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(cue me being completely negative about humanity) I don’t think its possible to ever reach a compromise between the “abortion on demand” and “abortion is evil” camps. One of my main reasons for believing so is the existence of people who are willing to believe that, somehow, abortion on demand is ok for them but evil for everyone else.

You probably have history on your side. In contentious issues like slavery, one side has usually solidly won in the past. But abortion is a more complicated issue. Saying that a few undifferentiated cells are a human being one second after conception is absurd, but saying that a baby becomes a human one second after birth while a fetus one second before birth is not a human is arguably just as absurd.

Keep in mind that I said it was something we needed to do–not something easy to do. For example, there are parts of South America where it’s illegal to abort a fetus which is already dead (which is sometimes necessary for the mother’s health). It’s a small start, but we’ve really got to do something about that level of stupidity. People who think that the ‘life’ of a dead fetus outweighs that of the mother are, well, really going to have to be marginalized in the debate, if we can’t convince them of their foolishness. Otherwise we’ll get nowhere. Of course, the ultra-pro-lifers would like to marginalize everyone but themselves, so that’s going to be easier said that done.

Weird events like this are part of the reason why I’m for abortion on demand. If a couple seriously cannot afford to raise any more children, or just plain don’t want to, and they go through a (moderately or fairly) expensive surgery to prevent this, but still pregnancy occurs… I just can’t see how it’s a good thing to make a woman carry around a child without any choice in the matter. Making women have no choices just seems so 18th century.

Note also that such abortions usually occur fairly early on, at a time when it’s quite difficult to make an opposing argument based on life, humanity, or suffering. Most of the opposition to this is going to come from the absolutists that are opposed to such pregnancy-prevention surgeries in the first place.

I didn’t know that even a vasectomy isn’t 100% effective.

That’s why I put the word supposedly in there, but stranger things have happened.

I just can’t see how it’s a good thing to make a woman carry around a child without any choice in the matter. Making women have no choices just seems so 18th century.

I agree 100%. Every woman should have a choice, esp if her health and/or life is involved.

I think we’re eventually going to have to reach a compromise on this issue, and people like that are going to be the biggest hinderance in this.

(cue me being completely negative about humanity) I don’t think its possible to ever reach a compromise between the “abortion on demand” and “abortion is evil” camps. One of my main reasons for believing so is the existence of people who are willing to believe that, somehow, abortion on demand is ok for them but evil for everyone else. The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion is one of the better resources I’ve read to see that seemingly insane worldview.

Mind you, these are women who have an abortion but continue thinking that abortion is wrong, that all women who have abortions are evil hussies, etc. etc. That amount of self-loathing for women’s / reproductive rights pales in comparison to guys who think abortion is a threat to the patriarchy. If someone really fervently believes that the lives of fetuses are more important than the lives of their mothers, then the best compromise possible might be an agreement that they won’t bomb any abortion clinics.

mriana:

Tubal ligation or vasectomy is not 100% effective either. There have been some strange case where one or the other had the surgery and the woman still ended up pregnant.

And this even happens in our closest living relatives. Weird events like this are part of the reason why I’m for abortion on demand. If a couple seriously cannot afford to raise any more children, or just plain don’t want to, and they go through a (moderately or fairly) expensive surgery to prevent this, but still pregnancy occurs… I just can’t see how it’s a good thing to make a woman carry around a child without any choice in the matter. Making women have no choices just seems so 18th century.

Supposedly the surgery undid itself.

I’ve heard that God works in mysterious ways…

Unfortunately, the only thing that is 100% effective against pregnancy is abstanance. However, you can’t ask a husband and wife, for example, to go without sex, but at the same time they should not be forced to have more children than they can afford- financially, physically, etc. Thus birthcontrol is a necessity- even in marriage.

Tubal ligation or vasectomy is not 100% effective either. There have been some strange case where one or the other had the surgery and the woman still ended up pregnant. Supposedly the surgery undid itself.

I’ll take that back. I only saw three books that only mention Spinzoa- at least one dealing with JWs. Let me look around for you, Maria.

Thank you so very much Mriana

Since, seriously, anyone who is against abortions and also against sex ed and contraception is wearing their opinion pretty heavily: sex is naughty, wrong, and those who dabble in it should be punished. As a human and as an atheist, I want absolutely nothing to do with that kind of repressive worldview.

Agreed! You’d think they’d be all for contraception b/c it prevents abortion……..I don’t get it……

Since, seriously, anyone who is against abortions and also against sex ed and contraception is wearing their opinion pretty heavily: sex is naughty, wrong, and those who dabble in it should be punished. As a human and as an atheist, I want absolutely nothing to do with that kind of repressive worldview.

This is the black/white view I was talking about. Couldn’t have said it better. And let’s not forget that this is the faction that’s against the HPV-vaccine too, so their level of nuttiness is off the charts. I think we’re eventually going to have to reach a compromise on this issue, and people like that are going to be the biggest hinderance in this.

Unfortunately, most of our current attempts at ‘compromise’ (banning IDX, waiting periods/counseling, etc.) just plain suck.