Wingnut: Church/State Separation the ‘Death Knell for Our Nation’

Lea Carawan, the director of the Congressional Prayer Caucus Foundation, an organization with several members of Congress on its board of directors, went on a right-wing radio talk show and said that separation of church and state will be the “death knell of our nation.”

“That is the death knell for our nation,” she said. “If the church of God, if the Christians do not engage in the public square and do not see that as their responsibility, their right and responsibility, then those that do not believe like us will absolutely fill the void. And what people don’t understand is that every nation will reflect somebody’s values. And up until now, it’s reflected Judeo-Christian values because the Christians have held to it and they’ve protected it every single generation. But if we do not protect it in our generation, if we buy this lie and we back out of the public square like we have for a decade or several decades now, we will find that we no longer have a free Republic. The threat is very real.”

I am greatly amused by this claim that “up until now” the nation has “reflected Judeo-Christian values.” So when we were slave owners, that “reflected Judeo-Christian values”? When we were lynching blacks and denying them the right to vote or go where they wanted, that “reflected Judeo-Christian values”? When we were preventing women from voting, that “reflected Judeo-Christian values”? When we were supporting murderous dictators and invading nations and killing millions, that “reflected Judeo-Christian values”? Actually, yes. The institutional Christian church supported all of those things.

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  • John Pieret

    if we buy this lie and we back out of the public square like we have for a decade or several decades now

    The last several decades have been what it’s like when the far right Xians have backed out of the public square?

  • raven

    I am greatly amused by this claim that “up until now” the nation has “reflected Judeo-Christian values.”

    They did get one of the main OT bible themes right though.

    The OT is the charming story of the Israelites invading Canaan, genociding the Canaanites, and taking their land, women, and stuff.

    The colonization of North America is the story of Europeans invading, taking the natives lands, and killing most of them.

  • dingojack

    IF Christians have been ‘out of the public square’* for ‘a decade, or several decades’ why didn’t the US ‘die’** at least ten years ago? Could it be that it’s (yet another) Christian dystopic prophesy that didn’t (and couldn’t) come true?

    Dingo

    ———

    * yeah right @@

    ** how does a country die, exactly?

  • Chiroptera

    English pedantry here:

    Calling “church-state separation” the “death knell” of our country is saying that the separation of church and state is a sign of the imminent destruction of our country.

    That maybe what he is saying, but I’m guessing he’s really trying to say that “separation of church and state” will be the cause of the destruction of our country.” If so, then “death knell” isn’t being used correctly.

    Sorry for the pedantry.

  • Funny Diva

    Chiroptera: Ask not for whom the bell tolls?

    I’m just glad this eejit didn’t work “bellweather” into their screed!

    *grin* *pedantic fist-bump of solidarity*

    Clearly, Talibangelical homeschooling doesn’t teach American history any better than it teaches science…good thing I don’t have to be surprised by this drivel to be disgusted by it!

  • D. C. Sessions

    Well, if we’re having a pedantry competition, it’s”bellwether” — a wether is a castrated ram.

    And it would be so apt for these Levitical Christians, too, since the Law of Moses forbids castration of domestic animals.

  • moarscienceplz

    if we buy this lie and we back out of the public square like we have for a decade or several decades now, we will find that we no longer have a free Republic. The threat is very real.”

    Yeah! ‘Cause if holier-than-thou Christian can’t tell the country how to behave, then people will just start acting freely and stuff. And THEN what kind of country would we have?

  • raven

    If we are being all pedentic and all, doesn’t the Death Knell happen after something has died?

    Meaning then, that the USA has already died?

    Who knew and when? It looks the same to me today as it has for the last few decades; cars on the road, mail delivered, phone works, lunch time coming up.

    Quite the disappointment I guess. The US afterlife looks more or less exactly like it did the day before.

  • raven

    Unfortunately for the wingnut, there aren’t going to be any death bells tolling for either the church or state in the near future. US xianity isn’t dead and neither is the US nation.

    While US xianity isn’t dead, it is heading downhill. It will probably never die completely, but continue on as an irrelevant and occasionally amusing, occasionally horrifying Zombie.

    And no one is going to ring the bell. By that time, no one will care enough to bother.

  • raven

    That is the death knell for our nation,” she said. “If the church of God, if the Christians do not engage in the public square and do not see that as their responsibility, their right and responsibility,

    then those that do not believe like us will absolutely fill the void.

    Typical christofascist gibberish.

    Most of the US population never did believe like them. The fundies have always been a minority, even among US xians. It’s always been a diverse collection of vaguely similar religions.

    And almost certainly, they never will. The fundies are declining in numbers just like all other US xians.

  • dingojack

    Isn’t ‘bellweather’ the set of meteorological conditions that favour the unwanted appearance of ‘bellends‘?

    (Does Georgia have ‘Southern-belleweather’?)

    raven – ‘will be the death knell’, future (perfect) tense. That is to say, the tolling of bells to signify the ‘death’ of the US will be completed before the author’s referred timeframe.

    Dingo

  • Randomfactor

    I wonder if the long history of anti-Semitism in the US stems from our Judeo-Christian heritage.

  • colnago80

    Re Randomfactor @ #12

    What nation doesn’t have a long history of antisemitism?

  • dhall

    Apparently, the bell has been ringing for a long time, ever since Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Madison, etc., decided to form a secular government back in the 18th century.

  • dingojack

    SLC – Tibet? The Federated States of Micronesia? Tonga? The Peoples Republic of China?

    Just off the top of my head.

    Dingo

  • LightningRose

    DingoJack, I was thinking of Israel. It must be a trick question.

  • dingojack

    Unfortunately Palestinians are a Semitic people too.

    Dingo

  • colnago80

    Re Chihuahua @ #17

    Of course, none of those countries have any Jews living there (except possibly China which may have a few). However, let’s tighten that up a bit. What nations in Europe and the Americas don’t have a long history of antisemitism? Certainly Australia and New Zealand aren’t exempt from that particular illness.

    Lighting Rose @ #16

    Well, the Jews and the Arabs there don’t much like each other.

  • Funny Diva

    D.C . Sessions @6:

    that was the point of my comment: that “bellweather” would be RONG! (thus the solidarity fistbump of pedantry…)

    (I know I’ve pointed this out at least once on another blog, somewhere in a previous life…)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=730511544 billdaniels

    The city of Shanghai welcomed Jewish refugees from Germany in the 30s and there were small groups of indigenous Chinese Jews that have been in China for hundreds of years. There are also many Chinese Muslims.

  • busterggi

    Roe v Wade was decided under JC values? Then why are these noons complaining about it?