Joyner Has No Idea What the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics Says

Rick Joyner is really on a roll lately. First he claims to have gone to heaven, then he says that some Christians can eradicate the Ebola virus by their mere presence, and now he’s saying really ignorant things about the 2nd law of thermodynamics and evolution.

As Joyner explained it, the Second Law of Thermodynamics states that “everything will trend toward disorder unless it is acted upon by an outside, intelligent source.” That is, of course, not what the law says at all, but in Joyner’s understanding, it proves that evolution is false.

Joyner argued that the Second Law of Thermodynamics proves “absolutely to the kazillionth power” that all of the events necessary to create life on earth could not have happened by accident, before asserting that “a lot of people don’t understand how that impacts the theory of evolution.”

But Joyner does.

“It fundamentally disproves the theory of evolution,” he said. “The theory of evolution is impossible. It is absolutely impossible. That’s why they’ve never found the missing link. It doesn’t exist. If it existed, you’d be finding it everywhere all the time. It would be everywhere you look … And sooner or later, we’ve got to realize how stupid the theory of evolution is. You have really got to be out of touch to believe something like that.”

Give that man an honorary doctorate in creationist stupidity.

httpv://youtu.be/0WHeNYpSJkQ

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  • http://www.electricminstrel.com Brett McCoy

    Oh fer cryin’ out loud… anyone with at least a high school education in science can figure this one out.

    And all species are “missing links” (i.e., they are all transitional forms)

  • John Pieret

    anyone with at least a high school education in science can figure this one out

    That is the sad and frustrating thing about it. No matter how many times we refute it, there will always be people who dredge this (and many similar arguments) up and pat themselves on the back for being smarter than tens or hundreds of thousand scientists when, in fact, they are just deluding themselves.

  • alanb

    That sound that you hear is thousands of Ph.Ds slapping their foreheads and saying, “D’oh! If only I had listened to Rick Joyner before wasting my education and my career.”

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    To be fair, the evidence for evolution is pretty weak. It only looks good to you Darwinists because it’s all on your side.

  • http://Reallyawakeguy.blogspot.com somnus

    As an engineer, this argument is professionally offensive to me. I hate it with a passion.

    Not only is it wrong, it’s completely ass-backwards. The Laws of Thermodynimics are things that human beings wrote to describe the reality they observed. If we observe a reality in which matter can spontaneously self-organize, we don’t write a law that says that’s impossible!

  • Alverant

    @2 Well why let a perfectly good argument go to waste? It shouldn’t matter if it can be debunked by anyone paying attention in high school! It sounds great ergo it’s true.

  • Childermass

    “To be fair, the evidence for evolution is pretty weak. It only looks good to you Darwinists because it’s all on your side.”

    Gravity is on our side too. But admittedly the evidence of gravity is fairly weak. I have never seen any evidence that mysterious force is attracting my mass to the mass of Ken Ham.

  • grumpyoldfart

    And thousands of tithe-payers around the country will gasp in amazement and say, “Isn’t our pastor absolutely brilliant?”

  • bushrat

    THIS JUST IN: Neanderthal was found today in America. Anthropologists today confirmed that the first living specimen of Neanderthal was observed talking to cameras. He was quoted as saying , “everything will trend toward disorder unless it is acted upon by an outside, intelligent source.” and “absolutely to the kazillionth power”, before he defecated in his hand and flung it at the camera. Scientists studying this rare phenomenon have tried communicating with the individual, but have had little success in deciphering his incoherent growls and hoots of ‘Liberal Progressives’, ‘Global Warming’s a gooberment conspiracy’ and ‘Evolution, Shmevolution’. Scientists have hypothesized that neanderthals are a social animal, that are easily scared by change. They believe that there may be more hiding in our society, banding together into groupings such as the Republican Party and now the Tea Party. Stay tuned for updates.

  • eric

    I want to hear more about this ‘to the kajillionth power’ thing. Please, Rick, write the equation down for me, I want to see that exponent.

  • eric

    And thousands of tithe-payers around the country will gasp in amazement and say, “Isn’t our pastor absolutely brilliant?”

    For a second there I thought you were going to go Star Wars on him: “I felt a great disturbance, as if millions of working brains suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.”

  • D. C. Sessions

    This particular line is a wonderful example of how the Will to Believe can trump reason and a good education. I know someone quite well who has a Master’s in electrical engineering — he scored 4.0 on two different upper-division thermodynamics classes. And yet, thanks to (in order) his politics, which led to his religion, he cites T2 to me as disproof of evolution.

