No, Obamacare is Nothing Like the VA

With the scandal over secret waiting lists at the VA, Republicans are now trying to claim that this is just like the Affordable Care Act. But the VA and the ACA are not even remotely alike. Fox News, of course, is pushing that argument like mad and PolitiFact calls this a pants on fire lie.

On Fox News’ The Five, four of the show’s pundits built the case that if Obama digs deeply into the VA, it will raise more questions than he would like about how the Affordable Care Act is structured.

When a Fox News panelist described the VA as a “single-payer” system (where the financing of health care is run through the government), co-host Kimberly Guilfoyle chimed in.

“If he (Obama) shines a light on that, if we actually have some illumination there, then you’re going to see this is really what the rest of you all are going to get: One big fat VA system in the form of Obamacare,” Guilfoyle said.

Using the same logic, co-host Eric Bolling later claimed that 500 people per year “are going to die waiting” for treatment because of Obamacare.

This has been the relentless framing from the right from the start, it’s the big lie they just keep repeating. The ACA is a “government takeover” of health care and “socialized medicine.” The truth is that it’s nothing of the sort. It’s subsidized private insurance. The government hasn’t nationalized hospitals. There isn’t even a public option in the law, much less anything like a single payer system or nationalized health care.

They know this, of course. They aren’t wrong, they’re lying. Their focus groups told them that this is an effective line of attack, so the fact that it’s false simply does not matter.

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  • Pen

    So I guess what the Republicans would like to do is shut down the VA. Then there would be no more waiting lists. Any veteran who wants health care can just get it instantly by forking out the necessary dollars, right?* Because that would be just like shutting down the ACA.

    * Anyone who wants to discuss what happens if they don’t have the necessary dollars is a Muslim commie atheist lowlife anti-American….. (froths at mouth)….

  • http://polrant@blogspot.com democommie

    As a veteran who actually USES the VA healthcare program I can tell you that so far those callous death panelistas have performed 3 MRI’s, loads of x-rays, very high order blood panels, every six months (and an explanation for what is what when I have a checkup) a bumscope, several 4 week sessions of PT for my bad shoulder and lower back, eye exams and excellent spectacles, dermatology exams and treatments and a recent surgery. I just got a call this morning from scheduling, I’m going in for a podiatric consult to see if I need orthotics or new feet.

    Freedom ain’t free and neither is my medical care–oh, wait, I’m wrong it is, now. It wasn’t always free. It cost almost $500 over the last four or five years for prescriptions and non-medical expenses. I’ve fallen below the poverty level and now I don’t make co-pays.

    Johnny Boner was on “The Press is meat” or whatever that show with Tweety Matthews is called. He wants to use the Phoenix scandal as a “Benghazi Moment”.

  • eric

    Using the same logic, co-host Eric Bolling later claimed that 500 people per year “are going to die waiting” for treatment because of Obamacare.

    If Obamacare became VA-like single payer system and 500 people per year died waiting for service, that would be a huge step up from the republican’s preferred sytem. Lie, a hundred-fold reduction in unnecessary deaths. It would be an enormous improvement over what we have now.

  • =8)-DX

    @democommie #2

    Good to hear you’re getting proper medical treatment. Also kudos for using “bumscope” seriously in a sentence ^.^

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    Look, Obamacare is awful just like the VA, Obamacare is Socialism just like the VA, Obamacare is killing Americans just like the VA, and we have to repeal Obamacare and keep the VA.

     

    You Democrats want to make everything Obamacare, which nobody is for (despite polls showing people being for it as long as it’s not called “Obamacare” and Republicans being for everything in it except paying for it), so since you Far Left Extremists won’t go for the Republican plan (of repealing Obamacare and then doing nothing while, if pressed, publicly espousing ideas they’ll never enact), how about you look at the Sensible Centrist plan, where Both Sides meet-in-the-middle, reach-across-the-aisle, work for the Good of America, and repeal Obamacare and then do nothing and also you take the blame both for Obamacare and also for not-Obamacare?

  • http://festeringscabofrealityblogspot.com fifthdentist

    Here in Georgia it’s estimated that due to the refusal of the governor to expand Medicaid* will result in, at the least, three unnecessary deaths per day (and could be five per day), which is nearly 1,100 per year for just one state.

    * The governor recently signed into law a measure that prevents future governors from expanding Medicaid without the approval of the legislature.

  • http://mostlyrational.net tacitus

    I really hope healthcare is the next conservative domino to fall after gay marriage is done and dusted. I don’t think there has been another political football where there has been so much crap spouted by those opposed to the idea of national healthcare, especially by those who are actually benefiting from those programs right now

    It’s as though the healthcare programs in most of the rest of the world, and the half the healthcare in America doesn’t exist (except when things go wrong). And it’s as though Americans with private healthcare live twice as long as everyone else and get gold-star treatment for every single malady they ever have, no questions asked, and if only the government cut taxes, even the poorest, oldest and sickest Americans would be able to afford heart surgery and the years of cancer treatments needed to keep them alive.

  • Michael Heath

    Ed writes:

    The truth is that it’s [Obamacare] nothing of the sort. It’s subsidized private insurance. The government hasn’t nationalized hospitals. There isn’t even a public option in the law, much less anything like a single payer system or nationalized health care.

    This isn’t true. Obamacare also increases the number of people who use Medicaid.

  • comfychair

    This is proof the VA needs another budget cut, right? (see also: USPS)

  • http://polrant@blogspot.com democommie

    Sweet FUCKING JESUS doin’ a pole dance at the RNC! How could I have been so blind.

