Barton Predicts America’s Collapse From Premarital Sex

Fake historian and professional liar David Barton did an interview at a Cleveland Right to Life event and made the rather bizarre claim that no nation has ever survived more than 80 years once premarital sex and infidelity have become accepted.

“In regards to the moral standing of other democracies, including ancient Rome, how is the United States measuring up today?” an interviewer asked Barton in an edited clip posted on YouTube by the anti-choice group.

“Well, we got real trouble,” Barton responded.

“…Pre-marital purity and post-marital fidelity…no nation, any nation in 5,000 years has ever survived two generations past that, so it’s gone within 80 years,” he said. “So Rome’s the same way.”

Okay, David, show your work. Please identify the year in which that happened in Rome and why you think there was no premarital sex or infidelity before that point so that we can know whether this 80 year claim is true. And then do the same thing for every other country. Oh, you can’t? You were just talking out your ass? How surprising.

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  • busterggi

    Premarital sex will destroy he country in two generations? Guess th US ceased to exist about 80 years before the Rvelutionary War.

  • dingojack

    England must have ceased to be by (at least) 1937, due to The Matrimonial Causes Act of 1857 which, amongst other things, de-criminalised adultery.

    Dingo

  • blf

    other democracies, including ancient Rome

    Ancient Rome (whether he means the City-State itself or the Empire / “Republic”) was a democracy?

    The governing system changed over time, but despite having some elements of democratic rule at some points in time, calling it a “democracy” at any point in time is highly dubious.

  • matty1

    In regards to the moral standing of other democracies, including ancient Rome, how is the United States measuring up today?”

    Mister Google sez this

    I wouldn’t vouch for that site as I’ve never heard of it before and there is no information on where they got their data from, plus not all the countries on it may count as democracies by his standards (or mine) but for a bit of fun.

    -The US sits around the middle of the table in terms of the percentage who think premarital sex is immoral (30% same as Russia)

    -Numbers range from 97% in Indonesia to 6% in France

    -All the nations where premarital sex is condemned less than in America have governments elected in multi-party elections, while at least two of those that are condemn more do not (Egypt and China)

    In short there is no evidence the US is ahead in accepting this form of ‘immorality’ compared to other democracies.

  • raven

    In regards to the moral standing of other democracies, including ancient Rome, how is the United States measuring up today?”

    Not bad actually.

    Rome was a slave society. We abolished slavery in 1865,

    And we don’t crucify people. As Barton should know and apparently doesn’t, Rome used to execute people by nailed them to two beams.

  • Jared James

    What David Barton doesn’t know about Rome, or anything else that happened less recently than breakfast, could fill the Library of Congress.

    As he so eagerly demonstrates every time he opens his preach-hole.

  • Anton Mates

    Ancient Rome (whether he means the City-State itself or the Empire / “Republic”) was a democracy?

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    ahahaha

    haha.

    Offhand I can’t think of a Roman writer who even wanted to think of Rome as a democracy. As far as the Romans were concerned, democracy was that cute thing the Athenians did occasionally before they got taken over by an actual nation.

    Every classics major in the universe is laughing at David Barton’s interviewer right now.

  • D. C. Sessions

    Rome was a slave society. We abolished slavery in 1865

    And whether they admit it or not, that was the real end of America as they want it to be.

  • matty1

    What David Barton doesn’t know about Rome, or anything else that happened less recently than breakfast, could fill the Library of Congress.

    Is there any evidence that is more knowledgeable about events since breakfast?

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    raven “And we don’t crucify people.”

    THEN WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO DAVID BATRON RIGHT NOW?!!!

  • dingojack

    Hell — I doubt if Barton knows of anything at all after breakfast, mainly because of his effort to believe as many as six impossible things before it.

    Dingo

  • raven

    THEN WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO DAVID BATRON RIGHT NOW?!!!

    Persecuting him. By telling the truth and laughing at him.

    Fundie xians have their own language, Xian GroupSpeak, based loosely on English.

    Persecution = Telling the truth about Barton.

    Persecution = Laughing at his ignorance and lies.

  • blf

    Offhand I can’t think of a Roman writer who even wanted to think of Rome as a democracy.

    Polybius (who was Greek, not Roman, but ignoring that quibble), maybe? He’s better known as a (real) historian and advocate of separation of powers, but part of his ideal governing system (as I understand it) was an elected voice for the non-aristocrats (plebs).

  • caseloweraz

    Phew! Hugh Hefner established Playboy in 1953. That means we’ve got until 2033 to change course. It should be doable.

    Oh, wait — you mean fornication, pre-marital sex and “playing around” existed long before Playboy?

