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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Atheism Has No Redeeming Social Value&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: Emily Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-115947</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 01:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-115947</guid>
		<description>I am so glad other people were as angered as myself. I go to Baylor University. I also don&#039;t believe in God. All undergrads at Baylor have to take 2 semesters of Chapel (2 hours a week or worship and lecture) and well as 2 actual religion classes, which focus only on Christianity of course. I can deal with religion being forced on me, I&#039;ve dealt with that. But the article angered and upset me to the point where I wanted to throw something! If a mother raises her child with morals, the child will have morals! Religion or not. My mom taught me not to lie, cheat, steal, among many other things, and I have morals because of her. What about the Jewish community, Muslims, Buddists as well? This article says only the Christian religion provides morals so it is an insult to EVERYONE who does not follow the Christian religion, not just us. He could have easily written that Christianity supports morals which would be unoffensive and with a positive angle. There was no need to say the things he did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so glad other people were as angered as myself. I go to Baylor University. I also don&#8217;t believe in God. All undergrads at Baylor have to take 2 semesters of Chapel (2 hours a week or worship and lecture) and well as 2 actual religion classes, which focus only on Christianity of course. I can deal with religion being forced on me, I&#8217;ve dealt with that. But the article angered and upset me to the point where I wanted to throw something! If a mother raises her child with morals, the child will have morals! Religion or not. My mom taught me not to lie, cheat, steal, among many other things, and I have morals because of her. What about the Jewish community, Muslims, Buddists as well? This article says only the Christian religion provides morals so it is an insult to EVERYONE who does not follow the Christian religion, not just us. He could have easily written that Christianity supports morals which would be unoffensive and with a positive angle. There was no need to say the things he did.</p>
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		<title>By: Mriana</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-79053</link>
		<dc:creator>Mriana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-79053</guid>
		<description>I agree, Sue.  It is sad.  I also agree that most people do good most of the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, Sue.  It is sad.  I also agree that most people do good most of the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-79014</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-79014</guid>
		<description>This is one of the things that makes me most sad about religious people. Too many of them think that without the threat of a big scary bearded God sitting on his cloud waiting to send us all to Hell, everyone will Do Evil all the time. Whereas actually, I think most people do good most of the time because doing good makes society work: it&#039;s nothing more complicated than that. Love thy neighbour because it&#039;s easier to get on with thy neighbour than to have a war with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of the things that makes me most sad about religious people. Too many of them think that without the threat of a big scary bearded God sitting on his cloud waiting to send us all to Hell, everyone will Do Evil all the time. Whereas actually, I think most people do good most of the time because doing good makes society work: it&#8217;s nothing more complicated than that. Love thy neighbour because it&#8217;s easier to get on with thy neighbour than to have a war with them.</p>
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		<title>By: AV</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78675</link>
		<dc:creator>AV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78675</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Others here have given me names and places where atheist organizations are active, betraying the notion that atheist organizations exist “to combat discrimination, injustice and bigotry on the part of the wider (and, let’s face it, mainly Christian) community.”&lt;/i&gt;

