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	<title>Comments on: Prayer Is No Replacement for Real Medical Care</title>
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	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/10/03/prayer-is-no-replacement-for-real-medical-care/</link>
	<description>by Hemant Mehta</description>
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		<title>By: AnonyMouse</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/10/03/prayer-is-no-replacement-for-real-medical-care/#comment-302544</link>
		<dc:creator>AnonyMouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4957#comment-302544</guid>
		<description>And to think I came from a Followers of Christ church...  The only difference between the ones in Oregon and the ones in other states is that the ones in other states haven&#039;t been called out for their behavior - that, and most of the children they lose around here are babies.  (Talk about a waste of good food.)  I suppose they lose older ones occasionally, but I&#039;ve never heard about it.  Maybe they actually do take their children to doctors?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And to think I came from a Followers of Christ church&#8230;  The only difference between the ones in Oregon and the ones in other states is that the ones in other states haven&#8217;t been called out for their behavior &#8211; that, and most of the children they lose around here are babies.  (Talk about a waste of good food.)  I suppose they lose older ones occasionally, but I&#8217;ve never heard about it.  Maybe they actually do take their children to doctors?</p>
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		<title>By: grammar nazi</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/10/03/prayer-is-no-replacement-for-real-medical-care/#comment-231836</link>
		<dc:creator>grammar nazi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 08:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4957#comment-231836</guid>
		<description>Melissa said &quot;The point of all these questions is, if this child that died had been forced by his school to get checked out by a doctor throughout the years of his illness, wouldn’t it of been spotted?&quot;

I know this is a serious topic, and it sickens me to no end that this child died due to such ignorance... 

But your &quot;wouldn&#039;t it &#039;of&#039; been spotted&quot; really bothers me. I&#039;m sorry, I&#039;m a grammar nazi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melissa said &#8220;The point of all these questions is, if this child that died had been forced by his school to get checked out by a doctor throughout the years of his illness, wouldn’t it of been spotted?&#8221;</p>
<p>I know this is a serious topic, and it sickens me to no end that this child died due to such ignorance&#8230; </p>
<p>But your &#8220;wouldn&#8217;t it &#8216;of&#8217; been spotted&#8221; really bothers me. I&#8217;m sorry, I&#8217;m a grammar nazi.</p>
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		<title>By: Gullwatcher</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/10/03/prayer-is-no-replacement-for-real-medical-care/#comment-231805</link>
		<dc:creator>Gullwatcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 03:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4957#comment-231805</guid>
		<description>@Melissa 
&lt;blockquote&gt;The point of all these questions is, if this child that died had been forced by his school to get checked out by a doctor throughout the years of his illness, wouldn’t it of been spotted?&lt;/blockquote&gt; Maybe, maybe not. Doctors rely a lot on what the patient tells them.  If the kid was told by his parents not to tell the doctor about any problems, then it&#039;s very possible the doctor could have missed it. 

Also, home-schooling is regrettably common among the extremely religious.  These poor kids may never have seen a doctor in their lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Melissa </p>
<blockquote><p>The point of all these questions is, if this child that died had been forced by his school to get checked out by a doctor throughout the years of his illness, wouldn’t it of been spotted?</p></blockquote>
<p> Maybe, maybe not. Doctors rely a lot on what the patient tells them.  If the kid was told by his parents not to tell the doctor about any problems, then it&#8217;s very possible the doctor could have missed it. </p>
<p>Also, home-schooling is regrettably common among the extremely religious.  These poor kids may never have seen a doctor in their lives.</p>
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		<title>By: cipher</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/10/03/prayer-is-no-replacement-for-real-medical-care/#comment-231775</link>
		<dc:creator>cipher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 00:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Let’s hope the parents get locked away for a long time and at least some members of the church come to their senses and get the hell out of there.

