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	<title>Comments on: Obama Waffles</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 02:56:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Metro</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/#comment-228600</link>
		<dc:creator>Metro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4559#comment-228600</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Applauds Polly&lt;/em&gt;

@Sudo:

The difference between free speech and hate speech is in rhetorical effect.

Hate speech has as its object the purpose of motivating people to treat some group or person differently for traits that they cannot control or are allowed leeway for by freedom of conscience.

Actually, I don&#039;t think this is hate speech necessarily, except for it&#039;s wingnut-wurlitzer promotion of the &quot;How-do-we-know-he&#039;s-not-a-secret-Muslim-Wouldn&#039;t-that-be-a-disaster&quot; meme and the religious and race-based hate intrinsic to that.

However, hate speech is also about context. And in this case, I think the box (which I haven&#039;t been able to see very well--stupid work computer) is just the tip of the iceberg.

And while I&#039;m not some kind of cartoon expert, I&#039;d say the one on this box does resemble the &quot;pickaninny art&quot; that should have passed along with the Civil Rights Act. Aunt Jemima doesn&#039;t look like that, not since her latest makeover in the nineties, anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Applauds Polly</em></p>
<p>@Sudo:</p>
<p>The difference between free speech and hate speech is in rhetorical effect.</p>
<p>Hate speech has as its object the purpose of motivating people to treat some group or person differently for traits that they cannot control or are allowed leeway for by freedom of conscience.</p>
<p>Actually, I don&#8217;t think this is hate speech necessarily, except for it&#8217;s wingnut-wurlitzer promotion of the &#8220;How-do-we-know-he&#8217;s-not-a-secret-Muslim-Wouldn&#8217;t-that-be-a-disaster&#8221; meme and the religious and race-based hate intrinsic to that.</p>
<p>However, hate speech is also about context. And in this case, I think the box (which I haven&#8217;t been able to see very well&#8211;stupid work computer) is just the tip of the iceberg.</p>
<p>And while I&#8217;m not some kind of cartoon expert, I&#8217;d say the one on this box does resemble the &#8220;pickaninny art&#8221; that should have passed along with the Civil Rights Act. Aunt Jemima doesn&#8217;t look like that, not since her latest makeover in the nineties, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Polly</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/#comment-228274</link>
		<dc:creator>Polly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4559#comment-228274</guid>
		<description>As to why being Muslim might be a drawback in a president: well isn&#039;t it obvious?

A Muslim might allow terrorists to waltz into our country even if they&#039;re KNOWN terrorists to train to take over airplanes and fly them into buildings!
A Muslim might try to introduce theocratic, anti-science curriculum into our schools.
A Muslim might take away our liberties without us even realizing it by eating away at our privacy and suspending habeas corpus. Because, you know, they don&#039;t love freedom like we do.
A Muslim might start using federal money to promote his own religion above others through social programs.

No, we certainly wouldn&#039;t want that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to why being Muslim might be a drawback in a president: well isn&#8217;t it obvious?</p>
<p>A Muslim might allow terrorists to waltz into our country even if they&#8217;re KNOWN terrorists to train to take over airplanes and fly them into buildings!<br />
A Muslim might try to introduce theocratic, anti-science curriculum into our schools.<br />
A Muslim might take away our liberties without us even realizing it by eating away at our privacy and suspending habeas corpus. Because, you know, they don&#8217;t love freedom like we do.<br />
A Muslim might start using federal money to promote his own religion above others through social programs.</p>
<p>No, we certainly wouldn&#8217;t want that.</p>
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		<title>By: absent sway</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/#comment-228019</link>
		<dc:creator>absent sway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4559#comment-228019</guid>
		<description>The image is racially charged because of the stereotype of servile black domestics.  Aunt Jemima is associated with minstrel shows.  Without this old stereotype, it probably wouldn&#039;t have occurred to the seller to associate sophisticated, powerful Barack Obama with cheap breakfast foods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The image is racially charged because of the stereotype of servile black domestics.  Aunt Jemima is associated with minstrel shows.  Without this old stereotype, it probably wouldn&#8217;t have occurred to the seller to associate sophisticated, powerful Barack Obama with cheap breakfast foods.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/#comment-227940</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4559#comment-227940</guid>
		<description>Gah. I live in Franklin. As if Dave Ramsey weren&#039;t reason enough to leave this state...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gah. I live in Franklin. As if Dave Ramsey weren&#8217;t reason enough to leave this state&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: asad</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/#comment-227845</link>
		<dc:creator>asad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 01:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4559#comment-227845</guid>
		<description>Hey Lynn. I noticed you said, &quot;If I were a Muslim I would find it very offensive that everyone seems to think it would be a horrible thing if Obama were Muslim.&quot;

