I don’t use the word presume or presumably to be offensive; I use it because I don’t want to assume something I don’t know for certain.

JeffN – ok, I’ll accept that, since I don’t see anywhere where the person in question said which side of the fence he was on. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Just so you know, though, while what you said came from a different place, it’s a really annoying thing that atheists hear a lot. The supposition that an atheist couldn’t be that pissed off unless at some level he or she really believed is beyond irritating and well into offensive.

Finding a different way to phrase genuine uncertainty than “presumably don’t believe in” would be a good thing.

I do understand the religious pint of view. I just don’t like it or agree with it.

I can understand why someone who believes in and fears God would accept any behavior whatsoever from God as being good by definition (even torturing the majority of “souls” forever in an afterlife). I also understand that religious people could logically justify extreme methods in this life to ensure that they (and their loved ones) don’t end up being in this eternally tortured majority, but end up in the heavenly (with God) minority in the afterlife.

And, yes, I believe that all these religious notions (of afterlives and eternal torturing) are all man-made-up. I don’t believe in an afterlife. But I do believe in life right now and want this life right now (for me and everyone else) to have as much quality as possible. By all means, use the positive aspects of religion. I just encourage people to jettison the negative aspects of religion.

That’s one too many “presumably”s

I don’t use the word presume or presumably to be offensive; I use it because I don’t want to assume something I don’t know for certain. Evan when the assumption would be a pretty good guess I would prefer to give a person the benefit of the doubt rather then telling them what they believe. I’m sorry if I was less then clear on my meaning and intent.

With consideration to the topic post i understand and somewhat agree with Linda’s point of view as well to some degree with Richards; and having read the various posts would like to point out that most Christians and religious people are not the monsters that some would like to believe we are. Though I’m not against spanking as a means of discipline what the comic is blatantly suggesting (as i believe Richard and perhaps one are two others have pointed out) is out right child abuse. Those who stoop to such practices i can say with some certainty or of the minority and not the majority amongst not just religious people but people in general. I can also say with all certainty that I resent the thought of these kinds of practices being associated by some as main stream Christianity and would like to thank the two or three on this post who pointed out that it is not. I would further like to say that if I saw such practices taught amongst my particular flavor of Christianity or in the church I attend I would be the first one to bitch and condemn it as heresy.

better understanding of why you have such hatred toward a God which you presumably don’t believe in.

That’s one too many “presumably”s, so let me explain it to you. It is more than possible to have a strong emotional reaction to something that isn’t real. I do it ever day. I watch a movie, read a book, or watch tv, and cry at sad endings, jump at scary things, get a warm glow when something good happens, and develop intense loathing for certain people, and none of it is real. It’s partly what’s called the willing suspension of disbelief. When a writer or actor is good enough, it doesn’t have to be willing. I have had a show or book wring emotion from me even when I was doing my best to not let it.

So, yes, Darryl or any of us can feel loathing for the figure presented to us as god. Doesn’t mean we believe. It’s more like a gut reaction to nastiness, it’s every bit as strong even if it’s only a nasty idea instead of nasty reality.

Darryl said,
December 11, 2007 at 10:57 am

Darryl That’s a lot of aggression for a God i Presume you don’t believe in.

Though i suspect you are well read and no doubt an educated individual may i suggest based on your post that you may be looking at the glass as half full meaning simply that though your point may and perhaps in some circles does have certain merit it would seem you are judging the whole based on bits and peaces you have herd or read here and there. May i further suggest that if you have not already done so that you read the account of the old testament as a whole as some on this sight have already done. If nothing else it well give you a better understanding of why you have such hatred toward a God which you presumably don’t believe in. Thanks for taking the time to consider my suggestions and happy holidays to you as well; without the colorful phrases.