This will accomplish nothing. The parents turned themselves in; there&#039;s no question that they see themselves as martyrs for the faith. Yes, throw the book at them, but go farther - remove all minors; take them away from their parents. Let them know they can&#039;t have them back unless they leave that church and sign pledges to provide them with conventional medical care. Then, monitor them for years. The ones who remain - tell them they can&#039;t have any more kids. Take them away if they have them. Hell, sterilize them. I&#039;m tired of playing softball with these lunatics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let’s hope the parents get locked away for a long time and at least some members of the church come to their senses and get the hell out of there.</p>
<p>This will accomplish nothing. The parents turned themselves in; there&#8217;s no question that they see themselves as martyrs for the faith. Yes, throw the book at them, but go farther &#8211; remove all minors; take them away from their parents. Let them know they can&#8217;t have them back unless they leave that church and sign pledges to provide them with conventional medical care. Then, monitor them for years. The ones who remain &#8211; tell them they can&#8217;t have any more kids. Take them away if they have them. Hell, sterilize them. I&#8217;m tired of playing softball with these lunatics.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/10/03/prayer-is-no-replacement-for-real-medical-care/#comment-231772</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 00:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4957#comment-231772</guid>
		<description>hm, I have a question. Has this Child ever had a physical for school? For public schools, physicals are required every few years, and while I am aware that adults can turn down vaccinations for their child due to religious reasons, are they also able to say no to physicals as well? And what about private or religious schools, do they even require a child to have physicals and vaccinations? 

The point of all these questions is, if this child that died had been forced by his school to get checked out by a doctor throughout the years of his illness, wouldn&#039;t it of been spotted?

*shrugs* Don&#039;t shoot me down for any of this, I&#039;m just trying to understand the details of things...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hm, I have a question. Has this Child ever had a physical for school? For public schools, physicals are required every few years, and while I am aware that adults can turn down vaccinations for their child due to religious reasons, are they also able to say no to physicals as well? And what about private or religious schools, do they even require a child to have physicals and vaccinations? </p>
<p>The point of all these questions is, if this child that died had been forced by his school to get checked out by a doctor throughout the years of his illness, wouldn&#8217;t it of been spotted?</p>
<p>*shrugs* Don&#8217;t shoot me down for any of this, I&#8217;m just trying to understand the details of things&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: SarahH</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/10/03/prayer-is-no-replacement-for-real-medical-care/#comment-231762</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4957#comment-231762</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Wow, it’s like we’re living in the 10th century AD all over again. Next thing you know, the Black Death will be making a comeback.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, other preventable diseases are certainly making a comeback.  Measles is &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/south_yorkshire/6929671.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;spreading&lt;/a&gt; to more and more unvaccinated children in the UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Wow, it’s like we’re living in the 10th century AD all over again. Next thing you know, the Black Death will be making a comeback.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, other preventable diseases are certainly making a comeback.  Measles is <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/south_yorkshire/6929671.stm" rel="nofollow">spreading</a> to more and more unvaccinated children in the UK.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Huffman</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/10/03/prayer-is-no-replacement-for-real-medical-care/#comment-231757</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Huffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4957#comment-231757</guid>
		<description>The reason we do not hear about the adults as often is because an adult is free to make whatever choice they want. The point is...they are making their own choice. Their freedom of religion extending to them...for good or bad. When it is a child, there are adults (parents and religious leaders) imposing their rleigion on the child. That is what makes it a news story. Really, I do not care if an adult (stranger...I would advise a friend against it) wants to follow such a self destructive course...it is their choice about themselves. It is not for me to say...any more than it is a religious person&#039;s right to prevent someone from having an abortion. Right up the same alley I think.

There are ample stories of adults who have made these choices, however. Stories of adults who are totally swayed by their faith-healer leaders, and end up dead or seriusly ill because of it. They are sad stories...and were I their friends, I would try to talk them out of it. But, many of us here should be well aware of what it is like to try to talk reason with the faithful. So there are adults who succomb to this...I am betting to a greater degree than children even. 

When the stories are reported about children...it is because the child could not make that choice on their own...which takes it outside of the realm of religious freedom and ends up being a case of one person imposing their religious beliefs on another...and ultimately parental neglect for the child&#039;s well-being, at the very least...outright murder sometimes.

