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	<title>Comments on: Multiple Authorities</title>
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	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/02/multiple-authorities/</link>
	<description>Exploring Mormon Thought, Culture, and Texts</description>
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		<title>By: TT</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/02/multiple-authorities/#comment-6341</link>
		<dc:creator>TT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2011 14:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Enoch,
What I mean by that is that there once was a time when doctrinal proficiency, as defined by earlier standards, was a qualification for office.  I&#039;m not sure that this is the case anymore.  That is to say, I think that the decline of GA&#039;s writing important and influential theological works is not simply that they have backed away from such projects as a matter of practice, but also as a matter of the lack of skills to do so, as defined by current standards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enoch,<br />
What I mean by that is that there once was a time when doctrinal proficiency, as defined by earlier standards, was a qualification for office.  I&#8217;m not sure that this is the case anymore.  That is to say, I think that the decline of GA&#8217;s writing important and influential theological works is not simply that they have backed away from such projects as a matter of practice, but also as a matter of the lack of skills to do so, as defined by current standards.</p>
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		<title>By: Enoch</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/02/multiple-authorities/#comment-6340</link>
		<dc:creator>Enoch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2011 05:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=887#comment-6340</guid>
		<description>TT, 

What is your reference for this shift in policy? 

&quot;those who are “experts” are no longer called to the rank of GA.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TT, </p>
<p>What is your reference for this shift in policy? </p>
<p>&#8220;those who are “experts” are no longer called to the rank of GA.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Where Todd Wood and Jettboy can have it Out &#124; Faith-Promoting Rumor</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/02/multiple-authorities/#comment-6339</link>
		<dc:creator>Where Todd Wood and Jettboy can have it Out &#124; Faith-Promoting Rumor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=887#comment-6339</guid>
		<description>[...] those interested, I&#8217;ve previously posted some thoughts on related issues here and here. I&#8217;m more than happy to reengage the ideas in those posts. I suppose past debates about this [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] those interested, I&#8217;ve previously posted some thoughts on related issues here and here. I&#8217;m more than happy to reengage the ideas in those posts. I suppose past debates about this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BrianJ</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/02/multiple-authorities/#comment-6338</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=887#comment-6338</guid>
		<description>#9, perhaps, then, what you are seeing is not a shift of the &lt;i&gt;general membership&lt;/i&gt; of the Church viewing academics as authorities, as much as it is a shift of the &lt;i&gt;GAs&lt;/i&gt; seeing academics as authorities---and deferring to them.

(I know that if I were a GA*, I&#039;d take into consideration the treatment BRM often receives in scholarly discussions....)

_________
* And if I ever am, smallaxe, then I&#039;m making you write all my talks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#9, perhaps, then, what you are seeing is not a shift of the <i>general membership</i> of the Church viewing academics as authorities, as much as it is a shift of the <i>GAs</i> seeing academics as authorities&#8212;and deferring to them.</p>
<p>(I know that if I were a GA*, I&#8217;d take into consideration the treatment BRM often receives in scholarly discussions&#8230;.)</p>
<p>_________<br />
* And if I ever am, smallaxe, then I&#8217;m making you write all my talks.</p>
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		<title>By: Rameumptom</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/02/multiple-authorities/#comment-6337</link>
		<dc:creator>Rameumptom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=887#comment-6337</guid>
		<description>I see the shift in a different way.  I think in previous times, when communications and books, etc., were limited, it made sense to have General Authorities as the main writers and scholars.

Given most GA books are on discussing doctrine, and not on exegesis, I don&#039;t think there is much on the shift considered above. Nibley was allowed to play in his area of expertise, and write on it.

We can probably name on one hand the GA/scholars that did attempt to combine religion and science(Talmage, Widstoe, Roberts, any others?). I do agree we are leaving the JFSmith/McConkie era, where their dynasty of doctrinal interpretation is slowly fading away.

Today the GAs are moving their focus away from speculative areas and more into the direction Pres Packer has given to &quot;teach the doctrine.&quot;  This takes us, IMO, to a place where the Church is giving scholarship back to the scholars, and retaining the determination of what is and isn&#039;t doctrine - the things that save and exalt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the shift in a different way.  I think in previous times, when communications and books, etc., were limited, it made sense to have General Authorities as the main writers and scholars.</p>
<p>Given most GA books are on discussing doctrine, and not on exegesis, I don&#8217;t think there is much on the shift considered above. Nibley was allowed to play in his area of expertise, and write on it.</p>
<p>We can probably name on one hand the GA/scholars that did attempt to combine religion and science(Talmage, Widstoe, Roberts, any others?). I do agree we are leaving the JFSmith/McConkie era, where their dynasty of doctrinal interpretation is slowly fading away.</p>
<p>Today the GAs are moving their focus away from speculative areas and more into the direction Pres Packer has given to &#8220;teach the doctrine.&#8221;  This takes us, IMO, to a place where the Church is giving scholarship back to the scholars, and retaining the determination of what is and isn&#8217;t doctrine &#8211; the things that save and exalt.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark D.</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/02/multiple-authorities/#comment-6336</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=887#comment-6336</guid>
		<description>Smallaxe (#9), I agree, have noticed the same shift, and think it is a good thing.  My quibble is with the semantics of the word &quot;authority&quot;.

In the Catholic tradition for example, tradition is authoritative on all sorts of doctrinal points, but it is developed by a quasi-academic process over centuries where cardinals and the like bear naturally disproportionate influence, but cannot overturn a doctrine overnight without a lot of persuading relative to where the previous tradition got it wrong. Papal encyclicals make great reading.

