Mormons Posthumously Converted the Founding Fathers

Here’s something I did not know. Warren Throckmorton has been doing some digging and documents the fact that the Mormon church claims that the founding fathers were posthumously turned into Mormons by prayer after their spirits asked LDS church leaders to do so. He quotes from former LDS president Ezra Taft Benson:

Shortly after President Spencer W. Kimball became President of the Church, he assigned me to go into the vault of the St. George Temple and check the early records. As I did so, I realized the fulfillment of a dream I had had ever since learning of the visit of the Founding Fathers to the St. George Temple. I saw with my own eyes the record of the work which was done for the Founding Fathers of this great nation, beginning with George Washington.

Think of it: the Founding Fathers of this nation, those great men, appeared within those sacred walls and had their vicarious work done for them.

President Wilford Woodruff spoke of it in these words: “Before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, ‘You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we never apostatized from it, but we remained true to it and were faithful to God’” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1946, p. 160).

After he became President of the Church, President Wilford Woodruff declared that “those men who laid the foundation of this American government were the best spirits the God of heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits … [and] were inspired of the Lord” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1898, p. 89)…

I straightway went into the baptismal font and called upon Brother McCallister to baptize me for the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and fifty other eminent men. [Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1946), pp. 160-61]

These noble spirits came there with divine permission-evidence that this work of salvation goes forward on both sides of the veil…

“I established the Constitution of this land,” said the Lord, “by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose” (D&C 101:80).

For centuries the Lord kept America hidden in the hollow of His hand until the time was right to unveil her for her destiny in the last days. “It is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations,” said Lehi, “for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance” (2 Ne. 1:8).

In the Lord’s due time His Spirit “wrought upon” Columbus, the pilgrims, the Puritans, and others to come to America. They testified of God’s intervention in their behalf (see 1 Ne. 13:12–13). The Book of Mormon records that they humbled “themselves before the Lord; and the power of the Lord was with them” (1 Ne. 13:16).

Our Father in Heaven planned the coming forth of the Founding Fathers and their form of government as the necessary great prologue leading to the restoration of the gospel. Recall what our Savior Jesus Christ said nearly two thousand years ago when He visited this promised land: “For it is wisdom in the Father that they should be established in this land, and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father, that these things might come forth” (3 Ne. 21:4). America, the land of liberty, was to be the Lord’s latter-day base of operations for His restored church.

They teach this nonsense. And millions of people believe it. That’s kind of depressing.

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  • John Pieret

    Ed:

    The Mormon church has the most complete genealogical records in the US because … wait for it … they “convert” everyone after they die. You too will be a Latter Day Saint after you shuffle off this mortal coil.

    Sorry if that is even more depressing.

  • http://howlandbolton.com richardelguru

    “For centuries the Lord kept America hidden in the hollow of His hand ”

    And the Moron church in the Crack of His Butt…

  • peterh

    Depressing? I find it highly amusing. Also, immaterial (!), irrelevant & beside the point.

  • wreck

    ““I established the Constitution of this land,” said the Lord”

    And yet absolutely no mention of “the Lord” in the actual Constitution. Can I get some of whatever these dudes are smoking?

  • raven

    No big deal.

    My cat then turned the Founding Fathers into Pagans!!!

    She also turned all dead Mormons into Pagans. Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Spencer Kimball, and Ezra Taft Benson and a few million other LDS are now…Pagans.

    My cat has all the spiritual authority and power of every Mormon Priest combined plus all the Popes and Catholic priests and every other spiritual leader on earth.

    (It’s zero, of course. 0 times X = 0.) Everyone else can make the exact claims as the kitty.

  • llewelly

    Yes, according to Mormon doctrine, the words of the founding fathers were inspired in part by the Holy Ghost, so they could found the nation, so the True Church could be brought back … guess what “gentiles”, er, non-Mormons, freedom of religion is not for you!

    They induct lots of other famous people too.

  • http://twitter.com/#!/TabbyLavalamp Tabby Lavalamp

    Well, it’s nice to know that the God of the Old Testament is alive and well in the the Book of Mormon, giving land to the “chosen people” that’s already inhabited.

  • caseloweraz

    Wreck: And yet absolutely no mention of “the Lord” in the actual Constitution. Can I get some of whatever these dudes are smoking?

    No. You see, that refers to the spiritual Constitution the Founding Fathers wrote after their conversion. That Constitution is out there.

