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	<title>Comments on: Australian Asks: Why Don&#8217;t Atheists Get Elected in America?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: olvlzl, no ism, no ist</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-61100</link>
		<dc:creator>olvlzl, no ism, no ist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-61100</guid>
		<description>ash, I&#039;m saying that most people aren&#039;t particularly interested in the culture(s) of atheism - including lots of atheists I will throw in, Jonathan Miller speaks for more than himself.   As I&#039;ve pointed out many times about several different efforts the most loudmouthed and obnoxious tend to grab the microphone and dominate the discussion.  When it is politically advantageous to the entrenched establishment, that obnoxious presence will become the face of that group.  More moderate and sensible voices will be ignored by both sides. 

Personally, I judge people as individuals, atheists (my dearest brother is an atheist) and religious.  However, it is not uncommon for people to group people into stereotypes which, while unrealistic, are easier to think about and easier to dismiss.  I suspect that an effective percentage of the large majority of American voters, who are religious believers, are prone to doing this.  Since Dawkins and his would be T. Huxley, Dennett, have made themselves the public face of atheism in the English speaking world, his excesses,  insulting the majority for absolutely no good reason, except perhaps his own ignorance,  are something you are going to have to deal with.

Dembski is a supporter of pseudo-science, however, he&#039;s no dope as far as politics is concerned.  He doesn&#039;t have to win the scientific argument to prevail politically.   All he has to do is get enough Supreme Court Justices to agree with his position and if Bush gets another, or some other Republican who panders to the religious right does, he wins.  Dawkins and the impractical atheists who would rather insult religious believers than make common cause with those who support science (as Michael Ruse suggests) are handing the IDers a gift it isn&#039;t necessary to give them.  Dawkins views aren&#039;t the issue, his actions are and his actions are the sign of an immature and a selfish and foolish man.  That is if science is his main value, something for which I see very little practical evidence.   He&#039;s a publicity hound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ash, I&#8217;m saying that most people aren&#8217;t particularly interested in the culture(s) of atheism &#8211; including lots of atheists I will throw in, Jonathan Miller speaks for more than himself.   As I&#8217;ve pointed out many times about several different efforts the most loudmouthed and obnoxious tend to grab the microphone and dominate the discussion.  When it is politically advantageous to the entrenched establishment, that obnoxious presence will become the face of that group.  More moderate and sensible voices will be ignored by both sides. </p>
<p>Personally, I judge people as individuals, atheists (my dearest brother is an atheist) and religious.  However, it is not uncommon for people to group people into stereotypes which, while unrealistic, are easier to think about and easier to dismiss.  I suspect that an effective percentage of the large majority of American voters, who are religious believers, are prone to doing this.  Since Dawkins and his would be T. Huxley, Dennett, have made themselves the public face of atheism in the English speaking world, his excesses,  insulting the majority for absolutely no good reason, except perhaps his own ignorance,  are something you are going to have to deal with.</p>
<p>Dembski is a supporter of pseudo-science, however, he&#8217;s no dope as far as politics is concerned.  He doesn&#8217;t have to win the scientific argument to prevail politically.   All he has to do is get enough Supreme Court Justices to agree with his position and if Bush gets another, or some other Republican who panders to the religious right does, he wins.  Dawkins and the impractical atheists who would rather insult religious believers than make common cause with those who support science (as Michael Ruse suggests) are handing the IDers a gift it isn&#8217;t necessary to give them.  Dawkins views aren&#8217;t the issue, his actions are and his actions are the sign of an immature and a selfish and foolish man.  That is if science is his main value, something for which I see very little practical evidence.   He&#8217;s a publicity hound.</p>
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		<title>By: ash</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-61083</link>
		<dc:creator>ash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-61083</guid>
		<description>olvlzl, i don&#039;t understand...are you suggesting that the majority of (american)theists, especially christians, are stupid, knee-jerk and immensly gullible? it appears that you&#039;re saying that the american public will judge all atheists on the examples of a couple of high profile atheists (kinda like judging all theists on the examples of jerks like falwell), a view you seem to support by using the words of Dembski. interesting, seeing as Dembski has been accused of psuedo-science and commenting outside his fields by other members of the scientific community...i thought this was an argument for why Dawkin&#039;s views could not be held as entirely valid?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>olvlzl, i don&#8217;t understand&#8230;are you suggesting that the majority of (american)theists, especially christians, are stupid, knee-jerk and immensly gullible? it appears that you&#8217;re saying that the american public will judge all atheists on the examples of a couple of high profile atheists (kinda like judging all theists on the examples of jerks like falwell), a view you seem to support by using the words of Dembski. interesting, seeing as Dembski has been accused of psuedo-science and commenting outside his fields by other members of the scientific community&#8230;i thought this was an argument for why Dawkin&#8217;s views could not be held as entirely valid?</p>
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		<title>By: olvlzl, no ism, no ist</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-61054</link>
		<dc:creator>olvlzl, no ism, no ist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-61054</guid>
		<description>Why don&#039;t atheists get elected?  Who knows but the ones who act like jerks don&#039;t do anything to make atheists electable.  

