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	<title>Comments on: Michael Behe&#8217;s Book, as Reviewed by Richard Dawkins</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: cautious</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50416</link>
		<dc:creator>cautious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50416</guid>
		<description>A wikified version of the news is &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillermo_Gonzalez_(astronomer)#Tenure_Controversy&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; (and I have to apologize for mispelling his last name in my post, oops).

 Yeah, the entire controversy does seem to me to be a bit of professional (probably unintended) martyrism on the part of Gonzalez.  That this somehow hasn&#039;t become a larger political storm is somewhat odd.  The Discovery Institute is not strapped for cash, they could be making this a bigger story than it is.  But nothing has (seemingly) happened in over 2 weeks.  And I just skimmed through &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/06/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this dreck&lt;/a&gt; to try to see if anything new had happened, looks like no.

Well, for now the ID people seem very firm in their belief that being denied tenure because a person publishes ID books is a bad thing.  For that reason alone I&#039;m not willing to think it&#039;s a bad thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A wikified version of the news is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillermo_Gonzalez_(astronomer)#Tenure_Controversy" rel="nofollow">here</a> (and I have to apologize for mispelling his last name in my post, oops).</p>
<p> Yeah, the entire controversy does seem to me to be a bit of professional (probably unintended) martyrism on the part of Gonzalez.  That this somehow hasn&#8217;t become a larger political storm is somewhat odd.  The Discovery Institute is not strapped for cash, they could be making this a bigger story than it is.  But nothing has (seemingly) happened in over 2 weeks.  And I just skimmed through <a href="http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/06/" rel="nofollow">this dreck</a> to try to see if anything new had happened, looks like no.</p>
<p>Well, for now the ID people seem very firm in their belief that being denied tenure because a person publishes ID books is a bad thing.  For that reason alone I&#8217;m not willing to think it&#8217;s a bad thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Miko</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50404</link>
		<dc:creator>Miko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 00:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50404</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Recently this guy, Guillermo Gonzales, was denied tenure at Iowa State University. Of course the team responsible for reviewing his professional life had to deal with his part in the ID literary world, and might have given him a lot less decent chance at a happy academic future because of his beliefs.

I don’t know how to feel about this, seriously.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Although the reasons for his denial of tenure are confidential (as in, the university won&#039;t reveal them: he personally could choose to do so; the fact that AFAIK he hasn&#039;t suggests that the reasons don&#039;t actually have to do with his ID nonsense), the ID thing is definitely a worthwhile reason to deny him tenure.  He treats it as science, not literature, and he was using his credibility of the university to &#039;back up&#039; his claims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Recently this guy, Guillermo Gonzales, was denied tenure at Iowa State University. Of course the team responsible for reviewing his professional life had to deal with his part in the ID literary world, and might have given him a lot less decent chance at a happy academic future because of his beliefs.</p>
<p>I don’t know how to feel about this, seriously.</p></blockquote>
<p>Although the reasons for his denial of tenure are confidential (as in, the university won&#8217;t reveal them: he personally could choose to do so; the fact that AFAIK he hasn&#8217;t suggests that the reasons don&#8217;t actually have to do with his ID nonsense), the ID thing is definitely a worthwhile reason to deny him tenure.  He treats it as science, not literature, and he was using his credibility of the university to &#8216;back up&#8217; his claims.</p>
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		<title>By: cautious</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50395</link>
		<dc:creator>cautious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 22:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50395</guid>
		<description>This review is positively delightful, although it does stray a bit into commenting on Behe&#039;s (hilarious) courtroom appearances and the whole &quot;being an embarassment to the department he is part of&quot;.  

Oh wait I just commented on them too.  It&#039;s hard not to, because the entire discussion of ID v science is based on the idea of rejecting various amounts of scientific consensus.  Science can be extremely intolerant of people who push forward what might be brilliant ideas, but who can&#039;t for the life of them present evidence in favor of these ideas.  This is because science is about not just thinking up brilliant ideas, but also busting your arse and doing research to support your ideas with evidence and facts.  The ID movement has been, and seems like it will remain, more interested in trying to disprove its opposition than to prove its own worth.  

Recently this guy, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&amp;id=4064&amp;program=DI%20Main%20Page%20-%20News&amp;callingPage=discoMainPage&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Guillermo Gonzales&lt;/a&gt;, was denied tenure at Iowa State University.  Of course the team responsible for reviewing his professional life had to deal with his part in the ID literary world, and might have given him a lot less decent chance at a happy academic future because of his beliefs.

I don&#039;t know how to feel about this, seriously.  On one hand, I think that scientists should be judged on the science they do, not on the opinions they have.  This is why it bothers me when scientists in the political consulting world have to worry about losing their jobs if they say the wrong facts.  

