Comments on: Matt Taibbi Goes to a Christian Retreat

By: Josie Pena

Josie Pena — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 23:57:28 +0000

I went to an encounter this weekend, and I was very blessed…until you have dealt with demonic forces as I have, you are in the dark. This was my first encounter, with this ministry, I am familiar with this type of deliverance practice so it was not a surprise. As I read the responses to this atheist who cannot be objective on something he has no clue about…it is sad…intellectuals are blinded by their intellect and cannot understand what they cannot comprehend. Someday, the truth will come to light…and at that time, intellect will be of no consequence.

By: Richie

Richie — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 10:39:26 +0000

John “fatman” Hagee continues his rants and hatred of anything and everything. I try to tell christians that Hagee is divorced and remarried; he was committing adultery while pastoring a church; after the divorce, he married his paramour: hence, he is living in adultery (according to some christians).
Hagee does say that one can get into heaven without accepting Jesus. This allows him to bask in the approval of the Israeli government, when he brings loads of his followers and hangers-on to the Holy Land.
I once heard Hagee preach against… gluttony !! I’m not kidding. Obviously, he doesn’t have any mirrors in his house.
Please study these televangelists and see exactly what they’re like. Most of them are con artists, liars, hypocrites, often described as “the used car salesmen of religion.”

By: absent sway

absent sway — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:18:02 +0000

From my experience (raised in a small fundamentalist church till age 15 and the rest of high school and college in a large, mainstream evangelical church), there is something to Taibbi’s observations but of course it is not all that is going on. In regards to the truth of his observations, I cannot deny that there is often a streak of anti-intellectualism at work in these groups which is compounded by altered psychological states (especially at retreats, and Taibbi describes it fairly well when he says “…the ecstasy of beating to the same…heart with a roomful of like-minded folks”). In regards to the rest of the story, as Red Wine Gums noted, retreats and Sunday services are not the time to be shouting dissent. If someone in the congregation is having doubts, etc. she’ll struggle through services and retreats and let off some steam in the car with her family on the way to Denny’s after the service, or tell a trusted friend in small group Bible study later. This is often accompanied by scrutinizing oneself for the plank in one’s own eye, and praying for a good attitude, etc. There is a high value placed on loyalty and respect for authority, to the point where asinine things can be spewed from the pulpit long before they are addressed, and are sometimes glossed over in the way one would excuse a rude relative–”Aw, you know Grandpa didn’t really mean it when he said you were fat!” People with lingering doubts usually choose to leave rather than risk causing discord.

By: 5ive

5ive — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:24:26 +0000

I went to see a sermon about how only God can provide a basis for morals at a local Mega-church.
The experience was similar to Taibbi’s in that there was no way or apparent desire to question what the pastor said. The pastor only talks at people. There is no intellectual exchange. There is only one person, telling all 5000 other people what to do, what to think and how to think it. The pastor told all those people that “darwintists” (whom he equates with atheists) can only believe that “Might equals right”. He had it printed on big screens and had his congregation write it out on what looked like mock-lecture notes that were handed out before the service. The message that came across was that without god, morals change and you cannot trust someone whose morals change on a whim or who thinks only along hte lines of “might equals right”. Outside of the gross misrepresentation of the theory of evolution, the congregation left likely to think that atheists have no base for morals and cannot be trusted.
To be fair, I have engaged in conversation with this pastor and am trying to help him see what his preachings are leaving people with and he is open to listening (which is impressive in itself and should be commended). We will see how all that goes…
But really, church is not about learning, in fact it is entirely unfavorable to learning as there is no way to question. Not only is there no way to question, the questioning is greatly discouraged. As Taibbi pointed out, the people at a lot of churches are there in an emotional mood, not a logical or objective one. They don’t want to learn, they want to be told they are right. Cognitive dissonance, FTW!

By: Karen

Karen — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:56:42 +0000

cipher:

I certainly don’t think it’s a bad thing. I just wish that they could get in touch with their emotions without adopting a belief system that condemns everyone who disagrees with them to hell.

