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	<title>Comments on: Can You Give Some Advice to This Teacher?</title>
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	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:01:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: amiable</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-216110</link>
		<dc:creator>amiable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-216110</guid>
		<description>Kate: I&#039;m not an English teacher, and this person is. So it is not pointless to bring up that there were several noticeable grammatical errors. For an English teacher that is a bit odd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kate: I&#8217;m not an English teacher, and this person is. So it is not pointless to bring up that there were several noticeable grammatical errors. For an English teacher that is a bit odd.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-213238</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-213238</guid>
		<description>You are probably too liberal for the community.  It&#039;s a combination of atheism, GSA, and most likely dress, hairstyle, and how outward you were in your opinions.  Did you have &#039;heated&#039; exchanges regarding atheism?  Did any others help support you with the GSA?  Did people consider you the &#039;hippie.&#039;

Odds are they are smart enough not to outright say why you got the axe.  Even if you know, you have to prove it.  It becomes he said she said.

It seems to me you should take the experience as a lesson about the real world.  If I were a principal of a school in a conservative area, then the outright atheist who wants to start up a GSA would be nothing but headaches... regardless of my own feelings.  It may not be so much about what you believe, but that you were causing others extra work.  You may not fully realize how others perceive you, especially if you don&#039;t know why you were fired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are probably too liberal for the community.  It&#8217;s a combination of atheism, GSA, and most likely dress, hairstyle, and how outward you were in your opinions.  Did you have &#8216;heated&#8217; exchanges regarding atheism?  Did any others help support you with the GSA?  Did people consider you the &#8216;hippie.&#8217;</p>
<p>Odds are they are smart enough not to outright say why you got the axe.  Even if you know, you have to prove it.  It becomes he said she said.</p>
<p>It seems to me you should take the experience as a lesson about the real world.  If I were a principal of a school in a conservative area, then the outright atheist who wants to start up a GSA would be nothing but headaches&#8230; regardless of my own feelings.  It may not be so much about what you believe, but that you were causing others extra work.  You may not fully realize how others perceive you, especially if you don&#8217;t know why you were fired.</p>
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		<title>By: Tao Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212738</link>
		<dc:creator>Tao Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212738</guid>
		<description>There is a difference between being fired because of your religion and being fired because of the actions you took because of your religion.  

If the administration didn&#039;t say you were fired because you&#039;re an atheist, why did they say you were being fired?  


I also found this amusing....
&lt;blockquote&gt;... no teachers would be &lt;strong&gt;loosing&lt;/strong&gt; their jobs ...&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a difference between being fired because of your religion and being fired because of the actions you took because of your religion.  </p>
<p>If the administration didn&#8217;t say you were fired because you&#8217;re an atheist, why did they say you were being fired?  </p>
<p>I also found this amusing&#8230;.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230; no teachers would be <strong>loosing</strong> their jobs &#8230;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Polly</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212618</link>
		<dc:creator>Polly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212618</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Whatever happens, I hope we can hear how it all turns out.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yeah, please keep us posted. 

We&#039;ll be praying for ya&#039;!...j.k :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Whatever happens, I hope we can hear how it all turns out.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, please keep us posted. </p>
<p>We&#8217;ll be praying for ya&#8217;!&#8230;j.k <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: NYCatheist</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212610</link>
		<dc:creator>NYCatheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212610</guid>
		<description>Whatever happens, I hope we can hear how it all turns out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever happens, I hope we can hear how it all turns out.</p>
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		<title>By: Pseudonym</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212455</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudonym</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 06:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212455</guid>
		<description>By the way, this may also be the sort of thing that Americans United takes an interest in, as well as the ACLU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, this may also be the sort of thing that Americans United takes an interest in, as well as the ACLU.</p>
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		<title>By: Transplanted Lawyer</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212453</link>
		<dc:creator>Transplanted Lawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212453</guid>
		<description>Slut raises a good point about personality being a significant factor in employment.  If you&#039;re an a-hole, you&#039;re much more likely to get yourself fired.  And you will likely never know if you have a reputation for being an a-hole.

But with that said, I think that you have much more to lose than to gain in a face-to-face meeting with the people who fired you, at least if you&#039;re even willing to consider the idea of a lawsuit later.  If they&#039;re lawyered up (and they will be) the only reason they&#039;d have to agree to such a meeting would be to elicit admissions from you about your own faults and their own non-discriminatory intent, which they will use against you later.  

