George Carlin Dead at 71

The brilliant comedian George Carlin died of heart failure Sunday night in Los Angeles. He was admitted into a hospital earlier in the afternoon for chest pains.

george-carlin.jpg

In the past few decades, there was no one who even came close to being as incisive and edgy about taboo topics as Carlin. His monologues are timeless and you’ll be seeing them replayed over and over in the next week.

These two bits are probably my favorites:



There was no one else who could satirize religion like he did.

The first time I listened to his stand-up was when I was in high school, shortly after becoming an atheist myself. Once I heard him, I was addicted. I had to find as much of his material as I could. I memorized his routines, I printed out my favorite bits (and hid them from my family), I downloaded every one of his albums.

When I needed confirmation that I was correct in my thinking about atheism, books weren’t always available. But his material was easy to find online and they helped me understand that I wasn’t alone in my thinking.

You knew his death would come sooner rather than later, but his passing leaves a void that won’t be filled anytime soon.

Feel free to share any memories or links to your favorite bits in the comments.


[tags]atheist, atheism[/tags]

  • Mriana

    I just now read about this through a NYTimes email news update. I was shocked. I thought he had a few more good years in him still. :( He’ll be sorely missed.

    I liked the one where he said doing drugs would get you some “f****n’ angels”. That one really cracked me up, as well as the two you chose, Hemant. Those are good too.

  • http://jimloomis.deviantart.com Jimmy

    My first experience with Carlin was with Shiny Time Station. I absolutely loved his ability to tell stories to us young people. He had a voice that could be soothing as well as harsh, which made him so easy to listen to. His stand up surprised me and made me feel at home with my non-religiousness. I owe Mr. Carlin a great deal of respect, as he raised me from a child, and turned me into a realistic man.

    I had no father, but George Carlin did enough for me to treat him as such.

    Mr. Carlin will be missed.
    We love ya GC!

  • Scorpious

    I thought he was on Shining Time Station. He was one of the best parts of that show.

    He lived the way he wished and died a hero to many around the world.

  • Darryl

    Call me crazy but I think he was the Shakespeare of comedy. He was damn funny, hiis timing was perfect, he had an encyclopedic memory, he was eloquent, and most of all, he was drop-dead serious with his humor, always taking on the most important issues of the time, and doing what comedians are called to do–to get us to laugh at ourselves and in so doing reflect on and critique ourselves. A remarkable man who brought such joy to me. Hemant, those clips are priceless.

  • http://www.glenntwiddle.com.au Glenn Twiddle

    Click for a great pic of me and George Carlin

    Thanks for the memories George. You are the man. For one never afraid of dying I hope and trust you were happy with your journey.

    Glenn Twiddle

  • Sarah

    Oh no!!!!!!!!! This is the first I’ve heard. I am so deeply saddened by this. I know he was getting up there, but I’m still very shocked. I loved him so much… probably more than half of my atheism related quotes from good ol’ George. Damn :( I hope his family is dealing well, he was a great man.

  • Daniel

    This news saddens me. George Carlin was my favorite stand up comedian hands down. I can’t help but to wish that I could have had a grandfather like him. He talked with such intelligence, he was strong in his non beliefs lol and I applaud him. I can remember when I was about 16 and I watched Carlin and it changed my view points on religion. Rest In Peace George Carlin, my only regret is not seeing your thought provoking, comedic brilliance in person…

  • Nick

    :( I’ve been a Carlin fan for years! I’ve even got a couple of his book on audio so I can listen to them at work. I’ve been listening to him a lot lately too. I got a few downloads you could say.

    One of my favourite bits: “When it comes to bullshit, nothing can hold a candle to religion.” (it’s a bit longer than that but you get the point). Then of course there’s his take on the 10 commandments. Of course There Is No God bit where he claims to be a sun worshiper. At least you can see the sun! I fell the same! Especially living in Australia. :)

    Carlin died at a half decent age at least. We lost Bill Hicks way too young.

    So now we have only David Cross left in this category, there may be other’s but I don’t know them. Hopefully he sticks around for a while and starts doing stand up again. He’s more like Hicks than Carlin though.

    We can always hope that someone will come along again but I’m not holding my breath. :(

    George Carlin, the man who’s name never ends… George or ge or ge or ge…

    We’re really going to miss you George!