I am a Muslim. I&#039;m not so much offended by the implication that if Obama were Muslim he would be unfit to lead as I am worried about our future in the U.S. It makes me think we have a long way to go before we get the acceptance that others groups in America have. I don&#039;t want any special privileges for Muslims but I think everyone in the U.S. should be able to run for office if they feel they are good candidates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Lynn. I noticed you said, &#8220;If I were a Muslim I would find it very offensive that everyone seems to think it would be a horrible thing if Obama were Muslim.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am a Muslim. I&#8217;m not so much offended by the implication that if Obama were Muslim he would be unfit to lead as I am worried about our future in the U.S. It makes me think we have a long way to go before we get the acceptance that others groups in America have. I don&#8217;t want any special privileges for Muslims but I think everyone in the U.S. should be able to run for office if they feel they are good candidates.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Wingrove</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/#comment-227840</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Wingrove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 01:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4559#comment-227840</guid>
		<description>As the members of the Spanish Olympic Basketball team discovered, having a little fun with the facial characteristics of people with a different genetic makeup can be offensive, even if no offense was intended.

A caricature like you might get at Six Flags is not the same as one that may be used to exaggerate ethnic differences in a country and in an election where racial bigotry has already reared its ugly head. 

Intent has a lot to do with what is OK. This can be notoriously difficult to assess. Unless you have previous history.

Republicans have a track record for cynically exploiting the lurking racism in this country. It is certainly not lost on them that an embarrassingly large percentage of Americans have openly admitted to being so bacwards, ill bred, and hateful that they would never vote for a black candidate. Period.

I am not sure it is ever OK for serial race baiters to go old school as if there were a statute of limitations on stupidity. 

Of course, anyone is free to make any statement or use any kind of art they want but the choices may betray ignoble intentions, reveal ethical shortcomings, and lead to fully justified criticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the members of the Spanish Olympic Basketball team discovered, having a little fun with the facial characteristics of people with a different genetic makeup can be offensive, even if no offense was intended.</p>
<p>A caricature like you might get at Six Flags is not the same as one that may be used to exaggerate ethnic differences in a country and in an election where racial bigotry has already reared its ugly head. </p>
<p>Intent has a lot to do with what is OK. This can be notoriously difficult to assess. Unless you have previous history.</p>
<p>Republicans have a track record for cynically exploiting the lurking racism in this country. It is certainly not lost on them that an embarrassingly large percentage of Americans have openly admitted to being so bacwards, ill bred, and hateful that they would never vote for a black candidate. Period.</p>
<p>I am not sure it is ever OK for serial race baiters to go old school as if there were a statute of limitations on stupidity. </p>
<p>Of course, anyone is free to make any statement or use any kind of art they want but the choices may betray ignoble intentions, reveal ethical shortcomings, and lead to fully justified criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: Felicia Gilljam</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/#comment-227776</link>
		<dc:creator>Felicia Gilljam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4559#comment-227776</guid>
		<description>Rick, it might also be because some of us aren&#039;t even from the US. I&#039;ve seen this debate before and I recognise that there may be something to the &quot;historical perspective&quot; argument - but for how long will that argument be valid? WHEN will it start being ok to draw caricatures of non-caucasians? Just askin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick, it might also be because some of us aren&#8217;t even from the US. I&#8217;ve seen this debate before and I recognise that there may be something to the &#8220;historical perspective&#8221; argument &#8211; but for how long will that argument be valid? WHEN will it start being ok to draw caricatures of non-caucasians? Just askin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Wingrove</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/#comment-227759</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Wingrove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 17:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4559#comment-227759</guid>
		<description>I was one of 4 Atheists who set up an information table outside the Values Voters Conference in DC on Saturday. We were not technically protesting, just discussing Separation of Church and State with anyone who walked up to our table. 

During a slow period, while all the Values voters were inside listening to Sean Hannity harangue Barack Obama for an hour, I wandered down to the vendors area. Most of the stuff there was the same old christianist propoganda. There was lots of christian nationalist literature, lots of Palin gear, some McCain gear, and lots of anti-Obama material. The same old stuff, all pretty disgusting, but hard to get too excited over because, sadly, we are just so used to seeing it. But my jaw dropped when I spotted that big Obama Waffles poster. 

