Comments on: Can Tithing Hurt You During a Financial Crisis?

By: Hoot

Hoot — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:26:49 +0000

If you don’t trust your Pastor, you might be at the wrong church – you can move. One of our parishoners got $2,000 from the church to stem a foreclosure – it can work. I tithe bacause the church family can use help – like the things people used to do in small town America.

By: Buffy

Buffy — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:36:08 +0000

As if that's not bad enough, people who are already so far in debt they've gone bankrupt are still tithing, thanks to S.4044, which legally allows them to do so while leaving creditors unpaid. I don't understand the people who claim moral superiority then leave their personal debts unpaid while making unnecessary tithes to the church thanks to a legal maneuver like that.

By: Spurs Fan

Spurs Fan — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:27:39 +0000

This tithing thread struck a chord with me today as I was driving to work while listening to NPR (typical liberal, eh?). They were doing their regular fundraising drive and I realized that the comments they were making (“Call us and help us out with a donation, listener-supported radio is important”, etc.) were very similar to the ones that I hear on Christian radio stations in my area. The only difference is that the Christian stations ask people to pray about it and then praise god when they reach their goal, while the NPR folk use the “use it, you should support it” logic and then heavily thank all of the supporters when they reach their goal.

Hmmm…very interesting.

Oh and Mike C, are you not a pastor anymore? Did I mis something during my hiatus awat from the blog?

By: Humanist Mama

Humanist Mama — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:15:31 +0000

I don’t have a lot of confidence in pastors doing the right thing. I listen to a local church’s sermons every once in awhile. There was one series of sermons on tithing and giving money to the church (they’re building an 8 million dollar building).

In the second sermon, the pastor spoke about a woman who had called the previous week. She had told him that she couldn’t afford to put food on the table for her kids and thought it was arrogant of him to assume that everybody can give 10%. His response was to tell her that she should still give because that is when god will bless her. Don’t worry…god will take care of you.

Now if it were me, I think I might offer to help her pay for food for her kids. Silly me. Of course, I understand this is not the way it is at every church. This is a church where the pastor lives in a house that is worth at least double what his average parishioner’s house is worth. Unfortunately, there are many pastors like this who care more about their paycheck than the well being of the church members.

By: cipher

cipher — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:29:59 +0000

Happy New Year to you!

Thanks! I didn’t even see the comments; they didn’t show up in my browser. I thought the story was too new. Even now, you can see the divide – the secular Jews are disgusted, the ultra-Orthodox say they were absolutely right and we should all be ashamed, and the Modern Orthodox, in the middle, whining, “Well, maybe the conditions weren’t all that serious…”. Please. I hear this all the time.

By: Polly

Polly — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:15:15 +0000

@cipher,

Go back to the story over the next week; you’ll start to see comments from ultra-Orthodox people defending the girls’ decision,

I did notice a few defenders. But, they mainly posited that the situation probably wasn’t dire enough. But, what the other 11 friends said about “life-saving extenuation” makes me doubt that rationale.

if they were ultra-Orthodox, they wouldn’t be backpacking in India in the first place.

In a way, that’s even worse. That amounts to shackling yourself to a post your entire life, settling for a diminished existence.

Happy New Year to you!

By: cipher

cipher — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:04:37 +0000

Polly, regarding that story on Ynet – this absolutely drives me crazy. Since WW II, under the influence of the ultra-Orthodox, all of Jewish Orthodoxy has moved significantly to the right, and has assimilated all of their psychoses. Included among them is a one-upsmanship, a more-pious-than-thou attitude. Not only would it have been perfectly acceptable for them to violate the Sabbath in order to save their lives, or even to protect their health, it’s actually mandated by Jewish law – but some black hat rabbi has them so intimidated they don’t know which end is up. And, the thing is – these kids are what we call “Modern Orthodox”; if they were ultra-Orthodox, they wouldn’t be backpacking in India in the first place. There was a time when these kids would have gotten onto the helicopter without a moment of hesitation. This is a small demonstration of the many, many ways in which fundamentalism has screwed up Orthodoxy even more than it already was. Go back to the story over the next week; you’ll start to see comments from ultra-Orthodox people defending the girls’ decision, and condemning furiously anyone who disagrees with them.

Today is Rosh Hoshanah, and this sort of thing is very much on my mind.

By: cipher

cipher — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:04:00 +0000

Putting oneself first is, of course, perfectly sensible for the atheist

Yeah, that isn’t too condescending.

By: crf

crf — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:14:35 +0000

People in dire straights may develop a hatred of money. They think “this money won’t help me much, why shouldn’t I give it away, it’s mine to do with as I please, and I love God, he can put it to better use than I”.

Poor financial situations may cause poor self esteem, which leads to self-destructive behaviour. It’s akin to behaviours like some drug abuse, physical abuse and anorexia: where people destructively manage things within their control, their mind, body or spouse, to somehow compensate for things they cannot control, or have let out of their control, like their financial situation, their relationships, or their self-motivation or self-esteem.

Giving a little money is not likely to hurt. Giving excessively while your personal or family’s situation deteriorates is a problem a priest ought to recognize and more forcefully investigate and act to stop. It is a self-destructive behaviour.

By: Awesomesauce

Awesomesauce — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:21:38 +0000

Many are.

That’s good to hear. I know my old church does, though I’m not sure how many of its congregation would ask for financial assistance from the church.