Everything You Knew About the Abortion Conversation is Wrong

Ever notice how people are skittish when the topic of abortion comes up?  It’s almost like conservatives hesitate to speak frankly about it, for fear of being labeled “extreme” or “fundamentalist.”  It’s as if someone wrote a “how to maintain your conservative principles and still be accepted in society” manual, which we all basically follow.  It goes something like this:

Realize that the person you are speaking to may have had an abortion.

Don’t speak too forcefully.

Don’t use the Bible to justify your position.

Yeah, it’s murder, but don’t be emotional about it.

Well, Carly Fiorina threw away that book last night.

David wrote his thoughts about Carly taking on Planned Parenthood over at National Review Online:

Last night, Carly Fiorina broke the convention. Yes, there were men on the stage who spoke with conviction and feeling about Planned Parenthood. Ted Cruz did particularly well in describing the videos — not presuming that everyone had seen them and taking the opportunity to describe their contents, in detail. Fiorina, however, made the discussion real — a pro-life woman speaking with the passion that so many pro-life women feel. She said this:

I dare Hillary Clinton [and] Barack Obama to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking, while someone says, “We have to keep it alive to harvest its brain.” This is about the character of our nation.

[…]

In three sentences, Fiorina not only brought to life the moral reality of abortion and the atrocities of Planned Parenthood. She also expressed the extreme frustration so many conservatives rightly feel in the face of Republican impotence. It is shameful indeed if the Republican party cannot even muster the will to force the president to declare his unconditional allegiance to abortion on demand, to taxpayer funding for the organization that murders millions.

Carly’s emotional yet grounded demand that liberals watch the undercover footage of Planned Parenthood selling baby parts was spot on.  David continues:

Last night, Carly Fiorina threw down the gauntlet. As a conservative woman, she defied the unofficial rules of the abortion debate and put the truth, including the emotional truth, directly in front of more than 20 million Americans, with various social-media shares likely accounting for millions more. This is what the Left fears most, and it will strike back hard and fast — indeed, it already is doing so — but the damage is done, and in attempting to rebut Fiorina, they are giving her more exposure.

Go, Carly, go!  So glad to see a pro-life woman taking the national stage and forcing the watching world to confront the truth about abortion!

You can read more of David’s thoughts here and watch what some are calling the best 35 seconds of last night’s debate:


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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • vortem

    Politicians don’t talk so forcefully about it because they know only about 25% want abortion illegal. That aside, Fiorina’s claim has already been debunked as are many of the things she said last night with such confidence. Good to know your facts. To some of us it does matter.

  • celtnik

    “Politicians don’t talk so forcefully about it because they know only about 25% want abortion illegal.”

    Horsesh!t. People don’t want to have to subsidize someone else’s behavior. My body my choice, until it comes time to pay for anything, like birth control or abortion, then it’s somebody else’s problem.

  • vortem

    Subsidize someone else’s behaviour? It seems you are unaware that federal funds cannot be spent on abortion. And as for birth control, contraception costs far less than pregnancy and birth so it’s a deal whether its funded by tax dollars for those on Medicaid or insurance dollars for everyone else. Ever wonder why insurance companies didnt fight the birth control issue in the ACA? They know it makes fiscal sense.

  • frgough

    Ah. Another fool making this argument. Every dollar PP gets in Federal Funding is a dollar they can move from the Payroll column of their ledger to the Abortion column.

    Don’t feed me this horse**** that federal funds don’t help pay for abortions.

  • vortem

    And no one can convince you otherwise. Gotcha

    I bet you believe those videos weren’t heavily edited either……

  • William Okc

    If you don’t have a problem with what the people are doing in those videos, there is something deeply wrong with you. Putting it on public display could be the first step to getting the help you need.

  • vortem

    The videos are heavily edited and misrepresented. I have no issue with abortion nor fetal tissue being used for research. I realize you do. But I do not share your beliefs.

  • celtnik

    You mean, no one can convince him to abandon the facts. I like how you use that work Gotcha, as if it absolves you of any responsibility to follow a logical train of thought or make an argument.

  • vortem

    There are no ” facts” that Planned Parenthood uses federal funds for abortions. Nor sells fetal tissue for profit. The investigations following the release if these heavily edited videos showed no wrongdoing. Perhaps you are unaware of this.

  • celtnik

    Who are you trying to convince, yourself? Because I know better, I mean it’s easily verifiable

    “Nor sells fetal tissue for profit. The investigations following the release if these heavily edited videos showed no wrongdoing. Perhaps you are unaware of this.”

