Perkins: Only ‘True’ Christians Have Religious Freedom

Tony Perkins responded to a question from a caller about a group of liberal Christian churches suing the state of North Carolina over their ban on same-sex marriage by saying that only those he deems to be “true Christians” have any claim of religious freedom.

Caller: I wanted to see if I can get your response to the members of the clergy in Charlotte that are suing for the right to perform gay marriages, saying that the ban on gay marriage infringes on their religious rights. It’s my understanding that they are a Christian organization, it’s normally the other way around, and so I’m curious to hear what you got to say about it.

Perkins: I would use that term ‘Christian’ loosely. That title is — let’s talk biblical, here’s the deal, it’s like with the Religious Freedom Restoration Act that we worked on in Mississippi and failed in Arizona and other places, here’s a test of what is a true religious freedom, a freedom that’s based on orthodox religious viewpoints. It has to have a track record, it has to come forth from religious orthodoxy.

You cannot point to the Christian faith and say that same-sex marriage has been a key teaching of the church. You can only point to the opposite, that the church has stood against sexual immorality in terms of sexual relations of those outside of marriage and in particular homosexual behavior. There is no place, there is nothing for them to stand on and say that same-sex marriage has standing in the orthodox Christian faith.

They’re playing games here, trying to turn the effort that so many Americans are now faced with of preserving religious freedom, they’re now trying to do a jujitsu move and say, ‘We’re going to use religious freedom to say we have a right to do same-sex marriage.’ Well, there is no foundation for that, there is no orthodox Christian holding that has ever said marriage is between people of the same sex.

Such profound ignorance of the history of his own religion. It was orthodox Christian teaching for centuries that slavery was divinely commanded, so only anti-abolitionists could assert their religious freedom at that time, right?

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  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    True Christians?

    Which ones would those be?

    The ones that love their neighbours and are compassionate to them and model their lives on the best of what Rabbi Yeshua taught or, y’know, the other sadly more common hypocritical Republican votin’, Tea Party luvvin’ gun-totin’ bible-bashing variety that actually more does the opposite o’that?

  • joeina2

    This horrible bigots bullshit made me think: what are the legal qualifications for claiming “freedom of religion” exemptions? i.e. When a person makes a constitutional challenge based on the violation of religious freedom, what burden do they have to prove they are legitimate religious beliefs and not simply made up in an attempt to weasel out of the law.

    I’m thinking of the Native American Church and Peyote (as a positive example) or a bunch of dreadlocked, middle class white kids claiming to be rastafarian so they can smoke weed (not an actual legal case but I have encountered these people in real life).

  • http://howlandbolton.com richardelguru

    There are times that I miss the thirty-years war and those old Byzantines killing each other over the odd iota…

  • http://www.facebook.com/josef.mulroney Josef Mulroney

    “I’m thinking of the Native American Church and Peyote (as a positive example) or a bunch of dreadlocked, middle class white kids claiming to be rastafarian so they can smoke weed (not an actual legal case but I have encountered these people in real life).”

    not prosecuting any people for drug use would put an end to this problem.

  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ ^ joeina2 : Ramen!

    How can ya pick sincere religion from satirical or judge what anybody in their heart ‘o’hearts *really* believes?

    (Always wanted to try peyote myself. Also Rastafarians are cool -and a lot less harmful than most relig types I reckon. Could be wrong, dunno that many of ’em personally.)

  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @3. richardelguru : Wow! To think I feel old sometimes these days! 😉

  • Scr… Archivist

    Here’s an idea: The Christians can go off in a corner and get their stories straight. Then, after they all agree about doctrine, they can present it to society at large. In the mean time, the rest of us will just go on our merry, secular way.

    How about it?

  • jeffreykramer

    Perkins is a contemptible bigot and liar, but he’s not saying (not here, at least) that only true Christians have religious rights. He’s saying that the particular rights granted to religious believers under the RFRA only apply — according to the statute — if the religion has a history of requiring a certain practice. Thus a “dry” community can’t prevent Catholics from using wine for sacraments, but it might prevent a Pastafarian from claiming beer as part of their sacraments, because there isn’t a history of this being central to religious practice. (I don’t know whether there is in fact an explicit qualification to that effect in the RFRA, but it wouldn’t be surprising if there were.)

  • raven

    Most of the people who voted for Obama or vote Democrat are…xians. It’s simple demography.

    Of course they aren’t Oogedy Boogedy fundie xians like Perkins. Fundies only make up around 26% of the US population and 13 % of world xians.

    Christianity, 285,480,000 or 13.1 percent of all Christians are Evangelicals.

