Conservative Catholics Flipping Out Over Burke Demotion

As expected, Pope Francis removed Cardinal Burke, one of the leaders of the most conservative factions of the Catholic Church, from his position as one of the highest-ranking church officials and relegated him to a meaningless title as head of the Order of the Knights of Malta. And the right-wing of the church is absolutely losing their minds over it, not only talking of schism but claiming that Francis is a false pope.

Our families are now under attack from the sitting Pope.

I have read stories referencing a schism and internal war. I believe even Cardinal Burke referenced the danger of schism under Pope Francis does exist.

The problem with this situation is, it’s all going to creep back into homilies and religious education and our Sacred Liturgy, Sacraments and Rites.

Those who have been luring our children away from Church teaching have been declared as holding a true deposit of faith which is being caricatured by Pope Francis as some kind of ignorance of 2000 years of Popes and Saints. They are being invited to promote heresy as church teaching in an effort to help the Pope, who is here to enlighten us of benefits of adultery and memorialize contradicting the Catechism as the practice for salvation.

And in the comments, they’re actually claiming that Benedict is still the real pope even though he stepped down. One commenter asked, “How is it that a Pope can be apostate, which is what seems to be? This presents quite a quandary for believers. How can a Pope preach error?” The responses:

I would say that it’s possible because Pope Benedict XVI did not fully relinquish his papacy, but only the teaching and governing portions of it. A pope can’t delegate his infallibility to another. The following link gave me that idea, and it makes sense of what’s going on: http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/774-in-a-papal-diarchy-which-half-is-infallible

Our Lady of Fatima, ora pro nobis!!!!!…

the ‘sitting Pope’, not the ‘reigning Pope’; I love that phrase and agree with it 100%, as I believe the true reigning Pope is our Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.

This is so fascinating to watch.

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  • http://www.ranum.com Marcus Ranum

    It’s all consistent with the observations that:

    a) the pope is a normal human being

    b) there is no god enforcing any particular interpretation of the bible

    c) the church is a business (with a marketing problem)

    What’s not obvious, catholics?

  • Sastra

    A pope can’t delegate his infallibility to another.

    What if he says he can?

  • raven

    …not only talking of schism but claiming that Francis is a false pope.

    What is the downside here.

    I’d simply invite the rebels to the Vatican for a little negotiation. “What can we do to help you on your new journey out of the church?”

    It isn’t like the Catholic church hasn’t had schisms before. They’ve had them since they were formed nearly 2,000 years ago and they happen every few years these days.

  • dingojack

    Hmmm … ‘luring children’ isn’t that Benny’s job (along with his minions)? I smell a demarcation dispute brewing….

    Who’ll bring the popcorn?

    Dingo

  • raven

    I did a quick Google search to see how many heretical schismatic Catholic churches there are.

    1. A lot of them.

    2. No one knows how many. Probably someone is keeping track but I didn’t find any on the internet. Most of these groups are probably pretty small, maybe even one church.

    3. According to the Rome Catholic church, all other of the 42,000 xian sects are heretical, schismatic cults and Fake Xians. Whatever. So one or two more isn’t going to make any difference.

    4. In times past, these disputes would have been settled in the traditional xian way. On the battlefields by use of armaments and armies. I suppose it is a good thing that these days, we don’t let them launch fighter planes and drive around in tanks. (That is what the Moslems still do and look how well it is working out for them.)

  • doublereed

    Popes are infallible???

  • http://zenoferox.blogspot.com/ Zeno

    The ultra-Catholics are always hilariously inconsistent, twisting logic into pretzels as they argue in support of a One True Church that is hierarchical in nature with an infallible pontiff as its leader and then turn around to denounce a pope who is not sufficiently in line with their notion of what Church dogma and practice should be. What are these poor “Benedict is still pope!” suckers going to do when Benny Hex kicks the bucket? They are so screwed. Perhaps they’ll have to join up with the angry hardline remnant that insists Pius XII (d. 1958) was The Last True Pope and all Vatican occupants since John XXIII (the anti-Christ who convened Vatican II) are anti-popes. They and their martyr complexes can feel all warm and fuzzy in their “oppression.”

  • daved

    Popes are infallible???

    Very few things popes say fall under the designation of “infallible.” I don’t think Francis has said anything that falls under that heading.

  • cottonnero

    Must be rough, being a schismatic Catholic. With the Protestants, you just start a new church down the road and continue to fleece.

  • dingojack

    What will happen as the increasingly elderly clergy of the Catholic Church ‘politburo’ move further and further from their parishioner base?

    As the hierarchy becomes more conservative, more isolated and more irrelevant will the RCC African Churchs break away and support the Papacy and it’s attendant dinosaurs, or not?

