Why Birth Control Matters for All of Us

Sunday was the 50th anniversary of the Supreme Court ruling in Griswold v Connecticut, the landmark case that made birth control far more available nationwide. ThinkProgress has some thoughts on why that has been so positively transforming in the lives of women and families.

For women’s health advocates, Griswold v. Connecticut represents a landmark case that helped establish lasting legal precedent about privacy and reproductive health. And the decision’s 50th anniversary on Sunday serves as a reminder of all the ways in which legal contraception has changed Americans’ lives.

“In part because of the fight that Estelle Griswold led 50 years ago, most people who get college degrees in this country are women, and half of the graduates from law school and medical school are women,” Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood Action Fund, told ThinkProgress in a statement via email. “Access to birth control has transformed women’s health outcomes, educational attainment, and economic opportunity.”

Indeed, a large body of research has linked contraception to American women’s ability to control almost every aspect of their lives. Public health experts — who have designated birth control as one of the most important advances of the 20th century — don’t mince words about the role that contraception has played over the past several decades. It reduces unintended pregnancies, helps women space their childbearing, and leads to healthier babies.

“Birth control, as a core component of family planning, is one of the most important public health success stories of our generation,” Dr. Georges Benjamin, the executive director of the American Public Health Association, told ThinkProgress. “We politicize it way too much and underemphasize its enormous benefits.”

And remember that, as I have said repeatedly on this blog, the real goal of the anti-abortion movement is not merely to end abortion, it is to make birth control far less available as well (and in some cases, actually illegal). That’s why the Hobby Lobby case happened. It’s why we have presidential candidates like Rick Santorum railing about the evils of birth control. And that opposition is, I believe, largely because of the benefits mentioned above. They don’t want women to be able to control their reproduction, at least in part because they don’t want women to work outside the home or get an education. They see those benefits as a bad thing because it departs from what they think is God’s plan for what women should do and what families should look like.

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  • D. C. Sessions

    In part because of the fight that Estelle Griswold led 50 years ago, most people who get college degrees in this country are women, and half of the graduates from law school and medical school are women,

    And they really do make wonderful medical assistants and legal secretaries at a fraction of what men would cost.

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    Look, Ed, our ideal world isn’t so bad. Father working, mother at home taking care of the 2.5 children in a nice house in nice suburbs. It’s even in black and white, with a laugh track and everything!

  • http://www.facebook.com/eo.raptor.3 eoraptor

    See!? Birth control causes exactly what the fundagelicals feared it would back in the 60’s — unowned women who get an education, more autonomy, and more jobs that should be going to the menz!

  • theDukedog7 .

    @3:

    [See!? Birth control causes exactly what the fundagelicals feared it would back in the 60’s — unowned women who get an education, more autonomy, and more jobs that should be going to the menz!]

    One of the most remarkable things about secularists is their fact-free existence.

    Since the Pill was introduced in 1960, the well-being of women has diminished dramatically. Most women today have to work to support their families–either they’re single mothers (percentage has skyrocketed since the Pill) or both parents have to work to support families that 50 years ago could have been supported on one income. The dramatic increase in labor supply lowered the value of labor considerably.

    Sex crimes, rape, divorce and a host of social maladies skyrocketed after the Pill, and women were inevitably the losers in the changes.

    The good thing about secularism is that it is a malady that contains its own remedy. Religious folks will continue to have larger families, while secularists will die out, as one might expect among people addicted to a human insecticide.

    Ultimately secularism will disappear. The important question is: which religion will replace it?

  • corporal klinger

    It’s a truly scary world these people live in. Sometimes I’m torn between my loathing for what they stand for and a feeling of compassion and despair. The children they were, were brainwashed into what they are today. Doesn’t help the victims of their bigotry, though.

  • naturalcynic

    Look, Ed, our ideal world isn’t so bad. Father working, mother at home taking care of the 2.5 children in a nice house in nice suburbs. It’s even in black and white, with a laugh track and everything!

    Modus, it wasn’t 2.5 kids in reality. Unless you consider twin beds for mom and dad was their method of birth control.

    In case duckdawg hasn’t noticed, dad’s sole income has shrunk because it has all gone to his boss, so mom has to work too. And rapes hardly ever happened because good people shush themselves when things like that just didn’t happen to anyone they knew.