    Religion in the United States – Wikipedia, the free …

    en. wikipedia. org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

    The majority of Americans (73%) identify themselves as Christians and about … According to a 2012 survey by the Pew forum, 36 percent of Americans state that ….

    As of 2007, members of Evangelical Churches comprise 26% of the American …

    If Perkins wants to claim that only fundies are True Xians, who cares. That just makes True Xians a small and fading minority of the US population.

  • birgerjohansson

    To find out if someone is a True Christian you must perform the water test.

    If they sink, they are True Christians.

    If they float, they are demonic abominations, and must be burned.

  • D. C. Sessions

    here’s a test of what is a true religious freedom, a freedom that’s based on orthodox religious viewpoints. It has to have a track record, it has to come forth from religious orthodoxy.

    In other words, it doesn’t apply to heresies like the Anabaptist Heresy, that engages in the blasphemous practice of adult baptism. The Founders’ generation rightly treated that as heresy and suppressed it, and any claims by its practitioners were improper and should be rejected.

    Original Intent. Gotcha, Chief.

  • dingojack

    jeffreykramer – ” He’s saying that the particular rights granted to religious believers under the RFRA only apply — according to the statute — if the religion has a history of requiring a certain practice. ”

    Genesis 22:2

    “And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.”

    Ezekiel 39:17

    “And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood”.

    Like these you mean?

    Dingo

  • eric

    here’s a test of what is a true religious freedom, a freedom that’s based on orthodox religious viewpoints. It has to have a track record, it has to come forth from religious orthodoxy.

    Say, Tony…aren’t you Protestant?

  • tbp1

    Christians have been saying other Christians aren’t really Christians ever since there are been Christians. Countless millions of people have died in the name of defining who is, or is not, a Christian.

    Just one of the many things that led me on the path to non-belief.

  • tbp1

    Aaargh, I want editing capacity. That should be “ever since there have been Christians” above, not “are been Christians.”

  • garnetstar

    My understanding of the North Carolina anti-equality law is that it doesn’t just mandate the state not recognizing same sex marriage. It makes any church official performing such a ceremony a criminal, subject to arrest.

    So, since someone performing a religious-only ceremony mandate by their sky daddy isn’t a crime for anyone else (you can say any mumbo-jumbo you like, freedom of speech and all that), there’s no rational basis for this section of the law. Performing religious-only marriage ceremonies that aren’t legally recognized isn’t criminal when the spouses are of opposite gender.

    In the cases joeina2 mentions @2, those are against the law for everyone, but this practice is only criminal when the spouses are gay.

  • Doc Bill

    Ann Coulter once commented that the Episcopal Church was “hardly Christian.”

    All these little Mom ‘n’ Pop “ministries” consider themselves to be True ™ Christians and all others heretics. Here in Texas the odious Hagee refers to the Catholic Church as the “whore of babylon,” whatever that means. Of course, Mom ‘n’ Pop includes the Osteen Christian entertainment empire that rakes in about $600,000 a week in offerings alone. It’s money for nothing and tax free.

    Just a bunch of authoritarian grifters, every last one of them.

    As for the CWA, I’d be glad to donate a few bucks to buy them a Sybian Saddle if anyone’s interested.

  • Mr Ed

    Religious freedom is guaranteed to everyone, persons of faith, people of traditional faith, the judeo-christian faith, all christian denominations, only true christians, me alone

  • dingojack

    What like this?

    Matthew 3:13-17

    13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

    14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

    15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

    16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

    17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

    That Jesus person sure is blasphemous.

    Dingo

  • rabbitscribe
  • http://festeringscabofrealityblogspot.com fifthdentist

    @ 7,

    And those votes on doctrine must be unanimous or they don’t count.

    That should make things interesting.

  • Artor

    “It has to have a track record, it has to come forth from religious orthodoxy.”

    Okay, everyone. It appears that Tony is a Catholic, and all those Protestants who diverged from the orthodoxy are heretics, and not True Xians™. I’m sure all his fellow church-goers will be delighted to hear that.

  • Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden

    here’s a test of what is a true religious freedom, a freedom that’s based on orthodox religious viewpoints. It has to have a track record, it has to come forth from religious orthodoxy.

    Yes. That’s what religious freedom means: the freedom to follow the dictates of religious orthodoxy!

    :sigh:

  • raven

    the freedom to follow the dictates of religious orthodoxy!

    :sigh:

    Which religious orthodoxies? There are at least thousand of them.

    It’s all just lying anyway. Perkins means his fundie death cult of xianity, which is, oddly enough, a recent invention and a reaction to the modern world. I’m sure the Mainline Protestants, JW’s, Mormons, SDA’s, and Catholics would dispute that.