Notice that Congress put Religion and Morality before knowledge.

Considering even Jefferson supported voluntary religion related services in public places (he even attended Church in the House of Representatives 2 days after the so-called separation letter… and was actually a regular attendant), objective voluntary courses about the bible should be constitutional.

On one occasion, Jefferson declared that religion is “deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support.”

George Washington, in October, 1789, declared, “it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.” The US wasn’t yet a year old.

So, voluntary religious or religion-related services, monuments, etc are completely justified.

I agree 100%, in fact we all are born that way, into sin, every one of us. You see, being gay is just a branch on the tree of sin. Some lie, some cheat, some are gay. Some lie and cheat on their gay partner but it is clear that fornication is an abomination.

Eliza asked: Could you please show me where in the Bible I can find the teachings by Jesus about how we should treat gays? ,

Jesus talked about in Matthew 15:19 “For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man”

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

but not mentioning to sex acts between women? It is quite clear that lesbianism is unnatural also Romans 1:26 ”For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:”

what do you make of the mention to effeminate men but not to any similar stereotype for women? Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Eliza asked: Dan, do you follow the other laws/rules in Leviticus? The dietary laws, the guidelines on animal sacrifice, and the rules about avoiding contact a woman during her “unclean” time?

God gave us those instructions because they are proper for us. He says to wash hands in running water not standing water, not because it is ritual, but healthy. We don’t eat pork because it is a filthy animal that rolls in and eats feces. We don’t eat shell fish because they are bottom dwellers and eat feces and very unclean. We are not to just throw away what we feel is not relevant anymore. That just muddies the waters. BTW: try, yes, no(shadow of Jesus),yes

Eliza said: Maybe I’ve missed something really important Yes you have.

In Luke 16 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Everything in the Old Testament was a shadow of Jesus. Blemish free lamb as sacrifice to “cover” sins = Jesus is perfect lamb of God to “forgive” sins. Abraham almost sacrificed his son on mountain. God sacrificed his son on same mountain. God created the universe in 6 days and then rested. Not because he was tired but because it was complete. Keep Sabbath holy (4th Commandment, shadow of Jesus) = Jesus is the Sabbath rest. God completes saving of mankind by Jesus and is our Sabbath’s rest now and we can rejoice.

“I’m really left in the dark about Christianity” Without Jesus Christ this is a true statement. I pray it isn’t true about you, Eliza. “that one is OK as we pick and choose” we are NOT to do this.

For Him,
Dan

What do you make of the Bible referring specifically to sex acts between men as “abomination” (in Leviticus) but not mentioning to sex acts between women? Is homosexuality a sin in men, but permissible in women? And, what do you make of the mention (depending on the translation) to effeminate men (in Romans) but not to any similar stereotype for women? Are homosexual men being warned to avoid conforming to stereotype?

But more important than those questions is this: Could you please show me where in the Bible I can find the teachings by Jesus about how we should treat gays? Especially useful would be any indication by Jesus that gays should be shunned, feared, reviled, and/or convinced to change their sexual orientation. I’ve looked, but I haven’t been able to find that teaching. Maybe I’ve missed something really important…but I’ve only managed to find the parts about how Jesus loved and accepted people, & taught that we should do the same.

Interestingly, there’s mention several times in the NT of men who were close to Jesus in a way we now might find questionable, though of course customs were different at the time, and Jesus clearly loved and accepted people without discrimination, sharing all he had with anyone in need. Examples of his closeness with other men:

Jesus wept at the tomb of his friend Lazarus (John 11:11, 11:35)

There was one particular disciple Jesus loved most; that disciple leaned on Jesus’s chest at supper (John 21:20).

Among those with Jesus at Gethsemane, there was a young man who wore nothing but a linen cloth (Mark 14:51).

I’m really left in the dark about Christ-ianity sometimes seems so certain that homosexuality is the abomination that Leviticus indicates. Along with eating shellfish – oh, woops, forgot, that one is OK as we pick and choose from Leviticus.

FROM THAT LINK: “the bill would prohibit teachers from saying that homosexual orientation is immoral or wrong,”

Yeah. So what? Do you want teachers to bring their personal or religious prejudices into the classroom?

It’s inappropriate, and it shouldn’t happen. Just as it would be inappropriate for an anti-semetic teacher to get up in front of class and demean Jews, or a racist teacher to get up and use slurs against racial minorities.

Funny stuff. Just goes to show their interest is purely in undermining the Constitution.

Murder is immoral and wrong;

Rape is immoral and wrong;

Theft is immoral and wrong;

Fraud is immoral and wrong;

Arson is immoral and wrong;

Bribery is immoral and wrong;

Wife-beating (or husband-beating) is immoral and wrong;

Assault and battery of someone because of how they were born is immoral and wrong;

Slandering someone because of how they were born is immoral and wrong;

Alienating someone because of how they were born is immoral and wrong.

With me so far?

Why are these actions all immoral and wrong? Because they involve harming someone else without just cause.

It is highly likely that homosexuals were born that way. What is your beef with them? What is your just cause to harm them?

All they want is to be treated like everyone else–to be left alone. Leave them the fuck alone!

P.S. Your God is a fiction and so are his opinions of homosexuals.

Dan, take a deep breath. Chill. The whole world isn’t out to get you.

I thought they couldn’t pass laws based on religion; yes secular humanism is a religion. How does God feel about this subject? Http://tinyurl.com/38998n

God help us all

Needless to say my daughter gets home schooled and she exceeds all others in ingenuity.

Will … Not … Comment …

Here in California they passed a law that all public school kids as low as first grade will be taught homosexual history (indoctrination)

Oh good grief! (rolling my eyes) SB 1437 simply added sexual orientation to existing California law that “prohibits instruction or school-sponsored activities that reflect adversely on people because of their race, sex, color, creed, handicap, national origin or ancestry.”

Yes, the bill would have prohibited sexual-orientation discrimination in educational materials, just as racial and other forms of discrimination are currently prohibited. GASP!

But for the rabid religious groups (yes, they are here in California too!), not discriminating against gay people is apparently too much to ask. They prefer to close their eyes when it comes to (straight and gay) kids that get bullied in school because of perceptions that they are gay, not to mention the unfortunate suicide rates of gay youth.

And by the way, in case you didn’t hear, Schwarzenegger vetoed the bill last fall.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/homlawca.htm