Sadly, that leaves you having to make a decision based on incomplete information.  But such is life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slut raises a good point about personality being a significant factor in employment.  If you&#8217;re an a-hole, you&#8217;re much more likely to get yourself fired.  And you will likely never know if you have a reputation for being an a-hole.</p>
<p>But with that said, I think that you have much more to lose than to gain in a face-to-face meeting with the people who fired you, at least if you&#8217;re even willing to consider the idea of a lawsuit later.  If they&#8217;re lawyered up (and they will be) the only reason they&#8217;d have to agree to such a meeting would be to elicit admissions from you about your own faults and their own non-discriminatory intent, which they will use against you later.  </p>
<p>Sadly, that leaves you having to make a decision based on incomplete information.  But such is life.</p>
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		<title>By: Slut</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212418</link>
		<dc:creator>Slut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212418</guid>
		<description>Seems to me before I&#039;d fly off the handle and go hiring a lawyer I&#039;d ask for a meeting with the administrator and find out what the issue is, and what I could have done differently/better. Maybe you&#039;d learn something. Performance reviews don&#039;t always tell you everything.

I might also have a friend call us pretending to be doing a background check and see what the school says. Document/record whatever is said.

Like it or not, personality DOES affect your employability. This may not even have anything to do with your political or religious views. It&#039;s just a question of &quot;gets along well with others.&quot;

Of course if you do find out the issue is your political/religious views, sue the pants off the bastards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me before I&#8217;d fly off the handle and go hiring a lawyer I&#8217;d ask for a meeting with the administrator and find out what the issue is, and what I could have done differently/better. Maybe you&#8217;d learn something. Performance reviews don&#8217;t always tell you everything.</p>
<p>I might also have a friend call us pretending to be doing a background check and see what the school says. Document/record whatever is said.</p>
<p>Like it or not, personality DOES affect your employability. This may not even have anything to do with your political or religious views. It&#8217;s just a question of &#8220;gets along well with others.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course if you do find out the issue is your political/religious views, sue the pants off the bastards.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron in Houston</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212291</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron in Houston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212291</guid>
		<description>Dammit, I hate it when I answer my question just after I ask it.

From the EEOC website:

&lt;blockquote&gt;1. What is “religion” under Title VII?

Title VII protects all aspects of religious observance and practice as well as belief and defines religion very broadly for purposes of determining what the law covers. For purposes of Title VII, religion includes not only traditional, organized religions such as Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism, but also religious beliefs that are new, uncommon, not part of a formal church or sect, only subscribed to by a small number of people, or that seem illogical or unreasonable to others. An employee’s belief or practice can be “religious” under Title VII even if the employee is affiliated with a religious group that does not espouse or recognize that individual’s belief or practice, or if few – or no – other people adhere to it. Title VII’s protections also extend to those who are discriminated against or need accommodation because they profess no religious beliefs.

Religious beliefs include theistic beliefs (i.e. those that include a belief in God) as well as non-theistic “moral or ethical beliefs as to what is right and wrong which are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views.” Although courts generally resolve doubts about particular beliefs in favor of finding that they are religious, beliefs are not protected merely because they are strongly held. Rather, religion typically concerns “ultimate ideas” about “life, purpose, and death.” Social, political, or economic philosophies, as well as mere personal preferences, are not “religious” beliefs protected by Title VII.

Religious observances or practices include, for example, attending worship services, praying, wearing religious garb or symbols, displaying religious objects, adhering to certain dietary rules, proselytizing or other forms of religious expression, or refraining from certain activities. Whether a practice is religious depends on the employee’s motivation. The same practice might be engaged in by one person for religious reasons and by another person for purely secular reasons (e.g., dietary restrictions, tattoos, etc.).

Discrimination based on religion within the meaning of Title VII could include, for example: not hiring an otherwise qualified applicant because he is a self-described evangelical Christian; a Jewish supervisor denying a promotion to a qualified non-Jewish employee because the supervisor wishes to give a preference based on religion to a fellow Jewish employee; or, terminating an employee because he told the employer that he recently converted to the Baha’i Faith.

