Fresh back from the wonderful Wild Goose Festival and still soaring on the wings of its creative energy and compassionate community. If you weren’t lucky enough to get to this first-ever spirituality/justice/music/arts festival of its kind this summer, I strongly encourage you to begin planning to be there next year! The speaker line-up was stellar, the music was moving and the overall conversation and vibe was deeply joyful, inspiring and hopeful.
True to its spirit and invitation, the festival was welcoming and inclusive of all — including it turns out, conservative Christians! I met one such young man, Devin Murphy, the first night at a party at the Patheos RV. Devin, a theologically conservative Calvinist who is a member of a PCA church, was there – partly in response to a challenge blogger Tony Jones issued to conservative Christians to come to the festival, find him and engage the conversation. Devin not only came, but volunteered for all four days. Upon returning home, he has written the first of a series of posts about his experience hanging out with a bunch of Progressive Christians for 4 days in the woods of North Carolina. We’ll share his posts here over the next few weeks. I am grateful and honored that he would choose to reflect so thoughtfully and graciously about his time at Wild Goose with us, in the spirit of charitable conversation and reconciliation.
The Emergent Church And Me, A Disclaimer
By Devin Murphy (@21centkid)
Ok, I have to come out and say this now so when others say it, it’ll have already been said.
I went to the Wild Goose Festival studied up and ready to sort through Emergent theology with those who subscribe to it. I didn’t go and street preach and I’m beginning to believe that street preaching is not a universally productive approach to call people to the cross. There, I said it.
Anyways, I did have hopes to meet some folks and hear them out, especially their concerns and reasoning for not being theologically conservative (like me). I got that without having to argue with them. I then noticed that the faith of the people attending was expressed differently at such an event than in a podcast interview or listening to a public talk. It’s kind of like if I was hanging out with my Reformed buddies and really letting my true thoughts fly as opposed to sitting with some friends at work and having to hold my tongue. I realized that the most productive thing that I could do would be to just listen to everyone. This consisted of making it known to everyone that I talked to that I was a Calvinist and a member of a PCA church etc… Everyone treated me like a person, just like they treated everyone else there. Although there was one person in particular that expressed some hatred for myself and what I believe in a not-so-gracious way, but that’s another (tough) blog that I will have to write in this series.
I remember listening to D.A. Carson talking about becoming conversant with the Emerging church and ultimately he said that they won’t have a conversation with you. That assessment was proven wrong by merely one night of myself having some mixed drinks next to a couple of RVs with nearly every prominent leader within the Emergent movement today. I got hit with a few jokes about being a Calvinist but that was expected and they were actually funny.
On the grand stage of blog-fights both sides (conservative vs. liberal) have said the wrong things or have said the right things in the wrong way, but my experience was excellent and educational as I tried to really think deep about everything I heard. Even though on the surface I heard things that I had immediate responses lined up for, I decided to stop and listen. For that fact, I know that some will read this and say that I wimped out or that I compromised. To that all I can say is that maybe I did.
I was conflicted about whether to try and stop the fun and get down to business but I feel wisdom told me not to. The fact that I met and spoke with numerous people at the festival who know (mostly) what I believe will grant me access to their thoughts and beliefs and enable me to challenge them based on what they say as opposed to what others say they say. In the grand scheme I can now have more of a chance to say something to them as their token Calvinist friend instead of as another brutal critic with no love for them. A big reason why I didn’t chirp up on everything I heard them say that I believe to be incorrect is because that’s what they always hear. You think these guys haven’t heard all of the arguments before? Seriously, how do you witness to a guy like Frank Schaeffer who was drilled with Reformed Theology and was raised by perhaps the best Reformed Apologist ever to grace the planet Earth? The most that could be done is listen to him and figure out responses later in order to try and steer his thinking in another direction. Notice I said try. When you hear him talk about all of the people of Reformed greatness that he has met and probably bounced on their knee as a child, you will soon realize that this is a guy with his mind basically made up when it comes to anything that a 20-something Calvinist hoping to evangelize him could say.
The fact of the matter is that so much has been said about the Emergent Church and it’s leaders that is utterly bogus. There has been very accurate assessments of their methodology, philosophy and hermeneutic. It can’t be denied that overall they have been painted as the boogeyman and many of their critics would rather shove them out of their congregant’s sights instead of really assessing what is fueling the movement. The Church is infected with slack anti-intellectualism when it comes to critiques that come from the outside. It is a tradition of men to ignore the popular philosophers of our day because they don’t share our theology. We all know that much of the material is liberal theology that has been tweaked for our time in an attempt to get Jesus into places that are usually afraid of Him. While I don’t line up with how this is done, I have seen them provoke more thought about the person of Christ among secular communities far more than I’ve seen in any street preaching venture. There, I said it.
