Fred Clark on Pro-Life Les Mis Fans

Fred Clark had a post about the lack of support for pregnant workers from pro-life groups. It included this poignant statement:

I’m still impressed by the number of Good Christian People who loved the recent movie adaptation of Les Miserables, but who, at the same time, have based their entire political and religious identity on making sure that every real woman in Fantine’s situation suffers as miserably as she did.

  • the_Siliconopolitan

    Why? She had a child out of wedlock. The only correct thing to do is to punish her.

    I’m still impressed that this comes as a surprise to anyone.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/ James F. McGrath

      Even if your stance were to be accepted as legitimate (pun intended), isn’t having to work hard and spend the little you earn to care for your child punishment enough?

      But I think you may have misunderstood the book/movie…

      • newenglandsun

        I haven’t actually read the book or seen the movie but the arguments for and against abortion are just so much more complicated than this. For instance, a strong case can be made for abortion in rape and abuse situations or when the mother might die.

        But a lot of abortions are just based off of “I don’t want a baby” or “I really can’t take care of it” and other stupid reasons (this happens a lot of cases). PLUS – killing a pregnant woman is counted as double murder and that kidnapper recently was facing charges of murder for killing one of the victim’s unborn children.

        And on the pro-life side, it’s based on the playing card “It’s murder!” Legally, they might actually have a case. As such, whenever I see pro-life or pro-choice people telling me to make a stand, I usually just ignore them because I don’t like to make such complicated decisions.

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/ James F. McGrath

          Since you haven’t read the book or seen the movie, that explains why you missed the point of Fred Clark’s statement. :-)

          • newenglandsun

            I kind of figured it was something awful happening to her. Lots of real cases of no abortion end in the same way. But the people who were not aborted are also thankful to their parents. So I don’t take sides on the issue either way.

          • newenglandsun

            Hey, James, what do you think of this abortion Venn diagram chart to explain the positions?

            http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-o6cqCBtjhRs/UaehkDGD4aI/AAAAAAAAAUA/Ra92BxbOV5U/s1600/abortion+labels+venn+diagram.jpg

            I would classify myself as smack-dab in the middle of the diagram. Personally pro-life but because I acknowledge that there are situations in which it’s really not too good any way, there should also be a choice.

            PLUS – get this – did you know abortions cost a lot of money? Like hundreds of dollars sometimes from what I understand. Sometimes a thousand. Someone could end up in Fantine’s situation if abortion costs aren’t lowered *gasp*! How cruel would that be?

            • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/ James F. McGrath

              Thanks for sharing the diagram, and for articulating an outlook which recognizes that it is not simply a matter of two extreme positions with no middle ground or flexibility.

              • newenglandsun

                Yeah, I found it on the secularprolife blog yesterday. It was interesting because it highlights the diverse issues around the debate. I’ve always been an advocate that both the unborn child and the mother are equal humans but I do acknowledge that there are situations (many) in which it is better to end the life of a human being. It is hard though. Star Wars really makes you question what you once valued morally.

              • newenglandsun

                Another point that can be made is that the father can be forced into moral obligation and responsibility for the child as well. Not that he will if he’s a rapist. I think the abortion debate fully boils down to where we, as human beings, stand. When it comes to consensual sex, do both the mother and the father accept their full responsibility over the issue? And then at what point is taking the life of another acceptable because sometimes it is acceptable.

  • Valerie Finnigan

    For the record, the Republican Party does not count as a pro-life group.


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