It seems to me that LDS scholars are highly respected by the  general authorities for their knowledge on technical points.  I think they are a long way from being respected in a way that might quasi-authoritatively resolve endless disputes about non-technical points where the Church doesn&#039;t see fit to have a position.  Not without a consensus.

Without leadership involvement on certain methodological issues, I don&#039;t think that a quasi-authoritative consensus on most non-technical points can even develop.  And even such a consensus would never be considered authoritative by most people until it was endorsed by the Church leadership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Smallaxe (#9), I agree, have noticed the same shift, and think it is a good thing.  My quibble is with the semantics of the word &#8220;authority&#8221;.</p>
<p>In the Catholic tradition for example, tradition is authoritative on all sorts of doctrinal points, but it is developed by a quasi-academic process over centuries where cardinals and the like bear naturally disproportionate influence, but cannot overturn a doctrine overnight without a lot of persuading relative to where the previous tradition got it wrong. Papal encyclicals make great reading.</p>
<p>It seems to me that LDS scholars are highly respected by the  general authorities for their knowledge on technical points.  I think they are a long way from being respected in a way that might quasi-authoritatively resolve endless disputes about non-technical points where the Church doesn&#8217;t see fit to have a position.  Not without a consensus.</p>
<p>Without leadership involvement on certain methodological issues, I don&#8217;t think that a quasi-authoritative consensus on most non-technical points can even develop.  And even such a consensus would never be considered authoritative by most people until it was endorsed by the Church leadership.</p>
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		<title>By: smallaxe</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/02/multiple-authorities/#comment-6335</link>
		<dc:creator>smallaxe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 03:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=887#comment-6335</guid>
		<description>Mark D.,

What do you think of my point in #9?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark D.,</p>
<p>What do you think of my point in #9?</p>
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		<title>By: smallaxe</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/02/multiple-authorities/#comment-6334</link>
		<dc:creator>smallaxe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 03:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=887#comment-6334</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; I don’t see this shift at all. Admittedly, I am not dialed in to Mormon scholarship like the rest of you. &lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s part of the reason I raise this issue. It&#039;s hard to tell how generalizable our experiences are. Has my circle simply changed over the years, or is this a much larger phenomenon?

That said, allow me to try to push back on this a little. Besides the points that David G. and Dave mention, allow me to raise at least one more.

Compare the authors of the books that come up at Deseret Book under &quot;Scripture Reference&quot;: http://deseretbook.com/store/group/13 (or here&#039;s one specifically for the NT: http://deseretbook.com/store/browse/97 ) and &quot;General Authorities&quot;: http://deseretbook.com/store/browse/266

The genres are markedly different. It seems like the last GA to do anything that would fall under &quot;Scripture Reference&quot; would be BRM. Practically all of the &quot;Scripture Reference&quot; books are written by academics (although granted that some of them are not trained to deal with the texts). However, if you look at most of the early &quot;General Authority&quot; books, most of those listed are closer in genre to &quot;Scripture Reference&quot; (for instance &quot;Jesus the Christ&quot; and &quot;Lectures on Faith&quot;).

This is just one, perhaps minor, arguable point; but I think it does at least demonstrate a shift away from being &quot;reliable sources of information&quot; for certain kinds of (significant) bodies of knowledge which they formerly laid claim to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> I don’t see this shift at all. Admittedly, I am not dialed in to Mormon scholarship like the rest of you. </i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s part of the reason I raise this issue. It&#8217;s hard to tell how generalizable our experiences are. Has my circle simply changed over the years, or is this a much larger phenomenon?</p>
<p>That said, allow me to try to push back on this a little. Besides the points that David G. and Dave mention, allow me to raise at least one more.</p>
<p>Compare the authors of the books that come up at Deseret Book under &#8220;Scripture Reference&#8221;: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/store/group/13" rel="nofollow">http://deseretbook.com/store/group/13</a> (or here&#8217;s one specifically for the NT: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/store/browse/97" rel="nofollow">http://deseretbook.com/store/browse/97</a> ) and &#8220;General Authorities&#8221;: <a href="http://deseretbook.com/store/browse/266" rel="nofollow">http://deseretbook.com/store/browse/266</a></p>
<p>The genres are markedly different. It seems like the last GA to do anything that would fall under &#8220;Scripture Reference&#8221; would be BRM. Practically all of the &#8220;Scripture Reference&#8221; books are written by academics (although granted that some of them are not trained to deal with the texts). However, if you look at most of the early &#8220;General Authority&#8221; books, most of those listed are closer in genre to &#8220;Scripture Reference&#8221; (for instance &#8220;Jesus the Christ&#8221; and &#8220;Lectures on Faith&#8221;).</p>
<p>This is just one, perhaps minor, arguable point; but I think it does at least demonstrate a shift away from being &#8220;reliable sources of information&#8221; for certain kinds of (significant) bodies of knowledge which they formerly laid claim to.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark D.</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/02/multiple-authorities/#comment-6326</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 02:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t think there is any acknowledgment of &quot;multiple authorities&quot; on anything remotely doctrinal or theological. I think there has been subtle acknowledgment of the idea that people can benefit from studying non-official (and non GA-authored) doctrinal and theological works as long as they do not consider them authoritative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think there is any acknowledgment of &#8220;multiple authorities&#8221; on anything remotely doctrinal or theological. I think there has been subtle acknowledgment of the idea that people can benefit from studying non-official (and non GA-authored) doctrinal and theological works as long as they do not consider them authoritative.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianJ</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2009/02/multiple-authorities/#comment-6327</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=887#comment-6327</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see this shift at all. Admittedly, I am not dialed in to Mormon scholarship like the rest of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see this shift at all. Admittedly, I am not dialed in to Mormon scholarship like the rest of you.</p>
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