I can’t speak for John, but many of the ex-Christians I know, including myself, explored more liberal versions of our faith, but just came the realization that we just, plain didn’t believe anymore. If I believed in God in any variation I would certainly go to great lengths to understand him and his wishes for me.

By the way, were you aware that Baylor has a Department of Jewish Studies?

Yes, though I think there’s only one, maybe two profs in it.

What is actually an example of undirected change within religion becomes a display of god’s goodness.

Assuming that it is “actually” undirected change begs the question.

They would simply say that God has chosen to reveal his nature to us in stages, over time, not all at once. Theologians over the centuries (Augustine is the first I am aware of) have referred to this as “Divine Accommodation” in the sense that God accommodates his revelation to our own ability to comprehend it.

It’s comic how the changing conceptions of gods that people have had over time are transformed by apologists into the intentions of gods. What is actually an example of undirected change within religion becomes a display of god’s goodness. It’s a win-win: problem solved and God gets the glory! There is no mooring that restrains the imaginations or rationalizations of believers. What they want to believe they invent, and if they are challenged, they invent another Deus Ex Machina, and there is nothing to rein them in.

By capitalizing “Orthodox” are you referring specifically to “Eastern Orthodox” or do you just mean something like “traditional Christianity” (whatever that is) or “conservative evangelical Christianity”?

Sorry – I meant Orthodox Jews. They think we were strict monotheists from Abraham on. They simply ignore the evidence, and they have an arsenal of rationalizations, just as the Christians do. We have our fundamentalists too, Mike – but there are fewer of them, and they tend to be xenophobic, so they’re easier to ignore. At least, they used to be; the problem is, over the past few decades, their influence over all of Orthodoxy has become so pervasive and insidious that Orthodoxy as a whole has moved decidedly to the right.

By the way, were you aware that Baylor has a Department of Jewish Studies?

I tend to agree – but I can introduce you to any number of Orthodox apologists who would argue with you.

By capitalizing “Orthodox” are you referring specifically to “Eastern Orthodox” or do you just mean something like “traditional Christianity” (whatever that is) or “conservative evangelical Christianity”?

At any rate, I’m too know plenty of Christians who don’t think we should read the Bible through a historical lens and don’t want to admit that the Judeo-Christian faiths have been continually evolving throughout the millenia, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with them.

However, I also know plenty of conservative evangelical scholars who would have no problem saying that the Patriarchs did not have the same conception of God that Christians do today. They would simply say that God has chosen to reveal his nature to us in stages, over time, not all at once. Theologians over the centuries (Augustine is the first I am aware of) have referred to this as “Divine Accommodation” in the sense that God accommodates his revelation to our own ability to comprehend it.

I tend to agree – but I can introduce you to any number of Orthodox apologists who would argue with you.

Of course, because it’s all about translation and interpretation. The Jehovah’s Witnesses will tell you they have the one true translation and interpretation of the bible, which just happens to differ from Greek Orthodoxy or Catholicism which also have the one true interpretation of the biblical scripture.

They all start with the assumption that the judaism that arose in Canaan was monotheistic, and then translate and interpret the historical scriptures to affirm that belief, discarding any “heretical” scriptures that do not affirm that conclusion. It’s no surprise that this happens – we all suffer from confirmation bias – but it does sometimes give me pause to see the extent to which people will discard reason, logic, and experience to affirm what they wish to be true.

Indeed. The Hebrew scriptures certainly seem to describe an evolving understanding of the nature of God. Abraham and the early Israelites were almost certainly henotheists, not strict monotheists (though it would rather quickly turn into monolatrism). And while the Torah contains the seeds of a more robust monotheism, it’s not until the later prophets that this really gets fully expressed.

I tend to agree – but I can introduce you to any number of Orthodox apologists who would argue with you.

If Judaism were historically monotheistic that would be fine. What should be troubling for the rabbi and pastor alike are those passages in the dead sea scrolls and septuagint that suggest the origins of judaism were polytheistic in nature and received a later editing to support a monotheistic orthodoxy.

Indeed. The Hebrew scriptures certainly seem to describe an evolving understanding of the nature of God. Abraham and the early Israelites were almost certainly henotheists, not strict monotheists (though it would rather quickly turn into monolatrism). And while the Torah contains the seeds of a more robust monotheism, it’s not until the later prophets that this really gets fully expressed.