    Yeah, and Frank Nitti’s investigation of Al Capone didn’t turn up anything either. And you have no idea that those videotapes are edited. The investigations are still ongoing and the federal level and at the state, so you can’t say conclusively that they haven’t found anything. Those videotapes clearly shows them picking through body parts to sell to biomedical companies in violation of federal law, and there is video of PP employees telling fellow employees how to not get caught by lying about what they are actually doing. Look, we know you’re a ghoul who believes that abortion and any other whim of the moocher looter class, like yourself should be subsidized by someone else. Just have the courage to admit it, hmmm? Because we both know that is what this is about.

  • vortem

    “Moocher looter” class? Interesting assumption but dead wrong. With our family income we subsidize others. And Im okay with that.

  • celtnik

    Which confirms the moocher looter class statement. Your family income? Was it voluntary? Then fine, let me keep more of my money and you can give away all you want.

  • celtnik

    BTW, the Center for Medical progress has hours and hours of unedited footage on it’s website. That’s unedited, so watch it first before you run your fat mouth about it being edited for content, because you have no idea.

  • vortem

    Actually even the ” unedited” full version has been outed fir it’s editing.

    And it still doesn’t depict what Carly Fiorina claims she saw.

  • celtnik

    “Subsidize someone else’s behaviour? It seems you are unaware that federal funds cannot be spent on abortion.”

    Well, that must be news to the federal government because that is what Planned Parenthood does funds abortion, They don’t give mammograms or any of that other bullsh!t, they use taxpayer money to fund abortion.

    “And as for birth control, contraception costs far less than pregnancy and birth so it’s a deal whether its funded by tax dollars for those on Medicaid or insurance dollars for everyone else. Ever wonder why insurance companies didnt fight the birth control issue in the ACA? They know it makes fiscal sense.”

    What? Ok, first you act stunned that taking taxpayer money to fund something someone should pay themselves is subsidizing someone else’s behavior, which it is. Then you go onto explain why it’s a good deal. It’s not. Nobody made the argument about the cost between raising a child and the cost of birth control you moron, we are asking for people to pay for their own birth control You can get birthcontrol for 9 bucks a month, without insurance. It costs more via insurance – which they are forced to provide under the ACA – than to buy it yourself without a copay after you process all the paperwork etc. They did fight it, they were forced to comply.

  • vortem

    Insurance companies fought it? Really? Do tell.

    And Planned Patenthoid does much more than abortions and cancer screening. . You seem to not understand what services they provide. Not do you seem to care to know. I understand why though.

  • celtnik

    I did tell you. And I do know what services they provide. Tell me, why do we have Obamacare? Wasn’t that supposed to be the cure all for America’s health care problems? Why do we need to have planned parenthood? Besides, you know it’s a lie. That 3% number they come up with is easily debunked.

    “According to Planned Parenthood’s own figures, they provide somewhere north of 320,000 abortions a year, that’s a third of all abortions performed in the United States. Again, according to their own numbers, a surgical abortion in the first trimester costs between $300 and $950.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/05/planned-parenthoods-great-big-enormous-3-lie/

    They don’t do mammograms either:

    “As recently as 2012, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has confirmed that no Planned Parenthood clinic is authorized to perform mammograms.”

    http://www.lifenews.com/2012/10/05/false-abortion-is-only-3-of-planned-parenthoods-services/

    Who doesn’t seem to care about facts now. Only a complete ghoul would defend these butchers.

  • vortem

    What ” 3%” number are you referring to?

    And that’s correct. They don’t do mammograms but they do breast exams and referrals for mammograms.

    And by ” do tell” I was looking for evidence to back up your claim that insurance companies fought having to covering birth control without copay. They didnt. Because the decrease in pregnancies and the resulting reduction in prenatal care and births and abortions reduces improved their bottom line. But hey, feel free to share any evidence you have to the contrary..

  • celtnik

    The 3% your side always trots out and the number of abortions performed, which is a lie. Where is your evidence? Like I said, you don’t need insurance to get contraception, 9$ a month at most places that sell it.

  • vortem

    You are misunderstanding the 3%. It’s not planned parenthood does 3 % of all abortions. It’s abortions represent 3% of the services provided by Planned Parenthood.

  • celtnik

    No, dummy they fudge the numbers to make it look like 3%, you didn’t read the information provided, or pretended it doesn’t exist. Nice try. This has been fun.