  • richard w pepper

    A man who told it as it is .He could have been the leader of this Country ,but we all know he would NOT put up with the bull shit right.He made us look at our lives with humor .No one was perfect in his world including him self, and he made us see it in a fun filled hour show.I am heart broken,and will miss George greatly.
    He will always be the greatest comedian this world has ever seen. i know some where he’s looking at us all with a great big smile. Thanks George Carlin for all the joy you have given me.

  • http://micketymoc.bluechronicles.net/ micketymoc

    His Catholic upbringing came out in his early material, and those bits resonated with me – especially the part where he talks in great detail about Church teachings on mortal sin. (start at about 3:30.) I laughed so hard because it took me back to theology class in Catholic high school…

    “‘Cause that’s what they taught us! It’s what’s in your mind that counts! Your intentions! That’s how we’ll judge you – what you want to do! Mortal sin: had to be a grievous offense, sufficient reflection, and full consent of the will. You had to wanna!

    “In fact, wanna was a sin all by itself! ‘Thou shall not wanna!’ If you woke up one morning and said, ‘I’m gonna go down to Seventh Avenue and commit a mortal sin,’ save your cab fare; you did it, man!

    “It was a sin to want to feel up Ellen, it was a sin to plan to feel up Ellen, it was a sin to figure out a place to feel up Ellen, it was a sin to take Ellen to the place to feel her up, it was a sin to try to feel her up, and it was a sin to feel her up! It was six sins in one feel, man!”

  • http://jimloomis.deviantart.com Jimmy

    @Nick: I totally agree with you and feel good knowing that Carlin lived so long. At least we had him for quite a while! Hicks on the other hand died way too early, and as a result, his material was stolen by a hack named Dennis Leary.

    It sucks when the great ones die (Chris Farley, John Candy, Bill Hicks, George Carlin) because we’re left with a bunch of hacks (Dennis Leary, Carlos Mencia aka Ned Holness, Dane Cook).

  • Alycia

    I heard this on NPR this morning. We’ve certainly lost “one of us”. My hope is that someone will be curious about his work and listen to some of his routines and maybe broaden their thinking a bit.

  • Louis Doench

    Man….
    Living in Cincinnati I missed so many chances to see him live. His first wife was from Dayton, so he always played the Taft on his tours. I was always busy.
    Man…

    When I was a teenager, I hated rock music. So while my brother was buying Whitesnake and GnR, I was sucking up George Carlin, Bill Cosby and Richard Pryor. I could probably recite most of the bits from his Little David years albums.
    He was one of my heroes. He was one of the reasons I tried valiantly to break into stand up in the 90′s. He made me laugh and he made me think, two of the greatest gifts one person can give another.

    If you get a chance to see the interview he did with John Stewart on Comedy Central a few years ago, (i’m willing to bet they’ll be re showing it), do so. It’s a great hour of getting inside the head of one of the great thinkers of our time.

    I know he didn’t believe he’d be “looking down on us” after his passing, but I’m gonna indulge my monkey imagination and pretend he is for a little while.

  • TXatheist

    I was no where near as blunt as him. I thank him for his work and points of view that helped me get to this point. RIP Mr. Carlin.

  • Danielle

    Most will honor him as a Comedian…..and there is not doubt that he was funny as hell….but I think it was his spot on social comentaries that really set him apart from all the rest. He will be sorely missed.

  • http://www.bolingbrookbabbler.com William

    I saw George Carlin in concert back in my freshman year in college. I was in the marching band at the time, and I was hanging out at a radio station’s tailgater. At one point, a DJ started walking around the band members, asking if they could play “Stairway to Heaven” on the radio. Two others tried it, but they couldn’t. I stepped up, and volunteered. After thinking about it for a bit, I played part of it on my trumpet. (I stopped before the big solo. I didn’t have the range for that.)

    My prize was a ticket to George Carlin’s show that night. He put on his usual show, and even expanded on his list of words you can’t say on the radio.

    I’ll miss him, and I’m pretty sure he’s not looking up or down at us. Which is how he would have wanted it.

  • Susan

    This really ages me, but my first memories of Carlin are when he played two recurring characters on summer TV variety show–Al Pouch the Hippy Dippy Mailman, and Al (something) the Hippy Dippy Weatherman. It must have been in the mid-60s.

