Mmmm, Catholic Tears Over Irish Marriage Referendum

Last Friday, voters in Ireland overwhelmingly approved a referendum to legalize same-sex marriage and the Catholic Church is pretty much beside themselves about it. Keith Fournier, a Catholic deacon who used to be an attorney with the American Center for Law and Justice, gives us the usual “God’s gonna get you for that” argument.

So how could Ireland, by a 2 to 1 vote, exchange this truth for a lie? In 1968, Pope Paul VI warned in his letter On Human Life that separating the unitive and the procreative dimension of the conjugal embrace in marriage would lead to a degraded view of human sexuality. Rather than sexual intercourse in marriage being the gift of self, it becomes the use of another. The manufacturing of life in a test tube or use of the body of a third party as a carrying case in surrogacy replaces the beauty of bearing children.

In the sexual revolution, western culture embraced all of these things, and we are now tasting its bitter fruit. Sin separates us from God and from one another. It also separates us within ourselves — body, soul and spirit. What God meant to be joined together, we have rent asunder.

But there is still more to it. Paul VI warned in 1972 that the “smoke of Satan” had crept within the Church. It has. We face real opposition from a real enemy. At its root, the attack on marriage is diabolical…

When an entire country freely chooses to reject both the laws of nature and of nature’s God, there will be consequences.

Let us pray that those consequences become an occasion for the Emerald Isle to repent and return to what it once knew.

What would you use to smoke Satan? A bong? To paraphrase Prince, this is what it sounds like when bigots cry.

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  • themadtapper

    The manufacturing of life in a test tube or use of the body of a third party as a carrying case in surrogacy replaces the beauty of bearing children.

    Because fuck those people who, by accident of birth or illness or injury, are unable to bear children in the beautiful “normal” way, amirite? As always, they do their best to try to frame the issue in a way that erases actual people from the picture. It’s no longer about the people who want children but can’t have them any other way; it’s now about child-bearing as an entity on its own. Not to mention that, as always, their opposition is a complete non sequitur; IVF and surrogacy do nothing to attack, hamper, or in anyway limit or take away from those individuals who can and do bear children the old-fashioned way.

  • D. C. Sessions

    Ain’t karma a bitch, Deacon? Almost makes ya regret the Church trading moral authority for political power all those center ago. And it was working so well, too.

  • llewelly

    I was thinking of the fake colored smoke used in certain dance venues, actually.

  • cptdoom

    We face real opposition from a real enemy. At its root, the attack on marriage is diabolical…

    And diabolically inept, if you ask me. The “attack” from Satan involves a legal change that in now way limits the ability of straight people to get married and have all the little babies they want. Worst Antichrist Ever.

  • Johnny Vector

    In the sexual revolution, western culture embraced all of these things, and we are now tasting its bitter fruit.

    What bitter fruit? Since the sexual revolution, in western culture, crime is down, violent death is down, war is down, health care is vastly improved, …

    Maybe he means bitter like a freshly-poured pint of Heavy Seas Loose Cannon. Mmmm, bitter… What’s the big deal, you think. But pretty soon everyone’s doing it, and then it’s IPAs everywhere, and not a stout to be found! And where does that leave Ireland? WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE GUINNESS?

    I’m sorry, what were we ranting about?

  • Synfandel

    Back when I embraced conjugation in Latin 101, I kept getting the unitive and the procreative mixed up with the dative and the vocative.

  • colnago80

    Let’s see, artificial birth control bad, check, IVF bad, check, surrogate moms bad, check, abortion bad, check, same sex marriage bad, check.

    Now if he would just reject evolution and AGW, he would be Egnorance’s asshole buddy.

  • dingojack

    Oh ‘the devils smoke’ had well and truly filtered in before 1972.

    For example:-

    Turning then to Ridsdale: On 27 May 1993 he pleaded guilty in the Magistrates’ Court of Victoria at Melbourne to 27 offences against children involving eight victims. He was sentenced to two years and three months’ imprisonment, suspended after three months. He was released from custody on 26 August 1993.