  • celtnik

    ““Pharmacy companies are businesses, and businesses – unlike the federal government – understand that the cost of providing any service has to be paid for by someone,” Dr. Samuel Gregg, research director at the Acton Institute, told LifeSiteNews.com. “In this instance, that means the costs of not-so-free contraception will either come out of the insurance companies’ profits (making them wonder why they have to provide this ‘free’ service), or the costs will be passed on to the policy-holders.”

    “Birth control pills don’t fall from the sky like manna,” economic writer Sheldon Richman told LifeSiteNews.com.

    Insurance industry consultant Robert Laszewski estimated insurances plans will “have to front about $360 per person who uses the birth control pill.”

    “I have never seen an example of the federal government telling a company they have to provide a service and they are not allowed to charge for it,” he wrote.

    The survey called into question the notion that women have limited access to contraceptives under the present insurance structure. All plans in the survey cover oral contraceptives, the contraceptive patch, ring, injections, and the IUD. Only one excluded the morning after pill.”

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pharmacists-no-contraceptives-will-not-pay-for-themselves

  • vortem

    So…. No actual evidence of insurance companies fighting the legislation. Just a bunch of stuff from Life Site News, a pro life, anti abortion, anti contraception website. No seriously, do you have any evidence to support your claim that insurance companies fought the legislation to cover birth control? Anything? .

  • celtnik

    Which evidence of which you have not provided. I showed you a website, with links to other research which proves my point. Again, you’re acting like it doesn’t exist. Goodnight, troll.

  • Fair Progressive

    I’m sorry for you if you know only that type of person.

  • celtnik

    I don’t need your sympathy, I need you to get your hand out of my back pocket. Understand?

  • https://www.facebook.com/TheAngryAmericans?ref=hl Angry Americans United

    Not interested in Carly and others telling her what to say, she has sold her soul just like Hillary and every other Politicians.. that try to win the W.H. with lies, deceit, fraud and back room deals.. Trump2016 cant be bought

  • LT Wong

    Angry and not too bright – great combination.

  • https://www.facebook.com/TheAngryAmericans?ref=hl Angry Americans United

    really, Carly sold Millions of electronics to Iran under Obama’s watch in 2010 and Obama protected her..5 years later there is a Iran Nuclear deal.. coincidence or supplying Terrorists? http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/16/carly-fiorina-hp-sold-millions-dollars-products-iran/

  • Fair Progressive

    Abclocal.go.com dated 9/7/2010 when Fiorina was running for Calif. senate. Printers were sold by a HP subsidiary & was a normal sale; unknown to whom the printers would go other than the legitimate biz that bought them. And was before Obama became Pres!! Not that who was president matters at all!!

    From another source;
    “While holding the company’s top job from 1999-2005, she oversaw a merger between HP and rival company Compaq that cut jobs. HP’s board later fired Fiorina in 2005.”

  • https://www.facebook.com/TheAngryAmericans?ref=hl Angry Americans United

    Senator Barbara Boxer 2 days ago, just called Carly out on twitter about the deal..so my guess is Carly knew all about it, as Boxer said it was Illegal

  • vortem

    Bernie Sanders can’t be bought. And he actually has given his life to politics and knows what he’s talking about. He’s not just some rich boy who got richer who thinks he knows what he doesn’t know.

  • celtnik

    You are right, he has given his life to politics, which means he hasn’t had a real job his entire life. Politics is the art of achieving something without merit. And he is rich, and he got that way by voting himself other people’s money while calling those who want to keep more of what they earned greedy. That’s why he can’t be bought, he takes. Idiots like you who rage against the rich are impotent, talentless and lazy. You have no idea what money is, how it’s created and what gives it worth. You’re also the greedy ones because you think that somehow you are entitled to someone else’s labor. Just like Bernie Sanders.

  • vortem

    Okay, so you’re anti government. Gotcha.

    As for ypur assumptions about me, you couldnt be more wrong. Our family is in the income bracket that would likely see our taxes raise a bit under Bernie Sanders. And I’m okay with that. Because I’m a different kind of person than you.

  • celtnik

    You are also a liar. Don’t give me that, I’m happy to pay more in taxes because you can already. You could also just give to a charity or volunteer your time yourself. And you are also just a troll jumping to the strawman that just because I opposed a large federal bureaucracy and useless lifetime politicians who have fed at the trough their whole life I’m anti-government. I do believe in the limited government espoused by the constitution and the founders didn’t believe in a permanent political class either.