  • dragon

    theDukedog7 @4.

    That sure is a long stretch of fact-free, unevidenced, uncited assertions you make there. Care to provide any data to back those up?

    Are those reported-to-police sex crimes and rapes, or actual ones that women experienced?

    Do you think it is better to repress those events as they did in 1965 or report them in much higher (and still low) numbers in 2015?

    Do you think it is better to stay in abusive marriages or simply be trapped in a marriage because the women cannot get a job as they did in 1965 or get a divorce as in 2015?

    I suspect we all know your answers, and they won’t be cited, fact-based, moral, or ethical. Please prove me wrong about your evidence.

  • eric

    Since the Pill was introduced in 1960, the well-being of women has diminished dramatically. Most women today have to work to support their families

    Because we all know no woman would want to be employed. Only menfolk take pride in self-support, the womenses just want to be taken care of. Amiright or amiright duke?

  • theDukedog7 .

    @dragon:

    You’re a fool to think that most women work because it “liberates” them. You’ve been reading too many NOW press releases.

    Most women work because they have to. They work because they have to feed their kids with no Dad around, or because a middle class couple needs two incomes nowadays to make ends meet, or because single women (especially black women) can’t find men who want to do more than just f*ck risk-free (thanks to contraception!).

    Women working in stores and factories and offices all over the country doesn’t have much to do with “liberation”. It has to do with necessity. It is about women who have to put food on the table for their families.

    Go into your average business where women are working like dogs to just pay the bills and make ends meet and tell the lucky womyn how liberated they are. You’ll get slapped.

    Spare us your “the Pill liberated us!” shit. You need to get out more.

  • theguy

    Women have to work more? DerpDog can’t countenance the idea that Reaganomics and trickle-down policy is responsible – it must be contraception.

    “Go into your average business where women are working like dogs to just pay the bills”

    In my state, Governor Imperial Walker repealed the state law requiring women to be paid equally. You don’t blame him, but you blame birth control.

    “They work because they have to feed their kids with no Dad around”

    Which wouldn’t happen if they use contraception. Basic cause and effect eludes you.

  • theguy

    “The good thing about secularism is that it is a malady that contains its own remedy. Religious folks will continue to have larger families, while secularists will die out, as one might expect among people addicted to a human insecticide.”

    Take a chill pill, Adolf. You’re the crazy one, not us. And if fundies have more children, we’ll just (de)convert some of their children. You blame the pill for rape, violence and poverty, but you should look in the mirror and blame yourself, your bigotry, homophobia, desire for control over other people, and your lies. Right-wing economics is the true insecticide.

    “The dramatic increase in labor supply lowered the value of labor considerably.”

    If only there was a way to fix that, like a minimum wage or social safety net programs, both opposed by right-wing economics.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    @DukeDog

    Hey, it’s the Catholic Running Dog, now with warmed-over MRA Bullshit. Fuck you, and the Pimp of Rome, you worthless fucking Cultist Shithead.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1159674804 robertbaden

    Poor women have always had to work………….

  • Al Dente

    theDukedog7 @4

    Since the Pill was introduced in 1960, the well-being of women has diminished dramatically. Most women today have to work to support their families–either they’re single mothers (percentage has skyrocketed since the Pill) or both parents have to work to support families that 50 years ago could have been supported on one income. The dramatic increase in labor supply lowered the value of labor considerably.

    That’s because median income has been steadily decreasing since about 1960. After World War II someone, usually a man, with a high school diploma could get a well-paying industrial job, making enough to support a nuclear family. After 1960, industrial jobs started evaporating, either moving overseas or being automated. Western economies became more service oriented. The working class became working poor (see Barbara Ehrenreich’s Nickeled and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America for what the working poor go through these days). As a result, women started working more and more because one income was not enough to maintain the same standard of living.

    Over the next generation, the middle class got squeezed as well. More and more wealth became concentrated at the top. Even a dumb-shit asshole like you should know this, unless you’re being purposely blind or stupid.

    So which are you? Blind or stupid? Note that these choices are not mutually exclusive.

