Perhaps they are the ones without self-control or willpower and really want the choice taken away from them before they set foot in the hotel.

I agree. this is so juvenille what they are doing

he took seriously the evangelical teaching that Christians should not entertain any lustful thoughts, or masturbate. As a result, the poor guy was absolutely tormented by lustful thoughts and resulting guilt 24/7 during all his college years.

Finally, he went to a sensible Christian minister who told him to get a couple of magazines and “take care of the situation” whenever necessary. Which of course completely alleviated his fixation.

Oh god, does that sound familiar.

‘Course, I eventually got someone to help me “alleviate” my “fixation”, which is one reason I hang around here nowadays…

As a young man, he took seriously the evangelical teaching that Christians should not entertain any lustful thoughts, or masturbate. As a result, the poor guy was absolutely tormented by lustful thoughts and resulting guilt 24/7 during all his college years.

It’s a problem in the Jewish world as well, among the ultra-Orthodox (the black hat and coat crowd). They’re militant about gender segregation, so they’re never properly socialized, and, as a result, they become obsessed with sex – their rabbis are always enacting some new rule or restriction concerning it. A few weeks ago, in New York, they banned a concert that was going to feature an Orthodox singer – nothing salacious; think “Christian rock” – because there was going to be “mixed seating”! It goes on all the time.

Fortunately, our fundies are much smaller in number and don’t, for the most part, get involved in legislation or the political process (outside of Israel), so they’re easier to ignore than their Christian counterparts.

just before I left church, there was an increasing emphasis on the problem of “porn addiction.” there was even a ministry created to address it, with accountability partners and everything. so maybe this is an expansion of those programs.

Yeah, probably so. There was a big emphasis on “porn addiction” in my church also. They called it something like, “Every Man’s Burden.” (I guess they haven’t figured out that there’s a growing industry marketing porn directly to women …)

Dave Dickerson, a former evangelical and a storyteller, did a great segment on This American Life a few years ago (episode 332). As a young man, he took seriously the evangelical teaching that Christians should not entertain any lustful thoughts, or masturbate. As a result, the poor guy was absolutely tormented by lustful thoughts and resulting guilt 24/7 during all his college years.

Finally, he went to a sensible Christian minister who told him to get a couple of magazines and “take care of the situation” whenever necessary. Which of course completely alleviated his fixation. It’s really a wonderful story – both hilarious and poignant, as are all of his tales of his Christian past.

I don’t suppose there are any Unitarians in Tenn? We’re loaded with them up here.

It’s been a month since I looked it up, so I was off a by $10. Yeah, maybe we’ll check out a United Methodist church or something. I just really don’t feel like sitting through a few hours of how we have to pray together, attend church, and trust Jesus to avoid a divorce, just to save $60.

I just looked it up here:

http://marriage.about.com/cs/marriagelicenses/p/tennessee.htm

It says you can actually save $60 with counseling. There’s a form you have to have the therapist complete. He/she can be a licensed therapist or an “official representative of a religious institution”. Surely there must be a liberal Christian somewhere in Tennessee!

$100 – damn. The most it costs up here in Mass is $50, and that’s in Boston. I think if you go out to the rural parts of the state, it’s still only a few bucks.

And, of course, they project it onto everyone else – if I’m no damn good, then you’re no damn good, either.

I believe this psychological projection is quite telling. Ever wonder why many churches condemn mainstream therapy and offer their own “Christian” counseling? For free?

(Incidentally, the only reason I’m not getting premarital counseling with my fiancée is because I live in Tennessee and cheap/free nonreligious premarital counseling just doesn’t exist here. This really pisses me off, too, because the state gives you $50 off your marriage license if you complete counseling.)

Fundies think people are no damn good. That’s because they’re using themselves as a reference.

I agree with this, and I think it’s extremely important; it’s the key to understanding them. The history of Christianity has been shaped, largely, by personalities afflicted with pathologically low self-esteem – Augustine, Luther, Calvin, etc. – and it remains a haven for them. Their self-loathing is so profound that the idea that they are born inherently deserving of eternal damnation makes perfect sense to them – to the extent that, when we say we don’t believe it, they insist that we’re denying the obvious; we simply don’t want to believe it. It’s the only rationalization they have. And, of course, they project it onto everyone else – if I’m no damn good, then you’re no damn good, either.

I think there is a kind of “moral imbecility” in evidence. When they ask us, in all sincerity, “If there is no hell, what’s to prevent people from behaving immorally?”, it’s because they fear that, without the threat of damnation, they would behave immorally. (Of course, this is the point at which a Christian chimes in, “Without God, who defines morality?”)

I’ve heard televangelists say, a number of times, that the single greatest obstacle they encounter in “bringing people to Christ” is their conviction that they are so bad that God could never forgive them. And how many times have we heard fundie ministers say, “In your heart, you know you’re a sinner.”? I think this is deeply significant.

is porn a legitimate form of entertainment; maybe anything is if people are wiling to waste their resources on it.