Comments on: Atheists in Foxholes

By: Andrew

Andrew — Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:28:35 +0000

I am an atheist in a foxhole (so to speak). I am writing this comment from a computer in Iraq. I am also a member of MAAF. I have been under fire and praying was the last thing on my mind.
The page on the MAAF site that lists the members is called “Atheists in Foxholes”. Maybe that is where the confusion came from.

By: bk

bk — Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:02:50 +0000

I wonder (well I don’t really) what Saunders would think if we took his article and flipped it on its head – replacing atheist with Christian and Christian with atheist. No doubt he would find offense, there is only one reason he can be so flip – he is in a majority group.

By: Richard Wade

Richard Wade — Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:44:59 +0000

Hey Bruce,
Your two cents were very helpful stuff. Thank you.

By: Bruce/Crablaw

Bruce/Crablaw — Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:38:31 +0000

I think it’s acceptable to go hard-nosed on a columnist but perhaps unwise to take such a hard tack at the human level with friends and acquaintances. Hemant alluded to this principle in another post today. Even with reporters, it may be better to assume stupidity than ill motive or intent to deceive. Maybe something like “I know it’s a cliche, and you probably meant well, but it’s actually false. It might sound like a petty issue whether there are any atheists in the foxholes, but has your paper reported on the run-around that Pat Tillman’s family is getting because they are not Christians? Are you up-to-date on the shocking facts of that case?” Thus forcing the reporter to admit ignorance, but on something that’s not his core competence so he doesn’t get hyper defensive.

Using colloquial English expressions like “Oh God” is no more evidence of worship than referring to the fifth day of the week as Th[o]r[']sday.

My two cents – best to all.

By: Nostromo

Nostromo — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 18:10:56 +0000

There is a story about comedian W.C. Fields, a renowned nonbeliever, being asked on his deathbed why he was reading the Bible.

“Just looking for loopholes,” he replied.

If I were an atheist, that’s what I’d be doing, too. You know, just to cover all the bases.

So, this guy writes his wish list to Santa every year, just in case, right?

By: King Aardvark

King Aardvark — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:46:31 +0000

I just reread the first article and I think I see where he was coming from. He sounds like a theist who believes the “no atheists in foxholes” to be true, but he’s also someone who doesn’t take the statement as a real argument against atheism. His “no atheists” in the article is referring to the exclamations “My God” etc that typically eminate from all of us regardless of whether we actually believe in God. The linkage between the first couple of paragraphs and the body shows this: he says “Nor was I the only person who cussed out loud when the president’s spokeswoman preceded him to the microphone and assured gun makers their livelihoods weren’t in danger.” In his mind, he’s merely talking about the exclamation, not the belief. That’s probably why he’s so incredulous at the level of outrage he received, too.

He should go reread the article and see why his first 4 sentences sound like an attack on atheists. The intro was completely unrelated to the rest of the column and really shows his casual disregard for atheists, intended or not.

Unless it was a ploy just to bait atheists while still trying to act innocent, trying to show atheists as uppity cry babies etc. Do you think I’m getting a little too ‘conspiracy theory’ here?

By: King Aardvark

King Aardvark — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:24:19 +0000

Ugh. This guy makes me sick. The atheist responders had a respectable level of outrage and he responded with belittling rudeness. I’m having a hard time stopping myself from writing a profanity-laced hatemail right now. I hope other people out there can complain more constructively than I can.

By: Susan

Susan — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:05:59 +0000

Ugh. If I hear one more person use that stupid cliche…

If I suddenly found myself in a foxhole I can assure you I wouldn’t be praying to God or converting to any religion. I’d be terrified out of my mind, certainly, but I wouldn’t be waiting and hoping for somebody else to save me (deity or human), I’d be attempting to figure out how to get myself out! And if I were there on purpose, I’d be doing my job to the best of my ability, and accepting the knowlege that I might not survive. What these people forget is that while it’s true that everyone feels fear, not everyone reacts to it in the same way.

By: Mriana

Mriana — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:40:45 +0000

Oh brother! *rolling eyes* and even if we did exclaim “Oh god!” it means nothing. It’s just an exclaimation of surprise, just as “Oh my goodness is”. Geeze! I think even Dawkins commented on this lame idea before. Any other time when used like curses (God!, Jesus Christ!, etc), it would tick a theist off big time and they’d be accusing the person of taking “the Lord’s” name in vain. Of course, so what do we care? It’s a catch-22. Theist either want to accuse us of cursing or praying when we use such words, when they are just words and mean nothing. Good grief!