  • lofgren

    I wish I could accuse Ed of vilifying his opponents and assuming bad faith arguments unfairly. . . But then I would be lying to myself.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    I know women that chose to be wives, mothers, and stay-at-home. I say “you go Girl”, do and be what you want.

    But for any man, Cultist, MRA, or whothefuckever to think that they are going to make my choice for me, no.

    And to use these tired lies….you can think I’m dumb, but when you *talk* to me like I’m dumb, it pisses me off.

    But I think lies, stupidity, and memories of “Leave it to Beaver” episodes are the only arguments these fucking Cultists have evers had.

  • smrnda

    If dogd00d is point that women are now stuck working in shit jobs, I can’t really see how the pill can be seen as causing or worsening that situation. Would a woman struggling to pay the bills be better off without contraception? If a middle income family now requires 2 incomes, would more kids somehow solve that? Seems the opposite.

    I also don’t think that women in the past were living some kind of idyllic existence. Women were working back then – they worked *before the pill.* Women working just became news when it become a norm for the middle class and above.

    And then, do women like myself who are not having children but who actually work at what we like don’t count?

  • Michael Heath

    I still can not understand why any sane adult woman would have anything to do with biblically inerrant denominations; besides condemning them for the evil they wreak. These women stand on the shoulders of giants; and yet they still subject themselves and their children to misogyny; many of them practice such hatred on others as well.

    You don’t see such a large proportion of gay adults standing for such; where they’ve had far less time and support on their path to equality. So what gives with these people? It’s one of the biggest puzzles I mull over.

  • raven

    Since the Pill was introduced in 1960, the well-being of women has diminished dramatically. Most women today have to work to support their families…

    Cthulhu, is this guy stupid.

    It’s a basic error of logic. Correlations do not prove cause and effect. I learned this as an undergraduate. Might as well blame the Beattles for everything that happened after their first album including the shrinking middle class.

    1. It’s true that life has gotten harder for women since 1960.

    2. It’s gotten harder for men as well!!!

    3. Economic inequality has been increasing since 1970. Pay per hour worked peaked in 1973 and hasn’t gone anywhere since. Good jobs have disappeared and been replaced by minimum wage jobs and temporary jobs.

    4. And the fault of this is mostly the Republicans although the Democrats haven’t really done much to prevent it. The 1% has done well while the middle class keeps shrinking.

  • raven

    I should note here that troll dogs solution to his imaginary problem is the usual christofascist one.

    Female slavery and forced child bearing!!!

    Isn’t going to happen. Birth control is wildly popular and acceptance in the USA runs 90%. Use of birth control in relevant female cohorts runs 99% general. It’s less among Catholics at…98%.

    It’s generally agreed that responsible adults plan their families to fit their available resources.

  • lofgren

    The period of time during which any significant portion of American households expected to get by without the woman working was momentary — a decade, two at the most. Even then I tend to doubt that it was ever a reality for the majority of American families. A narrow slice of the middle class maybe.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    @raven & lofgren – I really do think the “Good Old Days” recalled so fondly by Right Wingers and other thinking-impaired people are actually memories of “Leave it to Beaver” and “Father Knows Best”.

  • raven

    It’s known that the christofascists of the GOP are evil nonthinkers.

    1. They want to outlaw birth control.

    2. They are also waging a war on poor people. Which means destroying the social safety net; food stamps, Aid to dependent children, welfare programs.

    3. If they succeeded it is obvious what would happen. There would be a lot of unwanted children born to poor people who have no ability to feed and take care of them.

    This is a great recipe for an underclass of desperately poor people who aren’t going to starve quietly.

    It’s all very…xian.

    PS This is what happened at the beginning of the 20th century. My friend’s Irish father was one of 12 Catholic kids. The family couldn’t take care of them all. He spent time in a Catholic orphanage being underfed to the point of being stunted and caught tuberculosis before it was treatable.

    Amazingly enough he did survive. And ended up an…atheist.

    Same thing happened to my recent ancestor a bit earlier in time. She had 12 or so kids while living in a subarctic wasteland. Eight of them died young.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    @raven – Indeed. It seems these Cultists and GOPers are completely ignorant of history. I see conditions now that seem to parallel both the Spanish Civil War and the Russian Revolution, while GOPer Presidential candidates say things that could have come out of the mouth of the Kaiser just before WW1 kicked off.