    This IS what they want.

    They need to be able to put veterans on the same level as the other bums who want to mooch a living offa the job creators.

    So they got shot to pieces in Iraq or Afghanistan or other places that no smart GOP candidate or incumbent would be dumb enough to volunteer for. So, fuckin’ what? That’s THEIR fucking problem. If they’da been good soldiers they wouldn’t have got wounded. And don’t even get me started on those cowards with their PTSD.

    It’s likely inevitable that we will have more and more incidents of veterans losing their shit and shooting up a place. It would be nice if it happened on K Street instead of Main Street.

  • comfychair

    Of course it’s what they want, they’re sociopaths. Their lives revolve around the ‘gubmint doesn’t work!’ shtick and any part of gubmint that does appear to work makes them apoplectic. It’s a threat to their paychecks.

  • http://mostlyrational.net tacitus

    Their lives revolve around the ‘gubmint doesn’t work!’ shtick and any part of gubmint that does appear to work makes them apoplectic.

    And the most ridiculous thing of all is that they are often the very people who depend on these services the most. I knew someone who ranted daily about the government socialism of Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare. She was a cancer survivor who was on permanent chemotherapy to keep the cancer at bay. She had lost her job, exhausted her savings before going onto Medicaid, where she exhausted those benefits, and ended up on permanent disability with her ongoing medical treatment being covered by Medicare — for the rest of her life.

    She would quite literally have been dead years ago if not for socialized government healthcare, yet even though I pointed this out to her many times, she would only double-down on her hatred for government-funded welfare programs.

  • Anri

    tacticus @ 12:

    She would quite literally have been dead years ago if not for socialized government healthcare, yet even though I pointed this out to her many times, she would only double-down on her hatred for government-funded welfare programs.

    IOKIYAR.

    The latter-day ‘for me but not for thee.’

  • Anri

    Sorry for double-posting, but – from the OP:

    They know this, of course. They aren’t wrong, they’re lying. Their focus groups told them that this is an effective line of attack, so the fact that it’s false simply does not matter.

    Y’know, I’m less sure of that. If you never ask troublesome questions, like “Is that actually true?”, you never have to learn troublesome truths, like “No, it’s complete horse manure.”

    The thing about willful ignorance, it’s a two-fer: dishonesty and ignorance in one bright, shiny, talking head package.

  • http://motherwell.livejournal.com/ Raging Bee

    With the scandal over secret waiting lists at the VA, Republicans are now trying to claim that this is just like the Affordable Care Act.

    Actually, it is: Republicans want to avoid paying for either program, and are trying to blame Obama for the consequences of their relentless defunding.

  • http://polrant@blogspot.com democommie

    With apologies to Warren Z.

    Teabaggista (to the tune of “Carmelita”)

    I hear REAL MurKKKan Patriotz ™ on my radio

    And FOX bravery holds back the dark.

    And I’m there with Cliven at the Bundy Redoubt

    And wavin’ signs at Lafayette Park

    Teabagista hold me tighter

    I think I’m sinking down

    And I’m exercisin’ my 2nd ‘mendment rights,

    At every fast-food shop in town

    Well, I’m sittin’ here in my “Throng of ONE!”

    With my AR and my Glock.

    Cuz them black helicopters could land anywhere

    And I’ve seen black guys on my block

    Teabagista hold me tighter

    I think I’m sinking down

    But, s’long’s I got this here gun

    They don’t dare call me a KKKlown.

    Well, I got my ‘scrips at Walmart

    And some Cheetos and jerky too

    But Medicare is just for me.

    There ain’t no funds for you.

    Teabagista hold me tighter

    I think I’m in jeopardy

    Gummint’s hands are all over my Medicare

    The death panels are comin’ for me.

    Teabagista hold me tighter

    I think I’m in jeopardy

    Gummint’s hands are all over my Medicare

    The death panels are comin’ for me.

  • http://polrant@blogspot.com democommie

    “The thing about willful ignorance, it’s a two-fer: dishonesty and ignorance in one bright, shiny, talking head package.”

    Which is why we have the democommieologism, “Indignorance”–for those who are uninformed and hubristically proud of that fact.

  • eric

    tacitus:

    I really hope healthcare is the next conservative domino to fall after gay marriage is done and dusted. I don’t think there has been another political football where there has been so much crap spouted by those opposed

    Well, I think they are going to change their polemics on immigration before they change their polemics on health care. (IMO) they aren’t going to lose many future elections by rhetorically opposing health care, but they could if they keep alienating hispanic immigrants.

    Of course if by “the next domino to fall” you mean “the next issue they lose on, solidly, changing the political landscape forever,” then I think it’s pretty safe to say the first and biggest health care domino has already fallen. They aren’t going to be able to appeal the ACA, IMO it’s a done deal at this point. They can probably fight future expansions or attempts by the fed to use taxes to support it, but health care that you can purchase separately from your employer, regardless of past health history, is IMO here to stay.

  • howardhershey

    Apparently the Republicans do want to do away with the VA and go to “vouchers” that can be used for private insurance, assuming the vets most in need can find such insurance. But after they give out the vouchers, hey, it is no longer their problem.

  • comfychair

    democommie@#17:

    ‘Indignorance’, HA! I’ve called it ‘belligerent ignorance’, but yours says the same thing but in a slicker package. Dumb, and proud of it, with a ‘fuck you!’ on top.