    On 6 August 1994, Ridsdale pleaded guilty in the County Court of Victoria to a further 46 offences committed against children. These offences were committed over 20 years, between 1961 and 1981, and involved 21 victims aged between 9 and 15 years. He was sentenced to 18 years’ imprisonment with a non-parole period of 15 years.

    On 11 August 2006, Ridsdale pleaded guilty in the County Court of Victoria to a further 35 offences against children aged between 6 and 7 and 15 years. Three female victims were included. The offences occurred over 19 years, between 1961 and 1980. He was sentenced to eight years’ imprisonment with a non-parole period of five years.

    He will be eligible for parole on 8 April 2019. He will be nearly 85 years old.

    The evidence about his history of offending is expected to be as follows:

    He began offending against children, mainly boys, between 1954 and 1958 when, in part, he was in the seminary at Corpus Christi.”

    [Background the sexual offenses by Gerald Ridsdale]. NSW Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. Case study 28. Ballarat.

    Pages 8114-5.

    Dingo

  • D. C. Sessions

    themadtapper, once you let actual human beings [1] and their needs into the discussion the topic shifts away from the plane of high – minded abstractions built on other abstractions [2] where sleight-of-rhetoric rules and you can always drive to the conclusion the Church wants.

    And that will make Baby Jesus cry.

    [1] Kings and such excepted. Mostly.

    [2] Turtles all the way down.

  • colnago80

    Re dingojack @ #8

    Ah come on dingo, don’t you know that sexual abuse of children is a mere bagatelle in the Raping Children Church compared to such heinous crimes as use of artificial birth control or IVF. End snark.

  • dugglebogey

    What is the over/under on the number of years until christians are claiming that marriage equality was all their idea and they fought for the rights of poor oppressed homosexuals until gay marriage was legalized? 15 years? 20? They did it with slavery and civil rights. They’re definitely going to do it again.

  • eric

    @7:

    Let’s see, artificial birth control bad, check, IVF bad, check, surrogate moms bad, check, abortion bad, check, same sex marriage bad, check.

    Yeah, the mention of IVF and surrogacy really shows they haven’t learned a thing. “Hey, some people are questioning our judgment on the SSM issue. I know, let’s remind them of two other issues where 99% of the population think our judgment is horribly wrong and out of step.”

  • theguy

    “separating the unitive and the procreative dimension of the conjugal embrace in marriage would lead to a degraded view of human sexuality.”

    Translation: We hate the idea that people might have sex just for enjoyment. As far as I’m concerned, homophobia is “a degraded view of human sexuality” which denies gay people their freedom and ability to form healthy relationships.

    “Rather than sexual intercourse in marriage being the gift of self, it becomes the use of another.”

    More pseudo-philosophical bullshit. Rape is “the use of another” but then the Catholic Church knows a lot about that. Whether procreative or not, in (consensual) sex you are trying to please another person, and trying to meet their sexual desires and kinks. And your own, presumably, at the same time.

    “When an entire country freely chooses to reject both the laws of nature and of nature’s God, there will be consequences.”

    Translation: God’s gonna murder thousands or millions of people, but it’s the victims fault for not blindly obeying sophism dressed as theology.

  • karmacat

    It seems the laws of God and the laws of nature are different from each other. Nature shows that there is homosexuality in other species, but their god refuses to acknowledge nature.

  • thebookofdave

    Let us pray that those consequences become an occasion for the Emerald Isle to repent and return to what it once knew.

    Go ahead and pray, then. I’ll suggest the Lord’s Prayer, as written in Matthew 6:9-13. Don’t forget to check out Mt 6:5-6 along the way, for some good advice from Jesus.

  • jufulu

    Surrogates are totally Biblical, back in the day they were called slaves or sisters (terms to be used interchangeably).

  • sinned34

    Johnny Vector @5:

    That was awesome. And accurate: Pacific Northwestern style IPAs with their boatloads of the three “C” hops (Cascade/Centennial/Columbus) are making massive inroads in Europe lately.

