Comments on: Bye Bye, Neumanns?

By: Celeste

Celeste — Fri, 15 May 2009 07:13:06 +0000

I think it’s incredibly unfair for parents to indoctrinate their children with their own brand of religion. I guess they’re too afraid to let them make up their own minds when they’re old enough.

Most parents of course believe that it is their duty and right to set their children on the “right path” in life. And that’s fine, it is their right but when it comes to life and death situations and these kids have no voices, I think Child Protective Services should step in. I know that CPS aren’t perfect in any way but the life of a child necessitates their involvement when the parents can’t think rationally.

By: Madeline Neumann and Why Society Should Stop Insulating Religion From Rational Scrutiny « The Frame Problem

Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:48:39 +0000

[...] Tip for Neumann story: Friendly Atheist Posted in Atheism, Ethics & Morality, Free Speech and Censorship, Politics, Religion, Society [...]

By: Darryl

Darryl — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:08:41 +0000

This is one of those cases that raises an insoluble problem for freedom of religion. These folks were practicing their religion and the state did not prevent them; then they let their daughter die from ‘natural causes’ and the state wants to throw them in jail. What they did, they did out of faith, not some evil intent. This is the absurdity of setting aside reason for oneself while living in a society founded upon reason and law. When religion becomes overt it clashes with the state. This is why the fundamentalists are fated to fail.

By: Karen

Karen — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:55:46 +0000

I guess the Christian guy didn’t remember the saying: “God helps those who help themselves.”

That saying doesn’t come from the bible; I believe it’s from Poor Richard’s Almanac.

Most fundamentalists repudiate that saying. In fact, I heard several preachers speak against it specifically back in the day. The idea that we would “rely on our own understanding” is a negative one in churches and sects that insist on making people helpless so they will trust god (and the church) for everything.

Obviously, these people are from a fringe group. Most Christians, even strict fundamentalists, are fine with medical treatment. Of course, they’ll credit god if someone gets healed (rather than science or the doctors), but at least they’re okay with modern medicine.

By: Xeonicus

Xeonicus — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:52:55 +0000

I guess the Christian guy didn’t remember the saying: “God helps those who help themselves.” If there is snow on your side walk, you can’t pray it away, you gotta put your back into it. If your child is sick, you can’t pray it away, you gotta get off your butt and take them to a doctor. Prayer has as much to do with curing the sick as it does with getting that snow off your sidewalk.

By: The Ridger

The Ridger — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:11:54 +0000

Wow. This guy actually thinks doctors are part of God’s mysterious plan to test the true believers? So anyone who goes to a doctor isn’t a True Believer?

By: The Neumann case « Twisted One 151’s Weblog

The Neumann case « Twisted One 151’s Weblog — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:53:01 +0000

[...] here]. As Hemant Mehta of Friendly Atheist notes in his post on the topic, this is why the charges were reckless homicide, rather than abuse or neglect. Possibly related [...]

By: Jim RL

Jim RL — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:07:40 +0000

Did he just say that medical science works, but true believers should risk letting their kids die at the negligent hands of god? This was a diabetic coma, the girl could have been treated if they got medical attention when she got her fever, or when her legs turned blue, or when she could no longer use the bathroom on her own, or when she finally passed out. I’m sorry, but even if “true belief” would heal my child I wouldn’t risk god deeming me unworthy.

When your best defense is “I let my child die, so god will love me.” then basically you’ve confessed to negligent homicide. They admit medicine works, but didn’t use it because they wanted to gain favor with their imaginary god. They sacrificed their daughter to their god.

By: Ted Goas

Ted Goas — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:05:43 +0000

How do you even get through to these people? People who believe in
faith and their God so blindly that they’re willing to put the lives
of others at stake. These parents might think this death is God’s
will, not a lack of insulin.

I hope this example serves as an example for those considering a similar path…

By: Vincent

Vincent — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:23:05 +0000

Jesus did not send anyone to a doctor because a) he cured them himself, and b) there weren’t any doctors (and c- he probably never existed).

I recommend anyone in Boston visit the mother church of the Church of Christ Science and see their museum. They give a good description of how Mary Eddy lived a crappy, pain filled life and doctors were no help. You learn that doctors were no help because medicine was crap back then. They were still bleeding people and amputating without anesthetic for chrissake. They didn’t have the germ theory of disease. Medical treatment didn’t work any better than thinking happy thoughts (a.k.a. praying).
So it made sense that when she stopped going to doctors and prayed, and by chance happened to get better, she would credit the prayer for it.

But now is not then. Now medical treatment VASTLY increases your chance of recovery from injury or disease. Go to a doctor you morons or people will die.