  • vortem

    Im not lying at all, but you go on believing that. I actually have spent most of my life thus far living in another country ( before returning to the US ) that had higher taxes and more social programs and saw the great benefits of it for all. It’s funny how so many Americans are afraid of that.

  • celtnik

    You mean higher rates of inflation, more of their gdp spent on “social programs” that stagnate their rates of economic growth and higher unemployment. Those benefits?

  • JD

    Everything Bernie Sanders is was built on the backs of the poor people his atrocious policies have harmed.

  • vortem

    How have his policies harmed people? ( this should be good…..)

  • CSharee

    Voted NO on making it a crime to harm a fetus during another crime.

    Voted NO on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mother’s life.

    But those people don’t matter to the left, so it doesn’t matter if they have been harmed, right?

  • vortem

    No, those fetus and embryos are not ” people” to those that do not oppose abortion rights. We understand they are to you. And that’s okay.

    Your comment is incongruous to my question though.

  • William Okc

    You got your answer. True to liberal form, you simply ask the same question again in search of what you want to hear. You think you already know the answer, therefore anything that conflicts with that, in your twisted mind, is “false”.

  • vortem

    Perhaps you missed the actual question. It was asking JD what ” atricious” policies of Bernie Sanders’ had harmed poor people and given Sanders all he had?

  • Fair Progressive

    You have a vast knowledge deficit. Too hateful to do research, maybe?

  • darh477

    Right, he’s spent his entire life living off the taxpayers’ money. He’s a leech. The leech is the left’s symbol.

  • vortem

    Hmmm…. So you think politicians should work for free? How about others that “live off taxpayers money” like oh…. Teachers, police, firefighters, public librarians, DMV employees, military, etc?

  • rbaker62

    Right on! The truth hurts, does it?!!

  • Post American

    When is the last time you heard a PRO LIFE American support paid maternity leave? What about universal child care? Public PreK? What about expanding the social safety net like food stamps, housing, and welfare for these young leeches?

  • Fair Progressive

    EXACTLY! Are there compassionate Republicans?

  • Shaun Wilson

    So you believe the answer is to kill a child?

  • Post American

    No I believe that contraception, family planning, and sex education is preferable to either abortion or a lifetime of welfare benefits.

  • Fair Progressive

    The answer is, listen to the question.

  • frgough

    Right. Because the only way to care for someone is via a government program. Idiot.

  • Post American

    Does life end at birth, kids are pretty expensive.

  • William Okc

    Do you even know any PRO LIFE Americans? I do – they are busy giving their own money and their own time to places like pregnancy centers and churches who help people directly. When liberals start giving their own money directly – instead of pledging everybody else’s – to combat poverty, or when their poorly thought out, bloated, corrupt “social programs” actually stop perpetuating poverty and making it worse instead of really correcting it, then maybe I’ll take them seriously. Liberals’ other popular notion, killing babies to stop poverty, is not a serious option either.

  • Post American

    So if we get rid of all welfare programs, and ban contraception and abortion, that should work out great right, becuase Jesus?

  • William Okc

    You’re incoherent. Reality is apparently not your friend.

  • STEVE WELLS

    LIBERTARIAN VIEWS ARE THE RIGHT VIEWS – GOVERNMENT IS EVIL – CUT SPENDING AND LESS LAWS!!!

  • Brian

    Yeah, she lied about Planned Parenthood. How bold and daring of her. What a rogue she is.

  • vortem

    The only question is did she know she was lying or not

  • Brian

    Probably. She isn’t stupid. She knows full well that what she’s saying isn’t true, but she also knows that there are a lot of people who think it is true, and she wants them to vote for her.

  • vortem

    It appears you are right. She had been made aware now of the lie and continues to tell it.

  • Fair Progressive

    All politicians exaggerate or generalize or fabricate but always in their favor only. Coincidence?

  • Fair Progressive

    agreed. Trump did that yesterday at a rally. A questioner said “we all know” Obama is a Muslim & asked Trump what’s he going to do about all the Muslims here. Trump replied “we’ll be looking into those things ” then took another question. Whole event on CSPAN. Discussion about that was on CNN too

  • William Okc

    She summarized the videos accurately. You supporters of baby murder are the ones in denial.

  • Fair Progressive

    Well we all get to choose whose “facts” we believe.

  • Fair Progressive

    GOP Reps held hearing 9/7 or 9/7. No witnesses from PP nor from Medical Ctr that made the videos. Only pro-lifers. Why only hear one side of issue unless you don’t want to hear others? Improper & unfair.

