The Taste of Gina Miller’s Tears

I wonder if the Christian bigots freaking out over the legalization of same-sex marriage know how much absolute joy they are bringing me with their hysterical overreactions and hyperbolic predictions of doom? This passage from BarbWire editor Gina Miller leaves me downright giddy:

Are we truly watching a perfect storm of tyrannical darkness conquer the United States? Have we finally been defeated by the ever-patient, ever-evil, embedded communists, who’ve had their wicked designs on our nation for at least a hundred years? Is our culture so rotten to the core that it can never return to virtue and right? Are America’s younger generations lost to Godless, communist indoctrination and ideology, which includes radical environmental lunacy and the eager embrace of militant homosexualism and the destruction of marriage and family? Is there no way to purge the systemic immorality and corruption that infects all our major institutions, our federal, state and local governments, our schools, the media and entertainment industries and corporations? Is it even possible for this wayward nation to return to the founding principles and limitations on the central government outlined in the Constitution? Is tyranny inevitable?

Forgive my pessimism. I’ve been scolded for it by optimists who are certain the Lord will cause a massive Christian revival across the land, and also by those who believe that because there’s a gun behind every blade of grass in the U.S., the commies will never be able to conquer us. Are these realistic positions? I’ve heard it said that if only the Jews had all been armed and had fought back when the Nazis came to their homes, then the Holocaust would have been stopped in its tracks. Is this true? If—for instance—Obama’s “Civilian National Security Force” is sent out to round up those America-loving patriots whom Obama so despises, and those patriots attempt to resist the aggressors with deadly force, what will happen? Does anyone truly believe that in this age of advanced weaponry in the hands of the State, coupled with its mighty, militaristic police power, that we stand a chance against it?

Allow me to answer your questions, Gina: Yes, you’ve been defeated. Not by communists or Nazis, of course, but by the slow but steady advance of human rights and civil rights that eventually wins out over bigotry and theocracy in every struggle in this country. Your ideological forebears, who shouted the same howls of outrage and made the same idiotic prediction that past struggles would bring about the death of the country, said the exact same thing about ending slavery, allowing women to vote, desegregating schools, passing the Civil Rights Act and much more.

The right wing is always stuck in the same loop, repeating the same slogans and lurid tales of impending doom in every instance where their bigotry and desire to control others has been challenged. The rhetoric never changes. And none of those dystopic predictions ever come true. Never.

POPULAR AT PATHEOS Nonreligious
What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • kantalope

    Communists are all for civil and gay rights? Who knew?

  • http://atheist-faq.com Jasper of Maine

    radical environmental lunacy and the eager embrace of militant homosexualism

    Are we just combining random words here?

    Satan was an environmentalist? Are they trying to give me more reasons to like the guy?

  • John Pieret

    Is tyranny inevitable?

    Apparently not. Despite the Religious Right’s best efforts over the 60 years or so, it appears you have failed.

  • dingojack

    Are America’s younger generations lost to Godless, communist indoctrination and ideology, which includes radical environmental lunacy and the eager embrace of militant homosexualism and the destruction of marriage and family?”

    What no ‘Rock and/or Roll?’ — how disappointing!

    Dingo

    ———

    Ed posted: “Your ideological forebears, who shouted the same howls of outrage and made the same idiotic prediction that past struggles would bring about the death of the country, said the exact same thing about ending slavery, allowing women to vote, desegregating schools, passing the Civil Rights Act and much more. ”

    Including the founding of the United States of America itself — Well if ya don’t like it Gina…

  • http://twitter.com/#!/TabbyLavalamp Tabby Lavalamp

    Don’t cry, Gina! The oligarchy will never allow tyrannical communism to take over, and they are doing their damnedest to keep environmental lunacy from making your world more pleasant! Wanna hug? Don’t worry, my bisexual arms aren’t contagious…

  • coragyps

    ‘Obama’s “Civilian National Security Force” ‘

    Have I been asleep at the wheel again? Is this who’s taken over those Walmarts?

  • vmanis1

    I do get sick of the haters’ constant references to Nazis. In the reality-based world, the Nazis did `redefine’ marriage, by making illegal marriages between Jew and `Aryan’. In other words, Nazis restricted, rather than expanded, it. I would recommend Ms Miller watch a few Sesame Street segments on understanding opposites.

  • scienceavenger

    …communist indoctrination and ideology, which includes radical environmental lunacy and the eager embrace of militant homosexualism…

    Right, because if there was anything that defined the Soviet Union, it was radical environmentalism and the embrace of homosexuality.

  • Larry

    ‘Obama’s “Civilian National Security Force” ‘

    Have I been asleep at the wheel again? Is this who’s taken over those Walmarts?

    The CNSF is sort of like the CCC formed during the great depression to find work for the unemployed only with more guns and jack boots.

  • Michael Heath

    Ed concludes:

    The right wing is always stuck in the same loop, repeating the same slogans and lurid tales of impending doom in every instance where their bigotry and desire to control others has been challenged. The rhetoric never changes. And none of those dystopic predictions ever come true. Never.

    The key voting block preventing aggressive mitigation from the threat of global warming are conservative Christians. So if we eventually face significant harm from global warming, we can point to conservative Christians as a primary root cause.

    From this perspective it’s fairly easy to see they don’t give a shit about the future when they claim doom is on the horizon. On the one topic where humans need their vote to make a significant difference in preventing harm, they instead are a primary obstacle to the U.S. taking the lead to mitigate this threat.

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    If—for instance—Obama’s “Civilian National Security Force” is sent out to round up those America-loving patriots whom Obama so despises…

    *ding, dong!*

    “Honey, the Peace Corps is at the door, asking where they should put the well, and the Foreign Service is too, wondering why they aren’t in a foreign country.”

  • whheydt

    The fad for Communism among youth/young adults was mostly a 1930s thing. However if today’s youth are taken over by Godlessness, one can only stand up and cheer.

    I suppose it’s worth noting that Richard Nixon’s early claim to fame was that, as a staff lawyer working for McCarthy, he actually found ONE Communist working in the Federal Government (the only one ever found on behalf of McCarthy). Thus Miller is asserting that (a) the Communists have become much more successful in the last 60+ years, and (b) their opponents have become less competent at finding them.

  • eric

    @10:

    The key voting block preventing aggressive mitigation from the threat of global warming are conservative Christians.

    Well, maybe. But I bet the key campaign contributors preventing aggressive mitigation are more corporatist/capitalist than religious.

  • eric

    However if today’s youth are taken over by Godlessness, one can only stand up and cheer.

    The latest PEW survey just came out and has lots of data on age vs. affiliation. ‘Nones’ are up in general (~23% of the population), with the youngest leading the way (36% of the population born after 1990).

  • http://festeringscabofrealityblogspot.com fifthdentist

    Yeah, those dang homosexualists wanting to control everything to bring about their “gay” environmental apocalypse!

    In contrast, all we Christians want to do is control (“purge”) “all our major institutions, our federal, state and local governments, our schools, the media and entertainment industries and corporations.”

    Because we’re totally for limited government.

    And who can forget Lenin’s glorious gay pride parade that launched the Great Revolution when the teeming homosexualist proletariat waved the tyrannical rainbow flag during their takeover of St. Petersburg? And Lenin’s successor took this even further by drawing up lists of heterosexuals for execution.

  • Kermit Sansoo

    dingojack says: What no ‘Rock and/or Roll?’ — how disappointing!,/i>

    .

    Around 1965 i stepped into my bedroom to show my (Southern Baptist preacher) grandpa some art. When I flipped the light switch the progressive rock station came on.

    .

    He thundered “Rock and roll was invented by the Russians to brainwash American youth through the use of base emotions!”

    .

    I turned off the station, of course – respect your elders and all that – but I am still awestruck by the world view he inhabited. I tried to imagine Krushchev and his cronies, with winter overcoats and dour expressions:

    “Da! Is beink good beat!”

    .

    He couldn’t imagine rock and roll as a natural process of our culture, nor see the mismatch between the grim Secretariat of hte Central Committee and the Dionysian ecstasy of rock and roll. Even then, 50 years ago, he was claiming the equivalent of “Muslims extremists and gay activists are working together!”

  • dingojack

    Eric (#14) – you mean this PEW Research survey?

    Dingo

  • grumpyoldfart

    Are America’s younger generations lost to Godless, communist indoctrination and ideology

    Who would have thought you could still sell a “reds under the beds” campaign in America.

  • dingojack

    Interestingly between the survey in 2007 and the one in 2014:

    the number of ‘unaffiliated’ rose from 36.6M to 55.8M (+6.2% pa)

    the number of ‘Evangelical Protestants’ rose from 59.8M to 62.2M (+0.56% pa)

    As a percentage of the US population:

    the number of ‘unaffiliated’ rose from 16.1% to 22.8% (+6.7 percentage points)

    the number of ‘Evangelical Protestants’ fell from 26.3% to 25.4% (-0.9 ” “).

    At this rate by the beginning of 2016 the number of ‘unaffiliated’ will outnumber the ‘Evangelical Protestants’ by 40,000, and by mid-2016 the former will exceed the latter by 0.11% (assuming linear growth).

    Could it be the PoG is facing the consequences of ‘backing the wrong horse’?

    Dingo

  • dingojack

    After mid-2031there’ll be a greater number of ‘unaffiliated’ than Christians as a whole (assuming the growth continues at these rates) [160.2242M each].

    Dingo

  • theDukedog7 .

    “And none of those dystopic predictions ever come true. Never.”

    In the early 20th century, we (Catholics) predicted that (progressive) eugenics would lead to massive violations of basic human rights.

    We predicted that widespread availability of a contraceptive pill would lead to an explosion of sexual promiscuity, marital infidelity, and divorce.

    We (conservatives) predicted that massive expansion of welfare for the poor would lead to generations of welfare dependence and to the breakdown of poor families.

    We predicted in the 1990’s that welfare reform would improve the lives of poor people without significantly hurting people who genuinely needed benefits.