    “I want to believe.” (Not…)

  • Die Anyway

    By the powers vested in me by.. um… Thor, yeah, no, wait… Odin, no that’s not it… Woden. That doesn’t sound right. I think it started with Z not W. Zeus maybe? No, it was longer than that… Zarathustra… yeah, that’s it. By the powers vested in me by Zarathustra I hereby deconvert all Mormons and every historical person that the Mormons converted in absentia or will (pretend to) convert in the future. There, that ought to do it. Everything’s fine now.

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    That’s nothing. I converted them. To Metric.

  • anubisprime

    Religion has no shame, well believing what they do that is no surprise, but the Mormons take it to a whole new level.

    Just when you think the dimwads can reach no further in to the barrel, they always manage that deeper scrape off the bottom…

    It is tantamount to a ongoing miracle, that’s what it is!

    Who could imagine that religious integrity goes back far beyond the negative number and actually disappears into the imaginary?

  • raven

    The Mormons convert every name of every dead person they can find. They are very efficient at it.

    I’ve heard so much so that they are running out of dead people to convert. Chances are all your dead relatives have already been converted to Mormonism.

    And of course, then saved from eternal boredom and silliness by the power of the cat.

  • caseloweraz

    Benson: For centuries the Lord kept America hidden in the hollow of His hand until the time was right to unveil her for her destiny in the last days.

    So the Native American tribes never did matter, eh? Nor for that matter the current non-Mormon population of the country, I guess.

  • caseloweraz

    President Wilford Woodruff declared that “those men who laid the foundation of this American government were the best spirits the God of heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits …

    Grade A Number 1 USDA prime, of course. How else could it be?

    “I established the Constitution of this land,” said the Lord, “by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose…

    So did the Lord “find” these spirits, or did he create them? It’s contradictory. But hey, it’s religion, so it’s oke. No huhu.

  • http://timgueguen.blogspot.com timgueguen

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the convert them after death idea was originally a recruiting tactic for the Mormons. What better way to ease a convert’s worry about the future of their relatives than by promising you won’t be cut off forever if you convert?

  • flatlander100

    In the highly unlikely event that I would ever consider becoming a LDS, having to accept loony John Birch fellow traveler Ezra Taft Benson as a Prophet of God would be a deal-breaker.

  • StevoR

    The old saying about people spinning in their graves somehow springs to mind here .. Plus the oen about shit coming back to haunt them!

    Also Mormons that’s an awfully extraordinary claim (as per / purr Sagan’s law) ya make there, care to show some truly extraordinary evidence as required that backs it up?

    (Vaguely wonders whether laws about interfering with corpses and desecrating the dead apply apply here .. ? Also how do they get these deceased ex- no actually supposedly somehow ghostly Morons, er..mormons, their magical, magical underwear! Size : skeletal?)

  • sabrekgb

    Such gall these people have. “I’m just gonna go ahead and retroactively claim these dudes I like as part of my religion. No takesy-backsey. For real.”

    It would be hubris if it wasn’t so silly. How do people talk about this to others, or even form these ideas in their head, and not be embarrassed?

  • Hercules Grytpype-Thynne
  • thebookofdave

    Actually, the Founding Fathers is my Schoolhouse Rock tribute band, making this a rare case of Mormon prescient baptism. We returned the favor, and offered Ezra his first retroactive auditing session. He’s currently taking time off to tour the Galactic Confederation before leveling up to OT3.

  • grumpyoldfart

    Americans telling lies to each other. What a surprise!

  • weaver
  • colnago80

    I seem to recall that this issue came up during Rmoney’s presidential run in 2012. As I recall, he was asked to comment on it by someone in the lamestream media but I don’t recall his response.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1234694908 Wrath Panda

    Funnily enough, their propensity to lay claim to people posthumously means that LDS records are a great help to someone researching their family history, particularly me. LDS are nothing more than a curiosity over here in Blightly however; I don’t think they’ll ever gain a proper foothold over here with the whole built in ‘Merka! mythos, though they do try.

    Still, back to Carluke in 1840s Scotland they have taken me. Not sure what they’d want with a bunch of early Victorian coal miners though.

  • StevoR

    @ 21. grumpyoldfart :

    Americans Humanstelling lies to each other. What a surprise!

    FIFY. Maybe? Sure it ain’t just Yanks tho’ ..

  • StevoR

    @23. colnago80 :

    I seem to recall that this issue came up during Rmoney’s presidential run in 2012. As I recall, he was asked to comment on it by someone in the lamestream media but I don’t recall his response.