I will also add...even if this teenager made the choice knowingly...he was not an adult but a teenager. Any parent of teenagers will tell you...yes, they can be really mature at times...and at other times, not so much. No...a teen who is allowed to follow this course was deprived of his parents over-ruling the stupid decision in favor of sound parental reasoning. I, for one, would tell my kid that I am suspending their religious freedom until they are 18, since they seem to want to kill themselves with it. I would force the medical attention and get a restraining order against any adult leader who planted such a notion in my child&#039;s head. After he got better, I might even make him wear a shirt saying &quot;I am alive today because I quit attending such-and-such church!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason we do not hear about the adults as often is because an adult is free to make whatever choice they want. The point is&#8230;they are making their own choice. Their freedom of religion extending to them&#8230;for good or bad. When it is a child, there are adults (parents and religious leaders) imposing their rleigion on the child. That is what makes it a news story. Really, I do not care if an adult (stranger&#8230;I would advise a friend against it) wants to follow such a self destructive course&#8230;it is their choice about themselves. It is not for me to say&#8230;any more than it is a religious person&#8217;s right to prevent someone from having an abortion. Right up the same alley I think.</p>
<p>There are ample stories of adults who have made these choices, however. Stories of adults who are totally swayed by their faith-healer leaders, and end up dead or seriusly ill because of it. They are sad stories&#8230;and were I their friends, I would try to talk them out of it. But, many of us here should be well aware of what it is like to try to talk reason with the faithful. So there are adults who succomb to this&#8230;I am betting to a greater degree than children even. </p>
<p>When the stories are reported about children&#8230;it is because the child could not make that choice on their own&#8230;which takes it outside of the realm of religious freedom and ends up being a case of one person imposing their religious beliefs on another&#8230;and ultimately parental neglect for the child&#8217;s well-being, at the very least&#8230;outright murder sometimes.</p>
<p>I will also add&#8230;even if this teenager made the choice knowingly&#8230;he was not an adult but a teenager. Any parent of teenagers will tell you&#8230;yes, they can be really mature at times&#8230;and at other times, not so much. No&#8230;a teen who is allowed to follow this course was deprived of his parents over-ruling the stupid decision in favor of sound parental reasoning. I, for one, would tell my kid that I am suspending their religious freedom until they are 18, since they seem to want to kill themselves with it. I would force the medical attention and get a restraining order against any adult leader who planted such a notion in my child&#8217;s head. After he got better, I might even make him wear a shirt saying &#8220;I am alive today because I quit attending such-and-such church!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: justin jm</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/10/03/prayer-is-no-replacement-for-real-medical-care/#comment-231752</link>
		<dc:creator>justin jm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://friendlyatheist.com/?p=4957#comment-231752</guid>
		<description>How come these stories always involve a child? Why don&#039;t we hear about the parents undergoing this insanity? I suspect the parents have medical care for themselves in at least some of these cases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How come these stories always involve a child? Why don&#8217;t we hear about the parents undergoing this insanity? I suspect the parents have medical care for themselves in at least some of these cases.</p>
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		<title>By: a mother</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/10/03/prayer-is-no-replacement-for-real-medical-care/#comment-231751</link>
		<dc:creator>a mother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It makes me sick to hear things like this.  It gives people who believe in God a really bad name.  I&#039;m a Christian who prays faithfully every time her kids are sick, but I also bring them to the doctor and administer prescribed medication faithfully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It makes me sick to hear things like this.  It gives people who believe in God a really bad name.  I&#8217;m a Christian who prays faithfully every time her kids are sick, but I also bring them to the doctor and administer prescribed medication faithfully.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/10/03/prayer-is-no-replacement-for-real-medical-care/#comment-231748</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I joined CHILD. The stories on the site are incredible. 

Make no mistake; we still live in the Dark Ages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I joined CHILD. The stories on the site are incredible. </p>
<p>Make no mistake; we still live in the Dark Ages.</p>
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