Haredis on Flight: Still Terrified of Vaginas

We see more than enough of Christian and Muslim misogynists and authoritarians, how about some Jewish ones? On a flight from New York to Israel, a large group of ultra-Orthodox Jews of the Haredi sect caused huge problems by refusing to sit next to women on the plane.

However, things didn’t go so smoothly on one El Al flight carrying a large group of haredim, as well as secular Jews, that departed from New York’s JFK and landed in Israel at 5 am Wednesday.

According to the passengers who were on the plane, their fellow ultra-Orthodox travelers refused to sit next to women prior to the takeoff, which not only delayed the flight, but caused actual chaos to ensue on the plane.

“People stood in the aisles and refused to go forward,” said Amit Ben-Natan, a passenger who was on board the plane.

“Although everyone had tickets with seat numbers that they purchased in advance, they asked us to trade seats with them, and even offered to pay money, since they cannot sit next to a woman. It was obvious that the plane won’t take off as long as they keep standing in the aisles.”

Passengers claimed that though the El Al flight crew informed them they do not have to agree to a switch, the flight’s captain said over the PA system that the flight would not take off as long as people were standing.

“This is completely inconsiderate of the non-haredi travelers. I don’t know many airlines that would allow their passengers to act like that,” said Bar Natan.

Galit, another traveler on the flight, said the ultra-orthodox passengers suggested she and her spouse split up to better accommodate their desired seating arrangements: “Why should I agree to switch places?” she said with anger.

After she refused, the haredi man seated next to her conceded, but it was only temporary: “I ended up sitting next to a haredi man who jumped out of his seat the moment we had finished taking off and proceeded to stand in the isle.”

It seems that after takeoff a large portion of the haredi travelers took to the isles to pray which, according to their fellow travelers, crowded the isles and caused the flight to be unbearable.

“I went to the bathroom and it was a mission impossible, the noise was endless,” Galit said.

They should have removed them from the plane and left without them. Every single one of them. You don’t want to be near women, get your ass off and swim to Israel.

POPULAR AT PATHEOS Nonreligious
What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • thebookofdave

    The Haredi travelers were only reminding us of the need to honor the place of tradition in society. Women also have their honored place, and it’s the role of tradition to put them in it.

  • D. C. Sessions

    You don’t want to be near women, get your ass off and swim to Israel.

    Or book a charter. Or, FFS, book a block of seats together in advance. This isn’t rocket surgery.

    Of course, if you point is to make a scene so you can prove that you’re more frum than everyone else …

  • blf

    The airline should have just handed out free cans of cootie disinfectent, with instructions to spray it on the bigots’s own assigned seat.

    (I am tempted to suggest the compressed air should be “kosher”, but I doubt the bigots are that stooopid…)

  • doublereed

    I wonder what the fallout from this will be. What will be El Al’s response?

  • Alverant

    Let me guess, any criticism of how the haredis were treated would be spun as antisemitism. To paraphrase Discworld character Commander Vimes, “Just because someone is a member of a minority doesn’t mean they can’t be a selfish entitled asshole.”

  • Chiroptera

    Huh. I can only assume that had bearded members of a certain other Abrahamic religion been as disruptive they would probably have been detained before the flight took off or definitely arrested after the flight landed.

  • doublereed

    Well they probably would’ve have been escorted off the plane if it wasn’t El Al.

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    Weren’t The Flying Pudendums a high-wire act?

     

    blf “The airline should have just handed out free cans of cootie disinfectent, with instructions to spray it on the bigots’s own assigned seat.”

    Coochie-Away?

  • dhall

    This is the sect that has a prayer for men that includes a phrase in which god is thanked for making them men, and not women. Talk about religiously-imposed misogyny and a total lack of independent thinking . . . assholes.

  • http://cheapsignals.blogspot.com Gretchen

    The Haredi travelers were only reminding us of the need to honor the place of tradition in society.

    The proper place of a tradition which makes men think they should not sit next to women on a plane is in the toilet.

  • D. C. Sessions

    Thank you, Gretchen, you may collect your Internet from Modus.

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    /hands internet to Gretchen

  • Michael Heath

    dhall writes:

    This is the sect that has a prayer for men that includes a phrase in which god is thanked for making them men, and not women. Talk about religiously-imposed misogyny and a total lack of independent thinking . . . assholes.

    It should be noted that OT Jewish misogyny is also part of the New Covenant in Christianity. That’s at least due to NT passages justifying discrimination against females because they all supposedly carry Eve’s rebellion with them. That this stain from Eve makes women sufficiently less than men, to the point men are commanded to discriminate against females in a way they don’t towards other men.

  • http://cheapsignals.blogspot.com Gretchen

    Thank you. I expect I’ll get to hold the internet on my lap and pet it soothingly for….oh, about 30 minutes before Modus takes it back from me again. :-)

  • dhall

    Michael Heath #13 – I certainly understand all of that too, trust me. I’ve experienced it. I merely focused on the specific group this article is about.

  • grumpyoldfart

    They should have removed them from the plane and left without them.

    Ha! What a joke. No airline company is going to knock back that much business in one day. El Al has probably already written apologies to the Haredi and offered travel discounts to compensate for all the inconvenience.

  • thebookofdave

    @Gretchen #10

    The proper place of a tradition which makes men think they should not sit next to women on a plane is in the toilet.

    Just as long as it’s not on the toilet. The plight of these gentlemen stirs something deep within me, and I need that aisle cleared. And no, I can’t hold it until we debark.

  • sc_770d159609e0f8deaa72849e3731a29d

    The proper place of a tradition which makes men think they should not sit next to women on a plane is in the toilet.

