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	<title>Comments on: Does Religious Literature Make You Less Intelligent?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:48:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Dawn</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119485</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119485</guid>
		<description>I find it a little bizarre that Little Women and PRide and Prejudice are chucked under &quot;Chick Lit&quot; instead of being under &#039;Classics&quot;.

Tells you a little bit about the biases of the author of the study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it a little bizarre that Little Women and PRide and Prejudice are chucked under &#8220;Chick Lit&#8221; instead of being under &#8216;Classics&#8221;.</p>
<p>Tells you a little bit about the biases of the author of the study.</p>
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		<title>By: cautious</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119425</link>
		<dc:creator>cautious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 07:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119425</guid>
		<description>I wrote way too much about this on my Facebook quasi-blog, so I&#039;ll just copy and paste from there.

&lt;em&gt;Lolita&lt;/em&gt; ranks the highest. Like, wow, you must be going to a really good school if students at your school like &lt;em&gt;Lolita&lt;/em&gt;. But when you look at the data, of the 1352 schools which were included in this analysis, how many of them, do ya think, had &lt;em&gt;Lolita&lt;/em&gt; among their students&#039; favourite books?

&lt;strong&gt;14.&lt;/strong&gt;

Yale, Princeton, Brown, Williams College, Columbia, Reed, NYU, Wellesley, St. John&#039;s College. Schools with realllllly bright students.

Smith College, Bennington, Marlboro, ok, still kinda good students.

School of the Museum of Fine Arts and CUNY: Queens College, well, at least you went to &lt;em&gt;a&lt;/em&gt; college.

So, if &lt;em&gt;Lolita&lt;/em&gt; is read, and loved, by a lot of students at your school, it could be one of the best schools in this country. Or a pretty good one. Or an average one.  

The author of the page reminds us that correlation != causation, but there doesn&#039;t even seem to be any correlation going on with this data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote way too much about this on my Facebook quasi-blog, so I&#8217;ll just copy and paste from there.</p>
<p><em>Lolita</em> ranks the highest. Like, wow, you must be going to a really good school if students at your school like <em>Lolita</em>. But when you look at the data, of the 1352 schools which were included in this analysis, how many of them, do ya think, had <em>Lolita</em> among their students&#8217; favourite books?</p>
<p><strong>14.</strong></p>
<p>Yale, Princeton, Brown, Williams College, Columbia, Reed, NYU, Wellesley, St. John&#8217;s College. Schools with realllllly bright students.</p>
<p>Smith College, Bennington, Marlboro, ok, still kinda good students.</p>
<p>School of the Museum of Fine Arts and CUNY: Queens College, well, at least you went to <em>a</em> college.</p>
<p>So, if <em>Lolita</em> is read, and loved, by a lot of students at your school, it could be one of the best schools in this country. Or a pretty good one. Or an average one.  </p>
<p>The author of the page reminds us that correlation != causation, but there doesn&#8217;t even seem to be any correlation going on with this data.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119400</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 04:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119400</guid>
		<description>This is interesting, but certainly should not be taken as even remotely scientific. I know too many people that list Crime &amp; Punishment or Lolita as their &quot;favorite book&quot; only because it makes them look smart, or because they&#039;re the only books they&#039;ve read (by the force of their high school English teacher).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting, but certainly should not be taken as even remotely scientific. I know too many people that list Crime &amp; Punishment or Lolita as their &#8220;favorite book&#8221; only because it makes them look smart, or because they&#8217;re the only books they&#8217;ve read (by the force of their high school English teacher).</p>
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		<title>By: Chaim Krause</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119345</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaim Krause</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119345</guid>
		<description>What?!? No Battlefield Earth?!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What?!? No Battlefield Earth?!?</p>
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		<title>By: cautious</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119322</link>
		<dc:creator>cautious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119322</guid>
		<description>I was going to write something more serious about this, but I realized eventually that it&#039;s not supposed to be taken seriously.  If this was an assignment for a class, I hope he didn&#039;t try to say anything scientific with this graph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was going to write something more serious about this, but I realized eventually that it&#8217;s not supposed to be taken seriously.  If this was an assignment for a class, I hope he didn&#8217;t try to say anything scientific with this graph.</p>
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		<title>By: Felicia Gilljam</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119293</link>
		<dc:creator>Felicia Gilljam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119293</guid>
		<description>I wonder if another problem with this might be that people spell out their books differently. When you enter your favourite books, if you don&#039;t separate them with commas they count as just one book. Also, I have added the author in brackets after each of my books, and I don&#039;t think &quot;The Selfish Gene&quot; and &quot;The Selfish Gene (Richard Dawkins)&quot; is counted as the same book by the facebook engine, just as &quot;The Bible&quot; and &quot;The Holy Bible&quot; are separate. So unless these people actually went and looked at people&#039;s profiles, they haven&#039;t seen the actual data, only the data from the people who&#039;ve filled in their favourite books in a certain way.