    We predicted that banning DDT would lead to millions of malaria deaths in poor countries.

    We predicted that population control hysteria would lead to totalitarian policies restricting births and a mass slaughter of vulnerable undesirable children (girls in China and India).

    We predicted that the widespread acceptance of homosexual activity would lead to the spread of deadly contagious diseases.

    We predicted that liberal policies on crime in the 60’s and 70’s would lead to a massive crime wave.

    We predicted that conservative policies on crime in the 1990’s would end the massive crime wave.

    We predicted that electing a serial sexual offender to the Presidency in 1992 would lead to scandal.

    We predicted that federal and state policies encouraging sub-prime mortgages would lead to an implosion of the housing market and economic catastrophe.

    We predicted that electing a far left community organizer in 2008 would lead to incompetence and abuse of power in the White House and foreign policy disaster. We repeated the prediction in 2012.

    We predicted that decades of liberal Democrat rule in cities like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, East St. Louis, New Orleans, Newark, Baltimore, etc etc would lead to pervasive poverty, societal breakdown and crime.

  • theDukedog7 .

    Oh, and we predicted that gay marriage would lead to faithful Christians losing their livelihood because of refusal to violate their religious beliefs.

    http://egnorance.blogspot.com/2013/04/gay-marriage-honestly.html

    We were assured that this was just a right-wing paranoid fantasy.

  • magistramarla

    Dingo,

    Maybe there is hope for the future.

  • vmanis1

    Reducing the spread of HIV among gay/bisexual men was largely the work of LGBTs (including women), as many governments of the time were not disposed to help.

    Sadly, I predict that DukeDog will continue to troll, as he appears incapable of checking his facts. If he didn’t exist, it would be unnecessary to invent him.

  • magistramarla

    To the dukedog troll,

    As the economy is slowly recovering from the republican’s mis-rule, the welfare rolls are beginning to go down – thanks, Obama!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/12/food-stamp-enrollment_n_7265844.html

  • whheydt

    Another point from the new Pew poll… Check the regional stats. In the West, the largest block at 28% is…”unaffiliated”. Looks like the Rs will have their work cut out even more than they would have thought to get California’s rather large block of electoral votes if their candidates keep pushing the right-wing fundie agenda.

  • http://festeringscabofrealityblogspot.com fifthdentist

    “In the early 20th century, we (Catholics) predicted that (progressive) eugenics would lead to massive violations of basic human rights.”

    This, of course, after Catholics spent several hundred years carrying out massive violations of basic human rights. Including the Inquisition, Crusades, burning hundreds of thousands of women with cats and/or warts as witches. Not to mention those killed during the Catholic v. Protestant squabbles, or the Catholic treatment of the natives they found in the the so-called New World. Also the Catholics who participated in the Holocaust, and remembering that the Catholic Church cooperated with Mussolini and Hitler and Hitler never was excommunicated.

  • Vicki, duly vaccinated tool of the feminist conspiracy

    Does “militant homosexualism” mean my girlfriend and I are supposed to be out seducing straight women? Or is it sufficient that my girlfriend is teaching my widowed mother cookie recipes?

  • theDukedog7 .

    @27:

    re: the Holocaust:

    The largest atheist organization in the world (the Soviet Union) signed a non-aggression pact with the Nazis that enabled Hitler to invade to the west without fear for his eastern border, and Hitler and his atheist allies carved up Poland, making it ripe for the Holocaust that would follow. If Hitler hadn’t invaded the atheists in 1941, the atheists would have remained staunch Nazi allies and collaborators throughout the war.

    Catholic opposition to Hitler (and Stalin) was massive. The Catholic Church saved at least 700,000 Jews from the atheists’ ally in Berlin.

    http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/judaism/gratitude.htm

  • sharonb

    Re: Dog

    Even a cursory reading of your bullshit storm reveals meritricious logical errors of post hoc, proper hoc , oversimplification, and ad hominems. Nice brainstem fail, dude!

  • John Pieret

    We [presumably conservatives] predicted that federal and state policies encouraging sub-prime mortgages would lead to an implosion of the housing market and economic catastrophe.

    Which, of course, is why you pushed for and got deregulation of the financial sector that might have prevented the widespread sale of derivatives that became the “toxic assets” that brought down the economy.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @27:

    Speaking of inquisitions and holocausts, shall we compare the behavior of Catholics in power to the behavior of atheists in power? In the 20th century, over 20 nations (and a third of humanity) were ruled by atheist governments. Let’s have that conversation.

  • sharonb

    Also, sorry, fail again, but Hitler was a Christian. Can you not wiki? Only one source identifies Hitler as being critical of the Catholic Church, but that hardly supports a convention that he was athiest. In fact how about providing a cite that he was athiest? Mein Kampf contains numerous christian references, as did his speeches.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @31:

    Lesson # 1: never deregulate a system that is under the sway of liberal democrat policies. There is no other way to control the criminality.

    Re: Liberal Democrat Banking Chairman Rep. Barney Frank:

    “As ranking member of the House Financial Services Committee, Frank blocked tightened oversight over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying in 2003, “These two entities … are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” and, “I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing.” More than any other factor, the 2008 financial meltdown was caused by pushing these government-sponsored enterprises to encourage housing loans to risky borrowers.”

    “Frank’s longtime lover Herb Moses worked as a top official responsible for relaxing mortgage standards at Fannie Mae, an enterprise that was subject to oversight authority by the House Financial Services Committee upon which Frank served.”

    “Frank’s interest in allowing free rein at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was not necessarily due to his altruistic motivations for helping poor people buy houses. He also received more than $40,000 in campaign donations over the years from its top officials. Other top donors to Frank’s campaigns included Fidelity Investments, J.P. Morgan and the Bank of America-all institutions that stood to benefit from his position on the House Financial Services Committee.”

    http://humanevents.com/2011/12/03/top-10-barney-frank-offenses-2/

  • theDukedog7 .

    @33:

    Hitler was baptized as an infant. Challenge: how often did he attend church as an adult?

  • theDukedog7 .

    @28:

    “Does “militant homosexualism” mean my girlfriend and I are supposed to be out seducing straight women? Or is it sufficient that my girlfriend is teaching my widowed mother cookie recipes?”

    If your widowed mother were a Christian and declined to bake cookie recipes for your gay wedding , would you report her to police, sue her, and destroy her livelihood?

  • theDukedog7 .

    More conservative predictions:

    (1960’s) If you elect a bunch of liberal mayors in NYC, crime will skyrocket.

    (1994) If you elect conservative mayors in NYC, crime will plummet.

    (2014) If you elect a liberal loon mayor in NYC, crime will skyrocket.

    This is too easy.

  • theDukedog7 .

    Conservative prediction:

    (2008) If you make Hillary Clinton Secretary of State, she will screw foreign policy up in ways that can’t even be fathomed, and she will use her position to create a criminal enterprise that will enrich her and her husband beyond their wildest dreams.

    Admittedly, it’s not hard to make accurate predictions when you are a conservative.

  • John Pieret

    @ 34:

    But Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac didn’t bring down the economy and, I believe, have paid all the money that was needed to prop them up after the economy tanked. It was Lehman Brothers’ subprime mortgage lending and the weight of it’s holdings of toxic assets, things that could have been headed off with proper banking regulations, that really got the ball rolling.

    In 2008, David Goldstein and Kevin G. Hall reported that more than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages came from private lending institutions in 2006, and the share of subprime loans insured by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac decreased as the bubble got bigger (from a high of insuring 48 percent to insuring 24 percent of all subprime loans in 2006).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis#Role_of_Fannie_Mae_and_Freddie_Mac

    The deregulated financial sector was more than capable of shooting itself (and the rest of us) in the foot without any help from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

  • theDukedog7 .
  • John Pieret

    Admittedly, it’s not hard to make accurate predictions when you are a conservative.

    Sure, when you use distortion, outright lies and sheer fantasy to declare that your “predictions” have come “true.”

  • theDukedog7 .

    Subprime mortgage lending was encouraged by the government for years. It was a liberal Democrat policy (unfortunately endorsed by some conservatives), interestingly championed by a particular young ACORN lawyer:

    “President Barack Obama was a pioneering contributor to the national subprime real estate bubble, and roughly half of the 186 African-American clients in his landmark 1995 mortgage discrimination lawsuit against Citibank have since gone bankrupt or received foreclosure notices.

    As few as 19 of those 186 clients still own homes with clean credit ratings, following a decade in which Obama and other progressives pushed banks to provide mortgages to poor African Americans.”

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/03/with-landmark-lawsuit-barack-obama-pushed-banks-to-give-subprime-loans-to-chicagos-african-americans/

    Lehman Brothers had allies. No wonder candidate Obama received so much money from Wall Street.

  • scienceavenger

    We predicted that liberal policies on crime in the 60’s and 70’s would lead to a massive crime wave.

    You were wrong. Crime was mostly flat in the 70’s. There was no “crime wave”. The rest of your implied assertions are similarly unevidenced, and that’s when they aren’t laughably ignorant, like implying Hitler was an atheist. Go read Mein Kampf: God, God, God. And this one is particularly amusing:

    We predicted that electing a serial sexual offender to the Presidency in 1992 would lead to scandal.

    You can hardly take credit for a prediction when you yourself made the prediction come true. You really don’t do this well, do you?

  • John Pieret

    @ 47:

    What the fuck does a suit against “redlining” have to do with subprime mortgages? Redlining is the practice of not giving loans to people who do qualify for them simply because of the neighborhood they live in. It doesn’t force the bank to make subprime loans.

    And as to “roughly half of the 186 African-American clients in his landmark 1995 mortgage discrimination lawsuit against Citibank have since gone bankrupt or received foreclosure notices,” well, no shit Charlie! Who do you think did got the worst of it in the Great Recession? Who had the greatest rise in unemployment and who still has the highest unemployment in the US among those looking for work? 20 years later half of them are in financial trouble? Fucking Sherlocks you and that dishonest article are!

  • theDukedog7 .

