Louder than a Picket Sign?

I wish I could wear a shirt like that where I live (bible belt) without getting either shot or threatened.

One question:

Why the need to label ourselves and make ourselves a target? This is one of those “WHY” questions that I ask myself.

Don’t get me wrong… I admire someone that has the courage to stand up for him/herself, but why? If the only intention is to piss people off, like “C’mon, I dare you to hate me…” kind of thing, then I don’t see how that’s constructive. (Believe me, I’ve done it too, and do it still at times.) This goes back to my post titled “Conflict: Our guilty pleasure?” I’d love to hear some of your thoughts.

By the way, I refuse to wear a cross around my neck, nor do I put little fishes on my car…

Why the need to label ourselves and make ourselves a target?

The reason that you see this label as making him a target is reason enough for him to wear the shirt. When I travel sometimes I wear Ohio State Buckeye shirts, does this make me a target? People like to express who they are and sometimes do it on their clothing. I don’t see this as “standing up for himself” he is saying who he is, just like if he was wearing a Justin Timberlake t-shirt.

Linda, I doubt the guy is trying to make himself a target as an atheist, though I suppose to a certain extent he is making himself a target as a striker. I don’t see any indication he is trying to piss anyone off- its not like he wore the shirt to a funeral or to church. I am not sure why an “atheist” shirt is any different from a shirt with a college logo, or a band the person likes, or a shirt with pretty butterflies- it all expresses an aspect of the person- I am an atheist, I went to this college, I like this band, I like pretty butterflies. Having an opinion, and expressing it in a non-violent, non-confrontational way is not a trying to cause conflict or get a rise out of people.

Linda,

First off, “white supremicist” “taliban” are extremist, polarizing figures. An “atheist” is hardly in that league. If your analogy cannot work without plugging in murderers and hate-mongers, then it’s a very weak argument.

Second, about half or more than half the people I meet seem to wear a cross necklace. To me, it’s as ubiquitous as a wedding ring. It’s not perpetuating a conflict, it’s just who they are.

Third, everything everyone wears makes a statement about who they are. I can tell you something about someone and their self-image just based on their shoes, the length of their shirtsleeves, their collar, neckware, casual vs dressy, their economic status, often their sexual orientation…

Clothes are part of living, it’s both a label and the way the flower blooms. Sometimes clothes have words on them. I learn a lot about someone just based on whether their clothes say “Prada” or “Nike” or “Mustache Rides 5 Cents.”

I don’t get it. I don’t see a college logo as the same thing as a label indicating our religious orientation. What about a “homosexual” t-shirt? How about “Taliban sympathizer” or “White Supremacist?”

Did you choose these examples because you think they would bother the “other side”? Wearing a college logo in certain places and situations does exactly the same thing. It is often used to draw attention to yourself and you can’t expect comments from people who agree and disagree with the school you support. And I might add many people take their football/basketball teams more seriously than god or religion.

Are you telling me that you would see me the exact same way as the next person if I were wearing a “Jesus is King” t-shirt?

Last night I saw a guy wearing a Jesus is King shirt in the style of the Burger King logo. Other than thinking the shirt was too small on him and bit dirty I didn’t think much of it.

What is that if not trying to set yourself apart somehow and stand on one side of the conflict, thereby perpetuating it. Aren’t we all in this together?

What about Jews wearing yamikas? Are they trying to set themselves apart?
It seems you don’t like it because it stikes a cord with you and it is a conflict (atheism and religion) in your mind. It is not that way for everybody. Should we all wear blank wordless clothes in the hopes of not stirring a conflict in somebody?

Does a flower need a sign around its neck to be recognized?A flower just blooms the way it was mean to be, and the whole world KNOWS that it’s a flower. It doesn’t even have to verbalize it.

Now this is just goofy. Little do you know all my flowers wear athiest hats.

HappyNat,

Little do you know all my flowers wear athiest hats.

Now that made me laugh. I could visualize it. Thanks for keeping it light. I get carried away sometimes with my passion and forget to have fun.

Just know that I love you guys, and I have good intentions at heart, even if I can’t seem to be completely rid of that foot-in-mouth disease.

I don’t think I am being defensive here. Nor do I think you think I shouldn’t be different.

My points were:

1. Don’t accuss gay people of being the same in awfulness as white supremacists, or of deserving the same reaction by wearing t-shirts that identify them as those things.
2. Your flower analogy is incorrect.
3. People wear labels to set themselves apart. It makes sense for people who are minorities of some type, ie: I would probably go talk to the atheist shirt guy because I am an atheist too. We might have nothing else in common, but it can be nice in a sea of people to see someone with whom you have something in common. Shirts that id someone as a member of a large group (ie: American, white, straight) would not give me a common talking point with someone else, because I could have probably guessed, based on demographics for people living in America, that statistically speaking, people I run into are likely to be those three things, or at least two or one of those things. Personally, I get excited when I see peole wearing my college’s logo, or the shirt of a band I like, or one that expresses a belief I have, because it means I can connect with that person in some way, or at the very least, something I like is getting more exposure.

I think you are being defensive, here, because I know I could care less who wears what shirt. I think you are taking this labelling thing a bit too far. It’s a t-shirt, not a forehead tattoo. Tomorrow, that guy could put on another shirt that expresses another aspect of his personality- or a suit, a penquin costume, or a toga. At the end of the day, its just clothing.

Again, I am not sure how wearing a shirt that implies the wearer has an opinion or a viewpoint is the same as saying that someone else doesn’t have the right to have a different one.

Alright, Linda, I think I see where we are coming at this from different angles. I am saying, yes, these tshirts are good because they can help us find people with whom we are likely to get along. You are saying, this isn’t good because many people will see a shirt and refuse to speak to them, because they have such different beliefs. For me, the shirt is a good thing that can bring together people with similiar beliefs/tastes/ideas. For you, you worry that people who find those beliefs/tastes/ideas distasteful are going to judge that person based on stereotypes about that person.

And now looking at it from that angle, I will admit you have a point. I am probably more likely to approach someone whose shirt reflects something about me, neutral towards those whose clothes don’t apply to me, and less likely to approach someone with an opposite viewpoint, all other things equal. Hmmm, that’s something I should think about, I suppose.

On the other hand, I find that people who hold beliefs which are opposite to mine have entirely different mindsets, and it can be hard to have a deep friendship with someone who, say, is deeply sexist. If someone doesn’t like me because of my gender, I have a hard time discussing anything with them. I also have a difficult time conversing with people who assume I am going to go to hell. Soooo,,,, I am not sure how easy it is to overcome those types of barriers against people advertising the mindset that they are somehow better than me, for whatever reason.

I don’t like how WE (my circle, excluding me) look at you when you wear the t-shirt. I don’t like how we judge you by the words that are on there. I don’t like how we don’t even get the chance to know who that is underneath the shirt.

Linda, thanks for your kindness and honesty. I really appreciate your participation here.

We agree with what you’re saying, above. But the only way to change that negative reaction is for us to come out, be honest about who we are and prove to those who fear and hate us that we’re just ordinary people who happen not to believe in any god(s).

If we stay in the closet (and that’s exactly where I am in many respects, I’ll admit it) people in “your circle” will never understand that we’re their neighbors, their friends and their co-workers. In many cases, we’re members of their own family, but they don’t know it!

This is why we admire and applaud the picketer wearing the t-shirt proudly and unashamedly. Most of us wish we were as courageous as Siamang and could do the same thing.