    Mittens answer was so stupid that he had to call on his magic underwear to magically wipe everyone’s memory of it – which has obviously worked! 😉

  • Holms

    They teach this nonsense. And millions of people believe it. That’s kind of depressing.

    No difference in this regard than with every other religion.

  • carpenterman

    Back in the 1980s, Alabama judge Brevard Hand ruled that “Secular Humanism” was an actual religion, and therefor Alabama schools had to give “equal time” to the tenants of other faiths (by “other faiths”, of course he meant Christianity). In response, Frank Zappa filed papers to establish his own religion: C.A.S.H.- Church of American Secular Humanism. (He withdrew the file after the judge’s ruling was struck down a short time later.) One of the tenants he came up with for C.A.S.H. was “The Doctrine of Involuntary Indoctrination”; which provided that he (as founder) could simply lay hands on a map and decree that anyone in the territory he was touching would automatically become members of C.A.S.H., whether they wanted to or not. He described this process as transcending mere Mumbo-Jumbo, into the realm of Mumbo-Pocus.

    Of course, Zappa did that just to make a point; these Mormons actually believe this shit. Oh Frank, Frank, where are you now when we need you the most?

  • https://plus.google.com/107095827599382907783 NS Alito

    MO @ 10

    That’s nothing. I converted them. To Metric.

    You bastard!

  • lorn

    The sad part is that children taught this stuff, forced to repress their natural intelligence and skepticism, are, barring a major restoration effort, likely to believe without question anything told to them by someone with a specific authority.

  • Synfandel

    raven, your cat is truly awesome. How can I send money?

  • whheydt

    LDS started: 1830. George Washington died: 1799. Enough said.

  • Crimson Clupeidae

    raven, you’ve clearly never heard of L’Hopital!

  • naturalcynic

    I’m shocked, Ed, that you didn’t know this. Truly shocked!!!!

  • blf

    The moronic cult routinely gets called out on this practice, and agreed in 1995 to stop to doing so for Holocaust victims. As you should expect, they lied and are still doing so. A recent well-known example is Simon Wiesenthal, who died in 2005 and was posthumously buggered by the morons in 2006. And, as previously mentioned and even more recently, Anne Frank, in 2012.

    They have so annoyed the raping children cult the palace in Rome wrote to “Catholic dioceses around the world telling them not to provide parish records to the Genealogical Society of Utah” in 2008. (Which is another reason to be highly suspicious of the moronic cult’s genealogical records, which are far more problematic than many people realise — but that’s a different issue.)

  • whheydt

    There have been at least two incidents when the LDS were caught having “converted” Jewish victims of the Holocaust. Jews were…not amused. The LDS church promised to stop the practice, and then got caught doing it again.

    As for the genealogical records…it is the goal of every Mormon to trace his ancestry back to Noah. (No, I’m not kidding.) As a result, they have a tendency to play fast and loose with the records they do find where links are dubious or partially missing. As a result, you have to be *very* careful when using their records. Or you can be smart and not trust their records where you can’t find any other source for the claimed data. (Personally, in such lightweight research I do, I don’t use the LDS records at all. Most of the data I have was handed down internally in the family, and that gets me back to about 1720.)

  • busterggi

    “President Wilford Woodruff spoke of it in these words: “Before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me”

    I knew it, the Mormons are damned necromancers.

  • davroslives

    To be fair to the Mormons (I know, I know, stay with me), AFAIK it isn’t actual conversion. The idea is that these people are given the opportunity to become Mormon. Like, in their afterlife or whatever they now can check the “Mormon” box on the heaven admission form, which gets them into a higher level of heaven (really). Some bits of Mormonism, like that and the fact that there is no hell, are pretty reasonable by some religious standards…

  • http://lykex.livejournal.com LykeX

    They teach this nonsense. And millions of people believe it.

    Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if the average Mormon knew nothing about this. The church hierarchy is curiously selective about which of its doctrines it allows the rank-and-file to know about.

    It’s not that they admit that the doctrines were wrong. It’s just that some doctrines fade from active teaching when they become embarrassing. That’s what happened to the teaching about black skin being a curse from god. You never hear about that one anymore.

  • matty1

    That’s nothing, I just made Joseph Smith a High Priest of Satan.

  • raven

    Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if the average Mormon knew nothing about this.

    You guessed wrong here.

    Baptism of the dead is a central doctrine and they hear about it all the time.

    Mormons are supposed to trace their ancestors back and convert them because they never had a chance to…read the Book of Mormon, invented in the early 19th century.