    @39:

    “But Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac didn’t bring down the economy”

    Of course they did. FM&FM bought up the high-risk subprime loans, reducing the exposure of the lenders, thereby encouraging lenders to make more subprime loans at low risk.

    The risk was assumed by the American taxpayer.

    During this time, FMFM executives were giving themselves massive performance bonuses for their outstanding management, and FMFM biggies were contributing to Democrat politicians, and at least one FMFM executive was having anal sex with the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee.

    Aside from that, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and their Democrat lovers behaved ethically.

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/15/news/companies/fannie_freddie_executive_pay/

    http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/07/top-senate-recipients-of-fanni/

  • theDukedog7 .

    @43:

    “Crime was mostly flat in the 70’s. There was no “crime wave”.

    I lived in Manhattan from 1976 to 1985. There was a crime wave.”

    “We predicted that electing a serial sexual offender to the Presidency in 1992 would lead to scandal.

    You can hardly take credit for a prediction when you yourself made the prediction come true.”

    That’s right. Conservatives made Clinton get those blow jobs in the Oval Office, and we made him sexually assault all of those women including Paula Jones, and we made him lie about it under oath, and we made him get disbarred for perjury.

    Conservatives are responsible, and we didn’t even get the blow-job!

    Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2015/05/12/the-taste-of-gina-millers-tears/#ixzz3ZxtG95Pa

  • theDukedog7 .

    ED:

    [Gay marriage is] “the slow but steady advance of human rights…”

    When a Christian baker is ordered to bake a cake for a gay wedding, and declines to do so because of her religious beliefs, the police are called, she is sued and taken to court, fined hundreds of thousands of dollars, and loses her livelihood.

    What part of that is an “advance of human rights.”

  • http://timgueguen.blogspot.com timgueguen

    Boring troll is boring. Ed needs to borrow the Red Letters of Death from PZ and ban his ass.

    (US conservatives are responsible? Sure, and I’m a space pirate from the planet Flignac.)

  • sharonb

    When a kkkristian baker gets a state license to operate a bakery, is protected from fire and crime by public resources, drove to the bakery over public roads, and is licensed to offer baking goods to all, and provides them for divorced couples who marry, third marriages, but declines to bake one for a mixed race or black couple, because religious beliefs…

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    We predicted that the widespread acceptance of homosexual activity would lead to the spread of deadly contagious diseases.

    Are you serious? Or are you a lying troll?

    The early epidemic of AIDS in the USA was in the early 1980s. Was there a widespread acceptance of being gay in the 1980s? I think no. Your argument makes no sense.

    The fact that the initial epidemic in the USA was amongst gay men was an accident of history. Plenty of other vectors of infection in other countries was with straight people.

    In Africa, the majority of new infections even today are straight people. Gay sex is more likely to transmit, but the much higher portion of straight people in the population means that still most new infections are straight people. Thus it is simply wrong to associate AIDS with gays. Again, this is because of your US-centric view where the infection in the gay population was an accident of history.

    Or did you mean to argue that there was widespread acceptance of being gay in the 1960s in Africa when the AIDS epidemic really got started? I hope you don’t hold such a foolish position.

    Let’s talk about the policies of your Catholic church. Officials of your church systematically work to deny access to condoms, preach that the use of condoms even in marriage and even to prevent the spread of AIDS is sinful, and spread lies that condoms increase the chances of catching AIDS.

    You blame the liberal side for the AIDS epidemic? Do you have any idea how many people are dying even today in Africa from AIDS? It’s horrific. Your Catholic church bears a great share of the responsibility of many of these deaths because of its efforts against condom use in these Africa countries. I am talking millions and millions of death of human beings. Your Catholic church is morally (but not legally) responsible for crimes against humanity. I have nothing but disdain for your church, and right now I have nothing but disdain for you as a miserable human being contributing to the deaths of millions of innocent human beings, and for defending the Catholic church in this matter. The Catholic Church is the organization most responsible for the largest number of ongoing but preventable deaths from AIDS in the sad tale of the human AIDS epidemic.

    Have you no shame?

  • sharonb

    …And at least one FMFM executive was having anal sex with the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee….”

    Methinks the lady doth obsess too much!

  • vmanis1

    Do notice that DukeDog has successfully hijacked the thread. Ed’s original post was about a homophobic bigot, and now ScrewedThePooch, er, DukeDog has us talking about redlining.

    One of the most effective troll techniques is to respond to a specific discussion with a scattergun of meretricious remarks, hoping to diffuse the discussion. The Dog did exactly that in #21.

  • sharonb

    It’s OK, we can feast on DiddleDog7’s tears, too!

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    We predicted that liberal policies on crime in the 60’s and 70’s would lead to a massive crime wave.

    Also, honestly, I know the evidence is a little weak, but the best evidence AFAIK we have indicates that the massive drop in crime over the last 50 years in the United States is due to unleaded gasoline. It’s amazing what reducing the lead level in every baby’s blood by at least 2x (off the top of my head, probably more) can do for brain development, and what wonders that can do on their inclination towards violent activity later in life.

    I don’t know whether we can thank liberals or conservatives for that one. Instead, I think the proper person to thank is Clair Cameron Patterson, the scientist largely responsible for discovering the massive amount of lead contamination everywhere from leaded gasoline. I’ll also thank the scientific method. Government regulation to prevent the massive lead contamination of everything from leaded gasoline. Environmentalism in general. Who do we have to blame? Unregulated capitalism. Misinformation, lies, and wrongful ostracizing of Patterson by shills paid by big industry. Anti-environmentalists to some extent, and anti-environmentalist conservatives to some extent.

    Thanks Clair Cameron Patterson. You’re high up on my list of the great human beings to ever live. Off the top of my head, second only to Norman Borlaug.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @50:

    The Catholic Church is responsible for AIDS? What a hoot.

    The Church has taught for 2000 years: fidelity in heterosexual marriage, abstinence outside of it.

    If followed, that ends the AIDS epidemic.

    You a**holes insisted that sexual liberation, gay sex, contraception, etc would bring an era of human joy and flourishing. We got liberated, and we got STD’s, AIDS, divorce, infidelity, fatherless children, and all manner of misery.

    And now you blame the Church, which was right all along.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @54:

    “Unleaded gasoline”?

    Odd that leaded gasoline only seems to persist in so many cities run by Democrats.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal
  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    The Church has taught for 2000 years: fidelity in heterosexual marriage, abstinence outside of it.

    If followed, that ends the AIDS epidemic.

    Are we talking public policy for humans? Or for angels? I’m sure the Catholic Church teaches people not to kill each other too, but if they put into place public policy that knowing and demonstrably increases murder rates, then the Catholic Church would be responsible.

    Preaching to stop having sex has little to not impact on rates that people have sex. The only effect that the Catholic Church is having is decreasing access to condoms, and spreading misinformation about the effectiveness of condoms – against even occasionally saying that condoms increase AIDS infection rates. This is abominable. Your church is one of the biggest mass killers of the century. Hitler only killed about 10 million people. How many people have died from AIDS in Africa that might not have died if your church was not interfering with proper sex education and access to condoms in Africa? Millions die every year from AIDS in Africa. It’s quite plausible to say that the Catholic Church is already responsible for more deaths than the holocaust because of its sex policies in Africa. Again, crimes against humanity. I’m not exaggerating.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    “Unleaded gasoline”?

    Odd that leaded gasoline only seems to persist in so many cities run by Democrats.

    Don’t change the subject. The facts of the matter strongly indicate that the decrease in crime in the US has nothing to do with conventional liberal vs conservative policing policies, sentencing policies, etc. Instead, a massive amount of that decrease in violent crime is attributable to a single factor: unleaded gasoline.

  • theDukedog7 .

    I point out that my (unanswered) examples of correct conservative predictions is a specific reply to Ed’s assertion that conservative predictions never come true. That’s wrong, and I’m just providing lots of examples of how it’s wrong.

    I also note that the flurry of “banning” posts spares me from having to make the observation that Leftism inherently tends to censorship.

    Why not answer the points I’ve made? Surely you have answers, right?

  • scienceavenger

    I lived in Manhattan from 1976 to 1985. There was a crime wave.

    Um, Manhattan is not the entire country, and your personal experience doesn’t trump data. This is the problem with the GOP in a nutshell. You give lip service to evidence, but what you really value are anecdotes. Not. The. Same.

  • scienceavenger

    That’s right. Conservatives made Clinton get those blow jobs in the Oval Office,

    What you did was act like it was a serious issue, while the world laughed at us. so yes, you did create the problem you complain about.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @59:

    Simple test of thesis:

    If leaded gasoline (this is hilarious) is the cause of crime wave, then the reduction in crime associated with unleaded gasoline should simultaneously be accompanied by a reduction in the prison population (less lead, less criminals, less crime!).

    If the leaded gasoline theory is ludicrous bullsh*t, and the crime reduction was due to better policing and longer sentences, then the reduction in crime should be accompanied by an increase in the prison population (more criminals in jail, fewer criminals on the street, less crime).

    The prison population exploded, along with your gasoline theory.

  • scienceavenger

    Don’t change the subject.

    Conservatives have to continually change the subject, it’s their favorite past time. It usually involves charges of hypocrisy. That’s their secret – keep changing the subject in a slow motion Gish Gallop, then declare victory.

    That’s wrong, and I’m just providing lots of examples of how it’s wrong.

    No, you are making ASSERTIONS that it’s wrong, but you haven’t backed a one with evidence. I could, with equal validity, claim I predicted my magic powers would make Obama win the last two elections. You say I don’t have magic powers? Well, Obama did win, so I’ve proved you wrong.

    Evidence. Learn what it means.

  • scienceavenger

    Simple test of thesis:

    You don’t test a thesis with mind games, you test them with data. You really suck at this.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    If leaded gasoline (this is hilarious) is the cause of crime wave, then the reduction in crime associated with unleaded gasoline should simultaneously be accompanied by a reduction in the prison population (less lead, less criminals, less crime!).