    We’re finished!

    /snark

    By the way: Interesting tidbit from Wikipedia’s article on Hefner:

    After it was rejected by Esquire magazine in 1955, Hefner agreed to publish in Playboy the Charles Beaumont science fiction short story “The Crooked Man”, about straight men being persecuted in a world where homosexuality was the norm. After receiving angry letters to the magazine, Hefner wrote a response to criticism where he said, “If it was wrong to persecute heterosexuals in a homosexual society then the reverse was wrong, too.”

    Sums it up nicely.

  • dingojack

    C. Suetonius Tranquillus notes in his Twelve Caesars:

    In place of Cornelia he [Julius Caesar] took to wife Pompeia, daughter of Quintus Pompeius and granddaughter of Lucius Sulla. But he afterward divorced her, suspecting her of adultery with Publius Clodius; and in fact the report that Clodius had gained access to her in woman’s garb during a public religious ceremony* was so persistent, that the senate decreed that the pollution of the sacred rites be judicially investigated.”

    So clearly Jesus wasn’t crucified, since Judea was under local Jewish control (not Roman); the Roman Empire having fallen some 10 or so years earlier (according to numbnuts).

    @@

    Dingo

    ——–

    * The mysterious & notorious Bona Dea affair of 692auc [62 bce].

  • kantalope

    busterggi @1

    Beat me to it. I don’t remember the source now but someone went through the birth/death notices and compared them to the marriage records in the 17th century and it turns out that gestation periods in the 1600’s were not quite the nine months that we take for granted today. If you catch my drift.

  • theguy

    “In regards to the moral standing of other democracies… how is the United States measuring up today?”

    One might criticize the US for police brutality, lack of health insurance, warmongering, the death penalty…

    Oh, Bartshit doesn’t care about any of that? He’s only upset that people can have sex in ways he doesn’t approve of?

  • D. C. Sessions

    it turns out that gestation periods in the 1600’s were not quite the nine months that we take for granted today. If you catch my drift.

    It has been known for a very long time that what takes a comfortable married couple nine months can be done by enthusiastic newlyweds in much less time.

    Of course, in some countries (Iceland pretty much forever, much of Europe until recently) no sensible man would allow his sons to marry women who had not proven their ability to produce healthy offspring. Their sons, reluctantly I’m sure, cooperated in the selection process.

  • Nick Gotts

    blf@13,

    The history of the Roman Republic’s institutions is complex, and not entirely understood, beva. The plebs did get to vote, but their votes, and particularly the votes of the poor, counted for less than those of the rich – the USA’s Republicans would recognise and applaud the gerrymandering and the huge influence of money. The patrician/plebian division was a major source of strife in the earlier years of the Republic, but by the 3rd century BCE that division had lost a lot of its importance, and rich plebians could rise to the highest offices. Of course, such lesser beings as women and slaves never got a look in – as was also the case in Athenian “democracy”.

  • ah58

    Here’s Barton’s logic:

    1) Gay people have sex

    2) More and more states are legalizing same-sex marriage

    3) Some of these gay people will now be able to get married

    4) Therefore, pre-marital sex is increasing

    .

    .

    Profit! Collapse!

  • Nick Gotts

    Premature commenting@19. The “beva” should be “because”, and the “because” is that the sources are not great: only Polybius, already mentioned, is from earlier than the first century BCE.

  • Childermass

    “History has shown that societies that embrace homosexuality rapidly deteriorate morally until they finally fall after a few generations, due to the loss of their moral foundations. ” — Sally Kern’s even dumber husband, Rev. Steve in the “Oklahoma Gazette,” “Counterpoint: Soul Concern

  • jnorris

    Given there was no Christian marriage (True ™ or otherwise) in America before the European Invasion, we’ve been screwed for over 400 years.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=153100784 Michael Brew

    Apparently Barton is unaware that there is a society today that has lasted at least a thousand years with no marriage (or “fathers” in any sense beyond the sperm donating sense) at all just fine.

  • davem

    Ancient Rome (whether he means the City-State itself or the Empire / “Republic”) was a democracy?

    Of course! I hear that the Toga Party as very popular.

  • sigurd jorsalfar

    I predict my own collapse from pre-marital sex. I’m effing exhausted.

  • U Frood

    @22, I’ve never heard anyone provide an example of that. Unless you count Sodom and Gomorrah, but those supposedly fell due to divine punishment (or alien nuclear weapons), not societal collapse.

  • scienceavenger

    Since when is two generations 80 years?

  • Donnie

    I am sure that it has already been pointed out, but Rome fell a century after accepting Christianity.