Comments on: Government to Use Clergy to Stop the Madness http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/ by Hemant Mehta Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:51:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Maria http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62818 Maria Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:58:31 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62818 great, just what we need in a time of crisis, the government pushing stuff more stuff on people...... great, just what we need in a time of crisis, the government pushing stuff more stuff on people……

]]> By: athenebelle http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62531 athenebelle Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:03:38 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62531 Greta Christina, I think you may have misunderstood what I wrote (only partially). I do not remember ever seeing pastors or minister acting as counselors because they were hired or taken on by the government. Most of the time they are acting in situations like chaplain care or social work situations. Sometimes they are hired by businesses to act as a business chaplain but rarely do they talk in biblical tones (i.e. proselytizing). <blockquote>How exactly is this not the government establishing a religion?</blockquote> It is, and is totally against the law (and against what many in my particular denomination believe in: separation of church and state that is). Greta Christina, I think you may have misunderstood what I wrote (only partially). I do not remember ever seeing pastors or minister acting as counselors because they were hired or taken on by the government. Most of the time they are acting in situations like chaplain care or social work situations. Sometimes they are hired by businesses to act as a business chaplain but rarely do they talk in biblical tones (i.e. proselytizing).

How exactly is this not the government establishing a religion?

It is, and is totally against the law (and against what many in my particular denomination believe in: separation of church and state that is).

]]> By: Greta Christina http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62511 Greta Christina Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:26:26 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62511 How exactly is this not the government establishing a religion? And athenebelle, if the government wants to provide counselors in a time of panic, they should provide counselors. Not people who think that "the government’s established by the Lord." See above, re: government establishing a religion. How exactly is this not the government establishing a religion?

And athenebelle, if the government wants to provide counselors in a time of panic, they should provide counselors. Not people who think that “the government’s established by the Lord.” See above, re: government establishing a religion.

]]> By: athenebelle http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62446 athenebelle Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:14:42 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62446 I've realized that i totally mis-understood your post. I'll leave the original up below but I think that there will be many more churches (like my own) that would prefer to go underground in this instance than try to help subvert democratic society. I seriously doubt that it will ever come to that but I could see it happening. Actually I've already heard of pastors and ministers who act as counselors. Many times they didn't come from a psychology or social work background but they are given training in seminary (or at least most of the ones that I know of do, there might be some where it's only an elective) which helps them to sit and actively listen (which is what many psychologists generally already do: unless I mis-understand psychologists). In many of those instances they try and put aside their evangelical streak to just listen and be supportive, I've heard of cases where if they do pray over an atheist (where the prayer has to do with the situation, NOT the fact that individual is an atheist), that individual takes it as "this person thinks enough of me to try and help me in their own way (even if it doesn't physically help it sometimes helps emotionally)" which is another way prayer can be taken. I’ve realized that i totally mis-understood your post. I’ll leave the original up below but I think that there will be many more churches (like my own) that would prefer to go underground in this instance than try to help subvert democratic society. I seriously doubt that it will ever come to that but I could see it happening.

Actually I’ve already heard of pastors and ministers who act as counselors. Many times they didn’t come from a psychology or social work background but they are given training in seminary (or at least most of the ones that I know of do, there might be some where it’s only an elective) which helps them to sit and actively listen (which is what many psychologists generally already do: unless I mis-understand psychologists). In many of those instances they try and put aside their evangelical streak to just listen and be supportive, I’ve heard of cases where if they do pray over an atheist (where the prayer has to do with the situation, NOT the fact that individual is an atheist), that individual takes it as “this person thinks enough of me to try and help me in their own way (even if it doesn’t physically help it sometimes helps emotionally)” which is another way prayer can be taken.

]]> By: BlackSun http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62395 BlackSun Sat, 18 Aug 2007 09:19:02 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62395 Think the Patriot Act is bad? I've considered this scenario quite a bit. Two things are virtually guaranteed in a post-nuclear-attack America (aside from the millions of deaths, starvation, and economic ruin): 1) In addition to martial law; which includes censorship, universal surveillance and suspension of civil liberties and habeas corpus, the added controls of domestic passports (biometrics or chip implants) and checkpoints. 2) People with the shit scared out of them flocking to religion in droves. Religion has always thrived in a climate of extreme fear. It's the worst modern nightmare imaginable. Don't think it could happen? Sleep well. Think the Patriot Act is bad? I’ve considered this scenario quite a bit. Two things are virtually guaranteed in a post-nuclear-attack America (aside from the millions of deaths, starvation, and economic ruin):

1) In addition to martial law; which includes censorship, universal surveillance and suspension of civil liberties and habeas corpus, the added controls of domestic passports (biometrics or chip implants) and checkpoints.
2) People with the shit scared out of them flocking to religion in droves.

Religion has always thrived in a climate of extreme fear. It’s the worst modern nightmare imaginable. Don’t think it could happen? Sleep well.

]]> By: gamb http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62380 gamb Sat, 18 Aug 2007 07:45:46 +0000 http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/08/18/government-to-use-clergy-to-stop-the-madness/#comment-62380 So once we're attacked by people who (most likely) want (their) church and State fused, we will counter by fusing church and State. Of course, people who don't listen to clergy on principle will be labeled terrorists by default and preemptive measures will be taken. So once we’re attacked by people who (most likely) want (their) church and State fused, we will counter by fusing church and State. Of course, people who don’t listen to clergy on principle will be labeled terrorists by default and preemptive measures will be taken.

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