    Statistics don’t lie. At least properly done statistics. I again welcome you to check out the link I provided and follow up with the academic papers. Again, AFAIK, this is not settled science, but it’s not a preposterous hypothesis either. The evidence is strongly indicative that this is right.

    Your argument, your premise really, is that all other things being equal, a decrease in crime rates should result in a decrease in prison populations. That’s quite questionable. Police and prosecutors are a fungible good. If crime rates decrease, but police and prosecutors populations stay the same, one might expect that the police will simply go to other, less severe, forms of crime, and prison populations may not change all that much.

    Further, there have been many changes to sentencing and other confounding factors. For example, along with the bullshit (and unconstitutional IMHO) “war on drugs”, which is responsible for a large increase in prison populations. These confounding factors make prison populations a bad proxy.

    If what you said was true, it should be borne out by the statistics. But it’s not. AFAIK, the only statistic that actually matches the data is leaded gasoline, and AFAIK it matches quite beautifully.

    Honestly, for something appropriate to your level of understanding, I would suggest Neil deGrasse Tyson’s Cosmos episode on lead poisoning.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @58:

    “How many people have died from AIDS in Africa that might not have died if your church was not interfering with proper sex education and access to condoms in Africa?”

    Catholic teaching on chastity is sex education. It is very effective. You liberal a**holes have given us the Sexual Revolution, and then you’ve run away from the catastrophe you’ve caused.

    The Church teaches that sex is a gift from God intended for lifelong marital love. You teach kids how to put condoms on bananas. Catholic sex education is better.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    Catholic teaching on chastity is sex education. It is very effective.

    Do I really need to whip up papers showing the correlation between abstinence-only sex education and teen pregnancy rates? You’re living in a delusion.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @66:

    Neil deGrasse Tyson on lead poisoning?

    My sides are hurting I’m laughing so hard.

    Face it, “EnlightenmentLiberal”, Your “leaded gasoline” thesis is a joke. Besides being silly on its face, it is obviously contradicted by the marked increase in prison population that occurred with the reduction in crime.

    I sometimes find it hard to believe how stupid you liberals are.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    Catholic teaching on chastity is sex education. It is very effective. You liberal a**holes have given us the Sexual Revolution, and then you’ve run away from the catastrophe you’ve caused.

    Also, protip: For the most part, sex rates have not changed from the sexual revolution. It’s just a lot more open now. Kids have been having sex for as long as there have been people. It’s a fiction that only recently have kids started having massively more sex.

    Just one example:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_asylum

    It was under wraps back then, and it was also so much more horrifying when it was under wraps and when the Catholic Church was in charge.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    Face it, “EnlightenmentLiberal”, Your “leaded gasoline” thesis is a joke. Besides being silly on its face, it is obviously contradicted by the marked increase in prison population that occurred with the reduction in crime.

    I have already provided citations, evidence, and statistics – including links. You have nothing but hot air.

  • http://kamakanui.zenfolio.com Kamaka

    Why not answer the points assertions I’ve made?

    I like the “I’m way fucking smarter than all of you put together” arrogance of this thought-cop.

    The RCC is an abusive institution, permeated with verbal, physical and sexual abuse that it spreads to it’s adherent families like a fucking plague. Seems you learned the lessons well.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @70:

    Oh, so it was secret sex. The sexual revolution wasn’t a change in behavior, we just talked about it more! Otherwise, nothing really changed.

    They had secret AIDS too.

  • theDukedog7 .

    “I’m way fucking smarter than all of you put together”

    Not much of an accomplishment.

  • http://kamakanui.zenfolio.com Kamaka

    @ 72

    While I was typing my last comment, dog posts this:

    I sometimes find it hard to believe how stupid you liberals are.

    Reads abusive to me.

  • http://kamakanui.zenfolio.com Kamaka

    Not much of an accomplishment.

    How clever. I would not want to be your dog.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @75:

    Sorry. I’ve should have given you a trigger warning. I’ll help you find a safe space. Poor snowflake.

  • http://kamakanui.zenfolio.com Kamaka

    Sorry. I’ve should have given you a trigger warning. I’ll help you find a safe space. Poor snowflake.

    Thank you for letting us see the real you.

  • colnago80

    Re Egnorance @ #35

    Hister, in every public speech, in everything he wrote, professed to be a devout Christian. In fact the Raping Children Church signed a Concordat with him. At no time, did the Raping Children Church excommunicate him or even threaten to do so. Furthermore, it was a requirement that all members of the SS had to state that they were devout Christians. All the concentration camp guards were required to be devout Christians.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @79:

    Heh. I can’t add anything to your comment. You should be the Liberal atheist posterboy. You really should have your own blog.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @78:

    From now on, I’ll add “Trigger Warning” as a macro to all of my comments.

    And I’ll provide a map to safe spaces at the end.

    You liberals are like little butterflies. Totalitarian butterflies.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    http://www.nber.org/papers/w13097.pdf

    http://www.jonahlehrer.com/blog/2014/8/16/the-tragedy-of-leaded-gas

    To be specific, we can consider the change in probability associated with a change in blood lead from 15 µg/dl to 5 µg/dl, a change that approximates the population-wide reduction that resulted from the phaseout of lead from gasoline. This calculation yields a predicted 12 percentage point decrease in the likelihood of pregnancy by age 17, and a 24 percentage point decrease in the likelihood of pregnancy by age 19 (from a 40% chance to a 16% chance). This is undoubtedly large: the lead decrease reduces the likelihood of teen pregnancy by more than half.

    Holy shit. I need to do some more reading on this. It looks legit from my minimal research, but I definitely need to follow up on this.

    Fucking leaded gasoline.

  • colnago80

    Re Egnorance @ #63

    Wrong again. The reduction in crime rates is due to the reduction in the percent of the population in the 18 to 32 age bracket, which members commit most of the crimes.

    Re Egnorance @ #56

    Nobody makes unleaded gasoline anymore as it is illegal to use it because it burns out catalytic converters, required for smog reduction. But of course, I’m sure that ole Egnorance is in favor of smog.

    I must say that Egnorance, assuming that he is not just a congenital liar and really believes the crap he writes, is remarkably ignorant for a grown man.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    Totalitarian

    I don’t think you know what the word means. You are the person who wants to control what consenting adults do in their own private bedroom. You and your purported god are the tyrants. We are the one embracing freedom and self determination. We are the ones embracing freedom of speech and freedom of religion. You are the one who wants to use the state to force your religion on the rest of us.

  • colnago80

    Re Egnorance @ #80

    I challenge Egnorance to find one instance of any public utterance by Hister or in anything he wrote for public consumption where he denied being a devout Christian. Crickets, chirp, chirp.

  • theDukedog7 .

    #84:

    “We are the one embracing freedom and self determination. We are the ones embracing freedom of speech and freedom of religion.”

    Except if you tell me to bake you a cake.

  • colnago80

    Re EnlightenmentLiberal @ #84

    Actually, I think the main complaint that Egnorance has about the sexual revolution was they he wasn’t getting any.

  • theDukedog7 .

    The leaded gasoline and reduction in youth population “theories” for the dramatic reduction in crime since the 1990’s keeps coming up, akin to the abortion theory bandied about a few years ago.

    Tip: there are two basic ways to explain the reduction in crime– either there are fewer criminals to begin with, or more of the criminals are in jail. If there are fewer criminals, then there should be fewer criminals in jail.

    But there are more criminals in jail, therefore there aren’t fewer criminals.

    So all of the “fewer criminals” theories are bullsh*t.

    This isn’t hard, children.

  • colnago80

    Re Egnorance

    Hey, your Wiki article says you only have 4 brats. Michael Behe has 10, and probably makes a lot less money then you do. You slacker you.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    @theDukedog7

    Ok. Do you disagree with the public accommodations act, the equal opportunity employment act, the fair housing act, and the rest of the civil rights acts?

    Specifically, the law also requires that a bakery must sell a cake to a Jewish wedding, a Muslim wedding, an interracial wedding, and an atheist wedding. It’s part of the public accommodations act. A public accommodation, e.g. a business selling services or goods to the individuals in the public, must not discriminate against protected classes of people, such as on the basis of religion, male/female, and race. Do you like this law? Is this law totalitarian? Is it any different to create a hypothetical law which makes sexual preferences into a protected class for the purposes of the public accommodations act? It seems your choices are 1- to roll back all of the advances we’ve made w.r.t. institutional racism and racial segregation, or 2- to adopt a hypocritical double standard where the law forbids public accommodations to refuse customers on the basis of race and religion no matter how much they find them icky, but allows public accommodations to refuse customers on the basis of sexual preferences, and argue that one is totalitarian and the other is not. That should be amusing.

    I expect you to evade, because you appear to be a dishonest shit. Please show that I’m wrong.

  • colnago80

    Re Egnorance @ #88

    There are more criminals in jail because sentences are a lot longer then they were 40 years ago (3 strikes and you’re out laws). You obviously believe in the lock ’em up and keep ’em locked up theory of jurisprudence. A former member of the Michigan Supreme Court, John Voelker, who was also a former proscutor in the Upper Peninsula, had something to say about that theory.

  • colnago80

    Re EnlightenedLiberal @ #90

    The trouble with Egnorance is that he breathes in but he doesn’t breathe out.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    Tip: there are two basic ways to explain the reduction in crime– either there are fewer criminals to begin with, or more of the criminals are in jail. If there are fewer criminals, then there should be fewer criminals in jail.

    Or, — just work with my hypothetical for a moment.

    What if there was a neurotoxin which had demonstrable negative effects on human brain development? What if this was conclusively shown in the lab on other animals, and in longitudinal studies on real human being going from birth to their 20s? What if we also understood the mechanisms by which this severe neurotoxin negatively affected brain development? What if we also had longitudinal studies showing that people suffering from large amounts of this neurotoxin in early childhood were also much more likely to commit violent crimes later in life? What if we could argue that the particular form of brain damage was part of impulse control and people suffering that kind of brain damage would be much more prone to committing violent crime?