The most interesting dynamic is that I really feel that somebody could be accepted within the Emergent movement no matter what belief about Christianity they hold. If you are a nice person who is gracious to all people and willing to hear people out, you could be a voice within the Emergent movement without compromising what you believe. Many will say that if you believe an LGBTQ lifestyle is a sin or that Hell is real and a lot of people are there, then you couldn’t and wouldn’t be accepted within the movement. After my experience in the heart of the movement and face to face with it’s biggest and most prolific defenders and promoters, I don’t think that’s the case. Such a person would be a tough sell at an event like the Wild Goose Festival but the attitude and graciousness would be welcomed because the conservatives are the ones that the Emergent Church is crying out to. The movement is pushing back with open arms practically begging to be heard and seen as meaningful to the typical American Christian conservative. That may be lost in translation when it comes to public writings or public speaking, but that is really what I saw. They don’t care if they are seen as heretics. They don’t care if they are slandered and scolded online and behind pulpits. Even though they are hurt by that sort of rhetoric, they have heard it all before.
It is painful to have to do damage control when talking to folks typically described as Emergents. Many of them would be more prone to have an open ear to assess various arguments against their position if the tone was one of grace as opposed to caricature. It’s one thing to say they have a theology that is based upon a denial of Sola Scriptura, it is another to say their theology is one of “anything goes”. Those accusations make all the difference. For instance, many assume that such a crowd isn’t much on church discipline or is licentious in matters of holiness, when in all actuality I saw girls at the festival being absolutely gaga over some of the speakers and yet every speaker I saw kept their distance as if they could tell that they could take advantage. While I may have a very different view of sin than they do, I was very impressed by a general piety from them that is rooted in their seriousness about Jesus Christ. That isn’t a justification for how they view Christ or anything of the sort, but by granting them that they firmly believe they are living for Jesus, from what I saw they are living up to it.
By now you can probably see why I chose to make this disclaimer. I will be clear and say that I love the 2% of street preachers that really do preach the Gospel of free grace to sinners. I even love many of those faithful men of God who just aren’t sensitive enough to other people’s feelings to actually take the time to accurately represent them. Every side of this debate has shown themselves capable of shining the spotlight on character flaws, but that needs to end if either side wants to be serious about the conversation.
I could go on for a long time, so I’ll stop now.
Is that the longest blog disclaimer you’ve ever seen? If so, you can thank those who have muddied the waters of conversations in the name of Christ for it.
If there are any questions or concerns about this, do not hesitate to e-mail me at thirstyones@gmail.com. I would hope that I can respond, but even if I end up not, please know that I actively make it a point to at least read all of my e-mails.
Thank you,
Devin Murphy (@21centkid)
http://www.21centkid.tumblr.com
“The movement is pushing back with open arms practically begging to be heard and seen as meaningful to the typical American Christian conservative.”
No doubt; who’s saying it isn’t? It would love to bring those who adhere to the historic, orthodox Christian faith under their big tent.
However, we cannot fellowship with heretics, and the EC is full of postmodern progressive/liberals like Brian McLaren and Doug Pagitt who preach another gospel.
I was not at WGF11, but I would accept being called emergent, and I’m thankful for your post.
As someone who has an UG in Theology, I really appreciate you pointing out that you understand that emergents (and the like) are not simply theologically illiterate, and that they (we) have heard all of the arguments before.
As someone who is also in their 20s (27) it seems like it is becoming more and more common for people our age-ish, specifically, to be very dissatisfied with the way people on different sides of the fence (and there are many fences) treat each. Thanks for seeking to find this common ground. And thanks for saying some nice things, it’s good stuff.
Devin – thanks for your honest post. I’ll be looking for more from you. There is only one church, so it is wonderful when all aspects of the body are willing to seek to understand one an other – which doesn’t at all require agreement. Gosh, there are no two entities in the universe more different than a man and a woman, yet they still seek to live under one roof and even seek a legal license for the privilege. The church ought to do even better.
*Thankful for the post from Devin Murphy*
Deven, thank you for your thoughtful words, I look forward to more of your writings. I am a 64 year old EC person and EC’s don’t want to draw everyone under their “tent” rather the idea is to believe that God has her own purposes for guiding people in so many different ways and all of them are true. All the EC wants is to talk together and to understand each others points of view, not convert. Thanks again.
Ken Silva showing up to bash everyone, big surprise there. Great blog I wish I could have gone.
good post. thanks for writing it. no wifi at cornerstone so i am coming in late. sorry.
forget the “emergent” (or whatever) Labels. just deal with the people and the ideas. that’s what i’d love to see in your blog. tell me where you disagree and why. the labeling of something as “emergent” is just another way to not talk about it meaningfully.