  • sigurd jorsalfar

    the Beattles

    Dibs on band name.

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    Anna Elizabeth “@raven – Indeed. It seems these Cultists and GOPers are completely ignorant of history. I see conditions now that seem to parallel both the Spanish Civil War and the Russian Revolution, while GOPer Presidential candidates say things that could have come out of the mouth of the Kaiser just before WW1 kicked off.”

    It’s a minor hiccup. Nothing that another round of tax cuts and deregulation can’t solve.

  • http://www.facebook.com/den.wilson d.c.wilson

    Thedukedog:

    “because a middle class couple needs two incomes nowadays to make ends meet,”

    I take it then that you support raising the minimum wage so that one could support a family on a single income?

    “The good thing about secularism is that it is a malady that contains its own remedy. Religious folks will continue to have larger families, while secularists will die out, as one might expect”

    You realize that was the plot of Idiocracy, right?

  • llewelly

    Michael Heath:

    I still can not understand why any sane adult woman would have anything to do with biblically inerrant denominations;

    Libby Anne and Vyckie Garrison have explained it well. All you need do is read a dozen or so articles.

  • llewelly

    Religious folks will continue to have larger families, while secularists will die out, as one might expect among people addicted to a human insecticide.

    It’s a great plan. Meanwhile, about 79% of non religious folk grew up religious. So thanks!

  • raven

    “The good thing about secularism is that it is a malady that contains its own remedy. Religious folks will continue to have larger families, while secularists will die out, as one might expect”

    Naw.

    What we see is 2 million people leaving the religions every year in the USA. In order of best and brightest.

    Most of us, including myself, are ex-xians. I was a xian for ca. 45 years. Until I ran into people like…troll dog.

  • raven

    I see conditions now that seem to parallel both the Spanish Civil War and the Russian Revolution,

    The peasants are about to grab their pitchforks and torches and storm the castle!!! And that sound in the distance are the tumbrels warming up. We are an advanced nation so they are motorized and made by a Japanese automaker.

    Or the French revolution. I’m guessing any storming of castles is a generation or two away. Things have to get much worse.

    Or the USA could just adopt the Roman Empire solution. Bread and circuses. These days we have food stamps and legalized marijuana, that advanced nation thing again.

  • raven

    “The good thing about secularism is that it is a malady that contains its own remedy. Religious folks will continue to have larger families, while secularists will die out, as one might expect”

    and

    America’s Former Catholics | Pew Research Center

    www. pewresearch. org/daily-number/americas-former-catholics/

    One-third of those who say they were raised Catholic no longer describe … June 13, 2008 … is the large number of people who have left the Catholic Church.

    One-third of those who say they were raised Catholic no longer describe … In the last 7 years 9 million Catholics left.

    Doesn’t look like that Catholic breeder cult is working too well here. The US Catholic family size is the same as the national average at 2+.

  • leni

    The good thing about secularism is that it is a malady that contains its own remedy. Religious folks will continue to have larger families, while secularists will die out…

    Except that isn’t actually happening.

    Maybe because when people have better options than “nothing”, they generally take them.

    Go into your average business where women are working like dogs to just pay the bills and make ends meet and tell the lucky womyn how liberated they are. You’ll get slapped.

    You get slapped by a lot of women, do you? If you asked me that and I accidentally slapped you, it would not be because I was angry that I couldn’t be at home with my kids.

    ***

    Imagine being told all your life that you had one, and only one, career path. And that it was a low-status, unpaid position that left you entirely dependent on another person’s good will.

    Would you accept that condition for yourself?

  • Al Dente

    I see Egnor has followed his usual trajectory. He comes into a thread, dumps an ill-informed turd, and when his stupidity is refuted, brave Sir Dukedog runs away.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @leni:

    [Except that isn’t actually happening.]

    Math leni, math. If two people make less than two babies, they don’t replace themselves. The rise of the ‘Nones’ is well named, because in a few generations, there will be none of them. When formerly religious people join the nones, they merely sign up on the vanishing team.