    Now, what if we had lots of evidence that this severe neurotoxin had a certain level X in the environment before human industry, including evidence from Antarctic ice core samples, ocean depth samples, etc., but in the last century or so the levels increased by IIRC a hundred-fold? What if we identified a possible way that human activity was introducing massive amounts of this neurotoxin into the atmosphere? What if we stopped that human activity, and we observed that the level of this neurotoxin in the atmosphere dropped by significant levels over just the last few decades? What if we observed similar drops in blood levels of children, and similar drops of this neurotoxin in certain spots in bones (indicative of exposure to the neurotoxin as a child)?

    Now, what we had some reasonable statistical analysis of the phase-out of the neurotoxin on a US state-by-state basis, and we observe that the states which first phased out the human activity which introduced the neurotoxin into the atmosphere also had a matching significant drop in crime before other states which phased out the neurotoxin introduction later? That is – all of the states phased out introduction of the neurotoxin, and all states saw a corresponding decrease in crime, and the states which phased out the neurotoxin first also saw a drop in crime first. What if we observed the same results in several other countries?

    That’s what we see for leaded gasoline.

    Again, far from conclusively proven beyond all reasonable doubt, but neither is this a pipedream. In fact, the evidence appears to be quite good.

  • theDukedog7 .

    I don’t have an opinion on the public accommodations acts. There are good aspects to them (encouraging non-discrimination) and bad aspects (interfering with the right to free association of the business owner.)

    I do point out that public accommodations laws were made necessary because of Democrats, who where segregationists and who treated black people so horribly. I’m still waiting for all of you to apologize for what your party did.

    The gay marriage wedding cake issue has nothing to do with public accommodations acts.

    To force a Christian to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding (or a Christian photographer to photograph a gay wedding) is to force participation in the ceremony. It is not a matter of accommodation of a customer (none of these Christians refused to serve gay customers), it is a matter of forced participation in an activity that Christians believe is profoundly sinful.

    Although I am ambivalent on public accommodations laws, I am adamant on the First Amendment, which guarantees free exercise of religion, which obviously includes the right of a Christian not to provide services for a gay wedding.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @EnlightenmentLiberal:

    Is there something wrong with you? (Trigger Warning!)

    I pointed out that because the incarceration rate went up, it is nonsense to claim that any mechanism decreased the number of criminals. Crime went down because the incarceration rate went up.

    The crime rate in NYC is up over the past year–shootings are up by 70%.

    Are we using leaded gasoline again (or did we use it 16 years ago), or is it because we have a liberal a**hole mayor who has changed police procedures?

    Think real hard now…

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    I do point out that public accommodations laws were made necessary because of Democrats, who where segregationists and who treated black people so horribly. I’m still waiting for all of you to apologize for what your party did.

    We’ve been over this. We have no party loyalty – at least I don’t – and if I vote for a Democratic party candidate today, I bear no responsibility for the acts of people who belonged to the same organization over 50 years ago.

    Further, around 50 years, all of those evil Democrats left the Democratic party and joined the Republican party. This is all well known history.

    http://cjonline.com/blog-post/lucinda/2013-02-05/how-dixiecrats-became-republicans

    If anything, you should be apologizing for voting for the Republican party when Strom Thurmond was still a Republican member of congress. Strom Thurmond holds the dubious honor of the longest filibuster attempt in the history of the United States senate, and he earned that dubious honor while filibustering the civil rights act. Yet, he was still an active member of the Republican party. And this is not just an isolated case, but a consistent pattern of racism that is alive and well in the Republican party today.

    So, actually, you are the one who owes the rest of us an apology for voting for the party of racism and racial segregation. Just today, it’s morphed into the party of sexual identity segregation. Thankfully, your party of evil is losing much quicker this time than on the issue of racial segregation.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    @theDukedog7

    There are other causes to increased incarceration rates than increased criminal activity. For example, stronger sentencing laws such as “three strike laws”. For example, increasing policing efforts and sentencing efforts, such as part of the totalitarian “war on drugs”.

    Further, there are no statistics that show anywhere near as strong a correlation between increased incarceration rates and increased prison populations.

    Further, your example of increasing shootings over a period of a year in a single city is an example of what we call “anecdotal evidence”, e.g. not evidence at all. Come back when you have proper statistics.

    Further, the leaded gasoline model does not claim all reductions in violent crime are the result of unleaded gasoline. Rather, maybe about half of them. Abortion access for maybe another 20% to 30%.

    Further, I can play your game of bad statistics and anecdotal evidence back at you. If incarceration rates are the only things which matter w.r.t. crime rates, why is it that the US has such a high crime rate compared to many European countries while also having a much higher incarceration rate compared to many European countries?

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    Although I am ambivalent on public accommodations laws, I am adamant on the First Amendment, which guarantees free exercise of religion, which obviously includes the right of a Christian not to provide services for a gay wedding.

    The first amendment guarantees no such thing.

    The first amendment, and general constitutional law, allows the state to override a religious consideration when there is a compelling public purpose.

    Example:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sikh-barred-from-jury-duty-after-refusing-to-remove-religious-dagger/

    Example:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Division_v._Smith

    Again, you realize that many Christians of 50 years ago would make the same argument w.r.t. interracial marriage? They argued quite clearly that being a good Christian meant refusing service to interracial couples. But again, the compelling public purpose of the public accommodations act means the first amendment does not apply / is overridden. If a Christian wants to run a public business in the country, they should expect to be forced to serve everyone equally, whether black or white, whether with a black or white wife, and whether with a same-sex or opposite sex partner. If they don’t like it, they can get the hell out of our country. Maybe try to revive the confederacy and slavery too.

    Further, it’s absolutely ridiculous and false that Christianity or Catholicism requires refusing service to gay people but not adulterers or divorced people. This is just another wave of the culture war which your side, the evil side, is losing.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @96:

    Very few Dixiecrat senators changed parties. My recollection is that of 25 Dixiecrats in the Senate, 22 continued to be Democrats and died Democrats. Three changed parties–and were no longer segregationists.

    The Southern Strategy theory is a myth. Nixon had a long history of support for civil rights–he was Eisenhower’s point man on civil rights, and fought hard for the Republican civil rights bills in the 1950’s.

    Nixon was he president who desegregated southern schools. When He took office in 1969, 80% of southern schools were segregated (because of Democrats). Nixon made it a priority to desegregate them, and sent attorney general Mitchell to southern states (Democrats) to threaten them with prosecution if they did not desegregate. Within 2 years, only 20% of southern schools remained segregated.

    http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/5331

    Nixon’s vice president Spiro Agnew was a champion of desegregation in Maryland.

    http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/30/spiro-agnew-baltimore-and-the-myth-of-a-southern-strategy/

    When the South was racist, it was Democrat. As it ceased to be racist, it ceased to be Democrat.

    You own racism, my Democrat friend.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    This is another peculiar flaw to your religious thinking. Original sin is a ridiculous concept. I have no responsibility for the actions of Adam. I have no responsibilities for the actions of unrelated people 50 years ago just because they happen to share the same name. I have responsibilities of my actions today.

    It does not matter which party supported racial segregation or ended it, because that was 50 years, and those parties are now dead. The parties today bear only a superficial resemblance. Things change.

    For example, that same Nixon is the president of the last 50 years or so who did the most for the environment. He created the EPA, the marine animal protection act, the clean water act. He publicly called in state of the union addresses for universal health care with dignity at prices that every American could afford. He would be ostracized from today’s Republican party. If Nixon was around today, people would call him a socialist and/or communist for passing these wonderful laws and calling for universal health care.

    Things change.

  • theDukedog7 .

    UnenlightenedLiberal:

    “If incarceration rates are the only things which matter w.r.t. crime rates, why is it that the US has such a high crime rate compared to many European countries while also having a much higher incarceration rate compared to many European countries?”

    Virtually all incarcerated criminals in the United States were raised in municipalities governed by Liberal Democrats. Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC, the litany of crime-infested Democrat petri dishes.

    Liberal Democrat governance produces poverty, social disintegration, family breakup, and crime.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @100:

    Nixon also started Affirmative Action, to prevent Democrat labor unions in Philadelphia from excluding blacks.

    Calling Nixon a racist is slander, and deep ignorance of history.

    And I don’t give a sh*t about your opinion on original sin.

  • Michael Heath

    timgueguen writes:

    Boring troll is boring. Ed needs to borrow the Red Letters of Death from PZ and ban his ass.

    A more principled response is for Ed’s readers to ignore trolls.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    You didn’t answer my question.

    Quoting me:

    If incarceration rates are the only things which matter w.r.t. crime rates, why is it that the US has such a high crime rate compared to many European countries while also having a much higher incarceration rate compared to many European countries?

    Quoting you:

    Liberal Democrat governance produces poverty, social disintegration, family breakup, and crime.

    Why are teen pregnancy rates much higher in Republican states and abstinence-only sex ed states? Why are divorce rates of atheists and agnostics much lower than the divorce rates of Catholics and Christians at large? Why are the Christians promoting the destruction of stable families, family breakup, poverty, etc., by standing in the way of legalized gay marriage? Families with gay partners are families too.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @100:

    “Further, it’s absolutely ridiculous and false that Christianity or Catholicism requires refusing service to gay people but not adulterers or divorced people. ”

    I decide what my faith requires of me, not you.

    Free Exercise of Religion means my free exercise, not what some a**hole like you thinks my exercise should be. That’s what the founders meant by “free”.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    Calling Nixon a racist is slander, and deep ignorance of history.

    I fail to see where I said that.

    And I don’t give a sh*t about your opinion on original sin.

    And I equally don’t give a shit that you think I have some sort of moral responsibility for the actions of people long since dead (racial segregation and the Democratic party of 50 years ago).

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    I decide what my faith requires of me, not you.

    Sorry, no. Part of the constitutional framework of the first amendment means that the government is in the business of deciding what is and is not a real religion. The courts are not going to take seriously some guy who comes in and says that the Flying Spaghetti Monster forbids him from paying his parking tickets.