Something good, something positive, something substantial. Devin…you are to be commended for your decision to attend the event. I wish I could have been there to participate in it. It is people like yourself that understand that respectful disagreement through the act of civil discourse is paramount to spiritual growth and understanding. Peace be with you!
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@Ken Silva: However, we cannot fellowship with heretics, and the EC is full of postmodern progressive/liberals like Brian McLaren and Doug Pagitt who preach another gospel.
This is how the majority of them will always see you. This will never change, no matter how desperately you Emergents want want it to.
I once attended a talk given by Jim Wallis, in which he expressed his desire to bring conservatives to the table. It will never happen. A conservative evangelical doesn’t understand the concept of dialogue; to him, it’s merely a word which means “I’ll sit here and pretend to listen until it’s my turn to tell you how wrong you are.” Occasionally, you may run across a maverick like Devin, who may try to listen – but even then, as a Calvinist, he thinks the vast majority of human beings were created so that God could spend eternity enjoying the spectacle of their suffering, and that this is somehow “good” in a way we can’t, with our puny human minds, comprehend. If you think he’s even capable of “getting it”, you are tragically mistaken.
I would have much more respect for your leaders, people like Brian McLaren and Jim Wallis, if they would simply side with Mainline, Progressive, and non-Christians, and give up on the notion of peaceful coexistence with conservatives and fundamentalists. Of course, they won’t; they cling desperately to the idea that you are all “brothers and sisters in Christ”. This is why, as a non-Christian, I’ll never completely trust them. The tragic irony is that the conservatives will never reciprocate.
1) **The most interesting dynamic is that I really feel that somebody could be accepted within the Emergent movement no matter what belief about Christianity they hold. If you are a nice person who is gracious to all people and willing to hear people out, you could be a voice within the Emergent movement without compromising what you believe.** This seems very unlikely. John Piper, Al Mohler, Kevin DeYoung, and D.A. Carson are presumably nice people who are gracious to others and willing to hear them out (as evidence by their engagement with the writings of Emergent leaders), but they would NOT be accepted within the Emergent movement.
2) **They don’t care if they are seen as heretics.** Conceding that perception is not reality, Emergents should care very much if they are heretics. Where is the holy self-criticism? If there are trees that bear bad fruit in their midst, and that seems to be the case, they should cut them down and throw them into the fire.
1) What Piper, Mohler, DeYoung and Carson don’t do is public interactions with Emergent leaders. Engaging them personally is much different than engaging their writings.
2) Considering that Pete Rollins’ book “The Orthodox Heretic” is pretty big within the Emergent stream of readers, I beg to differ. Of course the Emergent leaders wouldn’t call themselves heretics but many do heartily know that there are many who do call them heretics.
Deven, thank you for your thoughtful words, I look forward to more of your writings. I am a 64 year old EC person and EC’s don’t want to draw everyone under their “tent” rather the idea is to believe that God has her own purposes for guiding people in so many different ways and all of them are true. All the EC wants is to talk together and to understand each others points of view, not convert. Thanks again.
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This is encouraging to read. I was raised with a lot of harsh and strict beliefs that as I’ve aged and spent more time with people outside my bubble….well, sadly, I’ve seen how much those beliefs have alienated people from God. I hunger for community that lives with the fierce love of Christ for the broken and hurt and lost. Not to stand on a corner and draw lines that separate. Any people who love Christ to the point of “loss of reason” are people I want to be with.
Also, the fact that the EC are willing to pursue conservatives relationally is yet another reason for me to believe they pursue the heart of God. Having grace for sinners is excellent, but having grace for people who use God’s name to beat people over the head is truly beyond the comprehension of my “that’s not fair” heart. Stretching into grace for all….
Thank you for pursuing with openness. Looking forward to hearing more from you.
Great to read respectful dialog. Great to see folks still identify as Calvinists. As a grad of Calvin College and serious student and practitioner of the Reformed path, I resonate with this. At same time 45 years after Calvin College, I find myself so much less interested in right thinking, and so much more driven to be a follower. Currently just “Tagging along after Jesus.” Not so concerned about whose theology I’m engaging. Have been trying to be an Anabaptist for the past 20 years. Seems good to simplify and try to focus on Jesus’ life and Jesus teaching – especially Sermon on the Mount. Yes, it’s hard for an angry Calvinist to lean into pacifism… But Jesus was pretty clear about that, if I don’t “spiritualized” his teaching and just take him at face value. Yes, radical! And the great Calvinist aim of “tansforming culture” seems more doable when one can operate from a strong, supportive commuxnity of followers – and the Anabaptists really have a lot to show us on that score.
So my younger, Calvinist siblings, I hold you before God as you walk the path… and I pray you’ll encounter opportunities as I have to enrich my Calvinism with the best of some other followers of Jesus. These days – tongue in cheek- I see myself as a “recovering Calvinist.” May we all incarnate and live out the Peace of Christ.
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