Atheist organisations can exist to combat discrimination, injustice and bigotry on the part of the wider community &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; be active in altruism/charity work at the same time. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Others here have given me names and places where atheist organizations are active, betraying the notion that atheist organizations exist “to combat discrimination, injustice and bigotry on the part of the wider (and, let’s face it, mainly Christian) community.”</i></p>
<p>Atheist organisations can exist to combat discrimination, injustice and bigotry on the part of the wider community <i>and</i> be active in altruism/charity work at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78492</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78492</guid>
		<description>At our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.atheistsforhumanrights.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;organization&lt;/a&gt; we have a winter solstice party every year. Our proceeds go to Katadin (a home for at risk teens) to provide them with &quot;Christmas&quot; presents. We do not give them a lot, but it&#039;s something at least. &quot;Those that wait until they have a lot to give don&#039;t usually give anything&quot;. We also give money annually for a GLBT scholarship. Unfortunately we have no extortion practices in place to make our members give their 10%, whatever atheists give is strictly because they want to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At our <a href="http://www.atheistsforhumanrights.org" rel="nofollow">organization</a> we have a winter solstice party every year. Our proceeds go to Katadin (a home for at risk teens) to provide them with &#8220;Christmas&#8221; presents. We do not give them a lot, but it&#8217;s something at least. &#8220;Those that wait until they have a lot to give don&#8217;t usually give anything&#8221;. We also give money annually for a GLBT scholarship. Unfortunately we have no extortion practices in place to make our members give their 10%, whatever atheists give is strictly because they want to.</p>
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		<title>By: monkeymind</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78488</link>
		<dc:creator>monkeymind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78488</guid>
		<description>Calvin, if you read your original post again I think you might see how people might take it to be, forgive me, an invitation to a pissing match: You might have thought you were asking a neutral question, but I can see why people heard: &quot;what are YOU GUYS doing compared to all the great stuff we are doing? HUH? HUH?&quot;

The fact is, the great thing about the open society is that there is a lot of space where people can participate on an equal footing without regard to their religious or ethnic affiliation. I think you are not really taking in what Karen had to say about atheist organizations representing a narrow slice of what atheists as people are interested in. 

There are tons, literally tons, of secular organizations, that do not ask people what their religious beliefs are before permitting them to participate. As long as they can abide by the volunteer guidelines, they&#039;re in. There are also some religious groups which are almost as open. But the majority of religious groups require you to adhere to a particular view about God before you can participate. So I would argue that non-religious or secular groups are more important for building community in a modern society where people come from all different types of religious backgrounds.

The fact that atheist groups sometimes do charity work doesn&#039;t alter the fact that that&#039;s not why most people join these organizations. Heck, I belong to a knitting group and a canoe club that sometimes do charity work, but that&#039;s not why I joined those groups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Calvin, if you read your original post again I think you might see how people might take it to be, forgive me, an invitation to a pissing match: You might have thought you were asking a neutral question, but I can see why people heard: &#8220;what are YOU GUYS doing compared to all the great stuff we are doing? HUH? HUH?&#8221;</p>
<p>The fact is, the great thing about the open society is that there is a lot of space where people can participate on an equal footing without regard to their religious or ethnic affiliation. I think you are not really taking in what Karen had to say about atheist organizations representing a narrow slice of what atheists as people are interested in. </p>
<p>There are tons, literally tons, of secular organizations, that do not ask people what their religious beliefs are before permitting them to participate. As long as they can abide by the volunteer guidelines, they&#8217;re in. There are also some religious groups which are almost as open. But the majority of religious groups require you to adhere to a particular view about God before you can participate. So I would argue that non-religious or secular groups are more important for building community in a modern society where people come from all different types of religious backgrounds.</p>
<p>The fact that atheist groups sometimes do charity work doesn&#8217;t alter the fact that that&#8217;s not why most people join these organizations. Heck, I belong to a knitting group and a canoe club that sometimes do charity work, but that&#8217;s not why I joined those groups.</p>
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		<title>By: Calvin Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78482</link>
		<dc:creator>Calvin Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78482</guid>
		<description>AV, 

     I&#039;m not sure why I&#039;m sensing a bit of hostility towards my question. It&#039;s a simple enough one and (what I believe) is an innocent one at that. I have explained that I am at a disadvantage when it comes to knowing who is doing what among atheist organizations. Others here have given me &lt;strong&gt;names&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;em&gt; and &lt;strong&gt;places&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; where atheist organizations are active, betraying the notion that atheist organizations exist &quot;to combat discrimination, injustice and bigotry on the part of the wider (and, let’s face it, mainly Christian) community.&quot; It would seem they exist for more than that, as evidenced by the countless examples listed off for me here at Friendlyatheist.com. 

