It is a matter of equality. The bible allows slavery and child abuse, but common sense and fairness (not to mention humanity) have brought those acts into light as the atrocities they truly are. If we are to draw up legislation based upon the bible, by all means lets start by banning shellfish and killing people who plant two kinds of food in the same field. It makes just as much sense as denying two consenting adults the right to marry as they see fit.

WOOOOOOOOOO BIDEN!

John 1:14 – Jesus is the Word.

OK, I’m going to try to translate this. Gay = yucky because Jesus = God.

Luckily I have a counter argument 1 Timothy 2:5 – For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Now the appointed speaker for God in the body of Jesus says nothing, absolutely nothing, that condemns homosexuals and quite a few things about not judging others and about loving others as equals. If I were a religious man I’d concentrate on those parts and not the privy parts that monkish ignorance promotes.

As for the Constitution I’d like to add that it was created in part to confer the same rights on a diverse and widespread population. That might have meant the new rural settlers on the frontier, established and prosperous industries of the North east or the sprawling cattle farmers of the south. Clearly the nation has moved on somewhat but it still protects those diverse people. Diversity includes those who think and feel differently from you. It protects your right to disagree as much as it protects the right of a couple to marry if they wish.

Why should this be changed?

Where do I pick up my card and book explaining the agenda?

Fear not. Headquarters will send you the proper materials when the time is right.

I guess I’m going off topic. To get back on topic… If I catch gay how will I know? Do I immediately want to become a scout leader? Where do I pick up my card and book explaining the agenda?

Where exactly did Jesus condemn homosexual behaviour?

Jason:

John 1:14 – Jesus is the Word.

John 1:14 (NRSV):

And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth.

How can’t you possibly see anything about homosexuality in that? I’m used to Christians twisting the Bible to reach whatever conclusions they want, but this is particularly insane.

Where exactly did Jesus condemn homosexual behaviour?

John 1:14 – Jesus is the Word.

That was a most unsatisfactory response in as much as it was a complete non-sequitor.

I don’t fault you for acting in line with your stated principles. You believe god told you that being gay is a “sin” so you feel you have no choice but to act, and vote, accordingly. For that you have my sympathies as I remember what it was like to be so constrained by ancient and irrational taboos.

While your answer above is a non-answer, I have no doubt you could rationalize Paul’s words as that of JC. (It makes no difference to me since I ascribe no authority to either man.)

There are Christians who separate their civic life from their personal beliefs in order that we may have a functioning democracy as opposed to “voting in” a theocracy. I’m sure you’d agree that just because a majority of people believe that drinking alcohol or smoking is a sin doesn’t mean that these things should automatically be criminalized. Blasphemy is a capital crime in Muslim theocracies. Would we make it so here if enough of our population were Christian and willing? Technically, free speech is contrary to god’s law – just ask the young Egyptian who cursed god and was stoned under Moses (IIRC).

And if god allows “sinners” the freedom to govern themselves according to a lax law, then why shouldn’t gay marriage receive the same dispensation?

You could opt to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and to god what is god’s.

And I’d love to know my ‘lifestyle’ differs from that of a straight person. Because I happen to be attracted to women instead of men? Does that really constitute a separate lifestyle? Funny how the people who use the word lifestyle are usually the ones who are against gay rights. I guess it helps to make us seem as different as possible.

If you want to make the Bible the foundation of your beliefs, more power to you, but when those beliefs translate into things which are going to hurt other people, I’m going to have to disagree with you pretty strongly. The denial of marriage rights hurts gay people, and it does mean we are being treated unequally and unfairly no matter how much you seem to be trying to deny that fact.

Where exactly did Jesus condemn homosexual behaviour?

John 1:14 – Jesus is the Word.

The thing is, you can call it what you want, but the fact remains that your moral stand does involve treating me as less than equal.

Actually my “moral stand” involves treating your lifestyle as a sin. Just like it would with any other “sinful” lifestyle.

Too bad this is a right that should be given by our secular government and has (or should have) nothing to do with his religion.

Hey, this is America! Get out there and rock the vote. Get this country on the right track [or left] so we can moveon.org already. All I’m saying is that there is a foundation for my beliefs and it’s not based on any enjoyment of watching people suffer ‘injustices’. I have many gay friends, who know where I stand. It makes them upset for the same reasons you have talked about. All I’m saying is that we should let the people of this great nation determine where to draw the ‘moral line’. If they agree to same-sex marriages then so be it. But life is full of inequalities, and if we’re honest, no matter where we draw the moral line it will ALWAYS effect someone’s lifestyle choice or moral belief.

I appreciate the civil conversation.

Jason