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	<title>Comments on: Psychiatry: The Profession of Atheists</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 00:44:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: olvlzl, no ism, no ist</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68755</link>
		<dc:creator>olvlzl, no ism, no ist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68755</guid>
		<description>Mriana, I&#039;ve never taken the gamble on the psych industry, never had the need. You really can&#039;t deal with this on the basis of scientific discussion, can you.  Obviously my joke about psychologists turning criticism of their field into a mental illness is exactly on target.

As a rationalist a freethinker and a devotee of science, you are a fraud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mriana, I&#8217;ve never taken the gamble on the psych industry, never had the need. You really can&#8217;t deal with this on the basis of scientific discussion, can you.  Obviously my joke about psychologists turning criticism of their field into a mental illness is exactly on target.</p>
<p>As a rationalist a freethinker and a devotee of science, you are a fraud.</p>
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		<title>By: Mriana</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68753</link>
		<dc:creator>Mriana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68753</guid>
		<description>I struck a nerve.  Apparently I was right and you have been hurt by someone in the psychology field.  Sorry about that.  There are good ones out there who are not bad and do try to help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I struck a nerve.  Apparently I was right and you have been hurt by someone in the psychology field.  Sorry about that.  There are good ones out there who are not bad and do try to help.</p>
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		<title>By: grazatt</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68752</link>
		<dc:creator>grazatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68752</guid>
		<description>No, I am talking about what everyone has said! Although props to you for catching my reference!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I am talking about what everyone has said! Although props to you for catching my reference!</p>
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		<title>By: olvlzl, no ism, no ist</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68751</link>
		<dc:creator>olvlzl, no ism, no ist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68751</guid>
		<description>grazatt, if you&#039;re talking about what I&#039;ve said, is that really the best you can do by way of refutation?  Or, as some of the &quot;rationalists and freethinkers&quot; here seem to think, you don&#039;t need to defend the faith based assertions of well entrenched establishments against citations and reasoned arguments.  That is as long as the establishment is asserted to contain a majority of atheists.

Apparently you&#039;d rather be a mule. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>grazatt, if you&#8217;re talking about what I&#8217;ve said, is that really the best you can do by way of refutation?  Or, as some of the &#8220;rationalists and freethinkers&#8221; here seem to think, you don&#8217;t need to defend the faith based assertions of well entrenched establishments against citations and reasoned arguments.  That is as long as the establishment is asserted to contain a majority of atheists.</p>
<p>Apparently you&#8217;d rather be a mule.</p>
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		<title>By: grazatt</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68744</link>
		<dc:creator>grazatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68744</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;And all the monkeys aren&#039;t in the zoo
Every day you meet quite a few&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>And all the monkeys aren&#8217;t in the zoo<br />
Every day you meet quite a few</strong></p>
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		<title>By: olvlzl, no ism, no ist</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68739</link>
		<dc:creator>olvlzl, no ism, no ist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 23:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68739</guid>
		<description>Apparently the authors of that article are as ignorant as you keep claiming I am, you did look at it, didn&#039;t you, before you asserted I didn&#039;t know what I was talking about.  Odd that so many psychologists don&#039;t seem to realize that you have deemed that their favorite tests aren&#039;t used anymore. 

How many more newly discovered diseases are going to be in the new edition?  Think of all those treatable people and the billable hours that will generate. 

Will there be a disease syndrome with criticism of psychology as its major symptom?  That is what you meant about going off the deep end, isn&#039;t it?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently the authors of that article are as ignorant as you keep claiming I am, you did look at it, didn&#8217;t you, before you asserted I didn&#8217;t know what I was talking about.  Odd that so many psychologists don&#8217;t seem to realize that you have deemed that their favorite tests aren&#8217;t used anymore. </p>
<p>How many more newly discovered diseases are going to be in the new edition?  Think of all those treatable people and the billable hours that will generate. </p>
<p>Will there be a disease syndrome with criticism of psychology as its major symptom?  That is what you meant about going off the deep end, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Mriana</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68723</link>
		<dc:creator>Mriana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68723</guid>
		<description>Now you are really going off the deep end about something you know nothing about and I don&#039;t have time to sit here and teach a class about it.  You need to sit in several psych classes to answer all those question.

However the DSM-IV is soon to be revised.

To be honest, I think you ran into one of the bad psychologists and are taking your anger out on everyone involved in the field.  It&#039;s not me you&#039;re angry with, nor is it the field, but rather whoever it was that did you wrong.  I&#039;m sorry that happened and I&#039;m sorry you feel you have to take it out on everything and everyone in the psych field, esp if I&#039;m right with my theory.  I seriously doubt you will admit it though and will deny it to the fullest extent just so you can find ways to prove that psychology is bad, when it really isn&#039;t.  That&#039;s ok, I&#039;ve dealt with people who had serious mental illnesses and survived their anger, so I can take it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now you are really going off the deep end about something you know nothing about and I don&#8217;t have time to sit here and teach a class about it.  You need to sit in several psych classes to answer all those question.</p>
<p>However the DSM-IV is soon to be revised.</p>
<p>To be honest, I think you ran into one of the bad psychologists and are taking your anger out on everyone involved in the field.  It&#8217;s not me you&#8217;re angry with, nor is it the field, but rather whoever it was that did you wrong.  I&#8217;m sorry that happened and I&#8217;m sorry you feel you have to take it out on everything and everyone in the psych field, esp if I&#8217;m right with my theory.  I seriously doubt you will admit it though and will deny it to the fullest extent just so you can find ways to prove that psychology is bad, when it really isn&#8217;t.  That&#8217;s ok, I&#8217;ve dealt with people who had serious mental illnesses and survived their anger, so I can take it.</p>
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		<title>By: olvlzl, no ism, no ist</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68720</link>
		<dc:creator>olvlzl, no ism, no ist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68720</guid>
		<description>I found it.  Any claim that the Rorschach is a thing of the past is false.  In 1995 the APA, which pretty much defines the psychological establishment in the U.S.,  did a random survey of clinicians.  43% said they always used the inkblots, 82% said they use it at least occasionally.  The almost as silly Thematic Apperception Test was always used by 34% and always by the same figure as the inkblots.  So, any claim that they are ancient history is wishful thinking.  