Agreed.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:50:38 +0000

That said, if a few people do think independently, what are they doing in one of these a megachurches? And why aren’t they speaking up (or leaving) when they hear things they disagree with? It’s safe to say that at least in these extreme examples, most people present are happy to be there, and agree with the pastors most of the time.

My guess would be that they prefer quietly listening to some things they don’t agree with over being cast out of their community and probably even out of their family.

Right. I went to a particular “non-denominational” (but nationally organized) church through my junior-high and high-school years. The reason I started going to the church was friends from a private school that I transferred out of. I then got into the whole church thing. Went to the summer camps. But I never raised my hands during worship, because I never felt it. I really hated worship because of the way it made me feel. Now I believe everyone fakes it and deludes themselves to some extent. I’m proud to say that I never did in that regard.

So there are lots of reasons people go to church. Community and fellowship are just a couple. And some people just love their God and think the rest is “just details”.

I have found that the people most likely to leave the church were the ones who are more rational from the get go. These people either believe EVERYTHING about their religion. And if a few things don’t make sense, seem wrong, or are just obviously inaccurate, then their entire faith is legitimately called into question in their own minds. The other type think that faith and God are the important parts, and they just don’t bother with the details.

By: cipher

cipher — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:31:44 +0000

I bet there are a lot more of you than the people that a lot of us call nutcases, and it’s just the case that the extremists make more noise. You wouldn’t believe how many adults go along with these things, how many of them will swallow their doubts or questions and keep going, keep putting money in the church’s till. I’m really surprised adults go along with this. I guess thats why they are all pressing for a theocracy..they obviously don’t like freedom too much. I don't see it as a matter of extremists vs. non-extremists. I think it's just a matter of degree.

By: Beowulff

Beowulff — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:41:00 +0000

That said, if a few people do think independently, what are they doing in one of these a megachurches? And why aren’t they speaking up (or leaving) when they hear things they disagree with?

My guess would be that they prefer quietly listening to some things they don’t agree with over being cast out of their community and probably even out of their family.

By: Sabrina

Sabrina — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:28:03 +0000

I played a game with one of the Cornerstone people of for every verse there’s its inverse

Now, that sounds like a fun game:) But not if it ends with you being burned at the stake:(

If the church says to avoid someone–you do it. I know details of what the church “permits” for dating between single members of the church, and it’s a total control game.

I’m really surprised adults go along with this. I guess thats why they are all pressing for a theocracy..they obviously don’t like freedom too much.

By: Aquaria

Aquaria — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:08:12 +0000

I live in San Antonio, not far from the infamous Cornerstone church. It’s almost impossible not to know someone who attends its screeching hate circus…er, services.

I think it’s valid to say not everyone swallows what Hagee says whole…but it’s really difficult to remain positive when you actually hear his congregants talk about religion or Hagee. It’s “Pastor says this” or “Pastor thinks we mustn’t.” It’s not, as with some of the smaller fundie churches, “The Bible says.” The many Cornerstone members I’ve known don’t read the bible, really. They have one, of course, and will tell you what it says (according to Hagee) when it comes to general things…but they haven’t actually read it. Now all those apologetics books you see in bible bookstores? Those they have read. Cornerstone junkies are never without one.

Some of the more “studious” ones will have the apologetic with a bible opened beside it. Don’t let it fool you. They are looking to see if the reference is accurate, not the meaning of the verse (from their interpretation) or even its context. They don’t see any contradicting verses. Not ever. I played a game with one of the Cornerstone people of for every verse there’s its inverse. I won the argument, but got the distinct honor of having her deacon or whatever they call the bloody fools declare me a heretic and possibly possessed by Satan. And, after pronouncing her church’s assessment of me, she avoided me henceforth.

I don’t think y’all realize how powerful a hold this church gets over its congregants. If the church says to avoid someone–you do it. I know details of what the church “permits” for dating between single members of the church, and it’s a total control game.

You wouldn’t believe how many adults go along with these things, how many of them will swallow their doubts or questions and keep going, keep putting money in the church’s till.