    It’s happening all over Europe, as native Europeans (Italians, Spaniards, Dutch, etc) make 1.4 kids each couple and the Muslim immigrants make 4 or 5 each.

    Math leni, math. Every liberated woman should know math.

    I strongly encourage women who want a career to get a career, and I help many women do so in my family life and my professional life. But I’m not stupid enough to think that the Pill is merely a stimulant to female job-searches.

    The Pill liberates men a lot more than it liberates women. It liberates the men who fathered the 40% of kids born out of wedlock who abandon their girlfriends and babies. Contraception doesn’t work all the time (unlike abstinence), and it creates a culture of promiscuity that has real consequences. It also liberates men who own corporations who can hire women at lower wages and work the hell out of them because of this wonderful labor surplus.

    So on your career–you go girl! Burn your bra, raise your fist, polish your Betty Friedan portrait in on your wall. Meanwhile tens of millions of women with kids but no man except the kind who just spend the (contracepted) night get up at 5:00 am to work at McDonalds so they can feed their kids.

    Your Pill had real consequences in the real world. For you it was great, you think. For other women (and men) it was a catastrophe. But what do you care, right? You’re liberated. Screw the proles, eh? It’s backslaps all around for the SJWs!

  • theDukedog7 .

    @leni:

    [Imagine being told all your life that you had one, and only one, career path. And that it was a low-status, unpaid position that left you entirely dependent on another person’s good will.]

    What a lovely and inspiring take on Holy matrimony and motherhood.

    A lot of us don’t think motherhood is “low status”. It isn’t that kind of status apparently that matters much to you, but that says more about you than it does about motherhood. And marriage need not be “a low-status, unpaid position that left you entirely dependent on another person’s good will.” Perhaps part of that low-status dependency is the result of the fact that your husband can screw around with his secretary risk-free in a culture inebriated with sexual liberation, and that the same culture and pharmaceuticals that liberated your bra-burning sisters rips marriages apart at unprecedented rates.

    Your ideas have consequences. It’s funny that you always think that your Lefty nostrums invariably produce only good, never any bad at all. You’re wrong about that.

  • theDukedog7 .

    @leni-who-needs-a-math-turor:

    And we haven’t even begun to discuss the baccanal on college campuses. Colleges are liberal wonderlands–a bunch of immature priveleged people who have someone else paying their way who do basically whatever their glands tell them to do. No one in their right mind thinks the sexual environment of colleges is healthy. According to your fellow feministas, colleges are rape factories, although you feministas never seem to pause to think what that means about your leftie ideology that is incarnate in college life.

    Of course all of the high profile “rape” cases have been hoaxes, but we’re dealing with SJW’s so the truth would be quite a surprise. But there’s no doubt that the sexual atmosphere at many colleges is a Satyricon that leaves emotional hollowness and devastation (and STD’s) in its wake.

    But hell, what do you care that another one of your liberal experiments blew up in your face. You’re a SJW, and mutual backslapping, not introspection, is what you do.

  • Al Dente

    Please note that Dr. Egnor is a Professor at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. If colleges and universities were as bad as Egnor pretends they are, it’s extremely hypocritical for him to remain working at one. But he’s a fundamentalist, creationist Catholic. Hypocrisy is second nature to him.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    Aww, Catholic Running Dog hasn’t addressed any of my points. Whatsamatta, Dogshit?

    Like all his kind, he can dish it out, but he can’t take it. Why don’t you spare us your feeble slurs and shaming attempts, laughably stupid as they are, and go suck your Child-raping Cult leader’s cock again?

  • theDukedog7 .

    @AL:

    [If colleges and universities were as bad as Egnor pretends they are]

    Actually it’s the SJW Lefties who claim that 20% of college women are raped (and they’re not talking about the tuition). The number is bullshit, of course, but these are SJW Lefties, so bullshit is their currency.

    But there is a culture of promiscuity in college that is disturbing (I was a college guy in my pre-Christian days, so I have a more-than-passing acquaintance with the culture). Yet that dysfunctional culture–rape factory or not–is pure leftie land. Not a Republican fundie in sight. Just like inner cities, etc.

    Why is it that you lefties always screw up all of your experiments? More importantly, why is it that you never ask why you cause so much devastation to so many people?

