Romans 1:20 Updated

I would say yes, if one spreads a lie because one did not investigate the claim but simply believed it, one is still lying. Is someone not lying about Barack Obama if they say he is a Muslim, just because they heard the claim from someone else and sincerely believed it?

Well, if this matters to the two of you that much, please make a version that mentions damnable ignorance instead of lying, and I will be happy to share it on my blog, so that people can circulate whichever version they are most comfortable with!

I, FWIW, am of the opinion that someone who circulates a lie, even if they did not originate it, but could have determined it was a lie and did not care to, is complicit in the lie and not merely ignorant – although they may be that too.

No, this is not about science having the authority of a deity, it is about YECs making claims about what science concludes, what scientists say, and what the Bible says, which are demonstrably false, misleading, and deceptive. I am not referring to their rejection of a scientific consensus. I am referring to their lies. And those lies about what the creation indicates are all the more egregious because they claim to believe what the Bible says, and yet one of the things that the Bible says is that nature testifies truthfully about the Creator.

since science and scientists are NOT the people God said to follow, especially when they are unbelievers the only liars out there are OEC, progressive creationists, theistic evolutionists and evolutionists.
Calling God a liar is a grave error and you are being called on it. You are disobeying God so what makes you think you have the truth? 1 John 1 & 2 makes it clear that those who continue to sin do not walk with God, lie and do not have the truth.
Those verses apply to you .
You lie about God, His word and those who believe Him over scientists. You are wrong and YOU need to repent and give up your sins.
Secular science and scientists do not have the truth but are deceieved and they have deceived you. Don’t mess with God’s word or lead people away from the truth of the Bible. God created in 6 24 hour days and evolution was not part of His creative act.

The difference, of course, William, is that the YE Creationist is presumably a biblical literalist, and so should care about what the apostle Paul has to say.

The atheist, on the other hand, finds nothing particularly “self-evident” about this verse, and doesn’t have any particular reason to.

P.S. I have never said what I follow YEC. I am a mere creationist who has been taught by God to see that God never said when He created. All the passage says is ‘in the beginning GOD created…’ Then it goes on to describe the one time supernatural act He performed which provide us many lessons about God.
Your way removes all of that and calls God, Jesus and the biblical wrioters liars and deceivers. In other words, you make them out to be the devil.
You are in deep do-do with God. It would be wise of you to repent if you can and get right with HIm.

No, but if you want to keep saying that over and over despite it being a lie, them just keep in mind who the Bible says your father is.

the question is: why do you disobey God, ignore the truth and follow after secular science and scientists?

i think, after reading “dr. david tee” et al, both here and elsewhere, that the issue is aptly summed up by
“You cannot reason people out of a position that they did not reason themselves into.”

DEEP EMOTIONAL COMMITMENT trumps everything else. they believe without reason, & contrary to reason, & even in the absence of any reasoning at all, in order to demonstrate their view of god as over riding certainty and commitment, so that nothing else can approach that idea. nothing else can even look like it is near the lofty peak of that idea of “faith in god”, not reason, not evidence, not data, nothing.

why? because they have made this allegiance their primary emotional goal. the only way to address it is to show that this allegiance is not to a real God but to a misbegotten figment of the fevered imagination.

The answer is, I don’t, but you do, making God the Creator out to be a liar, and believing the secular scientists who say that you must choose between God and science, instead of listening to your brothers and sisters in Christ who are scientists.

Yes I was, yes I think that by spreading YEC views as a teen I was guilty of lying – when I eventually investigated the matter, I realized that I had been lied to and had perpetuated the lies – and yes, as a YEC I characterized mainstream scientists as liars. And yes, I am deeply ashamed and embarrassed that I was ever connected with that deceitful enterprise known as young-earth creationism.

Since the biblical authors were led by the Holy Spirit and God as to what to write, they did not have to be their either. The question remains–where did God say or give permission to fiollow the ungodly against His word?
We all know the passage in 2 Tim. that clearly states that unbelieving people are deceived and deceiving so why would you risk your salvation, if you have it at all, and disobey God and follow after those who are blind and cannot see?
No you would be very wrong. Nature does not hold any clues or evidence on how God made everything. God already told us thus we do not need to waste time , money or other resources pursuing what we already know.
Those who continue to pursue the study of origins are really being bad stewards and allow people to suffer as they siphon off items desperately needed elsewhere.
Billions are spent on evolutionary studies all the while people, even in America, go hungry at night, can’t work, can’t take care of their families. If you were honest with yourself you would see how selfish and greedy evolution really is and how it is not of God.

Well, they are brothers and sisters in Christ, but clearly your allegiance to Satan means that they are not your brothers and sisters. You, after all, are the one who makes God out to be a liar, by claiming that human writings from the ancient world are the words of God, and setting them up against the evidence of God’s own handiwork in creation. Thinking yourself wise, you have become foolish, and darkness has come to reign in your hardened and stubborn heart. Oh, that you would only repent and seek forgiveness for setting yourself up against the Creator of is amazing universe!

Oh James, quite being such a Sheldon:

http://bilbos1.blogspot.com/2012/07/evolutioncreation-debate.html

Well, I hold myself accountable not simply not to make things up about people, but also not to pass on things I hear without fact checking them.

Of course, I wasn’t brought up to accept YEC claims. It is indeed much more challenging to challenge what one was brought up to believe. But even when it comes to things that we inherit from family or culture, we should at least be open to the possibility of being wrong.