    Really though, I’ll take any excuse to talk about craft ales and lagers.

    10 reasons why beer is better than Jesus

  • whheydt

    Hmmm… God is mad at Ireland. That must be why there are floods in Texas and Oklahoma. God, as we all know, has really terrible aim. I wonder what country will get devastated when SCOTUS rules in favor of SSM about a month from now.

  • EnlightenmentLiberal

    What would you use to smoke Satan? A bong? To paraphrase Prince, this is what it sounds like when bigots cry.

    Of course a bong. But not just any bong. The Bong Of Destiny!

  • Childermass
  • raven

    We face real opposition from a real enemy. At its root, the attack on marriage is diabolical…

    1. Xianity is boring once again. And incoherent as usual.

    God is in charge and everything happens for a reason.

    It’s all satan’s fault.

    Seems sort of mutally exclusive here.

    2. But god created satan and let’s him run around doing what he does. So ultimately, it’s all…god’s fault either way.

    Suck it up Keith Fournier, and go tell god what he did wrong. You are a lawyer after all.

  • jockmcdock

    “The manufacturing of life in a test tube or use of the body of a third party as a carrying case in surrogacy replaces the beauty of bearing children.”

    Does this guy actually know how IUI/IVF/ICSI work? Here’s a hint…Mum gets pregnant…nine months later she has a baby. I’d call that “bearing children”.

  • whheydt

    The irony is that the birth control pill was invented by a Catholic doctor who was looking for a reliable method of contraception that would be consistent with the RCC position. The RCC proceeded to reject his result.

    The best comment I’ve seen about the Irish vote is one from the Archbishop of Dublin who expressed surprise that so many of the younger voters voted “Yes”. He noted that many of them had gone through 12 years of Catholic school. It doesn’t seem to have occurred to him that that (plus all the recent scandals involving the RCC in Ireland) may be *why* so many of them rejected the RCC position on the measure.

  • dingojack

    Yes — all those shadowy, slightly scary ‘third parties’ getting in the way of traditional marriage and replacing ‘the beauty of bearing children’*!

    That’s why the RCC avoided ever getting involved in the adoption of children.

    @@ Dingo

    —————-

    * Clearly – old, white, (supposedly) celibate men know all about actual childbirth (not)

  • dannorth

    Synfandel wins the Internet.

    At least according to those who took Latin in high school

  • Martin Zeichner

    To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw, also an Irishman BTW, “The world will survive his disapproval.”

  • StevoR

    Its renewed and reinvigorated the debate on equal marriage here in Oz too :

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-29/shorten-proposes-to-define-marriage-as-union-of-two-people/6507994

    See also a Lateline interview with Christine Forster; the lesbian – and engaged – sister of our horrid uber~conservative far right PM T. Abbott aka “Captain Catholic / The Mad Monk.” (really – not just me saying this here!)

    Snowball effect I hope! Sad that Ireland beat us to it but sure we can now catch up and at least not be the last Western first world anglophone nation to legalise gay marriage – quite. Probably.

  • StevoR

    PS. See also :

    http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2015/s4244651.htm

    We may at least tie Ireland and the US of A for the year of legalisation too – this one. Hopefully. Overdue but still.

  • Paul Neubauer

    @ Synfandel #6

    Well, of course. That’s declension. Silly rabbit. Conjugationion is for verbs!

  • blf

    The Grand Palace in Rome has its tithed panties (when they have them on) in a twist too, Vatican says Ireland gay marriage vote is ‘defeat for humanity’: “Vatican diplomat seen as second only to the pope insists Saturday’s referendum result shows ‘the church must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation’[.]”

  • annaelizabeth

    I’ve said to Xtians online: “when you say these things, you mean that we LGBTQA+ aren’t human in your eyes”. The Xtians deny that, they say I’m over-reacting.

    So thank you, Pimp of Rome, you’ve proven my point with this quote “Vatican says Ireland gay marriage vote is ‘defeat for humanity’”.