The last few chapters of Job emphasise the hopelessness of puny Earthlings trying to understand nature.

Perhaps, though it’s really difficult to go much further back than the Bible without getting entirely into the realm of speculation.

There are stone-age cultures in the world, and people from cultures which were recently stone-age, who still carry their oral traditions from thousands of years ago. Some of this history has been preserved in ways that predate writing… without going into speculation.

I’m not sure I agree, but in any case, I am not talking about the Bible. I’m talking about the origin of religion and belief in god(s), which came a LONG time before the Bible.

Perhaps, though it’s really difficult to go much further back than the Bible without getting entirely into the realm of speculation. The Epic of Gilgamesh is about as far back as you can go in terms of written religious documents (only 500-800 years prior to Moses), and that’s not primarily focused on explaining nature either. Prior to written records we only have theories and speculation about how religion evolved (assuming that it did… though I think the hypothesis that religion did in fact “evolve” is somewhat suspect as well).

What about human nature? Doesn’t every single character in the Bible explain human nature? Isn’t it meant for us to understand ourselves, which is a huge part of nature from our perspective?

Sure, I suppose. But I didn’t take it that that was the kind of thing Donna was talking about. She seemed to have in mind the sorts of explanations covered by the natural sciences, not the social “sciences”. That’s what I was referring to.

What about human nature? Doesn’t every single character in the Bible explain human nature? Isn’t it meant for us to understand ourselves, which is a huge part of nature from our perspective? What is “all kinds of other stuff” about if not to know ourselves and how Jesus sets us free from our own condition that we get ourselves into?

writerdd:

It may be a small part of religion today, but from what I see, it is the only reason religion and god were invented. Yes, in case someone is going to ask, I do think man created god.

I agree with you that man created religion. But nobody “created” God. God just is. and always was.

Donna

P.S. Always interesting to talk to you!

It may be a small part of religion today, but from what I see, it is the only reason religion and god were invented.

And yet, again, there is so little of it in the Bible. One chapter in Genesis pretty much covers the “where it all came from” question, and the rest is about all kinds of other stuff. It just doesn’t seem to me like explaining nature is really the main point. If that were the “only reason” Judaism was invented, you’d think there’d be a little bit more of it in there.

If our ancestors hadn’t been so ignorant about the operation of the universe and the world around them, they never would have made up invisible intelligences to explain it to themselves, and we would not be having this discussion today.

You know, I hear this said all the time, and yet I’m also struck by the fact that there is so little in the way of “explanations” of the natural world in the Bible. I’m starting to think that it is rather misleading to assume that the primary reason people (whether ancient or modern) believe in God is merely to “explain” natural phenomenon. That seems like the smallest part of religion in my experience.