On the other hand, ID scientists actively want to redefine and restructure all of science.  This is why having a guy who thinks of the Geneva Conventions as quaint run the Justice Department seems like a bad idea to me.  (ok I know Alberto Gonzales is not related to this topic, but an attorney general who hates the law seems like a very good analogy to an ID scientists)

...it&#039;s confusing, which must be the reason why evolutionary scientists would much rather deal with creationist kooks than scientists who don&#039;t want to keep their religion out of the lab.  Ken Ham is funny because he&#039;s an idiot, Behe/Gonzales/Dembski are sad because their research, regardless of how good it is, will always be poisoned by their opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This review is positively delightful, although it does stray a bit into commenting on Behe&#8217;s (hilarious) courtroom appearances and the whole &#8220;being an embarassment to the department he is part of&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Oh wait I just commented on them too.  It&#8217;s hard not to, because the entire discussion of ID v science is based on the idea of rejecting various amounts of scientific consensus.  Science can be extremely intolerant of people who push forward what might be brilliant ideas, but who can&#8217;t for the life of them present evidence in favor of these ideas.  This is because science is about not just thinking up brilliant ideas, but also busting your arse and doing research to support your ideas with evidence and facts.  The ID movement has been, and seems like it will remain, more interested in trying to disprove its opposition than to prove its own worth.  </p>
<p>Recently this guy, <a href="http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&amp;id=4064&amp;program=DI%20Main%20Page%20-%20News&amp;callingPage=discoMainPage" rel="nofollow">Guillermo Gonzales</a>, was denied tenure at Iowa State University.  Of course the team responsible for reviewing his professional life had to deal with his part in the ID literary world, and might have given him a lot less decent chance at a happy academic future because of his beliefs.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how to feel about this, seriously.  On one hand, I think that scientists should be judged on the science they do, not on the opinions they have.  This is why it bothers me when scientists in the political consulting world have to worry about losing their jobs if they say the wrong facts.  </p>
<p>On the other hand, ID scientists actively want to redefine and restructure all of science.  This is why having a guy who thinks of the Geneva Conventions as quaint run the Justice Department seems like a bad idea to me.  (ok I know Alberto Gonzales is not related to this topic, but an attorney general who hates the law seems like a very good analogy to an ID scientists)</p>
<p>&#8230;it&#8217;s confusing, which must be the reason why evolutionary scientists would much rather deal with creationist kooks than scientists who don&#8217;t want to keep their religion out of the lab.  Ken Ham is funny because he&#8217;s an idiot, Behe/Gonzales/Dembski are sad because their research, regardless of how good it is, will always be poisoned by their opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: godma</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50022</link>
		<dc:creator>godma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 22:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50022</guid>
		<description>Gadren wrote: &quot;Didn’t Behe write up the section about Dawkins for Time’s list of Influential People?&quot;

Yes, that&#039;s right.  
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/time100/article/0,28804,1595326_1595329_1616137,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is the published (excerpted) version.

and the original is posted &lt;a href=&quot;http://evolutionspace.wordpress.com/2007/05/04/behe-writes-richard-dawkins-on-100-most-influential-people-of-the-year-of-time-magazine/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

I wonder what the story is behind that and this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gadren wrote: &#8220;Didn’t Behe write up the section about Dawkins for Time’s list of Influential People?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, that&#8217;s right.<br />
<a href="http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/time100/article/0,28804,1595326_1595329_1616137,00.html" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is the published (excerpted) version.</p>
<p>and the original is posted <a href="http://evolutionspace.wordpress.com/2007/05/04/behe-writes-richard-dawkins-on-100-most-influential-people-of-the-year-of-time-magazine/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>I wonder what the story is behind that and this.</p>
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		<title>By: Siamang</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50018</link>
		<dc:creator>Siamang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 21:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50018</guid>
		<description>Behe vs. Dawkins.  Oh man.  Poor Dawkins, having to read Behe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Behe vs. Dawkins.  Oh man.  Poor Dawkins, having to read Behe.</p>
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		<title>By: Siamang</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50017</link>
		<dc:creator>Siamang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 21:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50017</guid>
		<description>Behe vs. Dawkins.  Oh man.  Poor Dawkins, having to read Behe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Behe vs. Dawkins.  Oh man.  Poor Dawkins, having to read Behe.</p>
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		<title>By: Gadren</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50016</link>
		<dc:creator>Gadren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 21:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/06/29/michael-behes-book-as-reviewed-by-richard-dawkins/#comment-50016</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t Behe write up the section about Dawkins for Time&#039;s list of Influential People?  He&#039;s just getting his just desserts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t Behe write up the section about Dawkins for Time&#8217;s list of Influential People?  He&#8217;s just getting his just desserts.</p>
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