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	<title>Comments on: Daniel Dennett on Secretly-Atheist Religious Leaders</title>
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	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: Gazza</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-496318</link>
		<dc:creator>Gazza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jun 2010 10:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-496318</guid>
		<description>Whether MT was an atheist is secondary to the disgraceful behaivour Hitchens acuses her of.  If his accusations are true she deserves to be remebered for what she really was... a heartless politician.

The God question as we all know is irelevent to morality

G</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether MT was an atheist is secondary to the disgraceful behaivour Hitchens acuses her of.  If his accusations are true she deserves to be remebered for what she really was&#8230; a heartless politician.</p>
<p>The God question as we all know is irelevent to morality</p>
<p>G</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-67228</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-67228</guid>
		<description>Thank you for that quote, Mike C.  It says a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for that quote, Mike C.  It says a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike C</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66874</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 01:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66874</guid>
		<description>I was skimming over Peter Rollin&#039;s book &quot;How (Not) to Speak of God&quot; and came across this quote that I thought was particularly relevant to this discussion and to Mother Teresa&#039;s experience of God&#039;s absence in particular. He writes:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Holy Saturday is the name that is given to that 24-hour period nestled between Good Friday and Easter Sunday, between crucifixion and resurrection.

It is a day that speaks of the absence of God and is as much a part of the Christian experience as the day before and the day after. It is the moment when we experience the depth of Christ&#039;s cry on the cross [&quot;My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?&quot;], the moment when we feel abandoned by God and utterly alone in the world. This day is never as far from us as we would wish, for there are times when we all are unsettled by the feeling that we have been abandoned and that everything we believe may be nothing more than empty words and hopeless dreams. This is the horror of the cross, not the blood and suffering of an innocent, but the removal of God.

Holy Saturday ridicules the idea that the feeling of God&#039;s absence is reserved for those who are irreligious, for in reality it is only the religious individual who can really know this absence. This is analogous to the experience of waiting for one whom we love in a cafe. The later they are, the more we experience their absence. Our beloved is absent to everyone in the room but we are the only one who feels it.

Who among us does not find ourselves dwelling from time to time, or perhaps at all times, in the space of Holy Saturday? Yet this day is rarely spoken of and the experience is often seen as one to be avoided or merely tolerated rather than embraced.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was skimming over Peter Rollin&#8217;s book &#8220;How (Not) to Speak of God&#8221; and came across this quote that I thought was particularly relevant to this discussion and to Mother Teresa&#8217;s experience of God&#8217;s absence in particular. He writes:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Holy Saturday is the name that is given to that 24-hour period nestled between Good Friday and Easter Sunday, between crucifixion and resurrection.</p>
<p>It is a day that speaks of the absence of God and is as much a part of the Christian experience as the day before and the day after. It is the moment when we experience the depth of Christ&#8217;s cry on the cross ["My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"], the moment when we feel abandoned by God and utterly alone in the world. This day is never as far from us as we would wish, for there are times when we all are unsettled by the feeling that we have been abandoned and that everything we believe may be nothing more than empty words and hopeless dreams. This is the horror of the cross, not the blood and suffering of an innocent, but the removal of God.</p>
<p>Holy Saturday ridicules the idea that the feeling of God&#8217;s absence is reserved for those who are irreligious, for in reality it is only the religious individual who can really know this absence. This is analogous to the experience of waiting for one whom we love in a cafe. The later they are, the more we experience their absence. Our beloved is absent to everyone in the room but we are the only one who feels it.</p>
<p>Who among us does not find ourselves dwelling from time to time, or perhaps at all times, in the space of Holy Saturday? Yet this day is rarely spoken of and the experience is often seen as one to be avoided or merely tolerated rather than embraced.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Mriana</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66808</link>
		<dc:creator>Mriana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66808</guid>
		<description>Keith, the way I see it, she was only human.  What difference does it make if she believed or not or had doubts about God even?  Personally, I&#039;m not bothered by Dennett&#039;s statement concerning her.  It&#039;s all water off a ducks back IMHO and really doesn&#039;t matter.