    (Any way you look at it, in my opinion, the conservatives are snookered).

    Dingo

  • fmitchell

    @raven #5

    Suddenly I had this lovely image of of sedevacantists and other Catholic schismatics having a knock-down fight over HOW LONG false popes have been sitting in the Vatican. “Since Benedict XVI!” “No, since Pius XII!” “No, since Leo V!”

    Will they elect a second pope? Third? Or just sit around whining like the boring old farts they are.

    @doublereed #6

    Technically, popes are infallible only in very specific circumstances. Most people forget that, though. Thus, when Pope Frankie quips “Who am I to judge?” he’s speaking as a private individual … but conservatives go into emergency spin mode anyway. (As an aside, a recent Frontline revealed to those of us out of the loop that Rome has one of the swingingest gay priest scenes.)

  • fmitchell

    Personally, I long for the days of Pope Steven VI (or VII, a story in itself), who exhumed his predecessor, put the corpse on trial, declared the cadaver’s papacy illegal and nullified, and ritually executed the corpse. We need another Cadaver Synod!

  • frog

    The European medieval history nerd in me is finding all of this delightful for reasons entirely separate from my ex-Catholic atheist self.

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    Look, everybody knows that Jesus was for two things; protecting the Patriarchy and not prosecuting sex crimes. The new “Pope” is stepping on the first one, and he’d ignore the second, too but he’d have no staff.

  • raven

    What are these poor “Benedict is still pope!” suckers going to do when Benny Hex kicks the bucket? They are so screwed.

    Naw. They probably won’t even notice. Or care.

    It’s all make believe and let’s pretend anyway. They will just keep evolving in real time.

  • http://wanderinweeta.blogspot.com Susannah

    … Those who have been luring our children away from Church teaching …

    Rather unfortunate phrasing, that.

  • http://zenoferox.blogspot.com/ Zeno

    Will they elect a second pope? Third?

    There are already a number of widely recognized anti-popes around — widely recognized as anti-popes, that is. Their congregations are tiny, especially that of Pope Michael I, whose parents constitute a significant fraction of his following. Poor old “Pius XIII” is gone, though.

  • dean

    “The problem with this situation is, it’s all going to creep back into homilies and religious education and our Sacred Liturgy, Sacraments and Rites.”

    Only if they had included concern over precious bodily fluids would this be funnier.

  • Nick Gotts

    Very few things popes say fall under the designation of “infallible.” I don’t think Francis has said anything that falls under that heading. – daved@8

    Not so: according to most Catholic theologians when a Pope canonises someone, he’s acting infallibly. So even when he canonises an obvious fraud like “Padre Pio”, there’s no procedure for “decanonisation”, and the church has to keep pretending the Pope got it right.

  • cptdoom

    Reading those comments is hysterical, because I come from a big Catholic family and even the most devout ones don’t care about couples living together prior to marriage or have cut out our many relatives who have divorced. I guess it is true that the reign of Ratzinger drove most of the reasonable Catholics out of the church.

  • tbp1

    @19: Didn’t they de-canonize a bunch of saints on the 60s, including St. Christopher? (Remember when, for some reason, practically every teenager was wearing a St. Christopher medal, even non-Catholics?)

  • lorn

    Oh for the spectacle of a good religious war…

    “It’s years since we’ve heard the clash of sword against shield

    …the clamour of armoured knights crashing to the ground…

    …the spurt of blood as the dagger is thrust into unprotected groin.”

    From: http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/j/jabberwocky-script-transcript-terry-gilliam.html

    If there are aliens watching … do you think they watch our wars, broadcast the spectacle, and bet on the outcomes? Humans, I assume, even by our own estimation, are a marvelously unpredictable, inventive, and treacherous species.

  • hrafn

    @19: Didn’t they de-canonize a bunch of saints on the 60s, including St. Christopher? (Remember when, for some reason, practically every teenager was wearing a St. Christopher medal, even non-Catholics?)

    I think it’s okay to de-canonise early saints (e.g. for probably not actually having existed), as long as no specific pope specifically canonised them (as opposed to merely accepting earlier tradition that they’re saints).

  • http://festeringscabofrealityblogspot.com fifthdentist

    “He ain’t my pope!”

    “We’re gonna start our own better church the way Jesus meant for it to be!”*

    Now, why does that sound familiar? … Like something I have the feeling I’ve been hearing for, oh, something approaching six years? This is some serious déjà vu shit.

    For some reason I have this image of men in dresses wearing tricorn hats waving Gadsden flags.