    He’ll be missed. Thanks for everything, George. Hope you took all your stuff with you.

  • Mike J.C.

    When I think of Carlin, I picture him on stage dancing a little jig after making a very poignant yet smart-ass statement. The crowd is roaring over what he said, painfully aware that he made them laugh while at the same time calling them out on their own hypocrisy and shortcomings. That little dance is Carlin recognizing “the line”, crossing it and dancing around in that area of truth that lies just beyond it.

  • John

    I wonder if he thinks those comedy bits are funny now, enjoy the warm weather George!

  • http://intj-mom.livejournal.com INTJ Mom

    I was shocked and saddened to open my inbox and read the NY Times headline this morning. George was definitely my favorite comedian, I watched him even before I became an atheist. Like others have said here – it was his talent for making scathing social commentaries in a way that made me both laugh and think.

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  • Milena

    My first experience with Carlin was through your blog. After that, I couldn’t get enough, so I showed his stuff to two of my atheist friends and we became instant fans. Throughout this last high-school year, whenever I got too stressed out, or felt down because of something, I would listen to Carlin’s routines on YouTube, especially Pro-Life is Anti-Woman, Golf and Homelessness, or the one about Natural Disasters. Carlin could take a brilliant comedy routine and inject a message in it, and that is not something that I’ve seen very often. He will be missed.

  • kirk

    I just started following your blog about a week ago, and I was shocked/saddened to hear this new when I woke up today. Like you, George had a decent impact on my atheism. When I was really at the point where I was trying to find who I was, as a person, his words spoke to me like few others have. He’ll be missed.

  • Jeff Satterley

    I’m glad I went and saw him a few years ago on the Life is Worth Losing tour in Buffalo. He just left rehab for addictions to vicodin and wine, and I thought to myself, “I better see this guy live before he kills himself.” That was probably one of my favorite experiences of recent memory.

    While his passing still seems too soon, I a thankful that he lived as long as he did, and gave us so much wonderful comedy over 50 years. One thing that has come out of this for me, and I bet many others, is that since learning of the news only a few hours ago, I have been recounting the many memories I have of Carlin: when I first heard one of his albums, some of my favorite bits (The Ten Commandments, Place for my Stuff), and seeing him live for the first (and only) time. I hope that we all spend some time remembering all of these wonderful memories of him.

    Although an atheist, Carlin also said that when he passes on, he’d like to look down and watch the demise of human civilization (GC’s favorite pastime), or some kind of “heavenly CNN”. George was a great voice against convention and the establishment, and the world is a much better place because of him (possibly to his dismay).

    “Shit Piss Cunt Fuck Cocksucker Motherfucker and Tits” ~G.C.

  • Jeff Satterley

    I’m glad I went and saw him a few years ago on the Life is Worth Losing tour in Buffalo. He just left rehab for addictions to vicodin and wine, and I thought to myself, “I better see this guy live before he kills himself.” That was probably one of my favorite experiences of recent memory.

    While his passing still seems too soon, I am thankful that he lived as long as he did, and gave us so much wonderful comedy over 50 years. One thing that has come out of this for me, and I bet many others, is that since learning of the news only a few hours ago, I have been recounting the many memories I have of Carlin: when I first heard one of his albums, some of my favorite bits (The Ten Commandments, Place for my Stuff), and seeing him live for the first (and only) time. I hope that we all spend some time remembering all of these wonderful memories of him.

    Although an atheist, Carlin also said that when he passes on, he’d like to look down and watch the demise of human civilization (GC’s favorite pastime), or some kind of “heavenly CNN”. George was a great voice against convention and the establishment, and the world is a much better place because of him (possibly to his dismay).

    “Shit Piss Cunt Fuck Cocksucker Motherfucker and Tits” ~G.C.

  • Jeff Satterley

    I forgot to mention, in case anyone doesn’t know, Carlin is going to be presented with the Mark Twain Award for American Comedy in November. Should be a great tribute to him, wish he could be there for it.

  • James Toland

    I bet George is not laughing now and it pains me that a man with as much intelligence as he had, had no wisdom to back it up with. Now he is out of the presence of the God he mocked for eternity. He got what he wanted in the end, but I bet if he could go back and accepts Jesus’ free gift of salvation he would. Be careful what you wish for. I liked you George, it is a pity you chose poorly.