  • Anna Elizabeth

    Dogshit, you are a stupid coward, an asshole, and boring.

    Why don’t you run for Pimp of Rome?

  • marcus

    @ ^ You left out “pathetic liar”, “self-righteous moron” and “pathological troll”. (I’m sure there are many others but… coffee.)

  • Anna Elizabeth

    @marcus – do you get the feeling that Running Dog spends his evenings doing ‘research’ on some MRA site, then brings the idiotic talking points here, like he thinks he gonna ‘gotcha, Heathens’? XD

    I expect him to say something like: “You women, lusting after Scott Baio and dreaming of that Hedonistic ‘Charles in Charge’ lifestyle”.

  • eric

    If two people make less than two babies, they don’t replace themselves. The rise of the ‘Nones’ is well named, because in a few generations, there will be none of them.

    LOL, and we are repelling the American tanks from Baghdad!

    It liberates the men who fathered the 40% of kids born out of wedlock who abandon their girlfriends and babies.

    Um, the pill did not change laws regarding child support. Two separate issues.

    A lot of us don’t think motherhood is “low status”.

    So stay home and watch your kids while your wife works. Problems solved. Most college graduates are women now anyway so if we have to limit employment to half the population by sex, it makes sense to choose the most educated sex.

    why is it that you never ask why you cause so much devastation to so many people?

    All things considered, I’ll take a modern western first world quality of life over any other. Its so terribly devastating, everyone wants it.

  • Scr… Archivist

    theDukedog7 . @4,

    The dramatic increase in labor supply lowered the value of labor considerably.

    In 1960 there were an average of 3.65 births per woman in the United States. In 2012, it was 1.88. Most of the decline happened by the mid-seventies. Canada has followed a similar track.

    It’s funny how the halving of fertility rates kept the labor supply from being higher than it otherwise would have been. And part of the reason for this was the availability and use of several contraceptive tools, including the Pill.

    Ultimately secularism will disappear.

    Do you seriously think that the number of countries that don’t mandate a particular religious belief will fall to zero? In what timeframe do you expect this to happen? And by what mechanism?

  • dingojack

    Yep the unaffiliated have headed toward extinction by gaining over 2.74M per year over the last 7 years, while the Catholics have leap ahead by losing almost 0.486M per year.

    Unaffiliated gained by 13.6%* (over 7 years) by switching from other religious positions, Catholics lost 10.9%*. These loses are occurring from all demographics, particularly those under 40 years old.

    So is this how you win? By sticking the car into reverse, shutting you eyes and hoping for the best?

    Dingo

    ———

    * lost 4.3%, gained 18.0%

    ** lost 12.9%, gained 2.0%

  • dragon

    TheDukeDog7 @9:

    You’re a fool to think that most women work because it “liberates” them. You’ve been reading too many NOW press releases.

    Most women work because they have to. They work because they have to feed their kids with no Dad around, or because a middle class couple needs two incomes nowadays to make ends meet, or because single women (especially black women) can’t find men who want to do more than just f*ck risk-free (thanks to contraception!).

    Women working in stores and factories and offices all over the country doesn’t have much to do with “liberation”. It has to do with necessity. It is about women who have to put food on the table for their families.

    Go into your average business where women are working like dogs to just pay the bills and make ends meet and tell the lucky womyn how liberated they are. You’ll get slapped.

    Spare us your “the Pill liberated us!” shit. You need to get out more.

    You didn’t get any of those quotes from me, you libelous cretin. You didn’t accurately portray my position at all. Nor did you answer a single one of my questions.

    Do such evidence-free ignorant ramblings count as valid course work in your class, Professor?

    As for your evidence-free contention that abstinence works all the time…

    Here is an actual citation (you could learn something by noting how helpful that is for fact filled dialog):

    A study by Janet Elise Rosenbaum, PhD, AM (Patient Teenagers? A Comparison of the Sexual Behavior of Virginity Pledgers and Matched Nonpledgers, PEDIATRICS Vol. 123 No. 1 January 2009) found that teens who pledge to abstain from sex have just as much sex as those who don’t, and that those who pledge not to have sex until marriage don’t wait longer to have sex than those who don’t make that pledge. Pledgers did not differ in lifetime sexual partners and age of first sex. Fewer pledgers than matched nonpledgers also used birth control and condoms in the past year and birth control at last sex. She also found that five years after the pledge, 82% of pledgers denied having ever pledged at all. Central to the information we’re looking for, on typical use in a year, “pledgers reported an average of 1.09 past-year vaginal sex partners, 0.11 fewer than nonpledgers.” In other words, on average, those who report using abstinence are not using abstinence perfectly each year.