It seems from the comments that some readers were unable to recognize the racism. The same people would also probably miss, or refuse to acknowledge the racism embodied in the word &quot;uppity&quot;. I prefer to think that this may be due to a lack of historical perspective. 

Having grown up in a racially segregated small city in the Texas panhandle in the &#039;50s and &#039;60&#039;s, I immediately recognized the type of racially derisive caricature, known as &quot;pickaninny&quot; art, that was common in those days. There was nothing subtle or innocent about it. Some of the kids here have never seen it so they don&#039;t recognize it. Many of the younger readers were born after MLK was shot and don&#039;t know how awful things were in those days. We had every reason to hope that such things were part of an extended and ugly and shameful period in America that had been thrown on the trash pile of history.

Sadly, no. 

Count on good solid christian republicans to bring it back to rear its ugly head at the ironically named &quot;Values Voters&quot; convention. 

Values? Not any values I need in my life. 

BTW - we also showed this box to a number of black attendees and passers-by to see if we might be off base in seeing racism. Everyone we showed the box to had the same reaction - drop-jawed shock and unanimous agreement that it was indeed flagrantly racist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was one of 4 Atheists who set up an information table outside the Values Voters Conference in DC on Saturday. We were not technically protesting, just discussing Separation of Church and State with anyone who walked up to our table. </p>
<p>During a slow period, while all the Values voters were inside listening to Sean Hannity harangue Barack Obama for an hour, I wandered down to the vendors area. Most of the stuff there was the same old christianist propoganda. There was lots of christian nationalist literature, lots of Palin gear, some McCain gear, and lots of anti-Obama material. The same old stuff, all pretty disgusting, but hard to get too excited over because, sadly, we are just so used to seeing it. But my jaw dropped when I spotted that big Obama Waffles poster. </p>
<p>It seems from the comments that some readers were unable to recognize the racism. The same people would also probably miss, or refuse to acknowledge the racism embodied in the word &#8220;uppity&#8221;. I prefer to think that this may be due to a lack of historical perspective. </p>
<p>Having grown up in a racially segregated small city in the Texas panhandle in the &#8217;50s and &#8217;60&#8242;s, I immediately recognized the type of racially derisive caricature, known as &#8220;pickaninny&#8221; art, that was common in those days. There was nothing subtle or innocent about it. Some of the kids here have never seen it so they don&#8217;t recognize it. Many of the younger readers were born after MLK was shot and don&#8217;t know how awful things were in those days. We had every reason to hope that such things were part of an extended and ugly and shameful period in America that had been thrown on the trash pile of history.</p>
<p>Sadly, no. </p>
<p>Count on good solid christian republicans to bring it back to rear its ugly head at the ironically named &#8220;Values Voters&#8221; convention. </p>
<p>Values? Not any values I need in my life. </p>
<p>BTW &#8211; we also showed this box to a number of black attendees and passers-by to see if we might be off base in seeing racism. Everyone we showed the box to had the same reaction &#8211; drop-jawed shock and unanimous agreement that it was indeed flagrantly racist.</p>
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		<title>By: Iztok</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/#comment-227755</link>
		<dc:creator>Iztok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4559#comment-227755</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If you’re all for movies like Religulous, desecrating wafers, and whatever else, then you should have no problem with some idiot mocking Obama.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

One is some sort of an object, other is a person. Big difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If you’re all for movies like Religulous, desecrating wafers, and whatever else, then you should have no problem with some idiot mocking Obama.</p></blockquote>
<p>One is some sort of an object, other is a person. Big difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Saint Gasoline</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/09/13/obama-waffles/#comment-227754</link>
		<dc:creator>Saint Gasoline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4559#comment-227754</guid>
		<description>I think it is silly to try to make this into a race issue.  As far as I can tell, the product isn&#039;t racist and isn&#039;t intended to be racist.  There seems to be a natural assumption that attacks on women or people of color is automatically racist, but I find that to be a highly misleading and unfair standard.

The boxes shouldn&#039;t have been removed because they were racist, but because they are frickin&#039; stupid and espouse outright lies and ignorance.  That much, at least, is evidently demonstrable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is silly to try to make this into a race issue.  As far as I can tell, the product isn&#8217;t racist and isn&#8217;t intended to be racist.  There seems to be a natural assumption that attacks on women or people of color is automatically racist, but I find that to be a highly misleading and unfair standard.</p>
<p>The boxes shouldn&#8217;t have been removed because they were racist, but because they are frickin&#8217; stupid and espouse outright lies and ignorance.  That much, at least, is evidently demonstrable.</p>
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