    As it has only been possible for men to refuse to sit next to women on a ‘plane for about a hundred years, can it be called a tradition at all?

  • AMM

    ultra-Orthodox Jews of the Haredi sect

    “Haredi” is not a sect. It’s a Hebrew word for what we goyim call “ultra-Orthodox” and encompasses a wide variety of sects. For instance, Lev Tahor and the Lubavitchers are both haredi groups, but quite different.

    I have to wonder why the Haredi men didn’t anticipate the problem and make arrangements beforehand to sit together. My guess is that the sect(s) they belong to are so intent on not being aware of the sinful outside world that such things didn’t occur to them — we’ve had issues in our area with certain Haredi groups that seem to prefer to be unaware of secular laws or the concerns of their non-Haredi neighbors.

  • tsig

    You don’t count the seats

    with god on your side.

  • denada

    Don’t worry – the airline is on it:

    “The company will examine the complaints and if some passengers are found to have acted out of line the company will examine its future steps.”

    Phew – pretty tough stance. What’s the betting that they find that anyone who took a photo was acting “out of line”.

  • lorn

    Easy solution, stuff them into cargo containers and they fly in the marginally heated but pressurized hold where they will not disturb the other passengers and they can pray as loud as they like. They each should be fitted with a diaper and a bottle of water.

  • thebookofdave

    @denada #21

    Pretty much 1:1, until the video goes viral.

  • LightningRose

    Frankly, I wouldn’t want to sit next to a delusional godbot anyway.

  • http://cheapsignals.blogspot.com Gretchen

    sc_770d159609e0f8deaa72849e3731a29d said:

    As it has only been possible for men to refuse to sit next to women on a ‘plane for about a hundred years, can it be called a tradition at all?

    I said “a tradition which makes men think…” If your sexist tradition says you shouldn’t sit next to women, it doesn’t matter whether it’s an airplane, bus, or covered wagon.

    LightningRose said:

    Frankly, I wouldn’t want to sit next to a delusional godbot anyway.

    I wouldn’t mind, provided he/she wasn’t delusional about respecting my personal space. And if they’re really that afraid of girl cooties, they’d probably leave me alone, so….

  • ah58

    Why couldn’t they all just climb in plastic bags? It’s worked before:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2307713/Pictured-Orthodox-Jewish-man-covers-PLASTIC-BAG-flight.html

  • dingojack

    Gretchen (# 14) – What? Are you some kind of internet Bond villain now? 😉

    Gretchen (#25) – What made these men not plan ahead? In a word, privilege.

    Dingo

  • marcozandrini

    Hitchens was right: “religion poisons everything”

    RIP

  • peterh

    As Puck (of an entirely different – gasp!!! pagan – religious tradition) observed, “What fools these mortals be.”

  • corwyn

    “Attention passengers, this is your Captain speaking. There is a group of people who would like to sit together, but were unable to purchase adjoining seats, so they have offered to pay to upgrade all the passengers in the rearmost 4 rows of seats to first class. If those passengers would please move to the front of the plane, and tell the flight attendants whether they would prefer the prime rib, or the duck, that would be appreciated. We apologize for any inconvenience. Thank You.”

  • reddiaperbaby1942

    As the Finns used to say about the Russians: a fundamentalist is a fundamentalist, even if you fry him in butter.

    Or, in this case, chicken fat.

  • reddiaperbaby1942

    P.S. How is this different from Hobby Lobby or other Christian fundamentalists claiming special treatment, except that the inconvenience to ordinary people was more direct and more concrete?

    Religious zealots and fanatics always think their “beliefs” give them special rights and privileges in a secular society. We should never give way to them: they’ll just keep coming back for more.

  • tbp1

    @ Dingojack, # 27:

    It wouldn’t surprise me if this were planned ahead.

  • eric

    You don’t want to be near women, get your ass off and swim to Israel.

    Frankly the same goes for people blocking the aisle for an entire flight as they kneel to pray. It’s a safety issue – get back in your seat, or we’re landing the plane at the nearest airport and you’re disembarking.

  • http://www.ranum.com Marcus Ranum

    I wonder what the fallout from this will be. What will be El Al’s response?

    Bomb Gaza, because someone in Gaza was praying Voltaire’s prayer.

  • dingojack

    tbp1 – Next Gretchen will ask for — [music stab] — a million dollars!!! [places left pinkie in corner of mouth] 😉

    Yep, you’re probably right. ‘Never attribute to stupidity that which can be attributed to malice’.

    Dingo

  • colnago80

    Re Marcus Ranum @ #35

    Hey, got to get rid of those those bombs that have reached their expiration date.

  • eric

    P.S. How is this different from Hobby Lobby or other Christian fundamentalists claiming special treatment

    I don’t see how they are really comparable; Hobby Lobby is about the US government requiring a company to act a certain way. I this case, its a (privately held? I don’t know) foreign airline making the call. The USG doesn’t care how the airline does seating (as shown by Southwest).

    Now, if the Haredi had taken El Al to court, saying that it’s a religious violation for some of their fare to go to pay for non-kosher passenger meals, that would be a closer analogy. You’d still have the disanalogy of the airline not being the government, though, so the non-discrimination rules might not be as tight.

  • tbp1

    @#38:

    Not speaking for Eric, but only for myself, I think it’s a pretty good analogy. In both cases people were demanding religious exemption from having to follow the rules everyone else has to follow, exemptions I for one do not feel they are entitled to. I don’t think the private vs. public distinction matters very much; both cases show people demanding that other people give unwarranted deference to their private religious beliefs.

  • tbp1

    Oops, sorry, I misattributed the quote. Editing, I want editing function here…

  • Tsu Dho Nimh

    I looked at the picture from the flight .. where’s turbulence when you need it?