    Thank you, rhrealitycheck.org, for easy access to that citation.

    Libel, TheDukeDog7, Libel. You might try avoiding that.

  • http://anexerciseinfutility.blogspot.com tommykey

    Math leni, math. If two people make less than two babies, they don’t replace themselves.

    Well, this None is the father of two children, so yes, some of us are replacing ourselves.

  • marcus

    Anna Elizabeth @ 43

    Yes, I also get the feeling that he is so enamored of his own idiotic bullshit that he loves to subject people to his stupid rants just for the negative attention it creates, obviously it’s better than no attention at all (which, I posit, is what he usually gets).

  • Anna Elizabeth

    marcus @49 –

    Perhaps. I’m committed in my life, to push back at Bullies and abusers. He seems to be avoiding me now, which presents the options:

    A) He answers me, and I make him look like even more of a shitweasel

    B) He avoids me, after he accused me of wanting “safe spaces”, which of course shows that he is a cowardly shitweasel

    If nothing else, the lurkers see that LGBTs and women will stand up. :)

  • http://motherwell.livejournal.com/ Raging Bee

    marcus and Anna: IMHO, the most likely explanation is that he just got some shiny new talking-point from someone else — or maybe a nice ego-boost from a new-found friend or reich-wing bubble-verse — and suddenly he feels he can win an argument in a thread where he’d previously been exposed for a laughable fool. I’m guessing that sooner or later he’ll realize his new talking-point is just as obviously lame as all the others, and quietly slink away from here. Again.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    @ Raging Bee – I hope you’re right, and I can certainly live with it. :)

  • http://motherwell.livejournal.com/ Raging Bee

    Anna@50: agreed. It’s important that lurkers, and the public in general, never see stupid malicious shit like DukeDuckDog’s go unchallenged. They rely on emotional bullying, manipulation and intimidation to dominate a public conversation, so the more pushback they feel, the less confident they’ll be.

  • Akira MacKenzie

    Ultimately secularism will disappear.

    Because beliefs are genetic, and once you eliminate those with who hold it will never ever arise in the remaining population or future generations thereof. Nope, once those godless secularists are gone after having been out-bred (with some “help” from well-armed god-fearing governments, I’m sure) by the faithful, it’s Halejuia and theocracy forever! No one will ever even consider the idea that church and state should be one in the same on their own.

  • Akira MacKenzie

    Edit: Hallelujah.

  • marcus

    Raging Bee @ 53 Thanks for pointing that out. I often think, “Why bother? You’re obviously not going to change this asshole’s ‘mind’.” That is a mistake.

    Of course it is not really about the Dumbassdogs of the world, it is about the people they would hurt and abuse if their lies went unanswered.

  • leni

    What a lovely and inspiring take on Holy matrimony and motherhood.

    Well, the “holy” part of matrimony is meaningless bullshit. Motherhood, on the other hand, is at least real.

    A lot of us don’t think motherhood is “low status”.

    Neither do I. But I know how much it’s worth on a resume, so yes, here in reality it is low status.

    People who work in the child care industry do not have high-status, high paying jobs. If we valued the work that much, we’d act like we did. I hate to break it to you, but we don’t.

    We do not put our money where our mouths are, especially when it comes to paying for tasks we’ve designated as work suitable for women. Oh sure. We make some occasional noises about valuing it, much like you are now. That’s seems to be mostly when it’s free and other people are obligated to make the sacrifices and do the unpaid work you don’t have to. Mothers are great when they are doing your laundry and cooking your food. When they are using birth control to limit their family size suddenly it’s the cause of poverty and adultery (as if these things are new) and maybe even the end of civilization.