    Similarly, I’m totally free to judge you by whatever standards I want, and by my standards of reasonableness and honesty, you are a fucking hypocrite for deciding that we need to discriminate against gays, but not the divorced nor adulterers.

    Free Exercise of Religion means my free exercise, not what some a**hole like you thinks my exercise should be. That’s what the founders meant by “free”.

    I don’t think you’ve actually read anything by the founders. You should go read the Federalist Papers, the official guide to the US constitution. The founders would never buy your ridiculous claim that your religion demands exemption from generally applicable laws that serve a compelling public purpose. That’s also the constitutional law of today. Rather, the purpose of the first amendment is to prevent the government from enforcing religious doctrine on people, exactly what you would want to likely do by allowing and even requiring teachers in public schools to give prayers to the captive and involuntary audience of schoolchildren.

    Free exercise of religion means your freedom to express your views, and to live your life the way you want. As soon as that interacts with the rest of society, as soon as it hits a compelling public purpose, such as the public accommodations act, then you’re shit out of luck. Your predecessors lost the fight to discriminate against non-whites in public accommodations, and you’re going to lose the fight to discriminate against gays in public accommodations.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @106:

    The most racially segregated parts of the country are Democrat enclaves– inner cities, and liberal-loon cities like San Francisco, Madison and Ann Arbor.

    The Democrat Party is the party of race-baiting. It used racial hatred and fear up through 1960’s and it still uses racial hatred and fear. Al Sharpton is just the photographic negative of Bull Connor.

    As Lyndon Johnson said as he was enacting the Great Society social programs that made poor blacks dependent on government: “I’ll have those Niggers voting Democratic for the next two hundred years”

    http://libertyalliance.com/lbj-ill-niggers-voting-democratic-next-200-years/

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    @108

    So what? You’re just evading again by trying to change the subject. I’m trying to avoid those topics, because honestly I’m much less prepared to defend them. I’m calling you out on several points of clear dishonest bullshit. The following topics of discussion are the discussions I’m willing to have. You started them, and I’ll continue them. I am currently not willing to stray into your (ridiculous) ideas of the modern Democratic party purposefully making blacks dependent on the state or whatever.

    My assertions, based on on overwhelming data:

    AIDS is not a gay disease. Most people it infects and kills are straight.

    The Roman Catholic Church is directly responsible (but not legally responsible) for the deaths of millions of people in Africa by working to prevent access to condoms and lying about the effect of condoms and AIDS. For this deed, the Roman Catholic Church is near the top of the list of organizations in terms of number of innocent human deaths caused.

    The US imprisons a higher percentage of its population by far compared to any other country in the world (minus maybe North Korea). Yet, compared to many other European countries, we also have a much higher crime rate. Thus, there are other causes for crime rates than merely incarcerating criminals. Further, the evidence is quite good that stopping lead poisoning from leaded gasoline has had a massive effect worldwide on violent crime rates.

    Republican states and states with abstinence-only sex ed have much higher rates of teen pregnancy.

    In the US, Catholics and Christians in general have significantly higher rates of divorce than atheists and agnostics.

    You are a hypocrite and intellectually dishonest for saying your faith demands exceptions to the public accommodations act for gay people but not divorced people nor adulterers.

  • theDukedog7 .

    “Although I am ambivalent on public accommodations laws, I am adamant on the First Amendment, which guarantees free exercise of religion, which obviously includes the right of a Christian not to provide services for a gay wedding.

    The first amendment guarantees no such thing.

    The first amendment, and general constitutional law, allows the state to override a religious consideration when there is a compelling public purpose.”

    Getting your cake baked at bakery a, when there are bakeries b,c,d,e,f,g,h,… in the same town, is not a compelling public interest. If you’re having a heart attack and need a doctor, that’s a compelling public interest. A wedding cake at one bakery, not so much.

    What really amazes me about you liberals– and believe me, there is not much anymore that amazes me about liberals– is how much cruelty you can casually endorse. Instead of saying “Well, this one Christian has religious qualms, so we’ll just let the couple get their cake at the bakery down the street”, you say “this Christian has to be criminally prosecuted, fined hundreds of thousands of dollars, and loose her livelihood because she won’t bake the cake.”

    I really don’t like you guys.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    @theDukedog7

    That worked oh-so well for “separate but equal”, didn’t it? That argument also applies to any restaurant denying service to blacks. Yet, look what happened when that was allowed. Suddenly blacks found themselves locked out of many businesses.

    It’s cruel to force a business owner to serve all customers equally and not allow their bigoted and hateful ideology to make someone else’s life miserable? Cry me a river.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @109:

    It’s getting late, and I’m not inclined to spend much more time on this.

    These points:

    AIDS is obviously very much a gay disease. The AIDS numbers in Africa are very dodgy. Most African villages lack equipment to do HIV tests, so diagnoses are iffy. A lot of foreign aid money is involved, and the joke in many African countries is “if you get hit by a truck, you died of AIDS.”

    The Catholic church teaches chastity, and will always teach chastity. AIDS is a disease of sexual promiscuity, and you own sexual promiscuity. People who follow Catholic teaching — sex only in marriage– don’t get AIDS. It’s not hard teaching to follow. Just basic self-control and decency.

    The incarceration rate in the US is horrible, because Democrat governance is horrible. The American crime rate is almost entirely from Democrat municipalities. People are in jail in large part because you f*cked up their lives with your idiot social policies. You addicted their mothers welfare, you made their fathers superfluous. You wrecked the underclass, then you blame everyone else for it. Fix Detroit and Baltimore, then we can talk about your great ideas.

    On the issue of religious affiliation and marriage, you miss the important point. Divorce correlates very highly with church attendance. Christians who attend church regularly are much less likely than atheists and non-attending Christians to divorce. There is an enormous range of Christian fidelity– church attenders are much less likely to divorce than atheists. The term “Christian”, without reference to actual devotion to the faith, means very little. Millions of people are nominal Christians without holding to real Christian practice and belief.

    But why are you wasting your time on this blog? Just be a good liberal, and go out and destroy come Christian’s business so you can claim to be a Social Justice Warrior.

  • theDukedog7 .

    one more thing:

    You said:

    “That worked oh-so well for “separate but equal”, didn’t it? That argument also applies to any restaurant denying service to blacks. Yet, look what happened when that was allowed. Suddenly blacks found themselves locked out of many businesses.”

    You seriously misunderstand Jim Crow. Segregation was laws that prohibited blacks and whites from being together. The laws were necessary because even in the deep South blacks and whites mingled quite a bit without the laws.

    That was the whole point of segregation– which was a legal structure. It was to prevent the natural tendency to integration when people are allowed to freely choose.

    Segregation was a Progressive Democrat social program that prevented integration by legal force.

    If it had not been for segregation laws, there would have been quite a bit of voluntary integration in the South. That is in fact why you Democrat bigots needed the segregation laws in the first place.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    AIDS is obviously very much a gay disease. The AIDS numbers in Africa are very dodgy. Most African villages lack equipment to do HIV tests, so diagnoses are iffy. A lot of foreign aid money is involved, and the joke in many African countries is “if you get hit by a truck, you died of AIDS.”

    The fuck is wrong with you? Do you think that straight sex doesn’t transmit the disease at appreciable rates? Straight people are dying too. Yes gay sex is more likely to transmit, but there are still huge amounts of straight-sex infection too. Calling it a “gay disease” makes absolutely no fucking sense, unless you’re out to demonize gays – which you are – and if you want to practice bad medicine and public health policy.

    The Catholic church teaches chastity, and will always teach chastity. AIDS is a disease of sexual promiscuity, and you own sexual promiscuity. People who follow Catholic teaching — sex only in marriage– don’t get AIDS. It’s not hard teaching to follow. Just basic self-control and decency.

    Also of intravenous drug users.

    Also of blood donor recipients – a lot of people got infected that way before we started doing stringent testing of blood donors.

    The fact of the matter is that official representatives of your Catholic Church has frequently lied en masse saying that condoms increase your chances of getting AIDS and have prevented access to condoms. That makes your Roman Catholic Church directly responsible and complicit in the deaths of millions of innocent people. Is that what you want? Would you rather people die from AIDS than have sex? And you call me cruel. What an asshat.

    The incarceration rate in the US is horrible, because Democrat governance is horrible. The American crime rate is almost entirely from Democrat municipalities. People are in jail in large part because you f*cked up their lives with your idiot social policies. You addicted their mothers welfare, you made their fathers superfluous. You wrecked the underclass, then you blame everyone else for it. Fix Detroit and Baltimore, then we can talk about your great ideas.

    This constitutes “moving the goalposts”. You have now changed your position. You now admit that incarceration rates are a perfect proxy for crime rates.

    Now that we recognize that there are other factors involved in crime rates than incarceration rates, I again implore you to look at the data for leaded gasoline.

    On the issue of religious affiliation and marriage, you miss the important point. Divorce correlates very highly with church attendance. Christians who attend church regularly are much less likely than atheists and non-attending Christians to divorce. There is an enormous range of Christian fidelity– church attenders are much less likely to divorce than atheists. The term “Christian”, without reference to actual devotion to the faith, means very little. Millions of people are nominal Christians without holding to real Christian practice and belief.

    Citations please. You just pulled those numbers out of your ass. All of the actual data disagrees.

    My minimal amount of research shows some incredibly dodgy statistics on this one. All I can find offhand are studies which show a correlation between church attendance and lower divorce rates. Ever read that correlation does not show causation? All of the studies I can find which purport to support your point commit that statistical fallacy. The evidence does show that correlation, but that does not show causation. Rather, it seems equally if not more probable that becoming divorced lowers your church attendance, which means the causation might go in the other direction.

    To settle this question, we would need a good longitudinal study that measures church attendance, marriage, and divorce. I could not find such a thing in my quick wandering around google. I would be happy if that could be provided so I could inspect the study in more detail. I would want an actual academic-quality paper where I can analyze their methodology section. (If they don’t have a section describing their methodology, then it’s not worth my time.)