(Sorry if this is disjointed, I have a fever. :P)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if another problem with this might be that people spell out their books differently. When you enter your favourite books, if you don&#8217;t separate them with commas they count as just one book. Also, I have added the author in brackets after each of my books, and I don&#8217;t think &#8220;The Selfish Gene&#8221; and &#8220;The Selfish Gene (Richard Dawkins)&#8221; is counted as the same book by the facebook engine, just as &#8220;The Bible&#8221; and &#8220;The Holy Bible&#8221; are separate. So unless these people actually went and looked at people&#8217;s profiles, they haven&#8217;t seen the actual data, only the data from the people who&#8217;ve filled in their favourite books in a certain way.</p>
<p>(Sorry if this is disjointed, I have a fever. <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119284</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119284</guid>
		<description>Other people have pointed out the glaringly painful &quot;methodological flaws&quot; in this study -- Hemant, shame on you for calling it an experiment, which requires random assignment and an experimental manipulation, among other things -- though I hesitate to even call it a study.

It&#039;s not even correlation, because there are no data.  It&#039;s just a chart.  Correlation is the linear relationship between two continuous variables.  So not only can causation not be drawn, it&#039;s not even a correlation!

A Caltech student, really?  One would think that a student at a school like that would have more important things to do than conduct an observational study that a second grader could critique.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other people have pointed out the glaringly painful &#8220;methodological flaws&#8221; in this study &#8212; Hemant, shame on you for calling it an experiment, which requires random assignment and an experimental manipulation, among other things &#8212; though I hesitate to even call it a study.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not even correlation, because there are no data.  It&#8217;s just a chart.  Correlation is the linear relationship between two continuous variables.  So not only can causation not be drawn, it&#8217;s not even a correlation!</p>
<p>A Caltech student, really?  One would think that a student at a school like that would have more important things to do than conduct an observational study that a second grader could critique.</p>
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		<title>By: cautious</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119278</link>
		<dc:creator>cautious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119278</guid>
		<description>For those folks in ACT land (if I had stayed in Illinois, I woulda been part of that exclusive club), google sat act conversion.

For the record, the books I have on my Facebook as favourites that are on this list are &lt;em&gt;Brave New World&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;Animal Farm&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;Fight Club&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;1984&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;The Lord of the Rings&lt;/em&gt;, and &lt;em&gt;Dune&lt;/em&gt;.  So make your guesses what my SAT score was, based on the data!

I do find the points raised above to be pretty valid, I think the scientific utility of this is pretty ...non-existant.  But hey it makes for a neat graph.  According to the graph the mean student at my undergrad reads &lt;em&gt;Freakonomics&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;100 Years of Solitude&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;Lolita&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;Crimes and Punishment&lt;/em&gt;.  Good for them.  Too bad some of those folks who slacked off on the SAT read &lt;em&gt;Atlas Shrugged&lt;/em&gt;.  

This makes my undergrad look good, as compared to the undergrads at my current institution, who are apparently above the mean if they read the Bible.  

Oh wait did this study make any distinction between different levels of education, or are PhD and BA students all lumped together as students of a college/university?

All criticism aside, I&#039;d like to congratulate a Caltech student on collecting data from 1352 schools.  Way to carry on the Caltech tradition of being a geek.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those folks in ACT land (if I had stayed in Illinois, I woulda been part of that exclusive club), google sat act conversion.</p>
<p>For the record, the books I have on my Facebook as favourites that are on this list are <em>Brave New World</em>, <em>Animal Farm</em>, <em>Fight Club</em>, <em>1984</em>, <em>The Lord of the Rings</em>, and <em>Dune</em>.  So make your guesses what my SAT score was, based on the data!</p>
<p>I do find the points raised above to be pretty valid, I think the scientific utility of this is pretty &#8230;non-existant.  But hey it makes for a neat graph.  According to the graph the mean student at my undergrad reads <em>Freakonomics</em>, <em>100 Years of Solitude</em>, <em>Lolita</em> and <em>Crimes and Punishment</em>.  Good for them.  Too bad some of those folks who slacked off on the SAT read <em>Atlas Shrugged</em>.  </p>
<p>This makes my undergrad look good, as compared to the undergrads at my current institution, who are apparently above the mean if they read the Bible.  </p>
<p>Oh wait did this study make any distinction between different levels of education, or are PhD and BA students all lumped together as students of a college/university?</p>
<p>All criticism aside, I&#8217;d like to congratulate a Caltech student on collecting data from 1352 schools.  Way to carry on the Caltech tradition of being a geek.</p>
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		<title>By: Bad</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119271</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119271</guid>
		<description>A lot of this list seems to reflect what kids are made to read in school vs. would have to have sought out on their own.  Fahrenheit 451, for instance, is a pretty common reading assignment book, and so is the Color Purple.  Atlas Shrugged and Lolita almost never appear in a high school or college curriculum, on the other hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of this list seems to reflect what kids are made to read in school vs. would have to have sought out on their own.  Fahrenheit 451, for instance, is a pretty common reading assignment book, and so is the Color Purple.  Atlas Shrugged and Lolita almost never appear in a high school or college curriculum, on the other hand.</p>
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		<title>By: limadean</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119257</link>
		<dc:creator>limadean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/01/25/does-religious-literature-make-you-less-intelligent/#comment-119257</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Mriana said,