      If you would like to argue (which it seems you are hell-bent on doing), we can argue as to the reasons atheists help others and the reasons Christians help others. Atheists seem to help others without the need of a God directing them to do so. Christians, on the other hand, serve because Jesus tells them to. Without this, Christians would (generally) argue, I have no reason to help anyone but myself. Christians will point to the failure of Communism as evidence of this fact (i.e. Atheism + the notion that mankind is basically good and will help his fellow man out without God = failure). This, I believe is an excellent discussion to have and leads to the next question, &quot;Which has &lt;strong&gt;more&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;em&gt; redeeming value then: atheism or Christianity?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AV, </p>
<p>     I&#8217;m not sure why I&#8217;m sensing a bit of hostility towards my question. It&#8217;s a simple enough one and (what I believe) is an innocent one at that. I have explained that I am at a disadvantage when it comes to knowing who is doing what among atheist organizations. Others here have given me <strong>names</strong><em> and <strong>places</strong></em> where atheist organizations are active, betraying the notion that atheist organizations exist &#8220;to combat discrimination, injustice and bigotry on the part of the wider (and, let’s face it, mainly Christian) community.&#8221; It would seem they exist for more than that, as evidenced by the countless examples listed off for me here at Friendlyatheist.com. </p>
<p>      If you would like to argue (which it seems you are hell-bent on doing), we can argue as to the reasons atheists help others and the reasons Christians help others. Atheists seem to help others without the need of a God directing them to do so. Christians, on the other hand, serve because Jesus tells them to. Without this, Christians would (generally) argue, I have no reason to help anyone but myself. Christians will point to the failure of Communism as evidence of this fact (i.e. Atheism + the notion that mankind is basically good and will help his fellow man out without God = failure). This, I believe is an excellent discussion to have and leads to the next question, &#8220;Which has <strong>more</strong><em> redeeming value then: atheism or Christianity?&#8221;</em></p>
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		<title>By: AV</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78477</link>
		<dc:creator>AV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78477</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I may be a Christian, but my question is legitimate.&lt;/i&gt;

Not really. For one thing: you&#039;re comparing apples and oranges when you compare Christian organisations with atheist organisations. The latter are not only fewer in number (given that there are fewer atheists), as you acknowledge, but they haven&#039;t been around for very long either. 

Furthermore, as Hemant points out in his post, &quot;atheism is nothing more than the lack of belief in God. Period. End of story.&quot; Atheist organise for the same reason that women, gays and lesbians and racial minorities have organised historically: to combat discrimination, injustice and bigotry on the part of the wider (and, let&#039;s face it, mainly Christian) community. Aside from that, herding atheists is like herding cats, as the saying goes. So the extent to which atheist organisations participate in charitable/altruistic activities cannot be a reliable metric of the &quot;redeeming social value&quot; of atheism. The only purpose such a metric can possibly serve is to confirm the prejudices of those who tout their own accomplishments and assume no one else is doing anything of value. 

But let&#039;s return to your original question:

&lt;i&gt;Can anyone share with me who is doing what organizations are still working to help the marginalized in the world?&lt;/i&gt;

To the extent that marginalisation--e.g. of gays &amp; lesbians, of women--can be the product of religion, then just about &lt;i&gt;every&lt;/i&gt; atheist organisation is working to help the marginalised. 

