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	<title>Comments on: Law School and Faith</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 17:50:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Maria</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-171048</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 21:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-171048</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Now who would ever accuse “spiritual” types of being inflexible????&lt;/blockquote&gt;

actually there are many that aren&#039;t.  you can be spiritual and not religious-it&#039;s the religion part that&#039;s inflexible.

that being said, maybe this study is true on the average, but from personal experience, when I was going through college and grad school I was not only spiritual but quite religious, and I did very well academically. and I&#039;ve had several religious friends who have done quite well in law school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Now who would ever accuse “spiritual” types of being inflexible????</p></blockquote>
<p>actually there are many that aren&#8217;t.  you can be spiritual and not religious-it&#8217;s the religion part that&#8217;s inflexible.</p>
<p>that being said, maybe this study is true on the average, but from personal experience, when I was going through college and grad school I was not only spiritual but quite religious, and I did very well academically. and I&#8217;ve had several religious friends who have done quite well in law school.</p>
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		<title>By: Anfractuous</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170595</link>
		<dc:creator>Anfractuous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 06:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170595</guid>
		<description>&quot;preexisting and inflexible sense of right and wrong&quot;

Now who would ever accuse &quot;spiritual&quot; types of being inflexible????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;preexisting and inflexible sense of right and wrong&#8221;</p>
<p>Now who would ever accuse &#8220;spiritual&#8221; types of being inflexible????</p>
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		<title>By: Darryl</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170327</link>
		<dc:creator>Darryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 22:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170327</guid>
		<description>Stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid.</p>
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		<title>By: miller</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170324</link>
		<dc:creator>miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 22:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170324</guid>
		<description>Ditto to Barefoot Bum.  It&#039;s not called grasping at straws, it&#039;s called good scientific practice.

I skimmed through the paper.  He got his results by comparing predicted first-year gpa with the actual first-year gpa.  The predicted gpa comes from LSAT scores and the gpa in previous undergrad programs.  Higher spirituality actually &lt;em&gt;positively&lt;/em&gt; correlated with undergrad gpa.  But it also correlates negatively with LSAT scores.  As a result, the predicted first-year gpas are about the same accross all the groups.  But the highest spirituality group had significantly poorer actual first-year gpa.

It seems to me that undergrad gpas are positively correlated with spirituality because such people are more likely to come from religious universities, where they perhaps have inflated gpas.  That&#039;s why predicted first-year gpas are inflated for the high-spirituality group.  The only question that remains is why the high spirituality group has a much lower gpa.  The paper itself suggests that is because of the law school&#039;s &quot;religious affirmative action&quot;.  This also would have shown up in the predicted gpas if it weren&#039;t for the inflated undergrad gpas.

Sounds reasonable to me!  The fact that the author, Scott Taylor, already suggested this possibility in the paper tells me that he&#039;s on the ball, scientifically speaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ditto to Barefoot Bum.  It&#8217;s not called grasping at straws, it&#8217;s called good scientific practice.</p>
<p>I skimmed through the paper.  He got his results by comparing predicted first-year gpa with the actual first-year gpa.  The predicted gpa comes from LSAT scores and the gpa in previous undergrad programs.  Higher spirituality actually <em>positively</em> correlated with undergrad gpa.  But it also correlates negatively with LSAT scores.  As a result, the predicted first-year gpas are about the same accross all the groups.  But the highest spirituality group had significantly poorer actual first-year gpa.</p>
<p>It seems to me that undergrad gpas are positively correlated with spirituality because such people are more likely to come from religious universities, where they perhaps have inflated gpas.  That&#8217;s why predicted first-year gpas are inflated for the high-spirituality group.  The only question that remains is why the high spirituality group has a much lower gpa.  The paper itself suggests that is because of the law school&#8217;s &#8220;religious affirmative action&#8221;.  This also would have shown up in the predicted gpas if it weren&#8217;t for the inflated undergrad gpas.</p>
<p>Sounds reasonable to me!  The fact that the author, Scott Taylor, already suggested this possibility in the paper tells me that he&#8217;s on the ball, scientifically speaking.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Clawson</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170311</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Clawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 22:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170311</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Sounds like a lot of grasping at straws…&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Why?