    But why are you wasting your time on this blog? Just be a good liberal, and go out and destroy come Christian’s business so you can claim to be a Social Justice Warrior.

    Wait, are you a misogynistic MRA anti-woman slymepitter asshat too? Color me surprised.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    You seriously misunderstand Jim Crow. Segregation was laws that prohibited blacks and whites from being together. The laws were necessary because even in the deep South blacks and whites mingled quite a bit without the laws.

    Considering what I know of race relations today, and of the lynching and KKK of the past, this is completely ridiculous.

    I’ve heard this fantastic and fantasy quite a few times, although I don’t know its source. It would be fantastic if you had sources for this. Citations please.

  • theDukedog7 .

    If segregation was so inevitable in the south, why did Democrats need laws to enforce it?

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    If segregation was so inevitable in the south, why did Democrats need laws to enforce it?

    What an interesting shifting of the burden of proof. I can play this game too. Assuming that there were such laws, if segregation was inevitable in the south (and north too, to a large extent), what harm would it cause to have laws enforcing segregation on the books?

    I await your reply.

    PS: Here’s a guess. Assholes like you who were in power were not satisfied with voluntary segregation. They were not satisfied with merely most whites and most blacks not intermarrying. They wanted to use the tyranny of the state to enforce their bigotry and hatred on everyone because that’s what their bigotry and hatred demanded. You should be able to sympathize. I bet you’re in favor of sodomy laws too.

  • John Pieret

    @ 67:

    Catholic teaching on chastity is sex education. It is very effective.

    You’ve got to be kidding! Even back in the sixties, when I was still nominally a Catholic, it was an open secret that most Catholics had 3.2 children, just like every other demographic group in America and it was equally known that the “Rhythm Method” wasn’t worth shit. And yet, American priests never questioned why young, healthy Catholic couples had only 3 or 4 kids. It would take an idiot to believe they stopped fucking after 3-4 children, wouldn’t it? Your Wikipedia article says you have 4 children … have you been chase since the last one was born?

    Now. maybe, something about the last pregnancy made it impossible to have more children … or maybe not. Considering how much speculation you have been making about other people’s motivations, turn-about is fair play

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    @John Pieret

    just like every other demographic group in America and it was equally known that the “Rhythm Method” wasn’t worth shit.

    Minor addition: From my understanding of hardcore Catholic dogma, the”rhythm method” is just as disallowed as any other form of contraception. The sin is not killing sperm, preventing ovulation, preventing fertilization, preventing implantation, etc. The sin is choosing to have sex while simultaneously choosing to not have a child. One of my asshat coworkers pointed me towards the online official Catholic Church teachings on the subject, and it was quite clear on this point. Something something about being selfish for having sex and purposefully avoiding creating more kids something something.

  • John Pieret

    There is one thing that I have to say! I went to a Jesuit college for four years and not every Catholic is as stupid as Egnorance. The Jesuits I knew would have taken him apart, chopped him into little pieces and tried not to get it on their shoes when they brushed the remains away.

    They emphasized intellectual integrity above all, which Egnore lacks in entirety.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    Ahh, here it is.

    http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm#

    Ok, I have to admit that I overstated it. As I understand what it says, it purports that the rhythm method and chastity is a lesser evil than using contraception, but it’s still an evil.

    2363 The spouses’ union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple’s spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family.

    The conjugal love of man and woman thus stands under the twofold obligation of fidelity and fecundity.

    2367 Called to give life, spouses share in the creative power and fatherhood of God.154 “Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life and to educate their children; they should realize that they are thereby cooperating with the love of God the Creator and are, in a certain sense, its interpreters. They will fulfill this duty with a sense of human and Christian responsibility.”155 (2205)

    A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

    When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts, criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.156

    Honestly, I’m not sure what that last part means, and I don’t care enough to click the further link to find out. There’s definitely strong indications that if you are married then you must have children.

    2373 Sacred Scripture and the Church’s traditional practice see in large families a sign of God’s blessing and the parents’ generosity.163

    Christianity is so fucked up.

  • John Pieret

    EnlightenmentLiberal @121:

    it purports that the rhythm method and chastity is a lesser evil than using contraception, but it’s still an evil.

    Yeah, Paul the prig, said that all sex was evil but, if you couldn’t help yourself, it was better to do it in marriage as few times as possible as necessary to produce “saints’ to be “ready for “Christ’s return” any second now. When it didn’t happen “any second now,” they sort of allowed fucking, IF it was intended for procreation. Giveing the middle finger by the prols, they invented the myth of the rhythm method as a way to ignore what the Catholics on the ground were doing.

    It’s not dogma, it’s dogma to hide the fact that the dogma has changed

  • lorn

    Sounds like the classic problem with megalomania and authoritarian rule. They organize and push the goal on multiple levels with superior resources and a willingness to tow the party line and make sacrifices. They win, a lot. But then, on the verge of winning it all their irrational fear and paranoia takes over, they lose perspective, do something really stupid and manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Conservatives have won. They run most states, have shifted the entire political spectrum to the far, far right, have established the laws necessary to subjugate all serious resistance, and have stifled the ability of the few resistors to accomplish anything. And yet, with everything going their way, they see guns behind every blade of grass and imagine themselves on the verge of losing. They are on the verge of crossing a line where they discredit their own cause by demanding to control it all and showing that they are willing to go to very extreme lengths to gain the last increment of control.

  • StevoR

    @ ^ lorn : “verge of”?! Reckon they are pretty much right there and maybe even beyond that point.

  • StevoR

    @95. theDukedog7 : fan of Anne Coulter are you? See :

    http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2015-05-06.html

    I wouldn’t exactly call her the most reliable of sources .. See for example Fact-Checking Ann Coulter Mugged. Racial Demagoguery From The Seventies To Obama’ on youtube by Mac Bagua – among plenty of other sources :

    (usual starter) www (dot) youtube (dot) com / watch?v=0zQaujjpKhw

    Y’all know how to turn that into the address yeah?

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    TheDukedog7 “As ranking member of the House Financial Services Committee, Frank blocked tightened oversight over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying in 2003”

    The Frank more strong than Republican Senate majority in 2003! Me leader here! Frank smash!

     

    ““Frank’s interest in allowing free rein at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was not necessarily due to his altruistic motivations for helping poor people buy houses. He also received more than $40,000 in campaign donations over the years from its top officials. Other top donors to Frank’s campaigns included Fidelity Investments, J.P. Morgan and the Bank of America-all institutions that stood to benefit from his position on the House Financial Services Committee.'”

    You raise a good point. We should get money out of politics.

     

    “Why not answer the points I’ve made? Surely you have answers, right?”

    You haven’t listened so far. Why start now?

     

    “The Church teaches that sex is a gift from God intended for lifelong marital love. You teach kids how to put condoms on bananas. Catholic sex education is better.”

    “The Church teaches that drivers shouldn’t crash. You teach kids how to put seatbelts on bananas. Catholic driver education is better.”

     

    colnago80 “I must say that Egnorance, assuming that he is not just a congenital liar and really believes the crap he writes, is remarkably ignorant for a grown man.”

    Okay, now I have to step to his defense. He’d be remarkably ignorant for a child, as well.

     

    Michael Heath“A more principled response is for Ed’s readers to ignore trolls.”

    Sure, but on the other hand, you people have no principles. I had some, but your Liberal Democrat Totalitarian politicians took them away from me and just gave them to some Unworthy Poors!

     

    lorn “Conservatives have won. They run most states, have shifted the entire political spectrum to the far, far right, have established the laws necessary to subjugate all serious resistance, and have stifled the ability of the few resistors to accomplish anything. And yet, with everything going their way, they see guns behind every blade of grass and imagine themselves on the verge of losing. They are on the verge of crossing a line where they discredit their own cause by demanding to control it all and showing that they are willing to go to very extreme lengths to gain the last increment of control.”

    Look, if us Republicans have to “cheat” to prevent you Democrats from voting, then that’s a small price to pay to protect our tax cuts, slut shaming and poor baiting…I mean “democracy”.

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    EnlightenmentLiberal “Also, protip: For the most part, sex rates have not changed from the sexual revolution. It’s just a lot more open now. Kids have been having sex for as long as there have been people.”

    Link!

     

    “That’s what we see for leaded gasoline.”

    Also, lead paint. Still an issue, too.

  • StevoR

    @110 . theDukedog7: “I really don’t like you guys.”

    I’m guessing the feeling is mutual for most of us.

    Yet here you are still. Why? What exactly do you think you are achieving or doing here?

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    @Modusoperandi

    A straight post from Modusoperandi? Is the world ending?

    Also, good point about the lead paint.

  • dingojack

    So if having a ‘liberal’ attitude drives up crime rates which drives up incarceration rates, then you’d expect the much more liberal United Kingdom to have higher incarceration rates than the US:

    England & Wales: 149 per hundred thousand

    Northern Ireland: 93 per hundred thousand

    Scotland: 141 per hundred thousand

    United States: 698 per one hundred thousand.

    Hmmm, nope. [Source: International Centre for Prison Studies]

    Dingo

  • dingojack

    It’s quite old but the Economist puts attitudes thus.

    Dingo

  • John Pieret

    @ 113:

    If it had not been for segregation laws, there would have been quite a bit of voluntary integration in the South.

    Yeah, it’s a shame the darkies weren’t content to just keep dancing and singing in their natural place!

  • dingojack

    It’s also interesting to see how religions fared from one survey (2007) to the next (2014):

    Evangelical Protestants: down from 26.3% to 25.4% (-0.9%); 59.8M to 62.2M (+2.4M)

    Catholics: down from 23.9% to 20.8% (-3.1%); 54.3M to 50.9M (-3.4M)

    Mainline Protestants: down from 18.1% to 14.7% (-3.4%); 41.1M to 36.0M (-5.1M)

    Unaffiliated: up from 16.1% to 22.8% (+6.7%); 36.6M to 55.8M (+19.2M)

    Non-Christian faiths: up from 4.7% to 5.9% (+1.2%); 10.7M to 14.5M (+3.8M).