Similarly, requests for accommodation of a “religious” belief or practice could include, for example: a Catholic employee requesting a schedule change so that he can attend church services on Good Friday; a Muslim employee requesting an exception to the company’s dress and grooming code allowing her to wear her headscarf, or a Hindu employee requesting an exception allowing her to wear her bindi (religious forehead marking); an atheist asking to be excused from the religious invocation offered at the beginning of staff meetings; an adherent to Native American spiritual beliefs seeking unpaid leave to attend a ritual ceremony; or an employee who identifies as Christian but is not affiliated with a particular sect or denomination requests accommodation of his religious belief that working on his Sabbath is prohibited. &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dammit, I hate it when I answer my question just after I ask it.</p>
<p>From the EEOC website:</p>
<blockquote><p>1. What is “religion” under Title VII?</p>
<p>Title VII protects all aspects of religious observance and practice as well as belief and defines religion very broadly for purposes of determining what the law covers. For purposes of Title VII, religion includes not only traditional, organized religions such as Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism, but also religious beliefs that are new, uncommon, not part of a formal church or sect, only subscribed to by a small number of people, or that seem illogical or unreasonable to others. An employee’s belief or practice can be “religious” under Title VII even if the employee is affiliated with a religious group that does not espouse or recognize that individual’s belief or practice, or if few – or no – other people adhere to it. Title VII’s protections also extend to those who are discriminated against or need accommodation because they profess no religious beliefs.</p>
<p>Religious beliefs include theistic beliefs (i.e. those that include a belief in God) as well as non-theistic “moral or ethical beliefs as to what is right and wrong which are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views.” Although courts generally resolve doubts about particular beliefs in favor of finding that they are religious, beliefs are not protected merely because they are strongly held. Rather, religion typically concerns “ultimate ideas” about “life, purpose, and death.” Social, political, or economic philosophies, as well as mere personal preferences, are not “religious” beliefs protected by Title VII.</p>
<p>Religious observances or practices include, for example, attending worship services, praying, wearing religious garb or symbols, displaying religious objects, adhering to certain dietary rules, proselytizing or other forms of religious expression, or refraining from certain activities. Whether a practice is religious depends on the employee’s motivation. The same practice might be engaged in by one person for religious reasons and by another person for purely secular reasons (e.g., dietary restrictions, tattoos, etc.).</p>
<p>Discrimination based on religion within the meaning of Title VII could include, for example: not hiring an otherwise qualified applicant because he is a self-described evangelical Christian; a Jewish supervisor denying a promotion to a qualified non-Jewish employee because the supervisor wishes to give a preference based on religion to a fellow Jewish employee; or, terminating an employee because he told the employer that he recently converted to the Baha’i Faith.</p>
<p>Similarly, requests for accommodation of a “religious” belief or practice could include, for example: a Catholic employee requesting a schedule change so that he can attend church services on Good Friday; a Muslim employee requesting an exception to the company’s dress and grooming code allowing her to wear her headscarf, or a Hindu employee requesting an exception allowing her to wear her bindi (religious forehead marking); an atheist asking to be excused from the religious invocation offered at the beginning of staff meetings; an adherent to Native American spiritual beliefs seeking unpaid leave to attend a ritual ceremony; or an employee who identifies as Christian but is not affiliated with a particular sect or denomination requests accommodation of his religious belief that working on his Sabbath is prohibited. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Ron in Houston</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212289</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron in Houston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/2008/07/30/can-you-give-some-advice-to-this-teacher/#comment-212289</guid>
		<description>OK, before all those internet lawyers go out and spout that it&#039;s discrimination based upon religion (I have no idea), does anyone have a case on point that says atheists are a protected group under the Federal anti-discrimination statute?

I&#039;m not saying its not, but the reason I didn&#039;t tell the person to go contact the EEOC was that I wasn&#039;t sure that atheism qualifies.

I&#039;d love it if any of you folks out in cyberspace could enlighten me.  You&#039;d be doing a valuable public service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, before all those internet lawyers go out and spout that it&#8217;s discrimination based upon religion (I have no idea), does anyone have a case on point that says atheists are a protected group under the Federal anti-discrimination statute?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying its not, but the reason I didn&#8217;t tell the person to go contact the EEOC was that I wasn&#8217;t sure that atheism qualifies.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love it if any of you folks out in cyberspace could enlighten me.  You&#8217;d be doing a valuable public service.</p>
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