Mother Teresa had a full life and I think it was reasonably happy.  MLK Jr did great things too, but he also studied Gandhi.  What of it?  So, they sometimes had doubts and questioned their beliefs.  Gene Roddenberry, a Humanist, had a good heart too.  Margaret Sanger, an atheist who fought for women&#039;s reproductive health and was a humanitarian.  Who really cares about their labels- whether given or self-described?

IMHO, it is not what is in the head, it is what is in one&#039;s heart that really matters and quite honestly, Mother Teresa had a big and caring heart.  Beyond that, it doesn&#039;t matter to me if she was a believer or not.  Let whoever wants to label her label her what they want.  It&#039;s how she lived her life that really matters to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith, the way I see it, she was only human.  What difference does it make if she believed or not or had doubts about God even?  Personally, I&#8217;m not bothered by Dennett&#8217;s statement concerning her.  It&#8217;s all water off a ducks back IMHO and really doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
<p>Mother Teresa had a full life and I think it was reasonably happy.  MLK Jr did great things too, but he also studied Gandhi.  What of it?  So, they sometimes had doubts and questioned their beliefs.  Gene Roddenberry, a Humanist, had a good heart too.  Margaret Sanger, an atheist who fought for women&#8217;s reproductive health and was a humanitarian.  Who really cares about their labels- whether given or self-described?</p>
<p>IMHO, it is not what is in the head, it is what is in one&#8217;s heart that really matters and quite honestly, Mother Teresa had a big and caring heart.  Beyond that, it doesn&#8217;t matter to me if she was a believer or not.  Let whoever wants to label her label her what they want.  It&#8217;s how she lived her life that really matters to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike C</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66800</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66800</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That makes her pretty close to being a closet atheist in my book.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I haven&#039;t read the letters and I can&#039;t find any good details online. Can anyone confirm whether the core of MT&#039;s doubts were actually about God&#039;s existence - or even that her struggles were primarily about intellectual &quot;doubts&quot;? There are many ways to struggle with one&#039;s faith, and intellectual questions about God&#039;s existence are rarely the #1 issue for most believers in my experience.  The little snippets that I&#039;ve read about MT&#039;s struggles seem more about her questioning God&#039;s calling or spiritual/emotional presence in her life, not specifically about whether or not he exists. But I could be wrong as I haven&#039;t read the whole book.

olvlzl, you&#039;re reading it, what are you finding?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That makes her pretty close to being a closet atheist in my book.</p></blockquote>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read the letters and I can&#8217;t find any good details online. Can anyone confirm whether the core of MT&#8217;s doubts were actually about God&#8217;s existence &#8211; or even that her struggles were primarily about intellectual &#8220;doubts&#8221;? There are many ways to struggle with one&#8217;s faith, and intellectual questions about God&#8217;s existence are rarely the #1 issue for most believers in my experience.  The little snippets that I&#8217;ve read about MT&#8217;s struggles seem more about her questioning God&#8217;s calling or spiritual/emotional presence in her life, not specifically about whether or not he exists. But I could be wrong as I haven&#8217;t read the whole book.</p>
<p>olvlzl, you&#8217;re reading it, what are you finding?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike C</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66796</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 17:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66796</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;She continued to follow her deepest convictions even when her feelings said otherwise. That is the behavior of an honest &amp; respectable human being, and the precise opposite of hypocrisy.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well said Keith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>She continued to follow her deepest convictions even when her feelings said otherwise. That is the behavior of an honest &amp; respectable human being, and the precise opposite of hypocrisy.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well said Keith.</p>
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		<title>By: severalspeciesof</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66789</link>
		<dc:creator>severalspeciesof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 16:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66789</guid>
		<description>Been away for awhile on vacation, so this MT news is news to me (I won&#039;t listen to or watch newscasts while on vacation), but from what I&#039;ve garnered from other sites that I&#039;ve come across today, it looks as though MT&#039;s doubts weren&#039;t just sporadic, but terminal, lasting all the way till her death. They were also deeply felt, enough apparently for the church to perform an exorcism. That makes her pretty close to being a closet atheist in my book. Yet I agree with Keith, in saying this does not make her a hypocrite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Been away for awhile on vacation, so this MT news is news to me (I won&#8217;t listen to or watch newscasts while on vacation), but from what I&#8217;ve garnered from other sites that I&#8217;ve come across today, it looks as though MT&#8217;s doubts weren&#8217;t just sporadic, but terminal, lasting all the way till her death. They were also deeply felt, enough apparently for the church to perform an exorcism. That makes her pretty close to being a closet atheist in my book. Yet I agree with Keith, in saying this does not make her a hypocrite.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66735</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66735</guid>
		<description>I read the article on Mother Theresa in TIME for the first time last night.  Hitchens was quoted in it, and basically identified MT as a closet atheist as Dennett has here.  I agree with Mike C. that this extrapolation goes too far ... one can have times of doubt without being an atheist.  However, I wonder if there is another side to ministry, difficult for non-Nuns, etc. to understand.

