They believe what religious believers in general believe: That God exists, loves them, takes care of them, and answers their prayers. They’re just a little more honest and less hypocritical than those of you who claim to believe those things and yet rely on the fruits of naturalism and critical thought when you’re in trouble.

Two life-long loves found themselves looking back on their times together as if it were footprints in the sand. There were two sets that stood out the couple – sometimes they were side-by-side, sometimes they drifted apart, sometimes there was only one set, and even rarer, they disappeared completely for stretches. The couple looked closer, and they could see other sets, too, fainter, less distinct, dozens, hundreds of others who had walked the same path. One of them turned to the other and said, “I see that we are not the first to walk this path, that we have not walked it by ourselves, and that sometimes I have carried you, and sometimes you have carried me. But for the life of me, I can’t figure out the places where neither of us was walking. Where did we go? I certainly can’t leap that distance, and neither can you.”
“Isn’t it obvious?” asked the second. “That was when our community supported the both of us. And here? Where our footprints are deeper? That is where we have supported others in kind.”

Thanks

That’s not an answer. I’m not going to go on a fishing expedition just to do your job of supporting the claims that you made. If you don’t want to write essays here, then fine. That is why Tim Berners-Lee invented hyperlinks. Use them.

The Exterminator: “Whenever people turn to blind faith rather than to critical thought, they’re morons.”

You are stretching the meaning of the word “moron” like taffy.

The Exterminator: “A few days thereafter, Bush referred to our ‘crusade.’ As I recall, his phraseology was not challenged at the time by any politician.”

The key phrase being “at the time.” The whole “crusade” business was dropped pretty quickly.

And you still haven’t offered evidence for your claim about believers thinking that their country “must be right in everything it does.

The Exterminator: “I also urge you to read my post of last December 12, (it’s entitled ‘Christ’s Christmas Gift from the House’)”

I did, and your claims about what it says don’t quite match up to its actual content. In particular, the language of the resolution was far too toothless to support the idea that “The United States has a mission to defend worldwide Christianity against its enemies”

I think your first question has been asked and answered. But I’ll do you the courtesy of answering it again: Whenever people turn to blind faith rather than to critical thought, they’re morons. The more urgent the situation is, the more moronic they are. It’s relatively unimportant if you turn to your deity to help you find your car keys; it’s devastating if you turn to your deity to help you justify invading another country.

As far as politicians and their magic entity, I urge you to listen to our podcast #31, in which we discussed 9/11. I remind you that one of the first acts of Congress after the bombings was to stand on the Capitol steps and sing “God Bless America,” a performance of religio-nationalism that was sickening. A few days thereafter, Bush referred to our “crusade.” As I recall, his phraseology was not challenged at the time by any politician.

I also urge you to read my post of last December 12, (it’s entitled “Christ’s Christmas Gift from the House”), in which I discuss H. Res 847, passed by a whopping 372 to 9, which basically implied: (1) America is a Christian nation; (2) America was founded as a Christian nation; (3) Christians in America are being assailed by secularists and need support; and (4) the United States has a mission to defend worldwide Christianity against its enemies.

Obviously, on a freethinking blog, I’ve been pretty hard on Christians for being irrational. But you might enjoy “flipping” through my pages at random to see posts in which I’ve criticized ridiculous atheists, too. (For instance, see my essay of September 21: “Haven’t I Read This Somewhere Before?”)

I’m done here, but I hope to see you over at my place.

No, you’ve just been insinuating that they are morons. Nice to know you’ve backed off from that, though.

The Exterminator: “As far as all American politicians ramming religion down the public’s throat”

Don’t change the goalposts. You wrote, “Or politicians who believe that some magical entity is looking after their country, which, therefore, must be right in everything it does.” Show me that American politicians have been saying that their country “must be right in everything it does.” The religiosity of American politicians is annoying, but I’ve yet to see it tied into that brand of triumphal jingoism.

In any case, atheists need no “creed,” and should not even quote one — even in a trivial context. When they do that, they make points for “the other side.”

But I’d suggest to you that there’s no point in teaching the virtue of reason to unreasonable people.
Because unreasonable people never become reasonable, they’re just stuck being unreasonable forever and ever. All of those former theists who are now atheists, you don’t really exist.

The poem you quoted — aside from its being total garbage literarily — doesn’t really say anything positive, does it?

So the positive thing about the poem is that it is garbage literarily? Can you prove that? (Either that it is garbage, that it doesn’t say anything positive, or that the only thing positive about it is that it is garbage.)

Oh, yeah, it makes assertions about how majestic and grand and rich the universe is, but where’s the proof?

One cannot prove that the universe is either rich or grand or majestic, one either perceives that it is or one does not.

It’s all blather, preaching to the choir. If one is already an atheist, that piece of drivel is no more profound than the footprint poem. If one is not already an atheist, the “creed” is just a collection of empty words.

Those seeking some simple statement of their personal view of existence may find that creed an adequate way of expressing that view. People like expressing themselves (the existence of the internet proves that).

Maybe more atheists ought to learn how to sling the language in an interesting way instead of resorting to tired truisms.

That much is certain.

As far as all American politicians ramming religion down the public’s throat — have you been watching the various electoral races throughout the country? Perhaps you’re so inured to references to “god” and “faith” and “my beliefs” that you don’t notice when they’re slipped in. But I doubt that you’ll be able to find a contest even for dog catcher in which the candidates don’t tout their religion somehow.

CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT

For those that never know the light,
The darkness is a sullen thing;
And they, the Children of the Night,
Seem lost in Fortune’s winnowing.

But some are strong and some are weak,—
And there’s the story. House and home
Are shut from countless hearts that seek
World-refuge that will never come.

And if there be no other life,
And if there by no other chance
To weigh their sorrow and their strife
Than in the scales of circumstance—

’T were better, ere the sun go down
Upon the first day we embark
In life’s embittered sea to drown
Than sail forever in the dark.

But if there be a soul on earth
So blinded with its own misuse
Of man’s revealed, incessant worth,
Or worn with anguish that it views

No light but for a mortal eye—
No rest but of a mortal sleep—
No God but in a prophet’s lie—
No faith for “honest doubt” to keep—

If there be nothing, good or bad,
But chaos for a soul to trust,—
God counts it for a soul gone mad,
And if God be God, He is just.

And if God be God, He is Love:—
And though the Dawn be still so dim,
It shows us we have played enough
With creeds that make a fiend of Him.

There is one creed, and only one,
That glorifies God’s excellence;—
So cherish, that His will be done,
The common creed of common sense.

It is the crimson, not the gray,
That charms the twilight of all time;
It is the promise of the day
That makes the starry sky sublime;

It is the faith within the fear
That holds us to the life we curse;—
So let us in ourselves revere
The Self which is the Universe!

Let us, the Children of the Night,
Put off the cloak that hides the scar!—
Let us be Children of the Light,
And tell the ages what we are!