  • vortem

    True. And that should read ” medical center ” because the Center for Medical Progress is simply a pro life group.

  • Fair Progressive

    Thanks. I couldn’t remember the stupid name!

  • frgough

    She didn’t lie. Planned Parenthood is running a baby chop shop. Some of those babies are still alive when harvested for parts. Your moral depravity is showing. You might want to do something about that.

    Because right now, you are the kind of person who would dismiss criticisms of the holocaust by claiming the showers didn’t look exactly the way they were described.

  • Fair Progressive

    Yikes. You sound like the all-knowing God – tho not the all-loving God

  • Richard White

    The “Pro-Life” movement is NOT PRO LIFE. It is more accurately the “Pro Fetus” movement. Within seconds of a child being born, the “Pro Fetus” people lose any interest in it.

    In fact, if that fetus is born and becomes a Black, Hispanic or Asian child – in the eyes of many in the Pro-Fetus movement, it immediately becomes a leech on society.

  • frgough

    Yet another fool who thinks a government program is the only way to care for someone.

  • Fair Progressive

    Silly you. No one I know uses a govt prgm for their OB/Gyn services. In fact, aren’t OB/GYNs all over the country in careers, with patients? I went to PP for Pap smears before, during, and after college. Plus bc pills at some point…..Then I got health insurance thru a job.
    And PLEASE remember, abortions are NOT paid for with govt. provided money. If their pt has money, the pt. pays for it.

  • jeansandjacketrequired

    The Pro-life, Pro-fetus movement has forgotten about the horrors of IVF embryos/babies being destroyed everyday.

  • vortem

    Caught in her lie ( or if you give her the benefit of the doubt, in being misinformed), she continues to tell it. There you have it.

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/fiorina-doubles-down-planned-parenthood-falsehood?cid=sm_fb_maddow

  • frgough

    Planned Parenthood is running a baby chop shop, and some of those babies are still alive when harvested, but because we don’t actually see the baby kicking on the table, we’re supposed to just dismiss the whole thing and pretend it’s not even happening.

    You are one sick and morally depraved excuse for a human being.

  • vortem

    She did not see what she said she saw. Period

  • William Okc

    So what? She summarized the videos you are desperate to ignore. Like saying the Jews at Auschwitz were gassed, not baked. It’s a distinction without relevance.

  • vortem

    Short version of William : ” Facts, who needs facts?!”

  • Fair Progressive

    Good for you for being so open minded about truth. Remember that when you hear Dem. candidates “summarize”.

  • Fair Progressive

    Is English your 2nd language? We aren’t “ignoring” the videos; “gassed” describes how liquid gas was poured thru a rooftop spout & disseminated (I don’t know how) into the space people stand in – I’ve seen the actual film footage, filmed by Germans, of course. “Distinction” and “relevance” are necessary for truth. But, you believe what you want, no matter the truth.

  • http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0301.marshall.html ave ngangel

    Well of course the anti-choice faction will lie. They bomb health centers, kill doctors, harass health care workers who have nothing to do with abortions. Why would they draw the line at lying?

  • Fair Progressive

    Good point.

  • vortem

    It was quite a performance but that’s all it was. No doubt a move to give her creds with the pro life minority, but I doubt it did anything but hurt her with the key women’s vote.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/09/16/watch_carly_fiorina_s_lurid_rant_about_abortion_and_planned_parenthood_at.html

  • jeansandjacketrequired

    In-Vitro Fertilization causes MORE abortions than Planned Parenthood ever did.
    1.7 million human embryos created for IVF have been “thrown away” according to a major British newspaper. Is destroying abandoned embryos ‘ethically acceptable’ for IVF? I don’t think so.

    Embryo Ethics: Does discarding unused embryos constitute murder? I think so.

    Pro-life Christians have made clear that embryo destruction is tantamount to abortion. Is Carly Fiorina talking about this?

    NO.

    All the impotent Conservative politicians will talk about is defunding Planned Parenthood. What about IVF clinics in the country that are responsible for the abortion/murder/destruction of SO MANY embryos.

    Carly won’t get my vote as a Pro-Life woman until she can respond to these issues. The Republican’s really do not care about saving all embryos/babies. They just want to defund Planned Parenthood. Meanwhile…. many embryos/babies are being destroyed at an alarming rate.

  • vortem

    Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Pregnancy does not begin until implantation had occurred. Therefore this is not abortion.