Hope that helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I may be a Christian, but my question is legitimate.</i></p>
<p>Not really. For one thing: you&#8217;re comparing apples and oranges when you compare Christian organisations with atheist organisations. The latter are not only fewer in number (given that there are fewer atheists), as you acknowledge, but they haven&#8217;t been around for very long either. </p>
<p>Furthermore, as Hemant points out in his post, &#8220;atheism is nothing more than the lack of belief in God. Period. End of story.&#8221; Atheist organise for the same reason that women, gays and lesbians and racial minorities have organised historically: to combat discrimination, injustice and bigotry on the part of the wider (and, let&#8217;s face it, mainly Christian) community. Aside from that, herding atheists is like herding cats, as the saying goes. So the extent to which atheist organisations participate in charitable/altruistic activities cannot be a reliable metric of the &#8220;redeeming social value&#8221; of atheism. The only purpose such a metric can possibly serve is to confirm the prejudices of those who tout their own accomplishments and assume no one else is doing anything of value. </p>
<p>But let&#8217;s return to your original question:</p>
<p><i>Can anyone share with me who is doing what organizations are still working to help the marginalized in the world?</i></p>
<p>To the extent that marginalisation&#8211;e.g. of gays &amp; lesbians, of women&#8211;can be the product of religion, then just about <i>every</i> atheist organisation is working to help the marginalised. </p>
<p>Hope that helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Calvin Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78465</link>
		<dc:creator>Calvin Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78465</guid>
		<description>I may be a Christian, but my question is legitimate. I am hosting a panel discussion at my Christian college (Rochester College) on Nov 12th and I want people to better understand where people are coming from. Two of my panelists are atheists. I am trying to keep from making blanket statements during the event. I am not attempting to &quot;move the goalposts&quot; or &quot;play a game.&quot; As a Christian, we tout our own accomplishments and assume no one else is doing anything of value. I REALLY do want to know and I thank those of you who were willing to give me a straight answer without assuming some hidden (antagonistic) agenda. Pax.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be a Christian, but my question is legitimate. I am hosting a panel discussion at my Christian college (Rochester College) on Nov 12th and I want people to better understand where people are coming from. Two of my panelists are atheists. I am trying to keep from making blanket statements during the event. I am not attempting to &#8220;move the goalposts&#8221; or &#8220;play a game.&#8221; As a Christian, we tout our own accomplishments and assume no one else is doing anything of value. I REALLY do want to know and I thank those of you who were willing to give me a straight answer without assuming some hidden (antagonistic) agenda. Pax.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78453</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2007/10/17/atheism-has-no-redeeming-social-value/#comment-78453</guid>
		<description>Note about Tsunami                            

Vijawawada, very near the east coast of India (ESE of Hyderabad), is too far inland to have been affected by the tsunami. As is typical in India, the city has mobilized in support of the relief effort. For example, workers at the Genting Lanco Kondapalli Power Project agreed to include a day&#039;s salary in a package sent by the company itself, said a press release. Some indicate that charity is a way of live in many parts of this country where abject poverty wields its scepter. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.positiveatheism.org/tocindia.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Atheist Centre&lt;/a&gt; has long been among the first to arrive on the scene of the floods and other tragedies that frequently cripple various parts of southern India, and Atheist Centre&#039;s volunteers are never afraid to &quot;get their hands dirty&quot; when addressing the truly ugly aspects of natural disaster, where human need transcends religious and political loyalty. On many occasions, the Atheist Centre has shown that human compassion can likewise transcend the same boundaries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note about Tsunami                            </p>
<p>Vijawawada, very near the east coast of India (ESE of Hyderabad), is too far inland to have been affected by the tsunami. As is typical in India, the city has mobilized in support of the relief effort. For example, workers at the Genting Lanco Kondapalli Power Project agreed to include a day&#8217;s salary in a package sent by the company itself, said a press release. Some indicate that charity is a way of live in many parts of this country where abject poverty wields its scepter. <a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/tocindia.htm" rel="nofollow">Atheist Centre</a> has long been among the first to arrive on the scene of the floods and other tragedies that frequently cripple various parts of southern India, and Atheist Centre&#8217;s volunteers are never afraid to &#8220;get their hands dirty&#8221; when addressing the truly ugly aspects of natural disaster, where human need transcends religious and political loyalty. On many occasions, the Atheist Centre has shown that human compassion can likewise transcend the same boundaries.</p>
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