    He can even quote the law perfectly, in both prose and math. And it just. does. not. penetrate.

  • Chiroptera

    “It fundamentally disproves the theory of evolution….”

    Interestingly, his “version” of the Second Law also fundamentally disproves the theory that human beings start out at conception as single cells and then develop into fully grown organisms.

    Just for fun, I sometimes tell fundies that the Second Law is not “everything tends to disorder”; instead it is: “It is impossible to build a device whose sole final result is to extract heat energy from a heat resevoir and convert it entirely to work.” Then I ask (batting my eyelids innocently) how that applies to evolution.

  • felidae

    “everything will trend toward disorder unless it is acted upon by an outside, intelligent source”

    I know the old canard is “Knowledge is power” , but there is a big fucking difference between energy and “intelligence”, so this fucktard can’t even state the second law, much less discuss its implications in the real world

  • coffeehound

    Joyner argued that the Second Law of Thermodynamics proves “absolutely to the kazillionth power” that all of the events necessary to create life on earth could not have happened by accident, before asserting that “a lot of people don’t understand how that impacts the theory of evolution.”

    Damn it! That’s it! Show’s over, pack it up and move it along, nothing more to see here at this atheisty, sciencey site! Never even considered this one, but he’s got us now…..

  • DaveL

    the Second Law of Thermodynamics states that “everything will trend toward disorder unless it is acted upon by an outside, intelligent source.”

    This is what I call the Creationist Law of Thermodynamics. Under this law, a glass of water left outside in winter never freezes*, because water crystals are more orderly than liquid water. Also, perpetual motion machines are possible, because they’re designed by an outside intelligence. Needless to say, the Creationist Law of Thermodynamics does not apply in the real world.

    *Unless you think real hard at it.

  • dmcclean

    I would ask what color the sun is on their planet, except that clearly their planet doesn’t have a sun. Since ours does, their argument is gibberish.

  • corwyn

    “It fundamentally disproves the theory of evolution,” he said. “The theory of evolution is impossible. It is absolutely impossible.”

    Actually if we found that the theory of evolution was found to be irreconcilably in conflict with the the 2nd law of thermodynamics, we would probably need to fix the second law, not evolution.

  • congenital cynic

    I’m rather familiar with the second law, and I can say definitively that there is not one word in there about things being acted on by an outside intelligence. While it’s true that in a closed system, through which there is no flux of matter or energy, things will tend to disorder, the earth is not a closed system. The biosphere is a very open system with massive amounts of energy impinging on it daily. And there has been a ton of work done on self-organization in systems that are pushed far from equilibrium. And it has also been demonstrated that a very simple set of “generational” rules, if iterated repeatedly, can yield products of considerable complexity. And lots of other topics come to bear on evolution as well, and I doubt he knows anything of any of them. These are things that any curious person can learn about. But it just confirms that Joyner doesn’t know fuck all about the second law, or probably anything else about science.

  • dhall

    #9 bushrat – now, now, don’t insult our neanderthalensis cousins like that.

  • whheydt

    It gets noted quite regularly in discussion on Panda’s Thumb that if the 2nd Law barred evolution, it would also bar reproduction.

  • Doc Bill

    Joyner has a high school education. You get what you get, another windbag authoritarian.

  • http://sidhe3141.blogspot.com JamesY2

    Soil is disorderly. Plants are orderly.

    Joyner, you idiot, anyone who’s ever had to weed a garden knows they could fertilize it by having you over to talk to it!

  • dingojack

    According to Joyner, SN1987A never happened*, despite all evidence to the contrary.

    Dingo

    ———

    * As the Si fusion process goes on, the resulting Fe core becomes more and more electron degenerate thus it’s entropy decreases to a finite level. (Of course, this is counter balanced by an increasing level of entropy in the outer shells). Eventually the Fe core approaches the Chandrasekhar Limit and collapses into neutron degeneracy**, resulting in a core-collapse supernova, such as SN 1987A.

    ** neutron stars are have very low entropy, much less than the progenitor star.

  • birgerjohansson

    D. C. Sessions @ 12,

    Tell him to leave the Terminator out of this.

  • brucegee1962

    @19 congenital critic

    The biosphere is a very open system with massive amounts of energy impinging on it daily.

    I assume you’re talking about sunlight, right? Well, I happen to know from a certain video I watched back in fourth grade, “Our Friend Mr. Sun,” that sunlight is actually intelligent. So I guess that proves creationists are right, hmm?