gay people in jail

    This is not their real goal either. Their real goal is to make sexual freedom a privilege of the highborn, and reducing sexuality to breeding more workers for the rest of mankind.

  • MikeMa

    non-xian in the sense that most of the xians of my acquaintance think he is an asshole for his single minded, money-grubbing, attention-grabbing hate. I do recognize that xians in particular and most religions in general act ‘badly’ at times. Definitions of ‘badly’ vary. Choose from many instances throughout history right up to the present.

  • Rentseeker

    Bryan Fischer illustrates the massive projection that conservative Christians engage in the context of gay rights. Conservative Christians are afraid (or whip up fears) that gays will jail Christians for practicing their faith, seduce and convert other people’s children, and destroy the institution of marriage, so conservative Christians want to jail “practicing” gays, take away children from gay parents, convert all children to their flavor of Christianity, and dissolve the wrong kinds of families. It’s ugly and frustrating.

  • freehand

    laurentweppe: Remember, this is their real goal — not to stop same-sex marriage but to once again put gay people in jail

    This is not their real goal either. Their real goal is to make sexual freedom a privilege of the highborn, and reducing sexuality to breeding more workers for the rest of mankind.

    That’s the business end of the Tea Party. The goal of the religious end is to make sexual freedom a privilege of those righteous servants of God who will feel genuinely sorry afterwards, and reducing sexuality to breeding more souls for the Church to save and incorporate.

    See the difference?

  • freehand

    MikeMa: non-xian in the sense that most of the xians of my acquaintance think he is an asshole for his single minded, money-grubbing, attention-grabbing hate. I do recognize that xians in particular and most religions in general act ‘badly’ at times. Definitions of ‘badly’ vary.

    My preacher granpda (SBC) would have said that those attributes are the admirable ones for True Christians®.

  • Ichthyic

    But violent revenge towards others, disowning one’s family, blind/slavish/childish submission to authority and the threat of eternal hellfire are also messages emanating from the biblical Jesus character.

    most definitely. and often very much whitewashed by universalist xians.