    * I guess wingnuts are wingnuts, whether they worship a dead savior who promises an idyllic paradise where all the pure, faithful true believers will enjoy eternal bliss or they worship Jesus instead of the previously mentioned Ronald Reagan.

  • hrafn

    I think whether a substantive schism (as opposed to yet-another tiny splinter group) will occur will depend on (i) how far apart the pope is from the rank and file (as opposed to the hierarchy) of the Catholic Church (remembering that the rank and file in Europe and the Americas tend to be more liberal than that in much of Africa), and (ii) the relative importance placed on remaining with the ‘one’ Catholic Church versus agreement on theological issues (liberals seem to have tended to be relatively happy to stay within the church and simply ignore the theology they disagree with, it’ll be interesting to see if conservatives will do the same).

  • jnorris

    There are only two questions the hierarchy who doubt Pope Francis’ legitimacy have to worry about. First, what does Bill Donahue say, is Frank legit or not?

    Second, is Pope Francis related to either the Borgias, the Medici, or the Corleones? If Frank is related to any of the later, then the former better think very, very carefully before saying anything (for once).

  • http://drx.typepad.com Dr X

    (liberals seem to have tended to be relatively happy to stay within the church and simply ignore the theology they disagree with, it’ll be interesting to see if conservatives will do the same).

    Well conservatives have managed for years to ignore social justice teachings, teachings on war and the death penalty, sometimes finding a little wiggle room in the words of the Vatican, but more often pretending that the teachings don’t mean what they mean. The deal breaker for them is any deviation in The Theology of Naughty Bits.

  • dingojack

    Does that theology come from the bible’s ‘sealed section’, The (Great Big) Book of Naughty Bits?

    :) Dingo

  • Matt G

    Sorry, there are meaningfull titles in the Catholic Church??

    Now this guy’s demotion has some real effect, or is this just another PR move on the part of Pope Fluffy?

  • http://wanderinweeta.blogspot.com Susannah

    Dr. X, # 27

    The deal breaker for them is any deviation in The Theology of Naughty Bits.

    Actually, they’re pretty easy going about the TNB, too. Case inpoint; most Catholic women are ok with contraception. It’s the Theology of Other People’s Naughty Bits that allows no compromise.

  • birgerjohansson

    Please, appoint an Antipope, pleasepleaseplease !!!!!

  • reddiaperbaby1942

    “Francis is a false pope.”

    Indeed, just as Obama is a false President.

    I mean, a guy who looks like that, and who is actually trying to do the job he was elected for — how can he be anything else but a phony!

    Francis too is trying to do the job he was elected for, but the extremists don’t want to let him do it. Sound familiar?

  • colnago80

    Re Nick Gotts @ #19

    Well, Mother Teresa was pretty much a phoney also.

  • plutosdad

    I remember growing up a lot of people thought once John Paul II and Cardinal Bernadin did that the American church would break away, but that was thinking it would be liberals who would break away. I’m glad the church is becoming a tiny bit more liberal and it’s the hateful nuts who want to break away to continue their hate of women and gay people, or anyone different.

  • caseloweraz

    fmitchell: Suddenly I had this lovely image of of sedevacantists and other Catholic schismatics having a knock-down fight…

    Thanks for the inspiration:

    Everybody was schismatizing;

    It was a true uprising.

    Factions were mobilizing,

    The church destabilizing.

    Some fans of Benedict were getting real irate

    At changes that they thought Francis would inculcate.

    The doctrines of the church no doubt would be besmirched;

    His call for tolerance would leave them in the lurch.

    And so they were schismatizing…

    For those who don’t know the tune: Kung Fu Fighting

  • http://www.facebook.com/shockna shockna

    Perhaps they’ll have to join up with the angry hardline remnant that insists Pius XII (d. 1958) was The Last True Pope and all Vatican occupants since John XXIII (the anti-Christ who convened Vatican II) are anti-popes.

    I have relatives who are sedevacantists, and apparently some groups are already planning to do this. >_>

    Their congregations are tiny, especially that of Pope Michael I

    Wasn’t he, or someone affiliated with him, the guy who sent Ed the best email ever sometime in 2013?

  • DLC

    So let me see if I got this right. One guy claims to speak for everybody’s imaginary friend.

    This guy says some other sot who claims to speak for the Imaginary Friend should have a job out of the way, where he can’t use his imaginary friendship to harm others. Supporters of second, less friendly with Imaginary friend guy say Imaginary BFF guy is wrong and has to be got rid of. Cue the Piranha Brothers.

    Is that about it ?

    Sorry to say, but I said goodbye to my Imaginary Friend a long time ago. I made some real friends, and one day he just stopped coming. Perhaps Imaginary Friends are jealous that way.