Maybe it&#039;s like what Michael Ruse said about Dawkins and Dennett, they&#039;re the best thing that has happened to the ID promoters in years. I believe William Dembski has thanked them for their help by being such idiots.  Dawkins understanding of American politics alone could win the case for anti-evolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t atheists get elected?  Who knows but the ones who act like jerks don&#8217;t do anything to make atheists electable.  </p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s like what Michael Ruse said about Dawkins and Dennett, they&#8217;re the best thing that has happened to the ID promoters in years. I believe William Dembski has thanked them for their help by being such idiots.  Dawkins understanding of American politics alone could win the case for anti-evolution.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-60970</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 06:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-60970</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe you&#039;re digging up Australian news before &lt;b&gt;I&#039;ve&lt;/b&gt; read it - I should really keep a closer eye on our own papers! ;)

I think most Australians (atheists, or otherwise) would agree with your point &quot;I don’t think most atheists mind if a Christian gets elected. As long as Christianity isn’t used as the sole basis for the person’s decisions.&quot; - I believe our current PM (John Howard) is, in fact, a Christian - but as the article suggests, for most Australians, we simply don&#039;t care.

I suppose if we (accidentally?) elected a leader who &lt;i&gt;did&lt;/i&gt; base all their decisions on the religious views, we&#039;d probably start to take notice. I think that&#039;s a lot less likely here, though, because we all &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; to vote - you&#039;ve got a lot more people to convince if you want to win office!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe you&#8217;re digging up Australian news before <b>I&#8217;ve</b> read it &#8211; I should really keep a closer eye on our own papers! <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I think most Australians (atheists, or otherwise) would agree with your point &#8220;I don’t think most atheists mind if a Christian gets elected. As long as Christianity isn’t used as the sole basis for the person’s decisions.&#8221; &#8211; I believe our current PM (John Howard) is, in fact, a Christian &#8211; but as the article suggests, for most Australians, we simply don&#8217;t care.</p>
<p>I suppose if we (accidentally?) elected a leader who <i>did</i> base all their decisions on the religious views, we&#8217;d probably start to take notice. I think that&#8217;s a lot less likely here, though, because we all <i>have</i> to vote &#8211; you&#8217;ve got a lot more people to convince if you want to win office!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt L</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-60950</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 03:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-60950</guid>
		<description>Not surprising those comments would come from Australia. That nation is actually a very tough mission field in that they started with a very bad taste in their mouth about Christianity and it&#039;s continued to this day. Unfortunately their bad experience had nothing to do with Christ letting them down - just people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not surprising those comments would come from Australia. That nation is actually a very tough mission field in that they started with a very bad taste in their mouth about Christianity and it&#8217;s continued to this day. Unfortunately their bad experience had nothing to do with Christ letting them down &#8211; just people.</p>
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		<title>By: PrimateIR</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-60639</link>
		<dc:creator>PrimateIR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 21:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/10/australian-asks-why-dont-atheists-get-elected-in-america/#comment-60639</guid>
		<description>Prior to this administration I would have said that it didn&#039;t matter to me that much.  Now....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prior to this administration I would have said that it didn&#8217;t matter to me that much.  Now&#8230;.</p>
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