Mother Theresa gave herself throughout her life to the poor and to Jesus.  When you serve the poor in as self-sacrificing a way as she did, you burn out.  Her life of self-sacrifice suggests that she regularly chose to follow Jesus and give herself for others even when she did not feel like it.  That she did not feel like it that often is precisely why she is saintly.  She served others even when things were tough.  For guys like Hitchens, or Dennett, or myself to use her heartfelt letters to promote our own agenda while we sit in palaces is a joke.  We are not in position to accurately judge her, because we have not walked anywhere near her shoes.  

Perhaps I&#039;m too easily bothered, but I find it grossly offensive to hear her struggles used as evidence that she was some winking hypocrite.  She conitnued to follow her deepest convictions even when her feelings said otherwise.  That is the behavior of an honest &amp; respectable human being, and the precise opposite of hypocrisy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the article on Mother Theresa in TIME for the first time last night.  Hitchens was quoted in it, and basically identified MT as a closet atheist as Dennett has here.  I agree with Mike C. that this extrapolation goes too far &#8230; one can have times of doubt without being an atheist.  However, I wonder if there is another side to ministry, difficult for non-Nuns, etc. to understand.</p>
<p>Mother Theresa gave herself throughout her life to the poor and to Jesus.  When you serve the poor in as self-sacrificing a way as she did, you burn out.  Her life of self-sacrifice suggests that she regularly chose to follow Jesus and give herself for others even when she did not feel like it.  That she did not feel like it that often is precisely why she is saintly.  She served others even when things were tough.  For guys like Hitchens, or Dennett, or myself to use her heartfelt letters to promote our own agenda while we sit in palaces is a joke.  We are not in position to accurately judge her, because we have not walked anywhere near her shoes.  </p>
<p>Perhaps I&#8217;m too easily bothered, but I find it grossly offensive to hear her struggles used as evidence that she was some winking hypocrite.  She conitnued to follow her deepest convictions even when her feelings said otherwise.  That is the behavior of an honest &amp; respectable human being, and the precise opposite of hypocrisy.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66388</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 04:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66388</guid>
		<description>I should have said &quot;Some Christians/Muslims/Hindus/Jews/etc.&quot; My bad! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have said &#8220;Some Christians/Muslims/Hindus/Jews/etc.&#8221; My bad! <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66387</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 04:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/daniel-dennett-on-secretly-atheist-religious-leaders/#comment-66387</guid>
		<description>My husband doesn&#039;t like to call himself an atheist, but he and I share all of the same views regarding God: that the idea of a personal God as constructed by Christianity/Islam/Some Hindus/Some Jews/etc is logically flawed and therefore not possible. He choses to define God in a different way and will be an ordained minister within the next year. He doesn&#039;t share his views regarding his interpretation of God, mostly because he feels it&#039;s a personal decision that everyone has to make on their own. He will challenge fundamental beliefs that are inconsistent, but never push someone to share his views precisely. And having watched him go through seminary over the past four years, I can say that many of his fellow students and professors view things in the same way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My husband doesn&#8217;t like to call himself an atheist, but he and I share all of the same views regarding God: that the idea of a personal God as constructed by Christianity/Islam/Some Hindus/Some Jews/etc is logically flawed and therefore not possible. He choses to define God in a different way and will be an ordained minister within the next year. He doesn&#8217;t share his views regarding his interpretation of God, mostly because he feels it&#8217;s a personal decision that everyone has to make on their own. He will challenge fundamental beliefs that are inconsistent, but never push someone to share his views precisely. And having watched him go through seminary over the past four years, I can say that many of his fellow students and professors view things in the same way.</p>
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