They all seem like plausible reasons to me, and I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if the answer were &quot;a little of all of the above&quot;. In particular, the second and third one seemed most likely to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Sounds like a lot of grasping at straws…</p></blockquote>
<p>Why?</p>
<p>They all seem like plausible reasons to me, and I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if the answer were &#8220;a little of all of the above&#8221;. In particular, the second and third one seemed most likely to me.</p>
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		<title>By: cipher</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170286</link>
		<dc:creator>cipher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 21:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170286</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;A spirituality index measured 1) frequency of attendance at religious worship, 2) frequency of discussion of religion with others from different faith traditions, 3) the presence and strength of the connection between God and morality, and 4) the presence and strength of the view that entry into the legal profession is a divine calling.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It seems pretty arbitrary to me to define &quot;spirituality&quot; in these terms. It&#039;s a superficial view, and a decidedly Catholic one at that (&quot;divine calling&quot;). A mystic would define it differently, and a practitioner of an Asian religion might not even acknowledge the concept.

I can&#039;t be bothered to read the paper, but does he consider the possibility that the non-&quot;spiritual&quot; students are simply smarter?

Occam, put down the razor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>A spirituality index measured 1) frequency of attendance at religious worship, 2) frequency of discussion of religion with others from different faith traditions, 3) the presence and strength of the connection between God and morality, and 4) the presence and strength of the view that entry into the legal profession is a divine calling.</p></blockquote>
<p>It seems pretty arbitrary to me to define &#8220;spirituality&#8221; in these terms. It&#8217;s a superficial view, and a decidedly Catholic one at that (&#8220;divine calling&#8221;). A mystic would define it differently, and a practitioner of an Asian religion might not even acknowledge the concept.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t be bothered to read the paper, but does he consider the possibility that the non-&#8221;spiritual&#8221; students are simply smarter?</p>
<p>Occam, put down the razor.</p>
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		<title>By: kwandongbrian</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170275</link>
		<dc:creator>kwandongbrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 21:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170275</guid>
		<description>The answer is obvious: the best lawyers have no souls - this is well known.  Naturally, they will score lower in spirituality.  If you are spiritual and have ethics and morals (and these are just obviously linked), you will not do well in law school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The answer is obvious: the best lawyers have no souls &#8211; this is well known.  Naturally, they will score lower in spirituality.  If you are spiritual and have ethics and morals (and these are just obviously linked), you will not do well in law school.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170255</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 20:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170255</guid>
		<description>Oh man...nothing pisses me off more than people who use causal language (like &quot;affects&quot;) in a correlational study.  That&#039;s a HUGE red flag right there.  I&#039;ll tear into the methodological flaws of the study later...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh man&#8230;nothing pisses me off more than people who use causal language (like &#8220;affects&#8221;) in a correlational study.  That&#8217;s a HUGE red flag right there.  I&#8217;ll tear into the methodological flaws of the study later&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Barefoot Bum</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170220</link>
		<dc:creator>The Barefoot Bum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 19:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/05/24/law-school-and-faith/#comment-170220</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Sounds like a lot of grasping at straws…&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually not. A good scientist must consider all competing explanations, at least all the ones that she can think of and that might be even marginally plausible. Further experimentation can decide between them.

See &lt;a href=&quot;http://wwwcdf.pd.infn.it/~loreti/science.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Cargo Cult Science&lt;/a&gt;, by Richard Feynman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Sounds like a lot of grasping at straws…</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually not. A good scientist must consider all competing explanations, at least all the ones that she can think of and that might be even marginally plausible. Further experimentation can decide between them.</p>
<p>See <a href="http://wwwcdf.pd.infn.it/~loreti/science.html" rel="nofollow">Cargo Cult Science</a>, by Richard Feynman.</p>
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