You might want to read the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.psychologicalscience.org/newsresearch/publications/journals/sa1_2.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;entire article&lt;/a&gt; and see that even the shrinks who use the tests use them for things they aren&#039;t supposed to be used for.   And it&#039;s a pretty important matter.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
But how correct would they be? The answer is important
because psychologists frequently apply such “projective” instruments
(presenting people with ambiguous images, words
or objects) as components of mental assessments, and because
the outcomes can profoundly affect the lives of the respondents.
The tools often serve, for instance, as aids in diagnosing mental
illness, in predicting whether convicts are likely to become
violent after being paroled, in evaluating the mental stability of
parents engaged in custody battles, and in discerning whether
children have been sexually molested.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

 Notice that some of these uses could clearly wreck someones&#039; life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found it.  Any claim that the Rorschach is a thing of the past is false.  In 1995 the APA, which pretty much defines the psychological establishment in the U.S.,  did a random survey of clinicians.  43% said they always used the inkblots, 82% said they use it at least occasionally.  The almost as silly Thematic Apperception Test was always used by 34% and always by the same figure as the inkblots.  So, any claim that they are ancient history is wishful thinking.  </p>
<p>You might want to read the <a href="http://www.psychologicalscience.org/newsresearch/publications/journals/sa1_2.pdf" rel="nofollow">entire article</a> and see that even the shrinks who use the tests use them for things they aren&#8217;t supposed to be used for.   And it&#8217;s a pretty important matter.</p>
<blockquote><p>
But how correct would they be? The answer is important<br />
because psychologists frequently apply such “projective” instruments<br />
(presenting people with ambiguous images, words<br />
or objects) as components of mental assessments, and because<br />
the outcomes can profoundly affect the lives of the respondents.<br />
The tools often serve, for instance, as aids in diagnosing mental<br />
illness, in predicting whether convicts are likely to become<br />
violent after being paroled, in evaluating the mental stability of<br />
parents engaged in custody battles, and in discerning whether<br />
children have been sexually molested.</p></blockquote>
<p> Notice that some of these uses could clearly wreck someones&#8217; life.</p>
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		<title>By: olvlzl, no ism, no ist</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68709</link>
		<dc:creator>olvlzl, no ism, no ist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68709</guid>
		<description>So why are they still given if their unreliability and validity are finally admitted?    
Would a real science, as administered by its official bodies, not suppress them?  Medical treatments and tests that are bogus are discontinued, but not in the &quot;science&quot; of psychology.

And it really doesn&#039;t answer my question, if they are not scientifically valid now how could they ever have been valid during the decades they&#039;ve been foisted on an innocent public?  I believe the Rorschach is still claimed to be under copyright by those with a financial interest in their publication, though they certainly shouldn&#039;t be.  Is the  Able Screen or any of the myriad of other tests which seem to spring up as easily as new mental diseases in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, valid?  Are some and not others?  Since they are often used in the judicial system and to determine employment and educational opportunities a bogus test can have a major negative impact on lives of people, probably much more so than the average fortune teller.  Just the fee for taking the test dwarfs what your typical, neighborhood  fortune teller would charge and they don&#039;t typically string people along for years at three figures an hour.   

No, psychology is a mess and there is no sign that it is willing to clean itself up and anyone who tries will have the full weight of a class of very wealthy practitioners fighting reform tooth and nail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So why are they still given if their unreliability and validity are finally admitted?<br />
Would a real science, as administered by its official bodies, not suppress them?  Medical treatments and tests that are bogus are discontinued, but not in the &#8220;science&#8221; of psychology.</p>
<p>And it really doesn&#8217;t answer my question, if they are not scientifically valid now how could they ever have been valid during the decades they&#8217;ve been foisted on an innocent public?  I believe the Rorschach is still claimed to be under copyright by those with a financial interest in their publication, though they certainly shouldn&#8217;t be.  Is the  Able Screen or any of the myriad of other tests which seem to spring up as easily as new mental diseases in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, valid?  Are some and not others?  Since they are often used in the judicial system and to determine employment and educational opportunities a bogus test can have a major negative impact on lives of people, probably much more so than the average fortune teller.  Just the fee for taking the test dwarfs what your typical, neighborhood  fortune teller would charge and they don&#8217;t typically string people along for years at three figures an hour.   </p>
<p>No, psychology is a mess and there is no sign that it is willing to clean itself up and anyone who tries will have the full weight of a class of very wealthy practitioners fighting reform tooth and nail.</p>
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		<title>By: Mriana</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68697</link>
		<dc:creator>Mriana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 20:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/09/03/psychiatry-the-profession-of-atheists/#comment-68697</guid>
		<description>I already said they weren&#039;t used anymore or even taught in classes, except to say they are not reliable or valid tests.  I guess you missed that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I already said they weren&#8217;t used anymore or even taught in classes, except to say they are not reliable or valid tests.  I guess you missed that.</p>
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