  • http://www.cognitivedissident.org/ cognitive dissident

    I would have commented sooner, but I had to listen to his “Complaints and Grievances” routine again and transcribe a few bits…I got to see him on that tour, and he killed! Carlin said this about dissent over the invasion of Afghanistan (before Bush gave up hunting bin Laden and went after Saddam Hussein instead):

    Here’s the way it works: The primate brain says, “Give peace a chance.” The mammalian brain says, “Give peace a chance, but first let’s kill this motherfucker.” And the reptilian brain says, “Let’s just kill the motherfucker, go the peace rally, and get laid.”

    Carlin excoriated parents who plaster their cars with those “My child is an honor student” bumper stickers:

    Here’s a bumper sticker I’d like to see: “We are the proud parents of a child whose self-esteem is sufficient that he doesn’t need us promoting his minor scholastic achievements on the back of our car.”

    Or: “We are the proud parents of a child who has resisted his teacher’s attempts to break his spirit and bend him to the will of his corporate masters.”

    Here’s something realistic: “We have a daughter in public school who hasn’t been knocked up yet.”

    “We have a son in public school who hasn’t shot any of his classmates yet…but he does sell drugs to your honor student. Plus, he knocked up your daughter.”

    Thanks for all the laughs, George…even Thomas the Tank Engine sucked a little bit less when you did the narration.

  • http://www.bernerbits.com Derek

    James.

    Listen to yourself.

    “I’m just so torn up that George Carlin is burning in Hell like he voluntarily chose. Too bad he can’t change his mind now.”

    I’m really boggled that you think you’re being so compassionate here when you’re really just being an asshole.

    The complex neural algorithm that was George Carlin’s personality has ceased. His body will be laid to rest or cremated, and his personality will live on in our memories. Why isn’t that enough for you?

  • http://www.wordsfromtheway.com/between-the-trees Jake Meador

    John and James – When you have something kind to say, please come back. Until then I would appreciate it if you guys would refrain from spewing your heartless unchristian hatred here or anywhere else. Comments like yours are an embarrassment to Christians and to the God you claim to worship.

    Was sad to read about this, Carlin always struck me as a thoughtful and intelligent comedian whose routines always provoked further thought. He gave a speech on political correctness a few years ago that one of my English teachers had us watch in high-school, it was excellent and I’ve enjoyed and appreciated Carlin ever since. As an English major I have tremendous admiration for anyone who respects language and uses it well, and Carlin was one of the best. RIP George.

  • Alycia

    He got what he wanted in the end.

    And what would that be, oh Wise One?

  • http://heathendad.blogspot.com/ HappyNat

    Now he is out of the presence of the God he mocked for eternity.

    Not true. I heard he recanted on his deathbed.

  • http://www.cogspace.com/ Katie

    Not true. I heard he recanted on his deathbed.

    I get the feeling you were trying to be funny here, but it came across, to me at least, as simply rude. While it’s entirely possible, I find it incredibly improbable. Even if he did, irrational panic brought on by imminent death hardly speaks to a person’s actual views.

    I’d decry these rude and crass “religious” comments with as much viciousness as they deserve, but the last thing I want to do is further soil the mood.

    I felt awful when Gary Gygax died earlier this year, but this is overwhelming.

    George Carlin lived an honest life. He had his faults, but everyone does. Compared to many, his faults were minor. His virtues are more interesting: he entertained many of us from childhood to adulthood. He was an icon in the seventies, and he remains an icon today. He made light of subjects no one else would touch. Jokes about rape? Honestly. He was beyond talented. He was courageous.

    His sharp blend of humor and left-field social commentary is something I doubt will ever be seen again in such a pure form. I know I’m not the only one whose life would not have been quite the same without Georgeorgeorgeorge…

    As for whether or not he got what he wanted in the end…

    I’m sick and tired of hearing “pull the plug on me.” Honestly. “Oh, pull the plug on me. If I’m ever like that, if I’m comatose, if I’m like a vegetable, pull the plug on me.” Well F*CK YOU! LEAVE MY PLUG ALONE!

    I wanna live! That’s the whole secret of life! NOT DYING! Gimme everything you got! Tubes, plugs, probes, cords, electrodes, IVs – turns out I’ve got a hole I didn’t know I had? Put a f*ckin’ plug in it!

    Vegetable, sh*t, I don’t care if I look like an artichoke!