    I never wanted children, and lucky for me I didn’t have to sacrifice any bras to Gaia to avoid them. I simply went to a clinic and purchased items that ensured I didn’t have to live either dependent on someone else or in total poverty. I am not alone in this. As mentioned above, some 97% of Catholics made that same choice. My Catholic mother made that choice. She didn’t have to live her mother’s life 11 kids by 38 and dead by 40, all of them living in a 3 bedroom house. She avoided that choice because she lived the consequences of letting “God” plan your family for you. She saw her mother sobbing and ripping up her underwear when her period failed to appear, she didn’t need to live it.

    I’m sorry that bothers you, but too fucking bad for you, really. It’s simply not your decision. If you think you will find any large number of women who want to live that like that, think again. As soon as we had the option, we mostly jumped at it. And I doubt very many of us regret that. Some of us didn’t jump, to be sure, but it’s not like Betty Friedan dosed the water with birth control while everyone was conveniently distracted by flaming brassieres. You just go to a clinic and purchase it of your own free will. In a better (not perfect) world that shouldn’t be difficult.

    You do understand how the “free” market works, I hope?

    Perhaps part of that low-status dependency is the result of the fact that your husband can screw around with his secretary risk-free in a culture inebriated with sexual liberation, and that the same culture and pharmaceuticals that liberated your bra-burning sisters rips marriages apart at unprecedented rates.

    Spouses have always cheated. The difference now is that people trapped in such marriages have other options. Sometimes, anyway. Certainly not always. Some marriages should be ripped apart. Humiliation or abuse doesn’t have to be acceptable if you have other options. Some people really would rather work like dogs than live like that. I know I would, and I know I’m not alone. Either way, I’m glad the choice isn’t up to you (or worse, some stupid priest who has never been married a day in his life) to make for all of us.

    Your ideas have consequences. It’s funny that you always think that your Lefty nostrums invariably produce only good, never any bad at all. You’re wrong about that.

    Nothing is “only” good. It doesn’t have to be always good to be better. Even so, I’m not convinced by your fact-free argument that birth control made adultery and poverty worse.

    As for your “math” lesson, people are leaving their churches for a reason. Many, many secular people come from religious backgrounds. Probably most. Most of us don’t choose the Duggar lifestyle because we’d rather not live that. Thankfully we have options other than “church”. When those options are there, people choose them. Which is exactly why religious people who are interested in repressing everything they disapprove favor removing options.

    If we don’t need them, we’ll leave their churches and they know it. If we don’t leave, most of us will water it down until we can live with it. As for your “math”? That only works in a world with no choice.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    Nicely said, Leni. :)

    Now, I’m not as articulate or as intelligent as Leni is. But I can make things plain:

    *We* *Are* *Never* Going *BACK!* I get the idea that cultists and MRAs are just waiting for societal collapse to get the wimmens back in their place. Fuck you.

    Your religion is abusive. Your ideas of marriage are wrongheaded. I wont be a slave, a barefoot-‘n-pregnant housewife, or a brainwashed Cathy Cultwife. Fuck you, your “Holy Matrimony”, your Good Old Days, and your abusive, manipulative and/or child raping cults.

    I’m tired of assholes, cultists, racists, sexists, Homophobes, and all of that. You are all worthless losers. I’m living as I want to live, choosing boyfriends and girlfriends as they happen, and if I commit to a long term or life-long bonding, it will be my choice, and I do not care what your dipshit Bronze Age myths or child-raping priests think of any of it. Shove all your cults, your MRA nonsense, and really any opinion you have about any fucking thing up your collective asses. I’ve taken all the abuse I’m evers going to take from religious assholes and stupid males.

    In closing – fuck you.

  • leni

    Now, I’m not as articulate or as intelligent as Leni is…

    Oh bullshit lol. Also people have seen me post here enough to know better than to believe that. There are many, many witnesses.

    *We* *Are* *Never* Going *BACK!*

    Not willingly, for the most part.

    But yeah. Indentured servitude with occasional noises about how great those servants are is kind of a hard sell. It should surprise no one that this lifestyle choice is decreasingly desirable.

    Free market of ideas, and all that. *

    * Please note- the free market thing is 90% sarcasm. I am not a libertarian. I do however suspect that a free market choice is something people who are too stupid to understand the direct benefits of birth control might appreciate.