    [The overall population growth in adults was 227M to 245M (about +7.93% or +18M between 2007 and 2014).]

    This makes unaffiliated the second largest religious position in America (trailing only Evangelical Protestants by some 2.6 percentage points or some 6.4M adults and leading Catholics by 2 percentage points or 4.9M adults). And, as discussed above, unaffiliated can be expected to become the majority position in a few years.

    In further bad news for Christians, they have lost around 19.2% of American adults but only gained 4.2% (Catholics lost 12.9% and gained only 2.9%; Protestants generally 13.0% for a gain of 9.4% with Evangelicals doing the best losing 8.4% to gain of 9.8%) — as opposed to unaffiliated losing 4.3% and gaining 18.0%.

    With a net gain of unaffiliated in all demographics (increasing with decreasing age) and with 23% (up 4%) of those born between 1965 & 1980 (50 – 35), 34% (up 9%) of those born between 1981 & 1989 (34 – 26), and 36% of those born between 1990 & 1996 (25 – 19) identifying as unaffiliated (especially considering the low attenuation rate for those identifying as unaffiliated), the future looks particularly grim for Christianity.

    I see increasing irrelevance (publically at least) in your future.

    Dingo

  • StevoR

    @21. theDukedog7 . :

    We predicted that electing a far left community organizer in 2008 would lead to incompetence and abuse of power in the White House and foreign policy disaster. We repeated the prediction in 2012.

    Which would be a wrong prediction as well as using wrong premises too.

    In fact, Obama has NOT been incompetent or abused his power nor is he realistically describable as “far left” at all. (Faintly left leaning at most, moderate centrist prob’ly really describes him best.) Many folks here (not me) actually consider Obama to be right wing instead. Many here (not me) hate and vehemently criticise Obama on many points because he isn’t left wing *enough* for them – e.g. over his drone campaign against Jihadist terrorists which has, in fairness, been known to cause a lot of innocent “collateral damage” i.e. dead kids and women and civilians who were NOT terrorists.

    Obama was the one who got Osama bin Laden whereas Bush Jr gave up on even chasing that mass murdering evil sack of shit. Obama ended the occupation of Iraq and, whilst not an unqualified success, also got rid of Gaddafi’s dictatorship in Libya among other notable foreign policy accomplishments. Obama has been far more competent and successful both overseas and domestically with, say, the economy than the previous Repub incumbent. Barack Hussein (yeah, Hussein how did he get to be President with that middle name? Oh well, suck it up, guess most folks just don’t care!) Obama has been a remarkable and inspirational – albeit somewhat hamstrung by circumstance (*cough, Obstructionist bigoted Congress, cough*) and at times somewhat disappointing POTUS.

    @96. EnlightenmentLiberal :

    If anything, you should be apologizing for voting for the Republican party when Strom Thurmond was still a Republican member of congress. Strom Thurmond holds the dubious honor of the longest filibuster attempt in the history of the United States senate, and he earned that dubious honor while filibustering the civil rights act. Yet, he was still an active member of the Republican party. And this is not just an isolated case, but a consistent pattern of racism that is alive and well in the Republican party today. So, actually, you are the one who owes the rest of us an apology for voting for the party of racism and racial segregation. Just today, it’s morphed into the party of sexual identity segregation. Thankfully, your party of evil is losing much quicker this time than on the issue of racial segregation.

    Seconded and quoted for truth. Don’t believe me? See :

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/05/republican_presidential_candidates_gathered_for_the_south_carolina_freedom.html

    Not that evidence of Republican and especially Teablaggard racism is in short supply, sadly for, well, everyone really.

    @110. theDukedog7 . :

    What really amazes me about you liberals– and believe me, there is not much anymore that amazes me about liberals– is how much cruelty you can casually endorse. Instead of saying “Well, this one Christian has religious qualms, so we’ll just let the couple get their cake at the bakery down the street”, you say “this Christian has to be criminally prosecuted, fined hundreds of thousands of dollars, and loose her livelihood because she won’t bake the cake.”

    Yeah, how “cruel” to expect that people do their jobs without discriminating against others based on homophobic bigotry! That’s your idea of cruelty not, say, having bakeries and all other businesses mistreat and deny loving couples equality on the basis that they find them somehow “icky” eh? I don’t share your view of what constitutes ‘cruelty’ as y’may have guessed.

    Also I like (not!) the way you assume that so many other bakeries will then oblige the engaged couple because its so unlikely (not!) that there are that many nearby bakeries that aren’t equally homophobic and won’t be pressured or bullied into following the homophobes “christian”* example. Just like so many abortion clinics are shut down and attacked for providing a necessary service. Having a legal right that no one can actually access in practice; yeah, that sounds familiar and harks back to the pre-Civil Rights era don’t it?

    I challenge you to finish the following sentences for me :

    1) I, DukeDog7, believe loving same sex couples should be denied equal rights and ability to have the wedding cakes of their choice at any bakery because _________???

    2) This is different from denying people who are divorced and eat shellfish and rebellious children (who somehow escaped being stoned to death) and others who also broke Levitical Law their marriage cakes because ______ ???

    3) The differences between my position here and that of the Westboro homophobes cult are ________ ???

    Oh & hey Egnornace / Dukedog7, y’might wanna reread a few bits of the bible like the parable of the Samaritan* and try to grasp what it really means and implies.

    BTW. FYI, you can say ‘shit’ and ‘ass’ and even ruder words like ‘fuck’ here, you don’t need asterisks in place of a few letters and we do know what you are saying. No need to pull your metaphorical punches or literal swear words, shithead.

    * As Isaac Asimov – a Humanist Jewish-Russian-American – wrote :

    “The trouble is that the one word that is NOT translated in the Book of Ruth is the key word “Moabite,” and as long as it is not translated, the point is lost, it is lost in non-translation.

    The word Moabite [from Ruth’s tale – it also applies for the word Samaritan -ed.] really means “someone of a group that receives from us and deserves from us nothing but hatred and contempt.” How should this word be translated into a single word that means the same thing to, say, many modern Greeks? Why, “Turk.” And to many modern Turks? Why, “Greek.”

    … We forget the point of the parable is entirely vitiated by the common phrase “good” Samaritan for that has cast a false light on who the Samaritans were. . . To the Jews [of Jesus’ time – ed.] the Samaritans were not good. They were hated, despised, contemptible heretics with whom no good Jew would have anything to do. Again, the whole point is lost through non-translation.

    …The Parable of the Good Samaritan clearly teaches that there is nothing parochial in the concept “neighbor,” that you cannot confine your decency to your own group and your own kind. All mankind, right down to those those you most despise are your neighbours.”

    Source : Pages 266-270 Isaac Asimov, “Lost in Non-translation” in ‘Magic’ anthology Harper-Collins, 1996.

    Seems like so often the case, atheists and humanists and leftists know and are a lot more true to the notions of the ole Rabbi Yeshua (Jesus) than you are, no surprise. But maybe think on that some eh?

  • colnago80

    Re John Pieret @ #120

    I can second that notion. My sister earned her law degree from Santa Clara Un. in California and the professors there would have eaten Egnorance for lunch. Same for Georgetown, although I doubt that Egnorance would consider the law faculty there as representing Catholicism as a quarter of them are Jewish.

  • colnago80

    Re John Pieret

    I am beginning to think that Egnorance is a member of Opus Dei, the fascist Catholic fraternity. He sure sounds like a member. Robert Hansson, the FBI spy was also a member as was the late and unlamented syndicated columnist Robert Novak.

  • John Pieret

    colnago80:

    Whether or not he is a member of Opus Dei, he is a opusdeisymp, as he would say about others.

  • John Pieret

    @ 110

    What really amazes me about you liberals– and believe me, there is not much anymore that amazes me about liberals– is how much cruelty you can casually endorse. Instead of saying “Well, this one Christian has religious qualms, so we’ll just let the couple get their cake at the bakery down the street”, you say “this Christian has to be criminally prosecuted, fined hundreds of thousands of dollars, and loose her livelihood because she won’t bake the cake.”

    Yeah, and we even took away Lester Maddox’s axe handle when the niggers nigras black people could have gone to lunch counters that served “their kind.”

  • Chiroptera

    theDukeDog7, #110: …is how much cruelty you can casually endorse. Instead of saying “Well, this one Christian has religious qualms, so we’ll just let the couple get their cake at the bakery down the street”, you say “this Christian has to be criminally prosecuted, fined hundreds of thousands of dollars, and loose her livelihood because she won’t bake the cake.

    Seriously? Someone whose business is baking cakes, someone who bakes cakes every single day for a living, compelling that person to provide the same service, for the same renumeration, for everyone…that is what counts as “cruelty”?

  • John Pieret

    Chiroptera:

    Apparently, even though the cake baker, who will only … at most … be delivering the cake to the reception and won’t be near the gay-cootie marriage ceremony, he/she is somehow still “sullied” by being in the vicinity of those ICKY people!

  • John Pieret

    Oh, and as to Egnor’s scenario that you ‘just go to someone who will serve you willingly,’ there was a recent story about a small town in Georgia where all the florists would have refused to serve a gay marriage.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/03/georgia-florist-gay-wedding_n_7001288.html

    Yet another conservative proposition not rooted in reality.

  • Anri

    Whatever happened to alla’ that Christian “rendering unto Caesar” business?

    It wasn’t actually just supposed to apply to the literal Caesar, you do know that, right?

  • StevoR

    Two days later and still crickets chirping from DukeDog7 aka (we think) Egnorance the ignorant so I’ve asked again in this thread :

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2015/05/14/staver-gay-marriage-will-cause-holocaust-against-christians/#comment-423672

    with excerpts of my #134 here there where the DukeDog has left a lot of his shit.

    Let’s see if Duke Dog has the guts or ability to meet this challenge or not shall we? (Waiting again.. )