    SAVE my ass!

    — George Carlin (quoted from memory)

    Note: While I feel terrible about censoring a Carlin quote, I’m posting this from behind a firewall at my place of employment, and I don’t want our filter to start blocking Friendly Atheist for “indecency”. :eyeroll:

    According to the medical report, yes, he got exactly what he wanted, to the extent that it was possible. And I’m glad. It’s just a shame they couldn’t save him. The fact that such a good person could go (somewhat) prematurely for such minor transgressions is to me, if nothing else, at least a testament to something George earnestly believed:

    There is no God.

    Goodbye, George. You will be sorely missed, but you will never be forgotten. You will live on in the memories of all the thousands of fans you educated.

    Next time I see someone in a “move, follow, or get out of the way” shirt, I’ll crack their skull open with a shovel for you.

    — Katie

  • http://heathendad.blogspot.com/ HappyNat

    Katie,

    Sorry to cause distress. Of course my comment was a joke. If you haven’t heard the creationist argument that Darwin recanted on his deathbed consider yourself lucky. I’ve heard it so many times I tend to respond to idiotic arguments with a ” recanted on their deathbed” line.

    However, I also do it to try and make a point to idiots like James who said Carlin was burning in hell. IF James is right about the afterlife how does he know Carlin did not recant? His god should be powerful enough to save him right? To revel in the eternal torment of anyone is smugness which riled up my snarky. My apologies if it offended.

  • TXatheist

    Thanks for clearing that up HappyNat. And we all know George is actually a little cooler right now. Being 6 feet underground the temperature is roughly 65 degrees. If he’s cremated he’ll be room temperature where ever his ashes are spread(thanks for composting). Until then he’s in the morgue and the ice box is very chilly. Just the facts, no myths involved :)

  • Desert Son

    Haven’t had a chance to visit back here in a long time, and just returned in time to find out George Carlin died. I’m sad, but I’m also lucky to carry so many fond-to-downright hilarious memories of his comedy. If you can’t laugh while journeying through this world, you’ll probably go crazy, seems to me (though there’s a chance you’ll go crazy anyway). Sympathies to his family and fans in this time of grief, and to honor the man, I recommend playing some of his old routines.

    And laughing.

    No kings,

    Desert Son

  • Carlos

    Since the times when I had to hide my cassette tapes and listen to them only with headphones on, lest I offend my parents and lose the tapes forever, I’ve loved George Carlin. Brilliant, ballsy, and really damn funny. Strange thing is, not until just now, seeing the “tribute” post here, did I realize how important he was in my formative years. This may just be my own misty-eyed tribute, but I’m realizing how instrumental he was in reaffirming my lack of faith, offering an example of how, as a teenage atheist, I was not alone.
    I’m surprised I’m having as much trouble with this as I am. Never met him, never saw him live, but I really, really miss him already.

    - Carlos

  • Jen

    I used to watch him on Shining Time Station as a kid. As an adult, I grew to love his sense of humor. RIP, George, and all the best to your family.

    I wonder if he thinks those comedy bits are funny now, enjoy the warm weather George!

    Make an effort not to suck at life anymore, ok?

  • http://micketymoc.bluechronicles.net/ micketymoc

    Let’s not feed the trolls… theirs are exactly the kinds of mindsets that Carlin mocked. I bet he wouldn’t be offended, just amused. Let’s try to do likewise.

    More classic Carlin:

    “The most unfair thing about life is the way it ends… What do you get at the end of it? Death!…

    “I think the life cycle is all backwards. You should die first, get it out of the way. Then you live in an old age home. You get kicked out when you’re too young, you get a gold watch, you go to work. You work forty years until you’re young enough to enjoy your retirement. You do drugs, alcohol, you party, you get ready for high school. You go to grade school, you become a kid, you play, you have no responsibilities, you become a little baby, you go back into the womb, you spend your last nine months floating…

    and you finish off as an orgasm.

  • JohnB

    Katie said, and I quote with pleasure:

    His sharp blend of humor and left-field social commentary is something I doubt will ever be seen again in such a pure form. I know I’m not the only one whose life would not have been quite the same without Georgeorgeorgeorge…

    Well said Katie, all of it. And thanks for the Carlin quote. I laughed till my side hurt, just like George would have wanted it.