    And children baptise by proxy as part of their brainwashing. The proxy being the name of a dead person fished out from last weeks newspaper or some old records. Most children have probably done at least a few names, the slang term for pretending to convert the dead to LDS.

  • bornagainatheist

    You know it’s funny and all, but I think we shouldn’t get sloppy in our criticism of religion. Davroslives is right that the Mormon doctrine of baptizing the dead does not mean they are converting the dead to Mormonism. In their perspective, they are OFFERING them a chance to become Mormons so that the dead non-Mormon can get out of the lower spot in the afterlife. Offering does not mean conversion. The person still has to accept the offer.

    Also, it IS a kinder doctrine than that of the Christian doctrine of burning in hell forever. In the Mormon doctrine only a tiny few go to the outer darkness, and even then there is a “do over.”

  • jba55

    @38davroslives: Your description of it matches what I was taught as a child in the LDS church* but Raven is right and the knowledge of it is ubiquitous. Before I left the church at 14 I had done it once and my teenaged nieces and nephews do it regularly.

    *”Oh they’re just being given the option to convert to the one true church whose afterlife they happen to be demonstrably in.”

  • shadowspade

    As a former active member of the Mormon church I can verify that this information is fairly well known – or at least it was for people of my generation (I’m in my 40s). I heard the story often actually. In fact the stories I heard had even more detail. I remember being told that all of the Founding Fathers as well as other great American leaders such as Abraham Lincoln had appeared in spirit and asked to have all their work done for them. This phrase “having their work done” involves much more than baptism. It means they have also had all the other temple ceremonies done for them as well. Other versions of the story have them appearing after the work was finished.

    I’m not sure how things like this work in other religions but urban legends inside Mormonism are rampant. Yes it is a fact that someone did all this temple work for these men but the embellishments beyond that are obvious myth (people appearing in spirit to ask or say thanks). There are so many other types of legends like this.

  • Al Dente

    Necrodunking is one of the main reasons why Mormons go to their various temples.

  • Michael Heath

    Davroslives states:

    To be fair to the Mormons (I know, I know, stay with me), AFAIK it isn’t actual conversion. The idea is that these people are given the opportunity to become Mormon. Like, in their afterlife or whatever they now can check the “Mormon” box on the heaven admission form . . .

    bornagainatheist @ 42:

    . . . I think we shouldn’t get sloppy in our criticism of religion. Davroslives is right that the Mormon doctrine of baptizing the dead does not mean they are converting the dead to Mormonism. In their perspective, they are OFFERING them a chance to become Mormons so that the dead non-Mormon can get out of the lower spot in the afterlife. Offering does not mean conversion. The person still has to accept the offer.

    Both you are presenting the stereotypical understanding of what some Mormons do in regards to the dead. But here I see a novel approach that goes gigantic step deeper into the rabbit hole. From the source Ed quotes:

    Before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, ‘You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we never apostatized from it, but we remained true to it and were faithful to God’” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1946, p. 160).

    So this isn’t about Mormons merely baptizing dead people. Here’s it’s the Mormons claiming dead people are banging on their door demanding to get into the Mormon vision of the afterlife.

    • davroslives

      Oh, no doubt… this is certainly insane (well, more insane than the norm). I just think some people misunderstand it when applying it to the idea in general, that’s all

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    Michael Heath “So this isn’t about Mormons merely baptizing dead people. Here’s it’s the Mormons claiming dead people are banging on their door demanding to get into the Mormon vision of the afterlife.”

    Because their version of the afterlife has an open bar. No booze, though. It’s the thought that counts.

  • sigurd jorsalfar

    So if the Mormons baptize me after I die will that get me out of purgatory faster?

  • Lofty

    They can convert my recently deceased dear atheist mother for all I care, she’d laugh uproariously if she still could.

  • http://www.ranum.com Marcus Ranum

    they “convert” everyone after they die.

    I wonder how they’d react to posthumous declarations of apostasy.

  • https://www.facebook.com/teddyrodo Teddy Rodosovich

    Banshee friggin’ nutsies… like all other religions. Like little kids playing … “OK Joey, you pretend you are Batman in his cave and Shelly & me will help you get the bad guys.”

    I apologize for maybe overstating the LDS maturity level with this ex.

  • rietpluim

    Once I’m dead, anybody may convert me to anything they like. I couldn’t care less. Literally.

  • Synfandel

    With all those dead Mormons, wouldn’t you think they’d have had a dead President of the Church by now?