What if you took the ACT? I didn’t take the SAT. Didn’t need to for this uni. I don’t know what the equivalents are for the ACT and SAT. :(&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I was going to ask the exact same question!  Although I wouldn&#039;t say my school is a prestigious one, there are an awful lot of school that use the ACT, and like Mriana, I never took the SAT.
Also, the problem with facebook is that you can never really be sure if people are telling the truth.  I&#039;d be willing to bet that people going to &quot;better&quot; schools are more likely to lie and say they&#039;ve read books that everyone else at the school says they&#039;ve read (and then wikipedia it to get the plot points).  And about the classics in the list - people might be reading these for class.  Often, it&#039;s a book they wouldn&#039;t choose for themselves but then end up liking, and then they can say it&#039;s a favorite (I guess that still counts, but it messes up the argument that &quot;smarter&quot; people are just more motivated to read
Also - what about those with private profiles?  Most people I know don&#039;t leave their profile unlocked and public, so does that change the results?  Do only the really slow and the biggest show-offs leave their profiles public?
Basically,  I wouldn&#039;t trust college students to tell the truth.  It&#039;s kind of a crapshoot.  Besides, some of us are just so busy reading voraciously that we  don&#039;t have time to list all the awesome books we&#039;re reading.
...I just looked and he does also have average ACT scores listed.  Not sure if he used those or SATS, though.  Many of the schools listed don&#039;t even have an average SAT score, and if they do, and generally take more ACT scores, wouldn&#039;t that be a smaller pool of people that the average SAT score comes from?
I have officially spent too much time on this.
For the record, my favorite book is probably &quot;Cat&#039;s Eye&quot; by Margaret Atwood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Mriana said,</p>
<p>What if you took the ACT? I didn’t take the SAT. Didn’t need to for this uni. I don’t know what the equivalents are for the ACT and SAT. <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p></blockquote>
<p>I was going to ask the exact same question!  Although I wouldn&#8217;t say my school is a prestigious one, there are an awful lot of school that use the ACT, and like Mriana, I never took the SAT.<br />
Also, the problem with facebook is that you can never really be sure if people are telling the truth.  I&#8217;d be willing to bet that people going to &#8220;better&#8221; schools are more likely to lie and say they&#8217;ve read books that everyone else at the school says they&#8217;ve read (and then wikipedia it to get the plot points).  And about the classics in the list &#8211; people might be reading these for class.  Often, it&#8217;s a book they wouldn&#8217;t choose for themselves but then end up liking, and then they can say it&#8217;s a favorite (I guess that still counts, but it messes up the argument that &#8220;smarter&#8221; people are just more motivated to read<br />
Also &#8211; what about those with private profiles?  Most people I know don&#8217;t leave their profile unlocked and public, so does that change the results?  Do only the really slow and the biggest show-offs leave their profiles public?<br />
Basically,  I wouldn&#8217;t trust college students to tell the truth.  It&#8217;s kind of a crapshoot.  Besides, some of us are just so busy reading voraciously that we  don&#8217;t have time to list all the awesome books we&#8217;re reading.<br />
&#8230;I just looked and he does also have average ACT scores listed.  Not sure if he used those or SATS, though.  Many of the schools listed don&#8217;t even have an average SAT score, and if they do, and generally take more ACT scores, wouldn&#8217;t that be a smaller pool of people that the average SAT score comes from?<br />
I have officially spent too much time on this.<br />
For the record, my favorite book is probably &#8220;Cat&#8217;s Eye&#8221; by Margaret Atwood.</p>
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