  • http://mygoddlessdrama.blogspot.com/ Stacy

    I have a fond GC memory. When I was in seventh grade, which was what, 1985 or so… he had recently done that routine with the other 40 words or so you cant say on TV? The one with twat. balls. etc. I thought it was hilarious. I guess I had a filthy mind even back then when it comes to humor. so I listened to the clip my friends older brother had on a casette tape, and I painstakingly wrote it all out by hand. All 40 or 50 nasty, horrifying and disgusting words. Then I brought it to school to show my friends. And I got caught with it. This forever gave me the reputation in school as being a “nasty girl” with the teachers, when in reality, I was just a comedian waiting to be born!

    The hubby and I are distraught over the passing of this true icon of american comedy and a role model to many Atheists, like myself. :(
    .

  • Keith

    It’s a shame, he’s gone. George Carlin always made me laugh … I remember watching his routines on HBO with Dad … good times. Thanks, George.

  • http://www.vardaman.org/ Stewart Vardaman

    In 2003 I broke my neck, and had to leave my beloved Colorado for Jackson, MS to recuperate with family. I was in a neck halo for six months, couldn’t leave the house much, and generally miserable.

    Several months into this ordeal, my dear friend Dave heard Carlin was to appear at a Denver book store to promote When Will Jesus Bring The Pork Chops. Dave got a signed copy and mailed it to me out of the blue. He knew I was a big Carlin fan, and it was a real boost to both read the book, and that my friends were thinking of me. Surely, this act of grace was brought on by Carlin praying to Joe Peschi. I’ll keep that book forever.

    Carlin was in Denver about two months ago, and I (now 100% healed and back in Co) had the pleasure of watching him live for the first time. It was worth the $85 ticket and the $6 beers. :)

    I saw comic Greg Girardi in Denver two weeks ago. If the “Vardaman curse” theory is correct, someone should tell Greg he only has six weeks to live. :)

    I’ll miss you George!

  • J.DANIELS

    My brother called me with the sad news that George was gone this morning. I’ve been in a bad funk all day. He was my hero. To read what these so called christians are saying is heartbreaking , but expected. To swallow and follow,whether old doctrine or new propaganda, is a weakness still dominating the human mind. George was a teacher and I will miss him the rest of my days. Good bye old friend

  • http://2000lies.blogspot.com Stewart Paterson

    I think I was about 13 or 14 when I first heard the 7 words. I was living in Zimbabwe (Rhodesia back then) and a friend had a clip on a cassette tape. It was just a short section of the 7 words routine. I had never heard anything so rude. I quickly expanded it into my own list.

    I only recently (in the last 5 years) rediscovered Carlin and was overjoyed to discover his unbelief.

    A big “thank-you” George.

  • mytwocents

    George was an intelligent man, great with words and very funny at times.
    im sure he was a great father and human being, I feel very sad knowing that he went to meet the God that he not only didnt believe in but ridiculed i take no pleasure in his death, and anyone who claims to be a christian and takes pleasure in this should question his own salvation and beg for forgiveness God sent his son into the world not to condem the world but that the world through him might be saved… that comes right after the famous John 3:16 we all see held up at ball games

    I pray that George in his last moments cried out to his savior and is in heaven right now, wishing he could come back and tell us all about it.

  • http://pinkprozac.typepad.com/theaword/ Kristi

    I started watching George Carlin when I was young. My mom liked him and we had HBO.
    I just saw him perform for the first time last year.
    I loved his bit on ‘things you don’t see’.
    hysterical.

  • http://micketymoc.bluechronicles.net micketymoc

    This is not a slam at you personally, mytwocents, but the genius of George Carlin lay in his exposition of religion as a “big bullshit story”, among other (less savory) things.

    You can always hope that Carlin had a sudden conversion in his last moments, if it makes you feel better. Though, judging from Carlin’s work, he probably wouldn’t have found any comfort in such an act, and he would have laughed at your hollow attempt at consolation.

  • EKM

    The one thing that George Carlin said that really affected how I view the world was not in one of his comedy routines (I honestly do not think I have seen or heard too much of his comedy) but a comment he made during an interview. I think he was on “Later with Bob Costas” or something like that. He said that although this was a bit of an oversimplification, Democrats care about people’s rights, while Republicans care about property rights.

    That was about 20 years ago, and it still holds up.


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